Thai ' Scavengers Club' Turns Trash To Treasure

[BookMan]

Rant over?

You might want to learn how to use the quoting facilities on this board. It is easy to use and will generally mean the people you are quoting can see you have quoted them and they can reply.

What you wrote is much like the story this thread is all about: recycling garbage.

[Rob8891]

@COC It is a pity that you have soaked your post in such a liberal dose of bile, because you actually make some good points. You have decimated (if not totally destroyed) your argument by ranting and by hurling insults at other posters. Now, whilst this sort of behaviour may well the norm for many people in the General forum, you actually had something worth saying, and (for me) worth reading: it had validity and was well-written (not always the norm yet again).

Sadly you took something useful and turned it into trash....but maybe someone can recyle some of your more usable offerings......

[ravip]

I hope I am not off topic here. But I thought this incident might fit in here.

Time & Place - 27 December, 2012 around 2100hrs at the Suvarnabhumi Airport.

I was waiting for my flight and suddenly a dishevelled farang wearing not so clean tee-shirt, shorts & flip flops sat by the side of me and said "are you Russian? are you Russian? please help me, please help me" and was quite insistent. The tone and his attitude did not prompt me even to utter a single word, but I just kept looking straight at him.

First and fore most I realized that he was not 'normal' for him to mistake me for a Russian - I look far different !!!

My first impression was that he was under the influence of some drug (not drunk) - his eyes, behavior etc. and definitely not there to catch a flight! After a moment when I didn't respond shifted to another row of seats where a young lady was seated - immediately she moved away and this guy moved on.

Is this a known character at Swampy?

[cup-O-coffee]

Rant over?

You might want to learn how to use the quoting facilities on this board. It is easy to use and will generally mean the people you are quoting can see you have quoted them and they can reply.

What you wrote is much like the story this thread is all about: recycling garbage.

Too many quotes and you cannot post with those posts, hence the quotes in that form. I think you get the point. Don't be so pedantic. It's your right to disagree. No worries.

Edited January 3, 2013 by cup-O-coffee

[cup-O-coffee]

@COC It is a pity that you have soaked your post in such a liberal dose of bile, because you actually make some good points. You have decimated (if not totally destroyed) your argument by ranting and by hurling insults at other posters. Now, whilst this sort of behaviour may well the norm for many people in the General forum, you actually had something worth saying, and (for me) worth reading: it had validity and was well-written (not always the norm yet again).

Sadly you took something useful and turned it into trash....but maybe someone can recyle some of your more usable offerings......

Thank you Rob8891. The insults were my hurt that I let get the better of me. You are right in that. Moreover, I submit that you post to those mentioned and dish out the same advice, unless you think that making a post that consists entirely of "You are an asshol_e" is within the realm of fair play. Their vernacular is abusive, digressive and offered no substantive rebuttal. I never claimed to be politically correct, and the truth comes in many forms. It's not meant for children to understand, but to respect. No hard feelings to all, but don't push or cut in line and expect favors. All the best.

[BookMan]

@COC It is a pity that you have soaked your post in such a liberal dose of bile, because you actually make some good points. You have decimated (if not totally destroyed) your argument by ranting and by hurling insults at other posters. Now, whilst this sort of behaviour may well the norm for many people in the General forum, you actually had something worth saying, and (for me) worth reading: it had validity and was well-written (not always the norm yet again).

Sadly you took something useful and turned it into trash....but maybe someone can recyle some of your more usable offerings......

Thank you Rob8891. The insults were my hurt that I let get the better of me. You are right in that. Moreover, I submit that you post to those mentioned and dish out the same advice, unless you think that making a post that consists entirely of "You are an asshol_e" is within the realm of fair play. Their vernacular is abusive, digressive and offered no substantive rebuttal. I never claimed to be politically correct, and the truth comes in many forms. It's not meant for children to understand, but to respect. No hard feelings to all, but don't push or cut in line and expect favors. All the best.

What is to rebut?

You offer nothing but judgemental ravings. It seems clear you don't like Thai society from a range of your posts over time. That's your right to, but offer up some hard evidence, don't use stories you invent or well worn stereotypes that please your mind.

Your first post on this thread was a concoction of fantasy. You ascribed life stories and happenings to characters in your mind, not to actual people or facts that appear in the article. Your ridicule of the persons and the article was quite pathetic in its content, while also being fictitious.

In both posts you use a broad range of generalisations filled with the bile of your personal view of the faults of Thai society.

