Rubbish And More Rubbish

[MP5]

I remember the England days as a kid on the Isle of Wight on the farm all the veggie scraps went on the garden today in New Zealand they go in the compost bin.

I have just got in and now I'm really amazed at how much trash there really is.

I read somewhere that South Korea had banned the use of styrefoam containers for take away foods! Is that right? Also how do they tax plastic bags?

7/11 CP Group own the bag manufacturer too so sell the bags inhouse there's .5 baht a unit to cover that!

OK! I'm guessing

[alexth]

The main ideea is that they dn't have the brains and the interest to care about the environment, they will, in the moment they will realize that Thailand transformed into a giant trash bin and nobody is coming anymore. That clown that they call a prime minister has started a huge campaign anti smoking, what he doesn't realize is that the gas emission from the cars, the garbage and the stink on the streets it's 10 times more toxic than a cigarette...and speaking about the cars, in Europe they have standards, you wouldn't believe what romanians demand for an imported car and what messy they are for a smokey car, in here...nadah

[Rimmer]

Thailand is no different from any other (Asian) economy that has been propelled from an agro base to a developed economy in 10 years or so. The infrastructure has not caught up with the development yet. Go visit Jakarta, Bangladesh, Colombo or Pakistan if ya wanna see what rubbish is all about. I will never forget my first visit to Sanaa, Yemin, the streets were 2 feet deep in trash, everywhere, at least here they make an effort, I saw a garbage truck once!!

[MP5]

I see they are piling into the sea at the very far end of Jomtien beach I think they are widening the road. Just bulldozed the coconut palm trees into the tide and in the process they have had to clear vacant sections back some. It truly is like a rubbish dump.

No concern, No care and No common sense!

Oh! I checked some people do use rain water. The rain water could be recycled!

Edited February 21, 2006 by MP5

[Wanphen]

Hi,

I think a Pitchfork Campaign is required....

A mulit prong campaign thru the Media, Council, Tourism Authority, Wats, Monks and Entertianment Industry to get involved and educate all tourist, thai's and expats.

Make an issue during the local elections and newspaper and TV.

My be the could get a Reality Program involved like say Surviver Pattaya Thailand where they have to

live in one the area's. Throw in a few Katoy's, Bahtbus driver.

It have to be more entertaining...

Wanphen

[Khun Jean]

I am from the Netherlands and i know it was the same here 30-40 years ago.

Plastic bags for everything. Big heaps of garbage. Poisened rivers. (Germany and french industry)The government started campaigning about just buying a linnen bag and reuse it.

Package industry had to minimise the packaging etc etc. Simple tihins actually, that when done by everyone makes a tremendous difference. I remember that from my youth. We were educated at school.

Throwing garbage on the street when you stand next to a garbage bin, i have never seen that before. Only in Thailand.

My wife and i were talking to a lady and her son. We just did some shopping so we shared some cookies. First open the box and then unwrap the individual cookies. My wife and i threw the wrappers in the garbage bin. It was within an arms length reach, if not then i put it in my pocket and throw it away when i am at home. Meanwhile we saw a western lady walking around on the other side of the street with a small bag with garabage, looking for a place to throw it away. We were standing right next to the only garbage bin within 10 kilometers i think. So she walked all the way from the beach to this garbage bin and disposed of her bag. Meanwhile the woman and her son where just throwing there wrappers on the ground.????

We didn't dare to say anything. It will make them loose face. Source of all problems!

First they will have to suffocate in their own filth, then hopefully something will happen.

Teaching them what we have learned the hard way falls on deaf ears i am afraid. They have to experience it for themselves, just like we westerners did in the age of industrialisation.

It is the same in small villages, the house inside is spotless, but if you look in the back, everybody have there own private garbage belt it seems.

I just educate my children. Have to start with them.

Edited February 21, 2006 by Khun Jean

[zzap]

I agree Khun Jean, in Germany it also took many years for the general public (and the industry) to take this seriously, in Thailand the issue is only just starting to come to public awareness.

[Mobi]

Why don't those health zealots/ crusaders from the health ministry put their minds to cleaning up the environment. They obviously have a lot of clout otherwise they wouldn't have been able to pass such draconian measures on alcohol and smoking.

