Expat Insurance Poll

[mackes]

Regarding the prices for insurance for those of us over 60 it would be interesting to see what insurance coverage 60+ Expats in Thailand have in case of an incident that demand immediate medical care and makes home transportation impossible. A heart surgery can easily end up in over 1.000.000 ฿...

Any input is welcome!

Edited January 27, 2013 by craigt3365

[cooked]

As I have stated elsewhere, I am basically going for a mixture of self insurance and a cheap Thai insurance. I can't see the point in paying for a health insurance that is going to increase its premiums astronomically after a certain age, forcing you out of their system as you are a bad risk, or refuse to pay for one reason or another.

[MrRealDeal]

I get free medical insurance because my wife has a decent job. AIA is all I can read on the card the rest is in Thai I double checked to make sure it wasn't AXA

We have Life we don't need at this point as well.

I have an unbrella policy that protects me from civil lawsuits for most everything but drunk driving.

Edited January 15, 2013 by MrRealDeal

[johnds99]

i have Medicare supplement insurance with blue Cross from the USA which covers out of USA medical as if it was covered by Medicare in the USA

[MichelBangkok]

The survey questionnaire forces you to answer all three questions; if you answer "none" to the first two you are still forced to respond something like "under 10,000" to the third one, although it should also be "none"...

[mackes]

The survey questionnaire forces you to answer all three questions; if you answer "none" to the first two you are still forced to respond something like "under 10,000" to the third one, although it should also be "none"...

None is also under 10 000

[chiang mai]

I self insure and have done so sucessfully for the past ten years, that despite having paid a couple of not insignificant hospital bills, one of which was for heart surgery which cost under 200k baht at Bumrungrad four years ago, not the 1 mill. you mention! When it comes to assessing how much I have paid out for health care treatment vs how much I would have paid in premiums, I am well ahead of the game and will stay that way regradless, insurance in general preys on fear and health insurance is no different.

[cooked]

The lack of interest in this thread as well as others that have been put up on the subject suggests to me that most expats are

1.Employed by a firm that offers them insurance (or have a wife in government service)

2.Young guys that are never going to get ill or

3.Old guys that can't afford insurance.

The problem is that these groups will never answer a poll like this.

I agree with Chiang Mai's remarks 100% but then again I like to gamble.

[whybother]

The lack of interest in this thread as well as others that have been put up on the subject suggests to me that most expats are

1.Employed by a firm that offers them insurance (or have a wife in government service)

2.Young guys that are never going to get ill or

3.Old guys that can't afford insurance.

The problem is that these groups will never answer a poll like this.

I agree with Chiang Mai's remarks 100% but then again I like to gamble.

Given that the poll "only for Expats 60 and over living in Thailand", your option number 2 should be "Young guys that are never going to get ill".

[cooked]

Sorry. But still a valid remark I think. I was talking about the lack of interest in the poll.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

The lack of interest in this thread as well as others that have been put up on the subject suggests to me that most expats are

1.Employed by a firm that offers them insurance (or have a wife in government service)

2.Young guys that are never going to get ill or

3.Old guys that can't afford insurance.

4) Already dead.

[mackes]

I self insure and have done so sucessfully for the past ten years, that despite having paid a couple of not insignificant hospital bills, one of which was for heart surgery which cost under 200k baht at Bumrungrad four years ago, not the 1 mill. you mention! When it comes to assessing how much I have paid out for health care treatment vs how much I would have paid in premiums, I am well ahead of the game and will stay that way regradless, insurance in general preys on fear and health insurance is no different.

I agree with you but there will be a risc in the first couple of years of saving before you buildt up the neccessary assets to pay for a urgent surgery. That is where the insurance is motivated.

If you have the money to pay for any surrgery I really don't see why you should give money to an insurer, they are pro on calculate riscs and will almost always win.

I'm happy to hear that your heart surgery was not as expensive as I hear from other sources, that definitly change my picture. However I presume this differs with choice of hospital, I'll check with mine.

[chiang mai]

I self insure and have done so sucessfully for the past ten years, that despite having paid a couple of not insignificant hospital bills, one of which was for heart surgery which cost under 200k baht at Bumrungrad four years ago, not the 1 mill. you mention! When it comes to assessing how much I have paid out for health care treatment vs how much I would have paid in premiums, I am well ahead of the game and will stay that way regradless, insurance in general preys on fear and health insurance is no different.

I agree with you but there will be a risc in the first couple of years of saving before you buildt up the neccessary assets to pay for a urgent surgery. That is where the insurance is motivated.

If you have the money to pay for any surrgery I really don't see why you should give money to an insurer, they are pro on calculate riscs and will almost always win.

I'm happy to hear that your heart surgery was not as expensive as I hear from other sources, that definitly change my picture. However I presume this differs with choice of hospital, I'll check with mine.

