Bar Closing Midnight From 1st March

[digibum]

You keep hearing over and over on threads that the government wants to change the image of Thailand from sex tourism capital of the world to [insert something else here]. But, it's not like Thailand is the only country with prostitution. More than half of Europe has legal or semi-legal prostitution. Go to Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam, etc. and you find large districts devoted to legalized prostitution. There's legalized or semi-legalized prostitution in Latin America and the Caribbean. So why is Thailand the sex tourism capital of the world? Well, part of it has to do with the 10 and 12 year olds that used to practice the trade and attracted some of the worst elements on the globe. But another major part of it has to do with the complete failure of the government to sell the country as anything but a sex tourism destination.

If I told someone that I was going to Costa Rica they would ask if I was going to the rain forest or if perhaps if I was going to scuba dive. But Costa Rica has a huge prostitution industry. They just sell the rest of the country much better.

In a lot of ways Thailand is like Las Vegas. Twenty years ago if you told someone you were going to Vegas they knew you were going to do some gambling, partying, and perhaps even to take in some of the local legalized prostitution. ###### the town has nicknames like "Sin City" and "Vice City." Now, the place is like Disneyland. The gambling is still there. The partying is still there. The legalized prostitution is still there. So what's changed? They created reasons for people to come to Vegas for something other than that. They have excellent golf courses, amusement park like hotels, shows for audiences of all ages, arcades, shopping, etc., etc. Thailand has none of that. The government thinks that if they squash the sex tourism and partying that it will make Thailand more attractive for "more desireable" toursits. Unfortunately, that's wrong! All it will do is kill the existing tourism industry. It does nothing to make Thailand more attractive to some Westerner planning a vacation. Phuket has one of the top ten best ranked beaches in the world. You would never know it though because they've never even heard of Phuket. They know Bali. They know Hawaii. They know The Bahamas.

In fact, Thailand should do something like they have in Nassau, The Bahamas. They have a huge hotel and casino that's like a mini amusement park. You can go down five story high water slides, pet stingrays, and even watch them feed sharks in their massive aquarium. Where is Thailand's Paradise Island Hotel and Casino? It seems like the Thai government wants all the advantages of a healthy tourism industry without making any of the sacrafices like . . . paying to build things people want to come see and being hospitible enough for private investors to want to come and risk spending the kind of money it takes to make these things real.

[ovenman]

You keep hearing over and over on threads that the government wants to change the image of Thailand from sex tourism capital of the world to [insert something else here].

Well, it would have to be the hub of [something else], wouldn't it?

[Maverick]

Take a closer look at this gift from cabinet. Less tourists will be welcome for ex-pats living here. The farangs left will be appreciated that much more.Prices on everything will go down. Economy should take a bit of a dive and all should be happy. Bring on the 50 to 1, 97 baht. Remember we are only guests here and what they do with there country is there business. Other countries in the region could use the tourist $$ that Thailand doesn't want. These beer drinking sex tourists only push up prices. Don't worry about the supply, some of those cute waitresses put out of work in the bar will be forced to look for other well paying jobs. Beer prices might even go down with demand. I'll drink to that!

Ajanlu has a good point - there is always an upside and the smart people will take any advantages this decision brings. Less tourists (as the news filters back) equals more space in bars/clubs, less competition and perhaps cheaper prices. Good time to pick up a bar as well if your looking with prices deflating over next year months as the curbs take effect. I think - get used to it as they wont repeal this any time soon and go with the flow (or go and live/party in Singapore with bars open till 4am plus plus). Or Vietnam etc etc.

[udon]

markoinbangkok ........ I couldn't agree more.

[udon]

I think I'd be very pissed off if I'd signed a long lease for one of the new bars opening soon on the LHS of soi 33, (opp. the Office Bar side soi)

[rbrb]

Mid-night closing and Pattaya.

According to a report in the newspaper "Pattaya Today", Volume 3 Issue 10,

"Provisional entertainment zones have been published by city hall. These reveal there will be three permitted zones which run from soi 18 in Naklau to the Bali Hai Pier in south pattaya. The boundary is basically Third Road. From there to the beach, fun spots will generally be permitted".

