Yingluck: Piece-By-Piece Charter Change If Referendum Fails

[webfact]

Piece-by-piece charter change if referendum fails: PM

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra made it clear yesterday that the Pheu Thai-led government would push for overhauling the Constitution if the proposal for rewriting the whole charter fails to draw a 50-per-cent turnout in a public referendum.

In fact, if we fail to reach the mid-way mark [for turnout], the government will turn back to amend the Constitution article by article," she said.

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung has warned that less than the required half of all eligible voters might show up for the plebiscite.

Yingluck said that would not mean the government's effort was doomed, as holding a referendum was not her administration's idea but the suggestion of the Constitution Court.

According to the Constitution, a referendum can be passed if half of all eligible voters turn out to cast ballots, and a majority of that turnout then votes in favour.

In July, the court ruled in a case against proponents of constitutional amendment that it was against the charter to write a new constitution, as the current one was endorsed by the majority of voters in a public referendum.

The court also said that the 2007 Constitution in fact allows amendment by article.

Yingluck said that due to the court order, the government could not proceed with charter amendment.

The third reading of the charter change bill in Parliament was suspended following the court ruling.

Some Pheu Thai politicians want the government to go ahead with passing the bill, while others say the court ruling regarding the referendum must be followed first.

This was just a matter of different viewpoints within the ruling party rather than a dispute, she said.

Critics and opposition politicians have condemned the move to write an entirely new constitution, saying it was aimed at whitewashing former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra so that he could return home a free man.

Yingluck's brother, who fled overseas to escape imprisonment at home from a corruption case brought against him after the coup of 2006, is believed to be pulling the strings behind the ruling party.

However, Yingluck dismissed any innuendoes of favouritism.

"The constitutional amendment is intended for the people. We want to have a people's charter - one that is in line with democracy," she said.

The government's working group on constitutional amendment would tell the public what they would get from drafting a new version, she said.

Democrat Party spokesman Chavanont Intarakomalyasut said the government's real intention was to scrap Article 309 of the Constitution to void the legal impacts of the post-coup Interim Constitution of 2006, under which the Assets Examination Committee investigated Thaksin and his Cabinet.

The government should state if it would retain that article and it should publicly outline how a completely new charter would be better for the public than the current one, the spokeman said.

Senator Prasarn Marukapitak said he believes Thaksin was behind the move to draft a new constitution, but the government was likely to lose in the referendum.

Kanin Boonsuwan, an academic and former constitution drafter, called on all sides to follow the Constitution.

"If they try to get out of the Constitution's framework, the dispute will get bigger and it will be more difficult to find a solution," he said.

Pheu Thai MP Weng Tojirakarn, who is also a red-shirt leader, said the government should move for the third reading on charter changes.

Weng said writing a brand new constitution was out of the picture, as it would not achieve the

minimum support required in the referendum.

Election Commission member Sodsri Satayathum, who is in charge of political party affairs and referendums, said it would be against the law for the government or state agencies to provide voters with free transportation to the referendum polling stations.

Some government politicians had floated the idea in the hope that at least half of the estimated 48 million eligible voters would cast a ballot in the plebiscite.

-- The Nation 2012-12-26

[OzMick]

Piece by piece charter change will be like that silly game the tourists play with bar girls, picking which block can be teased out before the tower of corruption comes crashing down around her ears.

[Skywalker69]

"The constitutional amendment is intended for the people. We want to have a people's charter

Read,"The constitutional amendment is intended for the people Thaksin. We want to have a people´s Thaksin charter

[LuckyLew]

So why bother with the referendum then?

If you are going to do it anyway then why bother asking the people

What a useless gov't ... elected by the people ... now they state

they will not listen to the people

[whybother]

its stupid because instead of changing the constitution and taking it to a referendum thailand has a referendum on nothing specific in order to change the constitution.

the opps can claim any outlandish thing they want in the referendum in order to defeat it

then it goes back to the government to change article by artilcle taking the thai public referendum out of the picture

stupid indeed

Actually, the constitution has clauses on how it can be amended. Doing a wholesale re-write is not covered, so a referendum is needed to change the constitution to allow a wholesale rewrite.

Don't you follow the news?

[webfact]

PM mulls alternative if referendum for charter change fails

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, Dec 26 – The government will seek to change certain sections of the constitution if a referendum on charter amendment fails to acquire sufficient votes from the people, according to Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

She said the government will not take it as a failure if supporting votes in the referendum is less than half as legally required.

“We merely follow the court’s instruction on two options – holding a referendum to seek public consent or amending some sections of the constitution,” she said.

She ruled out a report of conflicts among Pheu Thai Party members concerning the referendum, saying their opinions are different but they don’t have any conflicts.