To rebut each point is an exercise in fantasy argument. I would be pandering to your warped view of the 'state of play of Thai society'.

Offer some reasoned arguments, even add some proof, based on the actual article and I would be happy to answer your points. Note I said based on the article, not based on your own prejudices.

To quote yourself

Their vernacular is abusive, digressive and offered no substantive rebuttal

.

How about: Their 'Your vernacular is abusive, digressive and offered no substantive rebuttal'?

[JurgenG]

People are always surprised when I told them that a few years ago one of our company drivers resign a well paid job to get his dream job : garbage truck driver.

He was on the waiting list for a number of years when he finally get the job. It's a municipality job with all the advantages, he drives so he doesn't have to touch the garbage but still get his share of the loot at the end of the day. A dream job !

[BookMan]

People are always surprised when I told them that a few years ago one of our company drivers resign a well paid job to get his dream job : garbage truck driver.

He was on the waiting list for a number of years when he finally get the job. It's a municipality job with all the advantages, he drives so he doesn't have to touch the garbage but still get his share of the loot at the end of the day. A dream job !

Scavenging can also be quite addictive

[cup-O-coffee]

@COC It is a pity that you have soaked your post in such a liberal dose of bile, because you actually make some good points. You have decimated (if not totally destroyed) your argument by ranting and by hurling insults at other posters. Now, whilst this sort of behaviour may well the norm for many people in the General forum, you actually had something worth saying, and (for me) worth reading: it had validity and was well-written (not always the norm yet again).

Sadly you took something useful and turned it into trash....but maybe someone can recyle some of your more usable offerings......

Thank you Rob8891. The insults were my hurt that I let get the better of me. You are right in that. Moreover, I submit that you post to those mentioned and dish out the same advice, unless you think that making a post that consists entirely of "You are an asshol_e" is within the realm of fair play. Their vernacular is abusive, digressive and offered no substantive rebuttal. I never claimed to be politically correct, and the truth comes in many forms. It's not meant for children to understand, but to respect. No hard feelings to all, but don't push or cut in line and expect favors. All the best.

What is to rebut?

You offer nothing but judgemental ravings. It seems clear you don't like Thai society from a range of your posts over time. That's your right to, but offer up some hard evidence, don't use stories you invent or well worn stereotypes that please your mind.

Your first post on this thread was a concoction of fantasy. You ascribed life stories and happenings to characters in your mind, not to actual people or facts that appear in the article. Your ridicule of the persons and the article was quite pathetic in its content, while also being fictitious.

In both posts you use a broad range of generalisations filled with the bile of your personal view of the faults of Thai society.

To rebut each point is an exercise in fantasy argument. I would be pandering to your warped view of the 'state of play of Thai society'.

Offer some reasoned arguments, even add some proof, based on the actual article and I would be happy to answer your points. Note I said based on the article, not based on your own prejudices.

To quote yourself

Their vernacular is abusive, digressive and offered no substantive rebuttal

.

How about: Their 'Your vernacular is abusive, digressive and offered no substantive rebuttal'?

Nope! You are wrong in every respect. Your consistent ad hominem rebuttals demonstrates that you are obtuse. Get a life and watch the road; not the rain on your windscreen.

[BookMan]

Nope! You are wrong in every respect. Your consistent ad hominem rebuttals demonstrates that you are obtuse. Get a life and watch the road; not the rain on your windscreen.

Ad hominem seems to be the ThaiVisa phrase of the week, this is the third time this week I have read someone using it.

Now, I can hardly rebut any facts or common sense reasoning you provide as there isn't much of that yet, is there?

[StreetCowboy]

<span style="color: #008080">

...

StreetCowboy: "The people in your imagination seem quite unpleasant. I wouldn't put up with them; I'd throw them out and bring in a more bucolic crowd into my imagination. Or perhaps your imagination is a pretty squalid place where honest people would fear to tread... I bet you would imagine the sort of place where I got mugged..."

C.O.C.@StreetCowboy: Thank you for describing me. A bit ironic isn't it? Now, tell me why you are uncomfortable about anything I said, and why it is wrong or untruthful. Incidentally, we're not in Taiwan, nor in Kansas anymore, are we?

...

You seem to have taken a thread on recycling, and turned it into an attack on the social ills of Thai society.

I have nothing to say on that topic.