So my reading of this suggests that most of the popular places for tourists in Pattaya will be unaffected by the new closing times.

Any one got other views?

[WISteve]

Sorry to ask the obvious, but what is the REAL underlying purpose of this by TRT? Lord knows they don't take a dump without a good reason, ie. monetary purpose. I've thought about this over the evening and think of only a few possibilities:

1) Legitimate moral concerns of the Thai youth? ( Yeah, you bet!)

2) Driving out the falang owners of the bars so their own buddies can pick up the properties on the cheap?

3) Simply pocketing the under the table short-term money for designating their friends/cousins real estate as in a designated "zone"?

4) Flushing out the "sex tourist" trade in the short term before they open the inevitable gambling casinos run by their relatives?

There must be some logic to their seemingly irrational behavior, right? Or is it just a brash florish of power to cover for all the face lost when they were caught in the avian flu lies?

As an aside to the presumptions that prices/attitudes will somehow improve with fewer tourist: don't count on it! What did many of the Nana Go-Go's do in the face of the drop in tourist numbers last spring with the SARS scare? They raised prices, of course! Normal market rules don't apply. Greed almost always does.

So who's pocket is getting lined with this little fiasco?

I'm clueless......?

-- Steve

[robsamui]

Although this topic has been on the cards for a while now, I can't help thinking that the Avian Flu farce has a lot to do with the sudden announcement.

Having lost massive face because of the complete mess-up (on Sunday the BKK Post reported a poll with 50% public confidence in Mr T ) I feel the blustering autocrat has decided to get some votes back quick.

Any bets that all the Thai TV and Thai newspapers in the next few days will be full of glowing reports on how the government continues its successful campaign to restore the purity of the nation and save the Kingdom's young from alien pollution.

ps. A few months ago the Government was talking about legailising and registering prostitution and taxing the earnings of the registered millions. I wonder how long it will take before we see specially government licenced "entertainment" areas full of working girls and staying open all night??

Robsamui

[12call]

My little restaurant is opening on New Phetburi Road soon so I should be able to stay open until 2am.Will wait and see though.

[andreasbkk]

By the way, my co-workers said that teenagers under 18 yrs no longer are allowed to walk (alone) on the street after 22.00 hrs??? Is that right? Does that include farang teenagers?

By the way, the meeting places for the bar and go-go girls will be available 00.00 hrs already, so there will be lots of cheap fun for farangs knowing that places.

But, if the gov't really wants to care about the prostitutes, it should keep the girls inside instead on send them out on the street.

Anyway, the girls are working 7 days a week and now they get a change for some more spare time.

Cheers,

Andrew

[samran]

The government are idiots. But we have all known that for quite a while. Not much one can do when dear leader has the deepest pockets in the land to buy votes though.

The thing to remember is the law is truely unworkable. The short term pain and confusion this will cause is unfair. Expect there to be exemptions later though, once big hotel nightclubs, "hi-so hangouts" legit bars and other non-bar girl orientated pubs start pounding on the PM's door.

[Maverick]

I think I'd be very pissed off if I'd signed a long lease for one of the new bars opening soon on the LHS of soi 33, (opp. the Office Bar side soi)

Udon

I cant see any new bars on the left (as you go up from Sukhumvit end) with The Office on the right. I do however see a lot of building work on The Office side and some new bars up the side soi's on the right. Have u got your left and rights mixed up. If not I will look out for them.

[FrankSolo]

After the postponement of the final decision last month, most of us had thought that the current hours won't be changed...alas, we were wrong.

Some questions though :

1. OPENING hours have NOT been changed, have they ? There had been talk of having all the venues to open at 6 pm, instead of 1 pm.

2. How about 'restaurant' type of places (those with no music) outside the zones ? As we know, there are so many of those, most of them outdoors. I hope at least they will be permitted to stay open till 2 am.

3. Snooker clubs ?

4. There has been no change to the hours for selling/serving alcohol, right ? I mean one can still get beer from 7-11 after midnight or one can still get beer at a restaurant after midnight, right ? I am asking this because somewhere I read about someone going to a 7-11 and being told that he cannot purchase beer, as it is past midnight.