Check around the various hospitals, many of them have web sites that display their prices and many have package deals, procedures such as balloon and stent are very competitve these days and easily had for THB 175k, by contrast a single by-pass at Bumrungrad had a package price of 450k the last time I looked.

[dantilley]

My answer to the question "What insurance company are you using" was "Other (please state in post below)" - the company I use is Henner GMC, a French company.

[stoli]

I self insure and have done so sucessfully for the past ten years, that despite having paid a couple of not insignificant hospital bills, one of which was for heart surgery which cost under 200k baht at Bumrungrad four years ago, not the 1 mill. you mention! When it comes to assessing how much I have paid out for health care treatment vs how much I would have paid in premiums, I am well ahead of the game and will stay that way regradless, insurance in general preys on fear and health insurance is no different.

2 1/2 years ago I had triple bypass heart surgery at Bangkok Heart Hospital in Bangkok. Cost then was 725,000 baht.

[chiang mai]

I self insure and have done so sucessfully for the past ten years, that despite having paid a couple of not insignificant hospital bills, one of which was for heart surgery which cost under 200k baht at Bumrungrad four years ago, not the 1 mill. you mention! When it comes to assessing how much I have paid out for health care treatment vs how much I would have paid in premiums, I am well ahead of the game and will stay that way regradless, insurance in general preys on fear and health insurance is no different.

2 1/2 years ago I had triple bypass heart surgery at Bangkok Heart Hospital in Bangkok. Cost then was 725,000 baht.

Coronary artery bypass at Bumrungrad, frequently on "special", todays price THB 500k,

http://www.bumrungrad.com/en/heart-treatment-surgery-thailand/cabg-coronary-artery-bypass-graft-1-1

But I agree prices have risen hugely in the last couple of years.

[JLCrab]

From CM above: I am well ahead of the game and will stay that way regardless

Such a statement is meaningless unless one knows how old you are not that I am suggesting you so divulge. Insurance companies of course front load premiums such that one in most cases pays in more than one takes out in his/her younger years. Of course, if one is not planning on becoming old, then that is another story.

However the real predicament for someone like Kuhn CM right now -- although I would guess that he does not see it that way -- is that having had major heart surgery already, he probably would have a hard time buying health insurance today even if he wanted to buy it.

Edited January 26, 2013 by JLCrab

[chiang mai]

From CM above: I am well ahead of the game and will stay that way regardless

Such a statement is meaningless unless one knows how old you are not that I am suggesting you so divulge. Insurance companies of course front load premiums such that one in most cases pays in more than one takes out in his/her younger years. Of course, if one is not planning on becoming old, then that is another story.

However the real predicament for someone like Kuhn CM right now -- although I would guess that he does not see it that way -- is that having had major heart surgery already, he probably would have a hard time buying health insurance today even if he wanted to buy it.

I'm 63 but I stopped buying health insurance when I was 51, a concious decision based on the math. True, today I would probably have a difficult time buying health insurance for much more than ingrown toenails.

Edited January 26, 2013 by chiang mai

[HappyInCM]

I use ACS recommended by AA brokers. I drive a big bike and want to make absolutely certain I'm covered in case I'm incapacitated. Otherwise I'd probably self insure.

I self insure for outpatient.

[JLCrab]

So for the gent above, from age 63 until whenever, any medical treatment especially inpatient will be cash out of pocket with maybe a big deposit or payment in full before some hospitals will even admit you.

From age 51 to 63 (if in Thailand all those years), if one has chosen not to purchase health insurance, the accumulated savings would be about 5-600,000 baht. That doesn't go very far for medical treatment for one's years 63 to whenever even in LOS.

Not the way I have chosen to live.

Edited January 26, 2013 by JLCrab

[chiang mai]

So for the gent above, from age 63 until whenever, any medical treatment especially inpatient will be cash out of pocket with maybe a big deposit or payment in full before some hospitals will even admit you.

From age 51 to 63 (if in Thailand all those years), if one has chosen not to purchase health insurance, the accumulated savings would be about 5-600,000 baht. That doesn't go very far for medical treatment for one's years 63 to whenever even in LOS.

Not the way I have chosen to live.

Slightly more I think!

BUPA premiums when I stopped paying were £2,500 per year. So with annual cost increases of say 5% per year over 12 years, that brings the total to £40,000, which when invested at 5% per year compounded brings it to £72,000 or THB 3,528,000 (at 49 per Pound). Regardless, the game is already won since in two years I reach age 65 and will be entitled to free NHS care, should I so choose, regardless of my residency. But to be honest the financial side of my retirement continues to be strong hence I would be prepared to remain here and pay for treatment as needed, my initial cost model assumed I would take a substantial hit of 500k baht at some point, even if I do I will continue to be in pocket through not paying premiums.

