Report Of Thai Support For C I A Torture Is Untrue: National Security Council

[Buchholz]

"It is totally untrue," the National Security Council's Secretary-General, Lt General Paradorn Pattanathabutr, said.

We've heard these denials before...

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has denied these reports.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Black_site

Despite being issued years apart, it's no wonder these denials sound familiar.... they were issued by "brothers" ...

Thai Cabinet reshuffle sees return of Thaksin loyalists

Other posts in the civil service and police have gone to Thaksin loyalists including Paradorn Pattanathabutr, who was made Secretary-General of the country's National Security Council and this month said Thaksin was "like a brother".

-- Reuters 2012-10-29

BANGKOK: -- Lt-General Paradorn Pattanatha-butr is seen by his critics as having won the position of National Security Council (NSC) Secretary-General because of his close ties with former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

[chiangmaikelly]

A shame for Thailand.....One more shame....

Yes, it may be a shame for Thailand, but in comparison it's 1,000 shames for the U.S.

Let's keep some perspective here.

If the thread was about the US I would agree. But it's in Thai news and it is about Thai support for the CIA. So I guess the perspective is correct.

[kruangfaifar]

Given that the US ran a secret war in Laos using the worlds largest (in number) airline from Udorn Thani this is no surprise. This approach if torturing. suspects and locking them up for years without charge or trial is closer to Naziism than democracy IMO .My money is on U-TAPAO for a location or that carrier off Sattahip

Edited February 7, 2013 by kruangfaifar

[OzMick]

"The report said Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded in Thailand 83 times."

Is this guy a liar or a fish? If he is immune to this form of coercion, why would you repeat the procedure 83 times?

[hellodolly]

[quote

]The National Security Council yesterday firmly dismissed a report that Thailand was involved in the US Central Intelligence Agency's secret detention and torture of suspected terrorists during the post-September 11, 2001 period.

We've heard these denials before...

In military terminology, a black site is a location at which an unacknowledged black project is conducted. Recently, the term has gained notoriety in describing secret prisons operated by the United States (U.S.) Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), generally outside of U.S. territory and legal jurisdiction.

In Thailand, the Voice of America relay station in Udon Thani was reported to be a black site. Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has denied these reports.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Black_site

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinwatra's government paved the way for the CIA's secret prison's establishment, first by refusing to ratify the previous Democrat Party-led administration's decision to sign onto the 1998 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), and second by granting a legal exemption and agreement not to extradite any US citizens who violated the Rome statute on Thai soil to an ICC signatory third country.

His government also, apparently on the US's urging, introduced terrorism-related charges into Thai criminal law. In quid pro quo fashion, Washington rewarded Bangkok in 2003 with the bilateral promise to negotiate a free trade agreement and upgraded Thailand to major non-North Atlantic Treaty Organization ally, which allows the Thai military to procure, sometimes at friendship prices, sensitive military technologies.

Yet the public revelations about CIA-led torture of terror suspects brought to Thailand cast a harsh new light on that special bilateral relationship and raises even harder questions about Thaksin’s motivations for allowing the US to violate Thai sovereignty. Those questions were first mooted after a CIA-led operation in August 2003 that led to the capture of alleged al-Qaeda operative and Indonesian national Riduan Isamuddin, also known as Hambali, on Thai soil.

http://www.atimes.co...a/JA25Ae01.html

.

The article stated

"Thailand hosted a secret CIA prison - where detainees were tortured. The Open Society Foundations attributed much of its findings to the International Committee for the Red Cross (ICRC), which interviewed 14 "high value detainees" in September 2006 after they were transferred from secret CIA detention to Guantanamo Bay."

Isn't that the same year Thaksin left government. No more Thaksin send the detainees away. The CIA was no longer protected.

[h90]

A shame for Thailand.....One more shame....

Yes, it may be a shame for Thailand, but in comparison it's 1,000 shames for the U.S.

Let's keep some perspective here.

No shame on Thailand....because no one expected better from USA and Bush made it pretty clear.

But many thought a lovely Buddhist country wouldn't support that.

[chiangmaikelly]

Given that the US ran a secret war in Laos using the worlds largest (in number) airline from Udorn Thani this is no surprise. This approach if torturing. suspects and locking them up for years without charge or trial is closer to Naziism than democracy IMO .My money is on U-TAPAO for a location or that carrier off Sattahip

You do know that the US was not alone in Thailand during the 1960's and 1970's. That carrier BTW is available for tours every weekend or at least was last year when I was there.