Assuming the opening hours have not been changed, I feel that the owners will have their venues (yes, even the dance clubs) open at a much earlier hour. But for instance, how many customers will feel like going to a danceclub around, say, 7 or even 8 pm ?

For drinkers and bar/pub-goers, they will simply start drinking 1-2 hours earlier. Of course for people who work, till, say, 6-6.30 pm, they might have to start immediately after work !

Whatever the answers to the above questions are, the 'easy-going' and 'fun' atmosphere of the nightlife will certainly be ruined. Sad

Regards,

Jem

I was denied buying a beer after midnight at 7-11 on Sukhumvit soi 23 yesterday, they even had brown paper covering the cooler.

[ZoiD]

heheh... If that post about pattaya is right, imagine what the place is going to be like in 1 years time, there'll be a mass migration!

[udon]

Have u got your left and rights mixed up.

Hi Maverick,

I don't think so, I have "L" on this hand, and "R" on the other.

Maybe the 14 vodkas got me a little confused last time I was down that way.

[sabaijai]

What's so hypocritical is the way they say the midnight closing is necessary to keep Thai kids from drinking. Yet they designate RCA as a place that can stay open till 2am ...

And how does the Thai cabinet get away creating new national laws? I thought that only the democratically elected National Assembly had that privilege?

[freddy]

For those people who don't live in the 'designated zones' but who have noisy karaoke bars, discos etc. nearby, presently keeping them awake half the night, this new law SHOULD bring them relief.

[samran]

And how does the Thai cabinet get away creating new national laws? I thought that only the democratically elected National Assembly had that privilege?

Technically these may be regulations, not laws. (I stand to be corrected though)

Dunno exactly how they divide it up, but there is a difference. Regulations are usually administrative things and most of the time are uncontroversial.

Regulations can be changed either by a municipality (eg BKK), the minister, or with cabinet approval, depending on the situation. If everything had to go through parliament, nothing would happen in this or any country.

If you ask my honest opinion, there are many technical decisions best left out of the hand of politicians and left up to independent tribunals or regulators. But Thai politicians love their little power trips, so thats why it will never happen.

[frodo]

What's so hypocritical is the way they say the midnight closing is necessary to keep Thai kids from drinking. Yet they designate RCA as a place that can stay open till 2am ...

I am very bewildered by that as well. RCA staying open. Nothing but kids there. I've had M2 kids talking about their nights at RCA. Somebody has some pull in the Gov't for that one. Makes no sense whatsoever.

[Dove]

I wonder if all civil servants are made to declare the ownership shares they or their spouses have in bars and entertainment places. This could help in enforcement somewhat. The goverment should make it an offence also to make a false declaration

[JemJem]

Regarding '2 am zones', I, myself, have never been a big fan of going at night to New Petburi or Ratchadapisek Rd. As for Patpong, I liked going there only in my first few years in Bangkok....now I go there just for Radio City or when I take some friends who are new to Thailand. By the way, talking about Radio City, I am sure they are DELIGHTED at this....they are one of the very few non go-go venues in Patpong and the place is already very popular and often full by 11 pm with mostly tourists and foreign residents. Now, also a lot of locals will be going there, as all the other venues (except Ratchada and N.Petburi) will be shut at 12. I expect the place to be packed every night from March 1. The owner and the staff there must be real happy.

I, myself, will start drinking early on my 'nights out'. Boy, even the term 'NIGHT out' will have a weird meaning from March 1.

I wish Sukhumvit Rd had been one of the '2 am zones'...well, it is a very long road so maybe from soi 1 to soi 71 would have been reasonable.

As I did before, I will ask again : No changes to the OPENING hours of places...right ?

Regards,

Jem

[ayakiawe]

KOH SAMUI??? What "ZONE" is it IN PLEASE, anyone know?

[george]

Update:

Thailand to shorten nightlife hours

BANGKOK: - Thailand's lively nightlife and its notorious sex industry, ordered to shut earlier in a clampdown on drugs last year, is to have opening hours curtailed even further.

