Asia's Endangered Species: The Expat

[SteeleJoe]

More Western firms are filling their executive positions with locals. Foreigners with no Asian experience need not apply.

Forget expats. Western companies doing business in Asia are now looking to locals to fill the most important jobs in the region.

Behind the switch, experts say, are several factors, including a leveled playing field in which Western companies must approach newly empowered Asian companies and consumers as equals and clients—not just manufacturing partners.

Companies now want executives who can secure deals with local businesses and governments without the aid of a translator, and who understand that sitting through a three-hour dinner banquet is often a key part of the negotiating process in Asia, experts say...

"It's a strategic necessity to be integrated in the culture. Otherwise, the time to learn all of it takes forever," said Arie Y. Lewin, a professor of strategy and international business at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business. He adds that locals may better navigate a business culture where copycats and competitors often play by different rules....

Foreigners with no Asia experience, on the other hand, need not apply, recruiters said. Spencer Stuart's Mr. Johnston said he occasionally receives inquiries from Western middle managers, proclaiming that they are finally ready to make a career move to the region. He advises them that "there is nothing about their experience that is interesting or relevant to Asia."

http://globalconnections.hsbc.com/global/en/articles/asias-endangered-species-the-expat?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=content&utm_campaign=geotest#.UN1h3-qIJdg.mailto

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Edited December 28, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[HardenedSoul]

Maybe somewhere in places we don't know of, there's a movement similar to that in many Western nations where locals get together to bitch about "foreigners who can't even speak the language taking our jobs".

[GuestHouse]

Not a surprise to anyone working for an MNC in Thailand. I've still got my first assignment contract - top of the list of duties is skills transfer and training of local staff.

Its a pleasure to see Thai staff who entered the company as fresh faced graduates develop their careers to senior management/technical roles.

Expats able and willing to help this process along will always be in demand, discarding those stuck with the mindset that Thais are incapable of effective management / technical roles might be regarded as natural wastage.

Its all good news, competant and confident Thai organizations moving out of the Thai market to compete internationally - Opportunites are there for those with the right qualifications, right skills and right mindset.

[SteeleJoe]

To both previous posts: Yes, indeed. (Good posts).

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[JurgenG]

One thing to point out is more and more "locals" have a foreign degree and therefore an understanding of both local and western culture, something that foreigners who have never lived or worked in Asia obviously lack. A lot of "local" staff are actually bananas.

[smokie36]

Not a surprise to anyone working for an MNC in Thailand. I've still got my first assignment contract - top of the list of duties is skills transfer and training of local staff.

Its a pleasure to see Thai staff who entered the company as fresh faced graduates develop their careers to senior management/technical roles.

Expats able and willing to help this process along will always be in demand, discarding those stuck with the mindset that Thais are incapable of effective management / technical roles might be regarded as natural wastage.

Its all good news, competant and confident Thai organizations moving out of the Thai market to compete internationally - Opportunites are there for those with the right qualifications, right skills and right mindset.

If only some other dinosaurs shared your open minded and positive approach!

[SteeleJoe]

Not a surprise to anyone working for an MNC in Thailand. I've still got my first assignment contract - top of the list of duties is skills transfer and training of local staff.

Its a pleasure to see Thai staff who entered the company as fresh faced graduates develop their careers to senior management/technical roles.

Expats able and willing to help this process along will always be in demand, discarding those stuck with the mindset that Thais are incapable of effective management / technical roles might be regarded as natural wastage.

Its all good news, competant and confident Thai organizations moving out of the Thai market to compete internationally - Opportunites are there for those with the right qualifications, right skills and right mindset.

If only some other dinosaurs shared your open minded and positive approach!

I share your sentiments but - as you will agree - ultimately those who can't adapt, like other extinct species, will cease to exist, regardless.