“The ad hoc committee on referendum must clarify [to the public] and gather feedback from every sector. We need constructive views to find the best solution for the country,” said the premier.

In conducting a referendum, the government needs at least 24 million votes to advocate the constitution amendment.

Ms Yingluck said it does not matter if the government gets sufficient votes in favour of the move since the government’s major task is to earn public support in the process of public participation.

Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said the party’s meeting on Thursday, which was chaired by the prime minister, did not reach a conclusion on the next move concerning the charter change.

The ad hoc committee on referendum was assigned by the meeting to review the issue and submit it to the Pheu Thai conference on Jan 6-7, he said, adding that a concrete direction must be clearly outlined by the middle of next month.

Jurin Laksanavisit, an executive of the opposition Democrat Party, said the government should call off the constitution amendment which will lead to conflicts in Thai society.

If the government insists on carrying on the move, the opposition will oppose within and out of the parliamentary system, he said. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-12-26

[righteous]

One can only speculate about Yingluck's assertion to overhaul the constitution, as being of personal conviction, or forced upon her by her constituancy, which also just happens to be the electoral majority......She made a very astute observation about this referendum being 'birthed' by the Constitution Court. This Court claiming legitimacy of the existing Constitution, disregarding its "Coup source", is what leads to such comments....All this does, is simply characterize the CC for its' judicial orientation.......which have in the past led to Double-standards and judicial coup complaints...........Opposition types and their accolytes continue to beat the "Thaksin return motive" as a way of hiding their own...that being retention of the coup initiatives of which they were a part (198)

[whybother]

One can only speculate about Yingluck's assertion to overhaul the constitution, as being of personal conviction, or forced upon her by her constituancy, which also just happens to be the electoral majority......She made a very astute observation about this referendum being 'birthed' by the Constitution Court. This Court claiming legitimacy of the existing Constitution, disregarding its "Coup source", is what leads to such comments....All this does, is simply characterize the CC for its' judicial orientation.......which have in the past led to Double-standards and judicial coup complaints...........Opposition types and their accolytes continue to beat the "Thaksin return motive" as a way of hiding their own...that being retention of the coup initiatives of which they were a part (198)

From page 198 of the Red Shirt Propaganda manual.

One of the coup generals is now part of the government coalition, so obviously there is no intention to punish anyone. Therefore, why is there a need to remove article 309?

One reason only.

[Moruya]

If the people vote for no change, then screw the people, we will change it.

How undemocratic can you get!

[saltandpepper]

Cancelled by self

Your very best post so far!!

[seajae]

Cancelled by self

Now thats probably the best post you have made in a while, as they say, engage brain before putting mouth into gear but its better late then never

[Ricardo]

Piece by piece charter change will be like that silly game the tourists play with bar girls, picking which block can be teased out before the tower of corruption comes crashing down around her ears.

But it would permit the voters to support changes, where they were persuaded they would be an improvement, while still blocking the whitewashed-return from self-exile of a glorious former-leader.

For example wouldn't it be fine if the 5-year-ban, for executive-members of a party which indulged in deliberate vote-rigging, got a longer ban instead ?

Can Dr-T get a majority, in favour of absolving him of all crimes & charges, without linking it to sufficient 'pre-election promises', is the question.

[seajae]

One can only speculate about Yingluck's assertion to overhaul the constitution, as being of personal conviction, or forced upon her by her constituancy, which also just happens to be the electoral majority......She made a very astute observation about this referendum being 'birthed' by the Constitution Court. This Court claiming legitimacy of the existing Constitution, disregarding its "Coup source", is what leads to such comments....All this does, is simply characterize the CC for its' judicial orientation.......which have in the past led to Double-standards and judicial coup complaints...........Opposition types and their accolytes continue to beat the "Thaksin return motive" as a way of hiding their own...that being retention of the coup initiatives of which they were a part (198)

then you had to go and ruin the great work you had done previously with this red shirt propaganda crap, really starting to think you are actually a red shirt propaganda man/woman put in here to try to counter all the bullsh*t your friends in high places do but it doesnt work, we are not as stupid as those you pay to vote for you.

[smedly]

Why not just cut to the chase and have a referendum on Thaksin being pardoned and all his pending cases dropped Yes or No - and put an end to this nonesense once and for all

Lets face it, everyone knows that is exactly what this is all about

also the current constitution seems to be pretty good as it has this government jumping through hoops trying to change it, if anything it needs a few things added to shore up some government agencies and give them the teeth to do their job, I would also remove the immunity clause for MP's - everyone should answer to the law no matter and modify the defamation act or remove it altogether as all it does is create silly lawsuits and clogs up the courts

Edited December 26, 2012 by smedly

[righteous]

Cancelled by self

Your very best post so far!!