The cabinet decision, which has the force of law, has enraged nightclub owners who say thousands of jobs will be threatened, and they plan protests to try to get the decree revoked.

"Millions of waiters and singers will lose their jobs and many will have to rob for a living," said Somyot Suthangkool, owner of a popular Bangkok nightclub and chairman of industry body with 50,000 members.

"Owners like us have to prepare to go bankrupt," he added.

Chuwit Kamolvisit, who owns six upscale massage parlours in Bangkok, said he would organise a Valentine's day protest on Saturday.

"I will bring my masseuses along," he told Reuters.

The decree is the latest move by Prime Minister Thaksin Sinawatra to fight crime -- particularly the drugs trade which he labelled a scourge of Thailand's youth.

This year, the aim is to get youth off the streets by 10 p.m. to prevent them from getting into trouble and to cut down the hours places of entertainment can operate, officials said on Wednesday.

Many of these are brothels masquerading as go-go bars, cocktail lounges, karaoke bars and massage parlours, a business to which police generally turn a blind eye, although they are widely accused of taking hefty bribes to keep it that way.

HOME BY TEN

From March 1, massage parlours -- now allowed to operate 12 hours a day and close by midnight, will be restricted to opening just eight hours a day -- although they can still close at the witching hour.

Discos, nightclubs, go-go bars and massage parlours in specially designated zones would be able to operate for seven hours a day. Some will be allowed to stay open until 1 a.m. and the rest must close by 2 a.m. the current limit, officials said.

Those outside the zones would be able to open only three to six hours a day and must shut their doors at midnight, they said.

"We agree there must be places for people to relax, but they must restricted, not just located next to schools or temples and give so much trouble to neighbourhoods," said Vichien Chavalit, an Interior Ministry official who helped draft the law.

From March 29, people under 18 will not be allowed on the streets without an adult after 10 p.m. as the cabinet decided to enforce a 1972 law passed by a military government and long ignored, officials said.

"This is a protective measure for children, deterring them from wandering outside their homes with no reason," Justice Minister Pongthep Thepkanja told reporters.

"If found by the police, their parents will be asked to pick them up. But for those who have a good reason to be away from home, they won't be in trouble."

The cabinet decided to enforce the law following a spate of teenage gang fights, gang rapes and murders of teenagers.

"This is thoughtless," said Wallop Tangkananurak, an independent who heads a Senate committee on family affairs.

"Only one million of 20 million youths might cause some trouble, but the government isn't supposed to pass a law to hurt all of them," he said.

--Reuters 2004-02-11

[george]

Phuket closing time: 01.00

Anger greets 1 am closing time

PATONG: From March 1, bars and entertainment venues on Phuket will have to close at 1 am, an hour earlier than they do at present.

The early closing edict was decided at a meeting of the Cabinet in Bangkok yesterday.

The decision effectively designates the entire island as one large entertainment zone, leaving people in the after-dark industry exasperated and angry at the national government’s move to curtail trading hours.

While Phuket escaped the midnight closure that will be enforced on some other parts of the country, Patong Entertainment Business Association President Somphet Moosopon was dismayed.

He told the Gazette from Bangkok – where he had been lobbying against a change – “We have to do something. We will discuss this when I get back to Phuket tomorrow.”

One angry entertainment business owner told the Gazette today that the government’s move was a blow to the tourism industry.

“Closing at 2 am is already a pain for us. Closing at 1 am will bring slow death. It affects not only the entertainment business; it also affects hotels, motorcycle taxis, souvenir shops and so on,” he said.

“Why don’t they just close Patong down?

“I don’t understand the government. They have concluded that all parts of Thailand are the same, which is simply not the case.

“Patong is a place for foreigners – Thai students can’t afford Patong,” he said, referring to the stated aim of the earlier closing hour – to shield young Thai people from sin.

Wisut Romin, Deputy Chief of the Phuket Provincial Governmental Division, told the Gazette that officials will meet representatives of the entertainment industry soon.

“We have a plan to follow so that they understand government policy in Phuket,” he said, adding, “We know that they are not happy with this policy because it’s not good for their businesses.”