Really I think articles like this, rather than educating entrenched expats willfully oblivious to what is spoken of, would be of more potential use to those who have yet come to Asia but believe things to be the way were back in the day but they no longer are - and have dreams about the ease of finding the lifestyle here that was more attainable decades ago. I remember it well but those days are, to some extent at least, arguably gone.

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[Hedghog]

Great idea.

Also will save a lot of money,for said companies.

Not having to pay the exorbitant farang salaries.

[Rsquared]

Interesting thread SteeleJoe, and good comments.

I can't contribute much, but to my way of thinking, it is only a logical step in the right direction. The only similar experience that I can share is when I was sailing around the place in Merchant ships, every port we came to we had to engage a pilot who had local knowledge and familiarisation with the changing tides, currents and other factors that come into berthing a ship.

It is just a case of common sense to use people with skills that are accepted within the local culture.

Cheers.

[SteeleJoe]

The only similar experience that I can share is when I was sailing around the place in Merchant ships, every port we came to we had to engage a pilot who had local knowledge and familiarisation with the changing tides, currents and other factors that come into berthing a ship.

It is just a case of common sense to use people with skills that are accepted within the local culture.

Cheers.

It is just common sense - especially apparent when presented with your personal experience: which works as a very literary sort of metaphor.

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[DLock]

One thing to point out is more and more "locals" have a foreign degree and therefore an understanding of both local and western culture, something that foreigners who have never lived or worked in Asia obviously lack. A lot of "local" staff are actually bananas.

This is a good point.

We do have several ex-pats in key roles because they do have skills and knowledge that we cant find here.

But we also have many Thai's in senior management positions and will always look for Thai's over foreigners. But we always prefer Western educated Thai's over local Thai's and in my mind, that's the best of both worlds.

The only issue is that senior Thai management do know their worth and are not necessarily cheaper than single ex-pats.

[SteeleJoe]

One thing to point out is more and more "locals" have a foreign degree and therefore an understanding of both local and western culture, something that foreigners who have never lived or worked in Asia obviously lack. A lot of "local" staff are actually bananas.

Surely you are correct as far as it goes but...

...if the understanding of western culture -- or qualities gained by having lived in one -- are of significant import (which of course they sometimes or often won't be) merely attaining a degree abroad doesn't necessarily suffice. I've known and do know LOTS of Thais who went abroad for their degree(s) who returned with a fairly noticeable but rather superficial "international" veneer that rubs off easily -- and not always by choice or when one would want it to.

And I've known some very senior Thai executives who said the same.

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Still thinking about the whole (sort of creepy) banana metaphor: and I have to re-emphasize that it takes a lot more than a degree to change one's inner values and mentality to "white" (western) leaving only the exterior as "yellow" (Asian).

Edited December 28, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[joorakee]

Well, maybe for senior/top executives with no Asia-related educational/professional background finding employment in Asia will be more difficult nowadays than it was "decades ago", but non-Asians ready to work for, let's say, 50-80k THB/month (in case of the Land of Smiles) or 300k JPY/month (in case of the Land of the Rising Sun) won't have much to worry about. Not all farangs/gaijins/laowais need "salaries of $750,000 to $1 million" (see the article in the attached link), some have other priorities and prefer performing a non-tiring job from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. to working their nuts off under huge stress.

My advice for all would be to learn the language of the country you are thinking of moving to and read as much as possible about its culture.

[loong]

Duke University's Fuqua School of Business.

I had to read that twice, but maybe they are saying Fuqu to the highly paid foreigners

[theblether]

In as much as there are some dinosaurs that cannot believe that Thais are capable of running successful international companies, it would be a mistake for the Thais to believe they don't need any more foreign management input.

Taking the best from everywhere is good practise, as soon as you think you have it made, your beat.

There are still structural problems within the management structures of many Asian countries, quality control can be patchy, going on diabolical. Anyone involved in importing goods from Asia could tell you bizarre and comical stories about the state some goods arrive in.

On top of that Human Resources are effectively ignored, and health and safety is virtually overlooked. I would say that's a greater problem in China than in Thailand to be fair, but Thailand doesn't demonstrate best practise.