LOL

Be nice

[OzMick]

Why not just cut to the chase and have a referendum on Thaksin being pardoned and all his pending cases dropped Yes or No - and put an end to this nonesense once and for all

Lets face it, everyone knows that is exactly what this is all about

also the current constitution seems to be pretty good as it has this government jumping through hoops trying to change it, if anything it needs a few things added to shore up some government agencies and give them the teeth to do their job, I would also remove the immunity clause for MP's - everyone should answer to the law no matter and modify the defamation act or remove it altogether as all it does is create silly lawsuits and clogs up the courts

So if the disaster caused by the Red Bull idiot instead involved a pop singer or a soapie star, then they should be absolved due to popularity? An Oscar should come with a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card attached?

I don't care if a majority of the population think the sun shines out of his anus, it has nothing do with being prosecuted for the crimes he has committed.

[saltandpepper]

Cancelled by self

Your very best post so far!!

LOL

Be nice

Always!

I might disagree with all your posts, but still, my last remark was meant to tease you on a funny note. I should have put a smiley maybe!

Cheers

[bigbamboo]

Why not just cut to the chase and have a referendum on Thaksin being pardoned and all his pending cases dropped Yes or No - and put an end to this nonesense once and for all

Lets face it, everyone knows that is exactly what this is all about

also the current constitution seems to be pretty good as it has this government jumping through hoops trying to change it, if anything it needs a few things added to shore up some government agencies and give them the teeth to do their job, I would also remove the immunity clause for MP's - everyone should answer to the law no matter and modify the defamation act or remove it altogether as all it does is create silly lawsuits and clogs up the courts

A recent poll showed Yingluck to be three times as popular as Big Brother. There does seem to be a mood change even here in the north that suggests more and more people want stability and there is a better chance of that if Yingluck is PM and Thaksin stays in Dubai.... at least for the time being.

[MrSlatersParrot]

Why not just cut to the chase and have a referendum on Thaksin being pardoned and all his pending cases dropped Yes or No - and put an end to this nonesense once and for all

Lets face it, everyone knows that is exactly what this is all about

also the current constitution seems to be pretty good as it has this government jumping through hoops trying to change it, if anything it needs a few things added to shore up some government agencies and give them the teeth to do their job, I would also remove the immunity clause for MP's - everyone should answer to the law no matter and modify the defamation act or remove it altogether as all it does is create silly lawsuits and clogs up the courts

So if the disaster caused by the Red Bull idiot instead involved a pop singer or a soapie star, then they should be absolved due to popularity? An Oscar should come with a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card attached?

I don't care if a majority of the population think the sun shines out of his anus, it has nothing do with being prosecuted for the crimes he has committed.

I think the yellow bull got off already.

[MrSlatersParrot]

One can only speculate about Yingluck's assertion to overhaul the constitution, as being of personal conviction, or forced upon her by her constituancy, which also just happens to be the electoral majority......She made a very astute observation about this referendum being 'birthed' by the Constitution Court. This Court claiming legitimacy of the existing Constitution, disregarding its "Coup source", is what leads to such comments....All this does, is simply characterize the CC for its' judicial orientation.......which have in the past led to Double-standards and judicial coup complaints...........Opposition types and their accolytes continue to beat the "Thaksin return motive" as a way of hiding their own...that being retention of the coup initiatives of which they were a part (198)

So there's mud in your eye for suthep and his friends.

A vote no,boycott campaign succeeds and her government will amend, strengthen the charter line by line.

Suthep,that man of the people, darkly threatens her with exile should she follow her brothers perceived council.

I guess for suthep he has no fear of a similar fate as he believes he is "untouchable."

I think events here mirror and follow to a degree what's happening in Egypt.

The robber Barrons here only fear is real change.

[Thait Spot]

One can only speculate about Yingluck's assertion to overhaul the constitution, as being of personal conviction, or forced upon her by her constituancy, which also just happens to be the electoral majority......She made a very astute observation about this referendum being 'birthed' by the Constitution Court. This Court claiming legitimacy of the existing Constitution, disregarding its "Coup source", is what leads to such comments....All this does, is simply characterize the CC for its' judicial orientation.......which have in the past led to Double-standards and judicial coup complaints...........Opposition types and their accolytes continue to beat the "Thaksin return motive" as a way of hiding their own...that being retention of the coup initiatives of which they were a part (198)

So there's mud in your eye for suthep and his friends.

A vote no,boycott campaign succeeds and her government will amend, strengthen the charter line by line.