How about introducing the Irish system where all retail outlets in Ireland must charge the equivalent of about 7 Baht for every plastic bag issued to customers. The amount of plastic bags in circulation plummetted over night.

If they did that in Thailand and charged say,5 Baht, I bet you would see a dramatic improvement in the stuation.

But I bet Toxin has some mates who make plastic bags - so no chance.

[MP5]

Please can those with the right tools post some pictures of your areas of concern?

Ammo is needed here!

[alexth]

I could come up with a 1 million pictures album if you'd ask me...anyways, this is not looking good

[MP5]

I see on the Pattaya Carnival thread posters have highlighted enviromental issues funds could be spent on rather than the carnival.

Why waste money? The Pattaya Music Festival!

"Sorry!"

The Grand International Pattaya Music Fesival now! is a great event that can be a carnival!

Spend some of these entertainment funds Cleaning Up Pattaya

Don't Trash Pattaya!

Yeh! Yeh!

[wilko]

There’s a mindset problem here....where does this litter come from? It comes from US!

Pattaya is a town whose entire economy is based around the western visitor, so we are the primary source of rubbish etc. It's no good just throwing stuff away and complaining when it re-appears in the streets and water, we have to think where it's come from and where it's going. It’s all very well blaming local government but that will do nothing one has to address the source – us…

There are a million and one thing that we can do to reduce the amount of garbage in Pattaya....some mentioned all the plastic bags the retailers hand out - just refuse them when they are unnecessary. When you leave out the garbage, do you know who is collecting it and where it's going? How many keep 2 bins one for recyclables? It is worth it here there are scores of people going round and sifting through our bins every day - help them divide the rubbish so they can sort it more easily. Labour is cheap here and the painstakingly labour intensive job of sorting rubbish into recyclable categories is well affordable. A recycling plant could well make good money here in Pattaya.

Just think about how much water energy etch you use and garbage you create and reduce it – you can’t have garbage without consumers and consequently wasters…

[MP5]

Recycling at the source is great because there are people who will sell on.

Yeh! I agree but I don't think the expat or tourist is the majority of the local population.

The message has to driven home to the children

I can remeber years ago when my sisters were at primary school and all the little reminders they would come out with from buckling the seat belt, doesn't look nice when you smoke or plastics don't go with food scrap-Scraps go in the compost and so on

[Mobi]

Recycling at the source is great because there are people who will sell on.

Yeh! I agree but I don't think the expat or tourist is the majority of the local population.

I also agree on reycling. It's just about got into the conciousness of the Brits after years of publicity/promotion/enforced laws on garbage disposal. If the the Thai authorities started now, it will be years before recycling reached any kind of sensible levels.

Of course this town is based on toursim - but I would wonder how many farangs are actually permanent residents? Most of the toursists stay in hotels or serviced apartments, and recycling waste would not be relevant to their situation.

In another thread I wondered what is the actual farang polulation in Pattaya and speculated that the immigration dept should know, from the 90 day reporting requirements. I would bet it is a very small part of the overall Pattaya population. Count how many farangs you see walking down the road, compared to Thais, and the farangs would include tourists.

[billd766]

I live up country and we get a rubbish collection at least 2 times a week and for this I pay 30 baht a month. They supplied us with one trash bin but I bought 2 more as there are around 12 people living here.

We separate glass, metal, plastic and cardboard/paper etc, and when we go to Bangkok we go to my wifes parents who collect this and sell it on.

We also drink the rainwater but let the rain clean the roof for at least 3 days before we store it.

I agree about the number of plastic bags but we recycle them into trash bags at home before they are put into the bins.

I have managed to teach my immediate family about putting rubbish into the bins but it is difficult to teach the rest and hard work as well.

It would be better if the Education Ministry were to make the subject compulsory at schools which is where the children learn fromand then they can teach their parents.

We always have at least one plastic bag in the car for the car rubbish which is replaced at least once a week.

We are not perfect but we try our best.

[wilko]

Some people seem to have difficulty with my proposal that "we" the expats are the cause of pollution here in Pattaya...