[chiangmaikelly]

A shame for Thailand.....One more shame....

Yes, it may be a shame for Thailand, but in comparison it's 1,000 shames for the U.S.

Let's keep some perspective here.

No shame on Thailand....because no one expected better from USA and Bush made it pretty clear.

But many thought a lovely Buddhist country wouldn't support that.

Who?

[Soi Sauce]

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

All unproven re accusations. How would you feel if it happened to your family and friends? .

[rubl]

Be fair chaps.

Thai will gladly and voluntarily submit to 24/7 shoutcasts if Som Tam and Lao Khao is provided to go with it. Others may find that type of harassment a clear violation of the Universal Right of Humans.

[hellodolly]

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

All unproven re accusations. How would you feel if it happened to your family and friends? .

A hell of a lot better than if they died because of terrorist information being held back by killing Terrorists.

Besides I have more morals than that to say what they are doing is OK and you have no rite to get the information from them.

[FarangTalk]

Given that the US ran a secret war in Laos using the worlds largest (in number) airline from Udorn Thani this is no surprise. This approach if torturing. suspects and locking them up for years without charge or trial is closer to Naziism than democracy IMO .My money is on U-TAPAO for a location or that carrier off Sattahip

You do know that the US was not alone in Thailand during the 1960's and 1970's. That carrier BTW is available for tours every weekend or at least was last year when I was there.

I thought tours of that rusting barnacle magnet were only open for Thais. Foreigners not allowed.

[71Cuda]

Yes ! Yes ! These scumbags deserve everything they get.

The Geneva convention is obsolete. Let us get serious with our war on terror! The New World WILL be a SAFE place.

Let's waterboard everyone annually to extract "dangerous secrets". Microchip all humans(except those with assets in excess of USD100 Million) and record in realtime GPS and biological data in their "Lifefile". (Removal of chip will release a lethal toxin). All world citizens must report monthly to their designated CCS "conduct control station". Anyone whose Microchip has recorded misconduct such as consumption of alcohol, tobacco,drugs,excessive calories or ludeness will be catagorized as "worthless eaters" and eliminated.

For the first time OUR technology can guarantee ORDER .We must implement FULL control over society. After all it's for the safety of all "Good Citizens".

Edited February 7, 2013 by 71Cuda

[chiangmaikelly]

Given that the US ran a secret war in Laos using the worlds largest (in number) airline from Udorn Thani this is no surprise. This approach if torturing. suspects and locking them up for years without charge or trial is closer to Naziism than democracy IMO .My money is on U-TAPAO for a location or that carrier off Sattahip

You do know that the US was not alone in Thailand during the 1960's and 1970's. That carrier BTW is available for tours every weekend or at least was last year when I was there.

I thought tours of that rusting barnacle magnet were only open for Thais. Foreigners not allowed.

As far as I know, any Asian or a person who looks Asian. Eskimos could probably get in. Thais can't tell the difference between most Asians you know. Incas could probably make it and a lot of Mexicans. My only point was; not a good place to have people screaming or carrying on ..... I didn't see any rust or barnacles did you? Or did you just say that because you don't like things Thai?

Edited February 8, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[BradinAsia]

"These scumbags deserve everything they get."

And how will you decide who the scumbags are?

Based on their nationality? Their appearance?

Based on the fact that someone sold them to the

CIA, like the guy arrested on the street in Italy?

Is this the kind of gestapo tactics you support?

[BradinAsia]

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

before proven guilty?

IF YOU BACK JUSTICE, WATERBOARD THE BUGGERY PAIR, BLAIR AND BUSH.

Most successful terrorists ever. Well, for theirs and their mates pockets.

How about including that scum-bag Cheney, the author of evil.

[FarangTalk]

As far as I know, any Asian or a person who looks Asian. Eskimos could probably get in. Thais can't tell the difference between most Asians you know. Incas could probably make it and a lot of Mexicans. My only point was; not a good place to have people screaming or carrying on ..... I didn't see any rust or barnacles did you? Or did you just say that because you don't like things Thai?

Unfortunately the racist or nationalist policy prevents me from visiting HTMS Chakri Naruebet (why do these countries follow the British nomenclature of naval vessels? Don't answer, it is a rhetorical question), however it's bound to have rust and barnacles on it, it is a steel hulled ship. Don't be so precious sweetheart.