Suthep,that man of the people, darkly threatens her with exile should she follow her brothers perceived council.

I guess for suthep he has no fear of a similar fate as he believes he is "untouchable."

I think events here mirror and follow to a degree what's happening in Egypt.

The robber Barrons here only fear is real change.

You are obviously not familiar with the meaning of the terms you use.

Please consult The Gospel of John 9:6-7

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Thait Spot]

One can only speculate about Yingluck's assertion to overhaul the constitution, as being of personal conviction, or forced upon her by her constituancy, which also just happens to be the electoral majority......She made a very astute observation about this referendum being 'birthed' by the Constitution Court. This Court claiming legitimacy of the existing Constitution, disregarding its "Coup source", is what leads to such comments....All this does, is simply characterize the CC for its' judicial orientation.......which have in the past led to Double-standards and judicial coup complaints...........Opposition types and their accolytes continue to beat the "Thaksin return motive" as a way of hiding their own...that being retention of the coup initiatives of which they were a part (198)

Yingluck's personal conviction? Is that the lying in court one that awaits her?

I was more of the opinion that it was her brother's convictions that were driving this but obviously she, too, will benefit.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[jbrain]

So in short :

If we don't get approval from the Thai people, we will ignore and do it anyway. How they dare it still call a people's charter.

[MrSlatersParrot]

So in short :

If we don't get approval from the Thai people, we will ignore and do it anyway. How they dare it still call a people's charter.

Well just announced on bbc world 64% voted in Egypt for charter change.

Expect similar here IMO.

No wonder suthep's jumping up and down

[whybother]

So in short :

If we don't get approval from the Thai people, we will ignore and do it anyway. How they dare it still call a people's charter.

Well just announced on bbc world 64% voted in Egypt for charter change.

Expect similar here IMO.

No wonder suthep's jumping up and down

Then why are PTP so worried about having a referendum?

[Thait Spot]

So in short :

If we don't get approval from the Thai people, we will ignore and do it anyway. How they dare it still call a people's charter.

Well just announced on bbc world 64% voted in Egypt for charter change.

Expect similar here IMO.

No wonder suthep's jumping up and down

If the PTP changes the Constitution in the manner that everybody expects it to be changed, Suthep will be freed of the thousands of ridiculous convictions hanging over his head

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[khunken]

So in short :

If we don't get approval from the Thai people, we will ignore and do it anyway. How they dare it still call a people's charter.

Well just announced on bbc world 64% voted in Egypt for charter change.

Expect similar here IMO.

No wonder suthep's jumping up and down

If the PTP changes the Constitution in the manner that everybody expects it to be changed, Suthep will be freed of the thousands of ridiculous convictions hanging over his head

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

I'm afraid SlatersParrot doesn't know what he's writing about, as usual. Just a Suthep phobia.

The Egyptians have'nt voted for charter change - they voted for a new constitution which rather excludes any opposition or minority rights. Quite similar, I suppose, to what Thaksin wants.

But PTP are shitting in their pants because the feel they can't get a 50% vote or a majority of those who vote. Just selecting some bits of democracy & discarding the embarrasing bits.

[Nickymaster]

So they are going to spend 2 BILLION for this referendum and if it fails to achieve PTs goals they will still amend the constitution.

What a crazy country this is becoming. Even the Thaksin supporters on this forum seem to be silenced by what this government is doing.

In case you haven't noticed, this Yingluck government is destroying this country by stealing it empty and spending it empty. So if everything fails the Shins will be even richer and not in Thailand anymore, and the country will be bankrupt.

Can't you see what they are doing?

Good luck to the Thai people who voted for them. Sorry for the rest.

[Nickymaster]

So in short :

If we don't get approval from the Thai people, we will ignore and do it anyway. How they dare it still call a people's charter.

Well just announced on bbc world 64% voted in Egypt for charter change.

Expect similar here IMO.

No wonder suthep's jumping up and down

In Egypt, 63.8 per cent of those who cast ballots voted for the new constitution, while 36.2 per cent voted against it.

Turnout was 32.9% of Egypt's total of 52 million voters.

You are correct MrSlatersParrot, I also expect similar here. But I don't see why it would make Suthep jump up and down. Please explain.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Nickymaster

[GentlemanJim]

However, Yingluck dismissed any innuendoes of favouritism.

"The constitutional amendment is intended for the people. We want to have a people's charter - one that is in line with democracy," she said.

So if less than 50% of people turn out in favour of the CA then what is the democratic statement of the people? It would seem in that scenario that more than 50% say no to CA, so how can further CA be 'intended for the people'? Which people? Thaksin, Jatuporn and a few others perhaps?

Amazing Thailand.