Pattaya was a fishing village until the U.S. dumped their men here for R&R in the Vietnam War and from then on it has developed into a tourist town aimed largely at westerners, others have followed but we are the primary cause.

Whether you are living here or just visiting you are the top of the food chain here and as such the reason for everyone else being here….all are drawn here to run a town who’s existence is based entirely on us.

The pollution then comes from us and it is behoves us to do something about it. I see that some people do recycling at home. Recycling is carried out on a vast scale by the street people in Pattaya but it is messy, it’s up to us to help and make it easier and more efficient.

As far as other aspects are concerned, there is little evidence of solar panels here or any water conservation or waste management all of which can be done by the individual and needs no government help.

So it’s all very well complaining about litter but remember – WE put it there…

[MP5]

As far as other aspects are concerned, there is little evidence of solar panels here or any water conservation or waste management all of which can be done by the individual and needs no government help.

So it’s all very well complaining about litter but remember – WE put it there…

OK point taken!

I am complaining it rests on everybodys shoulders to do something here.

Waste water management is a council issue as is proper garbage collection and so on

I still don't think the Expat is the largest community in Pattaya

How about some solutions.

Solar panels can only be mounted on one side of the roof what's needed is a solar ball same as on The New Inventors(ABC TV) and rain tanks that act as wall.

Also not every one owns the house or condo they live in.

Don't get me wrong I agree with you it's just if it's going to be done DO IT RIGHT!

Look at some Soi's as soon as it rains in fact look at Sukhumvit by Pattaya Klang. These are town planning council problems they need to address.

There is no need to have a shortage of water in Pattaya when all the flooding rainwater could be captured.

Cheers for keeping it alive

[sierra01]

Some people seem to have difficulty with my proposal that "we" the expats are the cause of pollution here in Pattaya...

Pattaya was a fishing village until the U.S. dumped their men here for R&R in the Vietnam War and from then on it has developed into a tourist town aimed largely at westerners, others have followed but we are the primary cause.

Whether you are living here or just visiting you are the top of the food chain here and as such the reason for everyone else being here….all are drawn here to run a town who’s existence is based entirely on us.

The pollution then comes from us and it is behoves us to do something about it. I see that some people do recycling at home. Recycling is carried out on a vast scale by the street people in Pattaya but it is messy, it’s up to us to help and make it easier and more efficient.

As far as other aspects are concerned, there is little evidence of solar panels here or any water conservation or waste management all of which can be done by the individual and needs no government help.

So it’s all very well complaining about litter but remember – WE put it there…

I think you're being a little hard on the expats and foreigners in general there Wilko. The Vietnam war was a great little earner for LOS, and over the years since a great deal of money has poured into many resorts here. Pattaya has had, and is still having, it's full share of that money. Maybe if a little more of it was put into proper recycling then the problem wouldn't be as bad as it is.

The Thai are no less to blame either, take a look round the country, heaps and heaps of flytipped rubbish everywhere, there's a thread about it on the go now somewhere.

It needs a proper, concerted effort by everyone, from the begger in the street to the getting rich quick city bosses...and all those filthy expats and tourists

[wilko]

Solar panels can only be mounted on one side of the roof what's needed is a solar ball same as on The New Inventors(ABC TV) and rain tanks that act as wall.

Waste water here is almost exclusively a house to house concern as most have sceptic tanks.

How much garbage you generate and how you dispose of it is largely up to you.

I know the solar ball but the point is to make use of solar power, this does not even need elaborate solar panels, you can pump water over a dark surface and create really hot water, useable for all sorts of things. Did you see the "BIPU" waste tank system...it was used in Ache after the Tsunami but no mention of Thailand....it is now being used extensively for domestic purposes. Any expat who is building or buying a house here can easily insist on a few basic ecologically sensitive improvements - like not building in concrete!!?!?!!?

I still don't think the Expat is the largest community in Pattaya

It is the westerners that I'm referring to...this includes the expats and all the hotel occupants etc. etc.

It's the choices we make that start the chain of litter and pollution, where we stay, what we buy, how much wrapping, how we dispose of our rubbish around town, how much A/C we use, bath or shower, flushing loos, running taps etc...

