Yingluck: 2006 Military Coup Makes Country Lose Opportunities; Thus Amendment Needed

[MAJIC]

Yingluck, the reason the foreign community is losing confidence in Thailand is because:

1. You and your "team" are not capable of running this country.

2. Your government puts personal interest before national interest.

3. Whitewashing crimes is seen as something very undemocratic in the eyes of the developed world.

4. Abusing power to silence the oppositions is not very democratic neither.

Yiingluck, maybe the problems lies with you, your criminal brother and your self-serving government? Ever thought about that?

Well said

To add, what do these democratic countries have to say about someone ruling as a proxy for a convicted fugitive? What is their take on a proclaimed "clone" running a country?

.

I very much doubt there is any diplomatic ruling anywhere that covers your version of events. Where would you find such a country that is run like that? You of course would need to obtain internationally agreed definitions of how and when it would be possible to run a country like that.

Stop trolling.

In fact it is so outrageous that it would be very hard to find anywhere in the World, but you forget,it was Thaksins own words,that coined the phrase "she is my clone" (refering to Yingluck) and indicating he is in control!

Edited January 8, 2013 by MAJIC

[jayboy]

Giving a view is not propaganda, if it is your view. One can claim it is misinformed, or inaccurate, but if you have no vested interest, it is not part of a strategy. Is he promoting a biased view in the article?

There are plenty of anti ptp pundits giving their opinions, that doesn't make their view propaganda.

By your definition all political comment its propaganda.

All comment which is not stated to be the view of the author, which is backed with unbias facts and figures is unscholarly. Therefore it is open to criticism by its' opponents.

What is taking place in Thai politics at the moment (the attempted use of political power and influence to absolve the criminal actions of another without proof of innosence) is illegal in most countries - fact.

The use of the court system to bog down the opponent is an American style of politics which is foreign to many, including myself and seems counter productive to the development of the country. This is something that for me personally is clouding my motivation to invest any small capital I have in the Kingdom.

Open discrimination against al foreigners, to varying degrees is another thing which unsettles me personally and makes me feel very unwelcome by the Thai establishment.

Of course it is open to criticism, but tarring it as blatent propaganda is hardly constructive. I can't find any reference that this guy has a vested interest in furthering the PTP cause, and the piece he wrote, shows why he considers the current constitution to not be democratic.

Now the facts of the matter are, that the way the thing was put together and the way it was voted on, wasn't ideal in giving the constitution complete legitimacy, but yes, it passed muster. Now, in and of itself, if a government wants to find a way to change a constitution, it should be able to with a referendum from the people. There are issues with the constitution that aren't ideal in my opinion, others think it is fine, but at the end of the day, if it passes muster at a referendum, if someone says the 2007 vote was legitimate (despite the limitations on campaigning etc, and formulating the drafting committee), how can one not accept any changes through referendum by the current government?

None of these are unreasonable views, although, i wouldn't go along with using the constitution to pardon Thaksin, but then, why should it be allowed that a coup maker can write his own get out clause when they break the law? Beacuse they have lots of guns? 1997 wasn't a perfect constitution, 2007 tightens things up, but was held under the cloud of the coup and the junta, so lets see what they come up with next.

The people Voted and accepted the Referendum,by the Temporary Military Government,(which they always claimed to be)with no coercion,or vote Campaigning,so the people must have been happy with the new Constitution.

Complete nonsense.The military sponsored constitution was rammed through in the traditional blustering banana republic style.The referendum was a travesty with the threat that if it was not passed it would be pushed through anyway.Even then it just scraped through.

[MAJIC]

@ jayboy (too many quotes Post 92)

It seems your recollection of the Military Referendum,is completely different that mine,as I recall, it was a free vote,with no canvassing or interference: are you saying that the Military fixed the Ballot Box to push the freely voted acceptance of the Constitution results in their favour?