Meanwhile, the Cabinet is looking at another plan – to introduce a curfew for youngsters. The plan requires everyone under the age of 18 to stay at home after 10 pm unless accompanied by an adult.

--Phuket Gazette 2004-02-11

[Spellbound]

Just thinking out-loud

(1) Taksin pushes for Thailand to spend billions on new airport ---- Then Taksin and his family all of a sudden own a new "no frills airline"

(2) Taksin pushes through the 30 baht health scheme, hospitals suffer major losses - Taksin and his family buy millions of shares in hospitals, and then promotes Thai hospitals to the western world.

(3) Bird flu affects Thai chicken farmers, but he hides this fact as long as he can, so his family involvement can cut their losses. Then he states His government has put million/billions away for compensation. (FOR WHO ?)

(4) Taksin and his government issue a new law stating all entertainment venues will have new opening times, possible forcing many to go bankrupt.

(NOW IN THE FUTURE) I ask does he and his family / friends acquire all these cheap properties and then all of a sudden. (There is a reversal of opening times and laws)

Food for thought (MAYBE)

[samran]

Just thinking out-loud

(1) Taksin pushes for Thailand to spend billions on new airport ---- Then Taksin and his family all of a sudden own a new "no frills airline"

(2) Taksin pushes through the 30 baht health scheme, hospitals suffer major losses - Taksin and his family buy millions of shares in hospitals, and then promotes Thai hospitals to the western world.

(3) Bird flu affects Thai chicken farmers, but he hides this fact as long as he can, so his family involvement can cut their losses. Then he states His government has put million/billions away for compensation. (FOR WHO ?)

(4) Taksin and his government issue a new law stating all entertainment venues will have new opening times, possible forcing many to go bankrupt. 

(NOW IN THE FUTURE)  I ask does he and his family / friends acquire all these cheap properties and then all of a sudden. (There is a reversal of opening times and laws)

Food for thought (MAYBE)

Spot on spellbound.

Just an addition to (1) though.

Last October, dear leader announces new no frills airline, while government represtatives were doing the road show in London for the Thai Airways share selldown due to take place later this year.

Institutional investors push down IPO price range for Thai Airways, and dear leaders driver, maid and gardener get to by the shares a bit cheaper than they otherwise would have been. A comfy airline duopoly then follows, where he has ownership in both.

With regards to the new airport, the present BKK airport could have been renovated for a fraction of the cost of the new airport, and capacity could have been improved with better slot management and airport pricing.

[george]

Update:

NIGHTLIFE IN PERIL: Death Knell

BANGKOK: Bar owners yesterday predicted doom and gloom for the nightentertainment industry as a result of the strict new midnightclosing laws.

So harsh are the new closing times, set to come into effect on March 1, that all expect a crippling drop in revenues, while many said they would have to cut staff.

Operators outside designated entertainment zones were bracing for the worst; inside the designated zones, bars can stay open until 2am and pubs until 1am, but outside the zones, midnight closing is the new rule.

Massageparlour tycoon Chuwit Kamolvisit yesterday called on people affected by the new rule to gather for a demonstration at the Royal Plaza on Saturday evening. He said the operators should have been given at least a year to prepare for the changes, not just a few weeks.

The outspoken businessman also predicted more corruption as a result of the new rules. “Initially, strict enforcement is unavoidable but as time passes you can expect payoffs. I know this well; I have had the experience myself,” he said.

Somyos Suthangkoon, president of the Association of Entertainment Business Operators, said yesterday that with shorter hours, nightspots outside the designated zones were heading for extinction.

“We are preparing to go out of business. Owners like me can easily find new jobs but I have to take pity on the waiters, parking valets and taxi drivers who don’t have many choices. They may be forced to go into crime or prostitution,” he said.

Somyos said that only 10 per cent of Bangkok’s approximately 8,000 nightspots are located in the designated zones. Of all the entertainment venues in the city, only 3,000 have proper operating permits, he said.

One Bangkok bar owner, who requested anonymity, yesterday accused the government of doublecrossing operators in imposing the midnightclosing time.

He said business operators in the designated zones had expected longer opening hours while those elsewhere believed the current 2am closing time would have remained.