[Mobi]

Solar panels can only be mounted on one side of the roof what's needed is a solar ball same as on The New Inventors(ABC TV) and rain tanks that act as wall.

.....It is the westerners that I'm referring to...this includes the expats and all the hotel occupants etc. etc.

It's the choices we make that start the chain of litter and pollution, where we stay, what we buy, how much wrapping, how we dispose of our rubbish around town, how much A/C we use, bath or shower, flushing loos, running taps etc...

Wilko, I'm totally with you on this one, and I agree that we, expats, can take a lead and show an example on waste diposal etc. Afer all, if we act in a responsible way, some of it may rub off on our Thai hosts - wives, children, employees etc.

However I think it is a bit of a pipe dream to seriously expect tourists, who come here for a holiday/ good time to be aware of such matters and to act 'green'. After all, their garbage will just go in bins provided by the hotels, and as most, if not all, tourists will find Thailand very much hotter and more humid than back home, you can hardly expect them to save on airconditioning or shower water etc.

I would still question how many toursists are here at any one time compared to the Thai/expat permanent population. According to the link below, Pattaya had 35,000 hotel rooms available in 2005, compared to an overall population estimated at 500,000. So if every room was occupied, that's only about 7% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattaya

Overall, nothing much is going to change until the government takes up the cudgel and tackles this problem head on. But I'm afraid that its way down the agenda at the present time - Toxin et al won't win many votes by trying to clean up the environment.

[MP5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattaya

Overall, nothing much is going to change until the government takes up the cudgel and tackles this problem head on. But I'm afraid that its way down the agenda at the present time - Toxin et al won't win many votes by trying to clean up the environment.

I think the local government needs to be more responsible and when they have these clean Pattaya days and everyone converges on the beach that gets detailed near every day they target areas and at the same time implement a local education plan

It would also help if these bunnies chasing the beach hawker dished out fines to the locals for trashing the place.

A warning first and made to clean up the mess.

[Noel]

Tsk, tsk, just got hit for two months refuse collection fees by City Hall.

I blame 'alexth' for talking rubbish, as is his perpetual wont...

[wilko]

Wilko, I'm totally with you on this one, and I agree that we, expats, can take a lead and show an example on waste diposal etc. Afer all, if we act in a responsible way, some of it may rub off on our Thai hosts - wives, children, employees etc.

However I think it is a bit of a pipe dream to seriously expect tourists, who come here for a holiday/ good time to be aware of such matters and to act 'green'. After all, their garbage will just go in bins provided by the hotels, and as most, if not all, tourists will find Thailand very much hotter and more humid than back home, you can hardly expect them to save on airconditioning or shower water etc.

I would still question how many toursists are here at any one time compared to the Thai/expat permanent population. According to the link below, Pattaya had 35,000 hotel rooms available in 2005, compared to an overall population estimated at 500,000. So if every room was occupied, that's only about 7% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattaya

Overall, nothing much is going to change until the government takes up the cudgel and tackles this problem head on. But I'm afraid that its way down the agenda at the present time - Toxin et al won't win many votes by trying to clean up the environment.

Basically I'd say you're right. However, it doesn't alter my opinion that the cause of this pollution is the foreign visitor...that is the reason for Pattaya's existence. As for the figures...I'm sure they're near enough but you have to look the energy consumption and waste generated by these rooms (and condos and houses) compared to the rest of the population. As I said before we are the top of the food chain the main consumers.

BTW - I have no a/c in my house and I'm perfectly comfortable. Remember too that many people do not come from a cold climate and enjoy the warmth as well, but…once in a hotel room feel that they aren't getting their money's worth unless they leave the air on cold all the time.

There is in Europe now a very strong movement towards "greener" tourism - just recently I saw a campaign to reduce the amount of flying - especially long haul - that we do. I think its called carbon credit holidaying or something like that. The object is to offset the pollution and fuel consumption by generating something worthwhile at your destination…e.g. local economy, conservation etc. This kind of publicity together with campaigns here can help to reduce the amount of waste, and lets face it Pattaya is sooo wasteful it wouldn't take a lot to make enormous savings even in the short-term.