Edited January 26, 2013 by chiang mai

[candypants]

I get free medical insurance because my wife has a decent job. AIA is all I can read on the card the rest is in Thai I double checked to make sure it wasn't AXA

We have Life we don't need at this point as well.

I have an unbrella policy that protects me from civil lawsuits for most everything but drunk driving.

"free medical insurance"

vague much?

1 million baht, 1 million us?

repatriation?

[JLCrab]

What can I say CM: You choose to live your life your way. Lots of smart & wealthy people would not agree with you. Besides, you had a heart attack and bypass surgery before the age of 62 so I don't see how you have won already won anything

[chiang mai]

What can I say CM: You choose to live your life your way. Lots of smart & wealthy people would not agree with you. Besides, you had a heart attack and bypass surgery before the age of 62 so I don't see how you have won already won anything

No, wrong yet again, I had a blockage in my right cornonary artery which was detected during a routine health exam, I made the decision thereafter to treat the problem by having a PCI (balloon and stent). So, no heart attack, no open heart surgery, just preventative maintenance.

Edited January 27, 2013 by chiang mai

[JLCrab]

I am just so wrong. Blockage before age 63?

[chiang mai]

I am just so wrong. Blockage before age 63?

CAD strikes people of almost any age although 53 for a male seems optimum in the West - many will die from it because they had no idea they were sufferers. I count my self as extremely fortunate that the problem was deteced and resolved in the early stages and in a non-life threatening manner. The experience also gave me the opportunity to redirect my lifestyle, I stopped smoking, began eating every meal far more sensibly, joined a gym and got exercise on a regular basis and so on, as a result the condition of my cardiac system is a known entity and I've removed most of the major risks to it. So yes I am well ahead of the pack in the health stakes on this point, if for no other reason that I am not doing what most are doing and ignoring the problem.

[JLCrab]

Good that you changed your lifestyle. You are also ahead of the game because at least for those years you went uninsured, you had no major malady that you could not cover out of your own pocket. Hopefully until you get your NHS coverage (on which as a Yank I cannot comment) that will remain the same. In fact, your calculations probably are applicable to anyone who does not experience a catastrophic illness while un-insured.

However, everyone who at their own option goes uninsured and DOES suffer a catastrophic illness probably thought the same. The analysis for many is not whether you come out ahead by not purchasing insurance based on services rendered vs. avoided premiums,. It comes from being able to stay away from that crap table.

Edited January 27, 2013 by JLCrab

[chiang mai]

I think the difference between us is not the desire or willingness to gamble but where we come from. As an Amercian you have been used to buying health insurance since day one and there has never really been an alternative. Brits however are the opposite, we have a national health service which provides free medical care to all citizens and buying health insurance was very much the exception although the practice is becomming more common place.

[JLCrab]

Well now you have lost me completely. I thought this whole topic is for persons living in Thailand. From the NHS website:

The NHS is a residence-based healthcare system. Therefore, once you have moved permanently away from the UK you are no longer entitled to medical treatment under normal NHS rules.

And you quote pound rates for your insurance when you actually bought insurance I presume in the UK; I was quoting rates in baht when purchased here in Thailand.

In USA, most people actually do not purchase insurance; they get it for themselves and their families through their employment. Only persons who are not eligible for group care purchase individual policies and those are very strict as to medical underwriting; the group policies have no medical underwriting.

So again, my examples are what may make sense for someone living permanently here in Thailand.

Edited January 27, 2013 by JLCrab

[chiang mai]

Well now you have lost me completely. I thought this whole topic is for persons living in Thailand. From the NHS website:

The NHS is a residence-based healthcare system. Therefore, once you have moved permanently away from the UK you are no longer entitled to medical treatment under normal NHS rules.

And you quote pound rates for your insurance when you actually bought insurance I presume in the UK; I was quoting rates in baht when purchased here in Thailand.

In USA, most people actually do not purchase insurance; they get it for themselves and their families through their employment. Only persons who are not eligible for group care purchase individual policies and those are very strict as to medical underwriting; the group policies have no medical underwriting.

So again, my examples are what may make sense for someone living permanently here in Thailand.

Re. NHS: Yes, except that after age 65 (or offcial retirement date, which varies now) residency is no longer an issue.

Re. Rates: Sure there are cheaper forms of health insurance to be had, I was simply supplying costs based on what I used to pay with BUPA.

Re. US Insurance: Whether an individual pays for it themself or recieves it as part of their remuneration package makes no difference, it is still insurance and there is no free alternative.

Re. Whilst I am a Brit I have lived in Thailand for the past ten years albeit I stopped buying health insurance whilst still UK resident.