Sin Suan Tua/sin Somros Question

[cardholder]

I have read the Thai Law Online notes which are very helpful.

However, I am confused.

A friend's wife has just left him and he wants to know where he stands 'legally'. In an attempt to do this I accompanied him to one of the provinces prominent lawyers.

He has been married for two years and PRIOR to marriage he built a house on land owned by, and adjacent to, his mother in law. The house cost 2.3m Baht including furnished - all for by him. Assets acquired post marriage are cars and m/cy worth 150,000 Baht.

The lawyer was adamant that he was entitled to a 50% share of all assets and could remain in the property as long as he wished. As his wife left him he could also claim addition sums from her if he wanted to be 'difficult'. The fact the house sits on land owned (and is part of a single chanote) by MiL didn't seem to concern anyone.

I accept that a 'negotiated' settlement is the usual/only way forward as neither paty can/wants to buy out the other and Thais never want to sell anything.

The 50/50 entitlement sounds good news but, to me, I would have classified the house (registered in wife's name) as sin suan tua.

I would welcome opinions of those in the know.

[prakhonchai nick]

Most of the major law firms in Thailand, who have their own web sites clearly indicate that anything bought before marriage by either party does not form part of the settlement upon divorce.

If your friend paid for the house and furniture, then technically he bought them. However can he prove that?

Even if he can, the MIL could be bloody minded enough to refuse him permission to access HIS property via her land.

[Mario2008]

Land can not be owned by a foreigner, a house can be owned (with a 30 year lease on the ground it stands on).

The question is who legally ons the houseand since when. From your information I gather the house is registered in his wife's name, making it legally her property. (He would have to get some pretty good effidence to convince a judge from it being it otherwise). If the house was in her name before the marrige, he is not entitled to the house as she owned it before the marriage.

Only what was gained during the marriage is split upon divorce.

More important than the letter of the law is however how a judge will regard things. I believe there are some hopeful rulings, but this case might be different if the house was in her name before the marriage. Teh question is than to convince a judge the money for the house was a loan to her and not a gift.

Given the money involved I would consult a lawyer, competent in family and property law. On a forum you can only get some genral advise and her it will be the specific circumstances that might make all the difference.

[cardholder]

Land can not be owned by a foreigner, a house can be owned (with a 30 year lease on the ground it stands on).

The question is who legally ons the houseand since when. From your information I gather the house is registered in his wife's name, making it legally her property. (He would have to get some pretty good effidence to convince a judge from it being it otherwise). If the house was in her name before the marrige, he is not entitled to the house as she owned it before the marriage.

Only what was gained during the marriage is split upon divorce.

More important than the letter of the law is however how a judge will regard things. I believe there are some hopeful rulings, but this case might be different if the house was in her name before the marriage. Teh question is than to convince a judge the money for the house was a loan to her and not a gift.

Given the money involved I would consult a lawyer, competent in family and property law. On a forum you can only get some genral advise and her it will be the specific circumstances that might make all the difference.

With utmost respect Mario but I doubt that house registration confers ANY degree of ownership - any more than a lease confers ownership, only rights to use a property.

The house is NOT in the wife's name - the house is on the overall land chanote owned by MiL.

Advice HAS been taken from a lawyer with extensive matrimonial experience. The issue (for me) is that the advice goes against what I believed about sin suan tua.

The lawyer is adamant that he would get a court order awarding 50% of the assets to the Farang. Further, he seemed totally unphased by the fact the fact the house was built (like an island) on MiL's land.

What I am looking for is someone who has had personal experience, or is personally aware, of such situations. Sebastian may wish to comment.

The hypothesis clearly doesn't work (in this case) and the lawyer was convinced that as the house was built for the couple's habitation (the marriage took place at the house) it falls into sin somros. The 'black and white' timeline of marriage that I had previously believed to be the 'watershed' appears not to be the case - in this case .

[Mario2008]

Sorry, I misread your post as it being in your wife's name instead of her mothers name. That makes a difference.

The lawyers advice should be much better than mine. Personally I would say that if the house is on the chanote and in the MiL's name, it is her house and she can just kick him out. if it his her property and I don't see why the wife should have a claim, or your friend.

Furnishing are his, but that is it.

But I would recheck in who's name the house is, as that should be the determining factor.

For a second opnion I would PM Sebastian or send him an email, the adress is on isaanlawyers website.

[cardholder]

Sorry, I misread your post as it being in your wife's name instead of her mothers name. That makes a difference.

The lawyers advice should be much better than mine. Personally I would say that if the house is on the chanote and in the MiL's name, it is her house and she can just kick him out. if it his her property and I don't see why the wife should have a claim, or your friend.

Furnishing are his, but that is it.

But I would recheck in who's name the house is, as that should be the determining factor.

For a second opnion I would PM Sebastian or send him an email, the adress is on isaanlawyers website.

Thanks Mario, I have used Sebastian's services before but he was a bit 'off piste' as far as my friend's location is concerned. I am also loathe to abuse his time for a second opinion when there is unlikely to be any work at the end of it,

I will have a think.... thanks.