What we do and ask for before we book or when we get here will affect our Thai hosts/landlords they want our business and have repeatedly shown that they do respond to public and international pressure especially if they might lose face.

[chuckd]

wilko:

We (the expat community) are paying for it with double tier pricing. I would bet most of those baht bus drivers donate to the city coffers the extra 5 baht I am charged in order to help clean up the trash. Do you think this is a possibility?

By the way, your assertion that the expat is responsible for the pollution in Pattaya is patently ridiculous. This thinking is similar to the police thinking that if my car is involved in an accident it must be my fault. If I wasn't here, there would have been no accident...ergo, my fault.

Let's be sensible here. I think it is the fault of the Bush administration since they still allow the US military to participate in Cobra Gold. Get rid of the nasty Yanks and Pattaya will clean itself up.

Anybody agree with my theory?

[Mobi]

....Let's be sensible here. I think it is the fault of the Bush administration since they still allow the US military to participate in Cobra Gold. Get rid of the nasty Yanks and Pattaya will clean itself up.

Anybody agree with my theory?

I think it is the fault of all the golfers. If nobody played golf, all the golf courses could be converted into landfill sites, and downtown Pattaya would be clean and tidy.....

[chuckd]

....Let's be sensible here. I think it is the fault of the Bush administration since they still allow the US military to participate in Cobra Gold. Get rid of the nasty Yanks and Pattaya will clean itself up.

Anybody agree with my theory?

I think it is the fault of all the golfers. If nobody played golf, all the golf courses could be converted into landfill sites, and downtown Pattaya would be clean and tidy.....

The problem with the theory about golfers is that so many Thais play golf. This could, therefore, lay some blame at the feet of some of the Thai people for their own pollution problems.

I suggest we still blame the Bush Administration. That seems to be the safest approach. After all, isn't the Bush Administration solely responsible for shooting down the Kyoto Protocol as well?

[wilko]

wilko:

We (the expat community) are paying for it with double tier pricing. I would bet most of those baht bus drivers donate to the city coffers the extra 5 baht I am charged in order to help clean up the trash. Do you think this is a possibility?

By the way, your assertion that the expat is responsible for the pollution in Pattaya is patently ridiculous. This thinking is similar to the police thinking that if my car is involved in an accident it must be my fault. If I wasn't here, there would have been no accident...ergo, my fault.

Let's be sensible here. I think it is the fault of the Bush administration since they still allow the US military to participate in Cobra Gold. Get rid of the nasty Yanks and Pattaya will clean itself up.

Anybody agree with my theory?

Unfortunately pollution is not an accident and the same would apply to any car crash you had if we drove with the same lack of forsight as we have with our garbage... P.S.- why do you think Pattaya is here then?

Edited February 28, 2006 by wilko

[chuckd]

wilko:

We (the expat community) are paying for it with double tier pricing. I would bet most of those baht bus drivers donate to the city coffers the extra 5 baht I am charged in order to help clean up the trash. Do you think this is a possibility?

By the way, your assertion that the expat is responsible for the pollution in Pattaya is patently ridiculous. This thinking is similar to the police thinking that if my car is involved in an accident it must be my fault. If I wasn't here, there would have been no accident...ergo, my fault.

Let's be sensible here. I think it is the fault of the Bush administration since they still allow the US military to participate in Cobra Gold. Get rid of the nasty Yanks and Pattaya will clean itself up.

Anybody agree with my theory?

Unfortunately pollution is not an accident and the same would apply to any car crash you had if we drove with the same lack of forsight as we have with our garbage... P.S.- why do you think Pattaya is here then?

Why do I think Pattaya is here??? Me???

Perhaps an act of God? Go out to the Million Years Stone Park and Crocodile Farm and ask them.

I still think it's the Bush Administration.

[MP5]

OK!

Lets stay on track!

The enviroment!

Rubbish and more rubbish

The real trash!

Let's not end up trashing others!

Cheers

The rag and bone man

[wilko]

Why do I think Pattaya is here??? Me???

Perhaps an act of God? Go out to the Million Years Stone Park and Crocodile Farm and ask them.

I still think it's the Bush Administration.

It's thinking like that that got Bush re-elected

Edited March 1, 2006 by wilko