If Asia thinks it kniws it all, it will get a rude shock.

[SteeleJoe]

In as much as there are some dinosaurs that cannot believe that Thais are capable of running successful international companies, it would be a mistake for the Thais to believe they don't need any more foreign management input.

Taking the best from everywhere is good practise, as soon as you think you have it made, your beat.

There are still structural problems within the management structures of many Asian countries, quality control can be patchy, going on diabolical. Anyone involved in importing goods from Asia could tell you bizarre and comical stories about the state some goods arrive in.

On top of that Human Resources are effectively ignored, and health and safety is virtually overlooked. I would say that's a greater problem in China than in Thailand to be fair, but Thailand doesn't demonstrate best practise.

If Asia thinks it kniws it all, it will get a rude shock.

Totally agree. As far as I'm concerned, this is about a trend and an ongoing change but not an entirely complete transition by any means. Indeed, I don't know that it will ever be a total transition.

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[SteeleJoe]

Well, maybe for senior/top executives with no Asia-related educational/professional background finding employment in Asia will be more difficult nowadays than it was "decades ago", but non-Asians ready to work for, let's say, 50-80k THB/month (in case of the Land of Smiles) or 300k JPY/month (in case of the Land of the Rising Sun) won't have much to worry about. Not all farangs/gaijins/laowais need "salaries of $750,000 to $1 million" (see the article in the attached link), some have other priorities and prefer performing a non-tiring job from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. to working their nuts off under huge stress.

My advice for all would be to learn the language of the country you are thinking of moving to and read as much as possible about its culture.

Sure, but that's a whole different breed.

To me personally, even though anyone living and working here is by definition an expatriate, an "Expat" in Asia was a guy who made very big money and lived at a level that only fairly upper class Thais did - but who often foreswore any interest in learning about Thai culture or language. THOSE are the guys who one might find it increasingly harder to become these days and the coming future.

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EDIT: Obviously (I hope) when I said, "anyone living and working here is by definition an expatriate" I meant anyone not a Thai citizen.

Edited December 28, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[Tolley]

Global labour market out there and if you have the right skills regardless of nationality there is work and high salaries to be had.

I have worked in Europe, Middle East, South East Aisa, Aust and NZ in the last 15 years and have worked with many different nationaliities in these countries.

The big miners and big oil companies where most of my experience is have projects all over the world with multinational staff.

[GuestHouse]

To me personally, even though anyone living and working here is by definition an expatriate, an "Expat" in Asia was a guy who made very big money and lived at a level that only fairly upper class Thais did - but who often foreswore any interest in learning about Thai culture or language. THOSE are the guys who one might find it increasingly harder to become these days and the coming future.

It is an oft expressed view that expatriats earning good salaries are somehow excluded from learning the language or anything about the culture.

I know a great many expats earning extremely good salaries, non fit this image of guys who haven't learned the language or anything about the culture.

[rgs2001uk]

Take a walk into Jools bar in Suk soi 4.

All the "this place would fall apart if we werent here" types have long since departed these shores.

Replaced by, Thais who are better educated and qualified, plus can speak two languages and are versed in local etiquette.

I remember hearing the old, "I dont need this job they can stick it up their effin ass", its quite embarrassing to watch a grown man cry and grovel for any position once he is told, "theres the runway, have a nice flight home".

[SteeleJoe]

To me personally, even though anyone living and working here is by definition an expatriate, an "Expat" in Asia was a guy who made very big money and lived at a level that only fairly upper class Thais did - but who often foreswore any interest in learning about Thai culture or language. THOSE are the guys who one might find it increasingly harder to become these days and the coming future.

It is an oft expressed view that expatriats earning good salaries are somehow excluded from learning the language or anything about the culture.

I know a great many expats earning extremely good salaries, non fit this image of guys who haven't learned the language or anything about the culture.