If I was to be really critical of it I would question Thailand's necessity for an aircraft carrier, especially as they do not have any aircraft to use on it and it does not fill the role it was intended for (I'm thinking second hand submarines, airships and other assorted wastes of taxpayers' money).

Back on topic, the Thais have been assisting the Americans since the end of WWII, and were lucky not to be punished for their role on the Axis side, and for war crimes committed on their soil. They escaped quite nicely while all the other Axis powers had to make reparations to the Allies, at the behest of the USA of course. They assisted the Americans in the American War in Vietnam, they assisted the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese in Cambodia, and they are closely allied to the American military and CIA even today.

It's a cosy relationship they share, bit of torture here and an Amity Treaty there.

[BradinAsia]

"The report said Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded in Thailand 83 times."

Is this guy a liar or a fish? If he is immune to this form of coercion, why would you repeat the procedure 83 times?

The waterboarding crew seemed to like 83. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in one month.

How evil for any government to do that to a human for any reason?

Edited February 9, 2013 by BradinAsia

[chiangmaikelly]

As far as I know, any Asian or a person who looks Asian. Eskimos could probably get in. Thais can't tell the difference between most Asians you know. Incas could probably make it and a lot of Mexicans. My only point was; not a good place to have people screaming or carrying on ..... I didn't see any rust or barnacles did you? Or did you just say that because you don't like things Thai?

Unfortunately the racist or nationalist policy prevents me from visiting HTMS Chakri Naruebet (why do these countries follow the British nomenclature of naval vessels? Don't answer, it is a rhetorical question), however it's bound to have rust and barnacles on it, it is a steel hulled ship. Don't be so precious sweetheart.

If I was to be really critical of it I would question Thailand's necessity for an aircraft carrier, especially as they do not have any aircraft to use on it and it does not fill the role it was intended for (I'm thinking second hand submarines, airships and other assorted wastes of taxpayers' money).

Back on topic, the Thais have been assisting the Americans since the end of WWII, and were lucky not to be punished for their role on the Axis side, and for war crimes committed on their soil. They escaped quite nicely while all the other Axis powers had to make reparations to the Allies, at the behest of the USA of course. They assisted the Americans in the American War in Vietnam, they assisted the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese in Cambodia, and they are closely allied to the American military and CIA even today.

It's a cosy relationship they share, bit of torture here and an Amity Treaty there.

You referred to an in service Thai naval vessel as a, " rusting barnacle magnet" (which it is not) and me as, "so precious sweetheart" (which I am not). Both of those statements are an insult. I don't know where you come from but I don't have further conversations with such people. When you can be polite and even slightly knowledgeable about the subject matter, perhaps we can converse again.

Edited February 9, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[Osiris]

If you want to be America's friend you have to be prepared to get your hands dirty.

And also maintain plausible deniability...

[tawonsri]

Where is popular former prison-guard 'Sargent Schulz' from 'Hogan's Heroes', to loudly declare, "I know nothing, nothing" ?

Oh, of course, he couldn't get a work-permit, for the alleged secret-prison on a Thai airbase, which was also denied by then-PM Thaksin, this story is indeed a long-runner, and Thailand doesn't cooperate-closely with longtime-ally the USA on security matters, nudge nudge wink wink !

Well, considering"torture" is illegal for anone inthe US government, but is regularly used by Thai authorities, this seems to be backward. Perhaps the problem is in the term 'torture' being misused or misunderstood.

"Torture is physical harm in an attempt to get someone to say what the torturer wants to hear. The Hanoi Hilton was famous for wiring arms together until they were pulled out of their sockets or beating until flesh was stripped from bone, or hanging people by their wrists for a couple of days. Torture is seldom completely successful, as most prisoners will say whatever is required to avoid torture.

On the other hand, fully authorized and legal 'enhanced interrogation', used by US authorities, produces no physical damage nor lasting harm and there is never a likelyhood of death - sleep deprivation, loud sounds, & waterboarding produce temporary mental trauma and subjects recover quickly.

Beg your pardon, but what are you on? "Torture is physical harm" ...

Yes, maybe - sometimes. But not always. Thats why the USA developped the so called "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" that where also used in those Thai Black Sites.

None of these news methods do a long time physical harm, so the torture cannot be proven by evidence. The US and its f... allies (UK & LOS too) used the new methods that are not primarily of physical harm, but aiming to achieve a very high level of psychological harm (sleep deprivation, water boarding, bringing a running power drill very close to your eyes presuming to drill out the eye, mock executions, and so on.)