Edited January 8, 2013 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

http://en.wikipedia....nd#cite_note-40

Democrat Party

The Democrat Party supported the draft constitution. Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said the Democrat Party considered the new constitution similar to the 1997 Constitution, but with improvements. "If we wanted to please the Council for National Security we would reject the draft so it could pick a charter of its own choosing. If we reject the draft, it will be like handing out power to the Council. We have come up with this stand because we care about the national interest and want democracy to be restored soon," he said.^[39]Acknowledging the flaws of the new Constitution, Abhisit has also proposed, along with asking for cooperation from other political parties, to amend the Constitution once he is in power.^[40]

Have never noticed this one before. And of course, he lost.......

http://www.time.com/...1655420,00.html

That leaves the Democrats in their strongest position since losing power to Thaksin back in 2001. Hardly a cocky politician, Abhisit is predicting success in December. "I believe that democracy will reward the Democrats," he says with a bashful grin. "Of course, you could say the same about the Democrats in America, too. Maybe we'll have both dreams come true."

The upshot: Thailand could soon return to days when weak coalition governments rose and fell with the predictability of the monsoons.

Abhisit proposes to fix that by amending the constitution should he assume the PM post. That could mean yet another referendum. "I have faith that the electorate will do what's right," he says, surprising words perhaps for a Bangkok patrician whose party was overwhelmed by Thaksin's populist tactics six years ago

Read more: http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz2HOjgsOQd

Isn't the internet a bummer. Every word, every sentiment, everything, preserved in perfect black and white.

It sure is a Bummer,that's why Thaksin has been caught out so many times.as an inveterate Liar! who can't remember from one week to the next,what he said to the Media,or on his phone ins.

[InActionMan]

Some great comments in this forum and it's not a case of foreigners being smart a....d and superior. I live in Isan and my neighbours see Thaksin as a god so everything connected to him must be correct and all else is wrong. They did cringe many years back when the King used his birthday speech to make very pointed remarks but they wrote it off as a "misunderstanding" !

A Thai friend once said the country deserves all it gets as the people are easily conned and allow it to happen

[Scott]

A libelous post has been deleted. I strongly suggest some posters limit the tone of their rhetoric.

[Thai at Heart]

@ jayboy (too many quotes Post 92)

It seems your recollection of the Military Referendum,is completely different that mine,as I recall, it was a free vote,with no canvassing or interference: are you saying that the Military fixed the Ballot Box to push the freely voted acceptance of the Constitution results in their favour?

Have you read anything about how the vote was carried out.

30 plus provinces were under state of emergency. I don't like to use wikipedia too much but the list of issues with the vote for the 2007 constitution takes up plenty of room.

It was by no means the ideal way to vote on a constitution.

[waza]

She seems to be doing quite well.

Audiences with world leaders, growing economy, eminently re-electable, peace with Cambodia, growing economic and political stature within ASEAN, Active involvement in Myanmar, Foreign investment increasing, BOI approvals up, tourism up, domestic economy stable, apparent harmony with the Palace, Prem the Privy Council and the Military and last but not least increasing prosperity for the Thai citizen.

To paraphrase Churchil, "some chicken, some neck, some clone.........."

Not yet charged with murder, either..........

In response to bucholz

You have to be delusional, the only ones increasing their prosperity are the PTP government.

[Skywalker69]

Yingluck, the reason the foreign community is losing confidence in Thailand is because:

1. You and your "team" are not capable of running this country.

2. Your government puts personal interest before national interest.

3. Whitewashing crimes is seen as something very undemocratic in the eyes of the developed world.

4. Abusing power to silence the oppositions is not very democratic neither.

Yiingluck, maybe the problems lies with you, your criminal brother and your self-serving government? Ever thought about that?

Well said

To add, what do these democratic countries have to say about someone ruling as a proxy for a convicted fugitive? What is their take on a proclaimed "clone" running a country?

.

I very much doubt there is any diplomatic ruling anywhere that covers your version of events. Where would you find such a country that is run like that? You of course would need to obtain internationally agreed definitions of how and when it would be possible to run a country like that.

Stop trolling.

"A veteran corporate executive in the Shinawatra family’s business group, Yingluck’s lack of political experience means Thaksin will likely continue to steer the party from abroad, where he’s lived since fleeing a two-year prison term for abuse of power in a 2008 court ruling, analysts said.