I am interested in recycling, though, and the way in which it is done here and elsewhere. It appears that someone has improved the effectiveness of recycling in Thailand and at the same time given some empowerment to those who are afflicted by Thailand's social ills, to help them survive until you have cured those social ills. I think that is to be applauded. I note that you don't hold out much optimism at being able to cure Thailand's social ills in the short term.

I wouldn't dream of speculating on your personality, but I was appalled at the people whom you imagined might be associated with a lady that is involved in sifting through rubbish to earn a living. If I imagined such people, I do not think I would introduce them to my friends on Thaivisa.

SC

Bytheway, I've never been to Kansas, and I'm not sure what they do about recycling

[cup-O-coffee]

<span style="color: #008080">

...

StreetCowboy: "The people in your imagination seem quite unpleasant. I wouldn't put up with them; I'd throw them out and bring in a more bucolic crowd into my imagination. Or perhaps your imagination is a pretty squalid place where honest people would fear to tread... I bet you would imagine the sort of place where I got mugged..."

C.O.C.@StreetCowboy: Thank you for describing me. A bit ironic isn't it? Now, tell me why you are uncomfortable about anything I said, and why it is wrong or untruthful. Incidentally, we're not in Taiwan, nor in Kansas anymore, are we?

...

You seem to have taken a thread on recycling, and turned it into an attack on the social ills of Thai society.

I have nothing to say on that topic.

I am interested in recycling, though, and the way in which it is done here and elsewhere. It appears that someone has improved the effectiveness of recycling in Thailand and at the same time given some empowerment to those who are afflicted by Thailand's social ills, to help them survive until you have cured those social ills. I think that is to be applauded. I note that you don't hold out much optimism at being able to cure Thailand's social ills in the short term.

I wouldn't dream of speculating on your personality, but I was appalled at the people whom you imagined might be associated with a lady that is involved in sifting through rubbish to earn a living. If I imagined such people, I do not think I would introduce them to my friends on Thaivisa.

SC

Bytheway, I've never been to Kansas, and I'm not sure what they do about recycling

I appreciate the input. I do not make the mistake of applying my western framework of mind in the hopes that Thais will resolve their problems accordingly. I try to avoid terms like would, should, if, etc. when imagining how these people's lives would be improved if they stopped being "Thai" and began being humans. I cannot say it more clearly than this; The Thai mindset is not dialed in to make their world a better place for others, nor are they consciously "empowering" those effected by the social ills that they are causing. How can you possibly believe that there is "someone" who is consciously being magnanimous and consciously empowering poverty stricken people? Do you really believe that there is some Thai big wig who is responsible for this imagined "empowerment"? Do you really believe that scavengers are included in the minutes at their recycling meetings? I submit that no one gives one iota of thought to poor people when they waste people's tax bahts at their plush get-togethers. I beg your pardon, but that really comes across as naive to me.

With that said, recycling programs do not include scavengers. The twain have nothing in common. Scavengers are those who come when others fail in their responsibility to clean up the mess which creates and attracts scavengers; or, they simply aren't there from the beginning. Aside from that, I remind you of my point that I cannot even believe that we are discussing the merits of labeling human beings as scavengers in a country that promotes itself as abiding by human rights issues, yet ignoring the complaints filed against them by the Human Rights Commission. To glorify a human being as a scavenger, and to give credit where credit is non-existent is ludicrous. You say empowerment, I say irresponsible and selfish.

I would not allow my son to rummage through our family waste, and I consider it human decency to not make it available for another human being to do the same. There is no honor in creating a cottage industry for human beings to wallow in my unwanted filth. This is not an issue that is temporary until those social ills, as you stated, are "cured". It is not in the Thai make-up to cure this described social ill. The social ills you describe are a direct result of their culture, and in order to cure those social ills you would have to remove their cultural thinking. Hence, it ain't gonna happen. Ever! It survives to perpetuate itself. If you think otherwise, I sure would be interested in reading your points on the matter.

I do understand what you are saying with regard to the theory and ideals on recycling, but as the poster said, you can't fix stupid (or stubborn). Thanks for your thoughts about this issue.

[maxme]

CoC: You put out the fine print and forgot to read between the lines... Comparing the west to Thailand is utterly futile. While in the west, we are taught being individuals, Thais are taught the opposite. Until they actually kick out the whole choir of useless Pooyai ministers, this is not going to change.

While I agree that it shouldn´t be glorified, the article still brings a spark of light as the woman could have done far worse and do what other lazy and cluess people would do... sit down outside some mall and beg for money.