Janya Saipornchai, owner of the Krungthon Complex, which is not located in any of the city’s three designated zones, said she expected a negative effect from the new closing time.

“But it’s still too early to predict whether we will have to go out of business,” she said. “I’m still in the dark what to do next.”

Janya said the business operators were given only a short period to prepare for the new regulation. She ruled out the possibility of moving her business into a designated zone, saying that in view of the industry’s current situation it was difficult to secure bank loans.

She called for the designated entertainment zones to be expanded to cover the Thon Buri area, where many nightspots are located.

In Bangkok, the zones designated for entertainment venues cover the Patpong area, and New Phetchaburi and Ratchadaphisek roads. Inside the entertainment zones, nightclubs and bars can stay open until 2am, while pubs and discotheques must close at 1am.

Taifah Chayavoraprapa, a nightspot magnate on Khao San Road, which is not covered by the zoning plan, said the early closing time would be a setback for the tourism industry and damage the nation’s status as a magnet for international backpacker tourists.

“Even now when we have to close at 2am, the tourists ask me, ‘What for?’ I simply don’t know the answer,” he said, adding that the nightspot owners had no choice but to comply with the new constraints.

He said a decline in tourists might force him to open his restaurants and entertainment venues only on Fridays and Saturdays when there were usually more customers. He may also consider relocating his businesses to a neighbouring country that aspires to attract backpackers.

Pattanapong Ekvanich, president of the Association of Phuket Tourist Businesses, yesterday called for longer opening hours for entertainment venues in the designated zones, as the island province is a tourist attraction.

An owner of a bar near Phuket’s Patong beach said that most nightspots in the area cater to foreign tourists and that there have been very few problems involving young troublemakers. He was referring to the pretext put forward by the government that the midnight closing time would protect youths from vice.

Anek Nurak, president of the Surat Thani Tourism Association, expressed concern yesterday that the midnight closing time for most entertainment venues would lead to job losses for many workers in the industry and less revenue for the southern province, which relies heavily on tourist spending.

He foresaw a drop of 10 to 15 per cent in tourism revenue due to the midnight closing time.

A business operator on Koh Samui yesterday said the early closing time would drive away foreign tourists and weaken the island’s tourism industry, its major source of income. He said fullmoon parties alone contribute at least Bt100 million each month to the island’s economy.

He said islands such as Samui and Phangan should be exempted from the new closing time as their entertainment venues cater mostly to foreign tourists.

In Chiang Mai, Somkiat Saimai, who heads an association of restaurateurs and entertainmentbusiness operators in the northern province, said that local operators had started adapting themselves to cope with the changes. Some have offered discounts and others have cut costs to survive.

In a related development, senior Metropolitan Police officers met at the bureau headquarters yesterday to discuss plans to enforce the new closing times.

Metropolitan Police deputy commissioner Maj General Jetna Mongkolhathi, who chaired the meeting, told reporters afterwards that he foresaw no problem in enforcing the new closing times. Police would first focus on entertainment places outside of the designated zones, which must close by midnight, then enforce the new rules on venues inside the zones.

-The Nation 2004-02-12

[ajahnlau]

Previously posted a sarcastic view of the new laws and seems some high reeking officials from another board took it for what it was in print. My appoligies to the forum and members for trolling. Fact is it will affect local ex-pats more than others who think Thailand is only 100sqm around Suk 4 for 1 week a year. Everyone outside these zones will be living in a world regulated for the reasons we choose here rather than birth countries to spend our time and $$. There is hope though as bar assoc. across the country are forming to fight it. It's not cast in stone yet. If it gets cast and sends country down it should give a wake up in next election. Too many people will be affected for it not to.

[Kringle]

All of this just makes me think Thaksin just doesn't own any bars and that he's the biggest Mafia guy in Thailand and during the "crime wars" he just got rid of his competition. OK, maybe he's not MAFIA but he sure as ###### doesn't care about the the REAL people (the poor) that makeup at least 70% of this country.

[PD0NVJ]

So now we all have prove that eating chicken in public will damage your brains and that it is not reversable.

P.S House for sale half the costprice only 4 years old with everything in and around it (North Thailand).