‘My Clone’

“People know very little about her thoughts,” said Kongkiat Opaswongkarn, chief executive officer of Asia Plus Securities Pcl (ASP), Thailand’s third-biggest brokerage. “She reports directly to Thaksin. The slogan the party uses, ‘Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai implements,’ will be exactly the way it is.”

Thaksin described Yingluck as “not my nominee but my clone,” in an interview published May 20 in the Bangkok-based Matichon newspaper. “I raised her like my eldest daughter because mom passed away when she was young,”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-15/thaksin-looms-in-thai-vote-as-yingluck-lead-unsettles-investors.html

[whybother]

Yingluck: 2006 Military Coup Makes Country Lose Opportunities; Thus Amendment Needed

I think this is one of those cases where Yingluck thinks that if they say the coup didn't happen, everyone will believe them and there opportunities will come flooding back.

[maidu]

Well isn't this interesting. Yesterday those of you that commented were reasonable and rational. Today after reading one inoffensive talk by the PM you are back with your bad language and insults. God know's how long it is going to take for you guy's to realize that it is you that are the problem. You and Khun Abhisit. One illegal coups d'tete and you are so sure that you have Thailand by the throat. Thailand has a legitimate government that has an impressive and strong mandate. The Thai PM rules with the authority and dignity of the Monarchy. The current orderly conduct of government is something that you Democrat's don't seem to know anything about. It is this orderliness that is responsible for Thaland's gradual return to the World Stage with dignity.

Coup d'etats aren't pretty the same way surgery isn't. No one wants to be cut open by a knife and have some malignency removed, but sometimes extreme measures are needed to save the patient. Thaksin had a lot of warning about an impending coup, and he kept up his customary divisive and corrupt behavior. Without the coup, he would have set himself up as dictator-for-life and amassed obscene riches - to the detriment of the Thai people. His track record and all his actions were heading in that direction. As it was, no one contested the coup when it took place. It was swift, bloodless, and not a shot was fired. All Thailand breathed a collective sigh of relief. It was only later, when Mr. 'I'm through with politics' Thaksin kept stirring up trouble, that we had creation of, and ensuing problems with Reds. Plus, we've got an inept gov't which is so busy trying to get T back in the driver's seat, that it can't do anything useful for the regular Thai people. And Thai hill tribers? Fogedabowdit. They're forgotten about, or they're treated like dirt under fingernails.

Edited January 9, 2013 by maidu

[muttley]

Agreeably it is difficult to find another country run by a declared clone.

.

And the one to which you are referring is?

[muttley]

Let's just say I'm happy that after a month of back-and-forth our creative PM has found the main reason why a rewrite of some laws (and the constitution) is necessary: Some foreigners don't like it

Fabulously poignant..... As usual.

.

Poignant is the correct emotion here. Both rubls and your posts often fill me with regret.

[OzMick]

Let's just say I'm happy that after a month of back-and-forth our creative PM has found the main reason why a rewrite of some laws (and the constitution) is necessary: Some foreigners don't like it

Fabulously poignant..... As usual.

.

Poignant is the correct emotion here. Both rubls and your posts often fill me with regret.

I fear that as this government's term progresses, more and more Thais will share your sentiment. A tad of shame might make a nice mix.

[FarangTalk]

Coup d'etats aren't pretty the same way surgery isn't. No one wants to be cut open by a knife and have some malignency removed, but sometimes extreme measures are needed to save the patient.

I would suggest that if the patient needs 19 of those 'extreme measure removals' in 75 years the problem isn't with the governing bodies being removed in this fashion but somewhere else.

Wouldn't you agree?

[MunterHunter]

Coup d'etats aren't pretty the same way surgery isn't. No one wants to be cut open by a knife and have some malignency removed, but sometimes extreme measures are needed to save the patient.

I would suggest that if the patient needs 19 of those 'extreme measure removals' in 75 years the problem isn't with the governing bodies being removed in this fashion but somewhere else.

Wouldn't you agree?

Well if you only remove half of the cancer, the rest will continue to grow and mutate - perhaps total removal of the offending infection would be a better approach?

[Thait Spot]

Yingluck: 2006 Military Coup Makes Country Lose Opportunities; Thus Amendment Needed

I think this is one of those cases where Yingluck thinks that if they say the coup didn't happen, everyone will believe them and there opportunities will come flooding back.