Be that as it may, that view wasn't expressed by me.

"Often" was the word I used (going by a very long time living abroad, I personally think that's accurate.) Not "always" or even necessarily "usually". And CHOSE to not learn, not excluded from it. I've known and know of a great many as you describe as well. I suspect they are in at least a slight minority (especially back in the day - less enlightened time) but in any case their existence doesn't negate my view as stated.

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[SteeleJoe]

Take a walk into Jools bar in Suk soi 4.

All the "this place would fall apart if we werent here" types have long since departed these shores.

Replaced by, Thais who are better educated and qualified, plus can speak two languages and are versed in local etiquette.

I remember hearing the old, "I dont need this job they can stick it up their effin ass", its quite embarrassing to watch a grown man cry and grovel for any position once he is told, "theres the runway, have a nice flight home".

Interesting example. I don't know if what you say is true or not but the last time I went to Jools was when it was still relatively new (20+ years ago?) and it was always full of the sort of Expat I was speaking of...

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[rgs2001uk]

Take a walk into Jools bar in Suk soi 4.

All the "this place would fall apart if we werent here" types have long since departed these shores.

Replaced by, Thais who are better educated and qualified, plus can speak two languages and are versed in local etiquette.

I remember hearing the old, "I dont need this job they can stick it up their effin ass", its quite embarrassing to watch a grown man cry and grovel for any position once he is told, "theres the runway, have a nice flight home".

Interesting example. I don't know if what you say is true or not but the last time I went to Jools was when it was still relatively new (20+ years ago?) and it was always full of the sort of Expat I was speaking of...

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Thats why I used it as an example, who would have believed that after all these years Stan would be the last man standing.

KF as you know fled to Pattaya years ago, I believe Mattie has since relocated to the PI.

[Hedghog]

Only those who have to work would care.

Not me.

[carmine]

Take a walk into Jools bar in Suk soi 4.

All the "this place would fall apart if we werent here" types have long since departed these shores.

Replaced by, Thais who are better educated and qualified, plus can speak two languages and are versed in local etiquette.

I remember hearing the old, "I dont need this job they can stick it up their effin ass", its quite embarrassing to watch a grown man cry and grovel for any position once he is told, "theres the runway, have a nice flight home".

Why would educated career minded thais frequent Jools bar in soi 4?

[farang000999]

It is a very popular theme. The rise of the East and the collapse of the West.

Hopefully, at some point Thailand will get sidewalks and smoothly paved roads.

[SteeleJoe]

It is a very popular theme. The rise of the East and the collapse of the West.

Hopefully, at some point Thailand will get sidewalks and smoothly paved roads.

Someday. Or so one dreams...

But I think you've misunderstood the point of the article.

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[HardenedSoul]

It is a very popular theme. The rise of the East and the collapse of the West.

Hopefully, at some point Thailand will get sidewalks and smoothly paved roads.

Your mean the kind of sidewalks and smoothly paved roads Great Britain had when it was the world's most powerful economy and half its population lived in abject poverty?

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[carmine]

It is a very popular theme. The rise of the East and the collapse of the West.

Hopefully, at some point Thailand will get sidewalks and smoothly paved roads.

Your mean the kind of sidewalks and smoothly paved roads Great Britain had when it was the world's most powerful economy and half its population lived in abject poverty?

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Come again!

[HardenedSoul]

It is a very popular theme. The rise of the East and the collapse of the West.

Hopefully, at some point Thailand will get sidewalks and smoothly paved roads.

Your mean the kind of sidewalks and smoothly paved roads Great Britain had when it was the world's most powerful economy and half its population lived in abject poverty?

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Come again!

During the 1st and 2nd industrial revolutions and at the height of the Empire, poverty was widespread in Britain.

The post I responded to seemed to imply that sidewalks and smoothly paved roads are somehow indicative of a nation's economic ascension so I used the UK as an example of how the two have little bearing on the other.

Should I dumb it down a little more for you?

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