Thanks in wants to return the country exactly where it was in 2006

I don't believe any changes to the constitution will benefit the populous. The only people that will benefit are the Shinawatra inner circle of nefariousness.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[muttley]

@ jayboy (too many quotes Post 92)

It seems your recollection of the Military Referendum,is completely different that mine,as I recall, it was a free vote,with no canvassing or interference: are you saying that the Military fixed the Ballot Box to push the freely voted acceptance of the Constitution results in their favour?

Have you read anything about how the vote was carried out.

30 plus provinces were under state of emergency. I don't like to use wikipedia too much but the list of issues with the vote for the 2007 constitution takes up plenty of room.

It was by no means the ideal way to vote on a constitution.

MAJIC, I have suggested to others in this thread that they have a look at Michael H Nelsons view on (amongst other things - he has strong words to say about Thaksin so he may be on an approved book list ) the referendum and how it was carried out. For example bearing in mind the southern provinces do you not think it is slightly strange that despite the fact that no correspondence about the 309 section constitution was translated into Malay, ALL of the "Malay" states voted yes, 35 Provinces were under Martial Law, etc. etc.

[muttley]

Coup d'etats aren't pretty the same way surgery isn't. No one wants to be cut open by a knife and have some malignency removed, but sometimes extreme measures are needed to save the patient.

I would suggest that if the patient needs 19 of those 'extreme measure removals' in 75 years the problem isn't with the governing bodies being removed in this fashion but somewhere else.

Wouldn't you agree?

Well if you only remove half of the cancer, the rest will continue to grow and mutate - perhaps total removal of the offending infection would be a better approach?

So you'd prefer a one party state? The Thai people have made their choice at the ballot box, why should the army feel that they know better? Or the people behind the army coups for that matter?

[Moruya]

If you knew anything about Dr Songkran your suggestion he is a mouthpiece for PTP propaganda would certainly be a dishonest slur.But the evidence of your posts suggests a myopic ignorance rather than malice.

Kindly cease and desist forthwith with your pompous support of the bewildered. If you have something that supports a portfolio of enlightened benevolence on his part then please do provide some links in order that we may ascertain for ourselves the good he has brought to mankind. If not then save the vacuum around you for the flatulence that it awaits.

So how does that reconcile with this statement "PTP-supported piece of propaganda". Did PTP support him to write the piece, or did he come up with it himself. There are many reasonable points in the piece, also some I don't agree with, but to say it is a piece of "supported propaganda" suggest that in some way it was orchestrated by the PTP, for which there is no evidence at all. It's just a Thai person with a very good grasp of English and a foreign education putting his views forward as to what is wrong with the current constitution.

On the whole he isn't wrong, in my opinion, but the one issue I can't agree with him on is providing an amnesty for Thaksin because the constitution provides an amnesty for the coup makers. That doesn't work.

I'll happily read up on the work of anyone that I haven't heard of - but having that unknown person's opinion promoted as if it's the unquestionable and unpublsihed work of Einstein doesn't quite cut it for me!

[ridkun]

I really hope red shirts will skip using instant bogus reasoning like "being accepted by foreign countries" and "as every civilised nations do" in every statements they claimed once and for all, so we can eventually get back to the topic of Thailand and Thai people's interest.

[Nickymaster]

Coup d'etats aren't pretty the same way surgery isn't. No one wants to be cut open by a knife and have some malignency removed, but sometimes extreme measures are needed to save the patient.

I would suggest that if the patient needs 19 of those 'extreme measure removals' in 75 years the problem isn't with the governing bodies being removed in this fashion but somewhere else.

Wouldn't you agree?

Well if you only remove half of the cancer, the rest will continue to grow and mutate - perhaps total removal of the offending infection would be a better approach?

So you'd prefer a one party state? The Thai people have made their choice at the ballot box, why should the army feel that they know better? Or the people behind the army coups for that matter?

This is answered very well in post nr 101.

[muttley]

This is answered very well in post nr 101.

Well, No it isn't. A fully endorsed perfectly legitimate election had been arranged to be held just a few weeks after the coup happened. Why did the Army take it upon itself to take away the chance of the Thai citizen to vote for another party to govern Thailand other than Mr Thaksins party.

The rest of his post does not answer anything but is just the usual rant against Thaksin and any government that is not run by the democrat party.

[maidu]

I really hope red shirts will skip using instant bogus reasoning like "being accepted by foreign countries" and "as every civilised nations do" in every statements they claimed once and for all, so we can eventually get back to the topic of Thailand and Thai people's interest.

PT and Red Shirts can only think the way Thaksin tells them to think. Their motto:"Thaksin thinks, Puea Thai acts." Plus, during Thaksin's time as PM, he famously said, "The UN is not my father." meaning: 'it doesn't matter what farang or their organizations think about Thailand. We Thais do what we want, how we want.' So, of course the reason given is bogus, as is nearly everything Yingluck and the PT party put forth. The coup was 10 years ago. It's time to move on. The Thai people deserve halfway decent leaders and they're not getting them. Or perhaps they deserve what the majority voted for, whether their votes were paid for or not: a mediocre bunch who's only agenda is trying to get T forgiven and brought back to Thailand, even if it means farting around with the Constitution.

[maidu]

Coup d'etats aren't pretty the same way surgery isn't. No one wants to be cut open by a knife and have some malignency removed, but sometimes extreme measures are needed to save the patient.

I would suggest that if the patient needs 19 of those 'extreme measure removals' in 75 years the problem isn't with the governing bodies being removed in this fashion but somewhere else. Wouldn't you agree?

Well if you only remove half of the cancer, the rest will continue to grow and mutate - perhaps total removal of the offending infection would be a better approach?

So you'd prefer a one party state? The Thai people have made their choice at the ballot box, why should the army feel that they know better? Or the people behind the army coups for that matter?

Being the hub of coup d'etats isn't something Thais are proud of. Yet, if you look at the histories of other 3rd world countries around the world, you'll see many scenarios that make Thailand's look rather good. Since WWII, most countries in Africa have suffered from devastating dictatorships. Elsewhere, many others, including Cambodia, Chile, Rwanda, Bosnia, Haiti, Iraq, Iran (to name just a few) have had terrible recent histories which make Thailand look rosy in comparison, even with its nearly 20 coups. Sure bloodless coup d'etats are bad, but there are worse scenarios aplenty.

[rubl]

Well, since discussing contents of the 2007 constitution and differences with the 1997 seems to difficult for lots of posters here, let's just speculate on the process with which the 2007 constitution came to be accepted.

Theoretically if the validity of the 2007 constitution is in doubt than worst (best?) case it is simply invalid. As such we do not have a valid government, and didn't have one since late 2007. Who will tell PM Yingluck to step down? Volunteers to step forward, please

Selected volunteers also need to inform all cabinet ministers including Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm!

Edited January 9, 2013 by rubl

[ratcatcher]

Well isn't this interesting. Yesterday those of you that commented were reasonable and rational. Today after reading one inoffensive talk by the PM you are back with your bad language and insults. God know's how long it is going to take for you guy's to realize that it is you that are the problem. You and Khun Abhisit. One illegal coups d'tete and you are so sure that you have Thailand by the throat. Thailand has a legitimate government that has an impressive and strong mandate. The Thai PM rules with the authority and dignity of the Monarchy. The current orderly conduct of government is something that you Democrat's don't seem to know anything about. It is this orderliness that is responsible for Thaland's gradual return to the World Stage with dignity.

"The Thai PM rules with the authority and dignity of the Monarchy."

Politics and the monarchy in one bold sentence. Do you really believe this or are you just extracting the urine?

[backtonormal]

Unbelievable! Is she really so naive and actually believes what she's blabbering or have these words perhaps been spoon-fed to her by "someone"?

Ma'am, how many times have you insisted publicly in the past few months that foreigners had tremendous confidence in Thailand? Wasn't all your extensive traveling abroad over the past year primarily intended to further shore up that confidence and didn't you claim each and every time what a smashing success your respective trip was? And now this revelation? The mind boggles.

Ma'am, a coup that took place almost 7 years ago has little bearing on the confidence of foreign investors in Thailand. If you want to search for reasons that might actually shake that confidence, I believe you must be looking closer to home: institutionalised corruption with everyone getting their turn at the feeding trough, red-shirted thugs running rampage and even being offered cabinet posts, a government that is directed/played by a fugitive convicted felon from abroad, incompetent ministers who earned their posts due to dubious "loyalties" instead of capabilities; and the list goes on.

Most people on the streets (those who you claim you represent) are perfectly aware why your government is pushing so vehemently to amend the current constitution: because the current checks and balances must be done away with to enable more feeding at the trough, because the judiciary is deemed too powerful and curbs those feeding frenzies all too often, and of course as a first step to enable the glorious return of the messiah.

I think she forgets that Abhist went a long way towards reassuring foreigners that there will be no more coups when they kicked ass on her brothers attempt in 2010.

I believe she forgets (conveniently) that if it had not been for the last coup Thailand would now be a dictatorship.

Sorry beg to differ. There was a coup in Thailand because if Thaksin had called another election , as was reported, and won with a larger majority it would have cemented his place as the most popular Thai and he would have been untouchable. Not to worry hes slowly but surely regaining all that popularity

[ratcatcher]

Unbelievable! Is she really so naive and actually believes what she's blabbering or have these words perhaps been spoon-fed to her by "someone"?

Ma'am, how many times have you insisted publicly in the past few months that foreigners had tremendous confidence in Thailand? Wasn't all your extensive traveling abroad over the past year primarily intended to further shore up that confidence and didn't you claim each and every time what a smashing success your respective trip was? And now this revelation? The mind boggles.

Ma'am, a coup that took place almost 7 years ago has little bearing on the confidence of foreign investors in Thailand. If you want to search for reasons that might actually shake that confidence, I believe you must be looking closer to home: institutionalised corruption with everyone getting their turn at the feeding trough, red-shirted thugs running rampage and even being offered cabinet posts, a government that is directed/played by a fugitive convicted felon from abroad, incompetent ministers who earned their posts due to dubious "loyalties" instead of capabilities; and the list goes on.

Most people on the streets (those who you claim you represent) are perfectly aware why your government is pushing so vehemently to amend the current constitution: because the current checks and balances must be done away with to enable more feeding at the trough, because the judiciary is deemed too powerful and curbs those feeding frenzies all too often, and of course as a first step to enable the glorious return of the messiah.

I think she forgets that Abhist went a long way towards reassuring foreigners that there will be no more coups when they kicked ass on her brothers attempt in 2010.

I believe she forgets (conveniently) that if it had not been for the last coup Thailand would now be a dictatorship.

Sorry beg to differ. There was a coup in Thailand because if Thaksin had called another election , as was reported, and won with a larger majority it would have cemented his place as the most popular Thai and he would have been untouchable. Not to worry hes slowly but surely regaining all that popularity

See my post above if you think he's the most popular Thai. That honor is reserved for a very special person, as you well know.

However his sister has been judged more popular than her divisive brother.

[backtonormal]

@ jayboy (too many quotes Post 92)

It seems your recollection of the Military Referendum,is completely different that mine,as I recall, it was a free vote,with no canvassing or interference: are you saying that the Military fixed the Ballot Box to push the freely voted acceptance of the Constitution results in their favour?

Have you read anything about how the vote was carried out.

30 plus provinces were under state of emergency. I don't like to use wikipedia too much but the list of issues with the vote for the 2007 constitution takes up plenty of room.

It was by no means the ideal way to vote on a constitution.

MAJIC, I have suggested to others in this thread that they have a look at Michael H Nelsons view on (amongst other things - he has strong words to say about Thaksin so he may be on an approved book list ) the referendum and how it was carried out. For example bearing in mind the southern provinces do you not think it is slightly strange that despite the fact that no correspondence about the 309 section constitution was translated into Malay, ALL of the "Malay" states voted yes, 35 Provinces were under Martial Law, etc. etc.

Bit like the Dems winning Bangkok when the Dusit poll had predicted nearly 25 of the 35 seats to The PTT in the last election. Not much but couple that with the 7,000,000 extra ballot papers and things smell a tad