Even thouse "new methods" do no physical damage, they always habe devastating long-term consequences for those that suffered from any kind of torture.

But reading your test I understand that you fully agree with the use of any torture - and this is a shocking. Still living in middle age or worked too long for any of those many US agencies?

Just for your information: Torture is illegal and banned by Geneva Convention.

[tawonsri]

"On the other hand, fully authorized and legal 'enhanced interrogation', used by US authorities, produces no physical damage nor lasting harm and there is never a likelyhood of death - sleep deprivation, loud sounds, & waterboarding produce temporary mental trauma and subjects recover quickly."

Maybe you helped to write George Bush's playbook on torture.

Sounds like the same kind of sleazy justification that GW used.

dam_n right, he must a good friend of GWB and T Bliar.

[mca]

Among them were Riduan Isamuddin, or Hambali, and Mohammed Nazir bin Lep, or Lillie

Weren't they Milli Vanilli? If so that'd be enough reason to waterboard 'em..

[tawonsri]

"The report said Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded in Thailand 83 times."

Is this guy a liar or a fish? If he is immune to this form of coercion, why would you repeat the procedure 83 times?

Sorry OzMick, nobody is immune against torture - at the end each on breaks.

Not physically, but in mind (forever). And some people may endure more than others .. Zubaydah was very strong, thats why the professional US- and/or Thai-Tortures applied the procedure again and again. Till he broke and told them something, anything. BTW, with Sheik OBK the did waterboarding almost 200 times ... imagine you undergo almost 200 mock executions?

Torture is illegeal and banned - anyway US, UK and others with the help of many depending countries use this middle age of interrogation again. Eventhough they are creating more problems than they resolve. Disgusting, completely disgusting!

[Osiris]

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

911 was a "false flag" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag So torture of foolish young men, who were sold a bill of goods, was just part of the wars operation against an unknown, unnamed foe, for the sake of money and the further limitation of rights of the American populous, and the world ultimately.

Do the research. Don't believe me. After the Kennedy assassination and Cointelpro was brought to public light and thereafter "911", books were written by figures of authority. In the case of Cointelpro, it was proven true by the men who broke into an FBI office and took files later released to the media. The behaviors in all of the cases are similar; get a man of honor to investigate and publish his findings. As a person who used to walk into the trade center regularly, I'll never believe the whitewash.

As for Thailand being in bed with a three letter agency or the USA, that's old news. Don Maung was the airport of choice...

Don't feel bad, there are many people who buy into whatever a government tells them. Thinking is difficult...

[tawonsri]

As far as I know, any Asian or a person who looks Asian. Eskimos could probably get in. Thais can't tell the difference between most Asians you know. Incas could probably make it and a lot of Mexicans. My only point was; not a good place to have people screaming or carrying on ..... I didn't see any rust or barnacles did you? Or did you just say that because you don't like things Thai?

Unfortunately the racist or nationalist policy prevents me from visiting HTMS Chakri Naruebet (why do these countries follow the British nomenclature of naval vessels? Don't answer, it is a rhetorical question), however it's bound to have rust and barnacles on it, it is a steel hulled ship. Don't be so precious sweetheart.

If I was to be really critical of it I would question Thailand's necessity for an aircraft carrier, especially as they do not have any aircraft to use on it and it does not fill the role it was intended for (I'm thinking second hand submarines, airships and other assorted wastes of taxpayers' money).

Back on topic, the Thais have been assisting the Americans since the end of WWII, and were lucky not to be punished for their role on the Axis side, and for war crimes committed on their soil. They escaped quite nicely while all the other Axis powers had to make reparations to the Allies, at the behest of the USA of course. They assisted the Americans in the American War in Vietnam, they assisted the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese in Cambodia, and they are closely allied to the American military and CIA even today.

It's a cosy relationship they share, bit of torture here and an Amity Treaty there.

Short but correct history of LOS relationship to other countries since WW2 - very well done!

"Thais have been assisting the Americans since the end of WWII, and were lucky not to be punished for their role on the Axis side, and for war crimes committed on their soil. They escaped quite nicely while all the other Axis powers had to make reparations to the Allies, at the behest of the USA of course. They assisted the Americans in the American War in Vietnam, they assisted the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese in Cambodia, and they are closely allied to the American military and CIA even today."

Nothing more to tell

[Osiris]

As far as I know, any Asian or a person who looks Asian. Eskimos could probably get in. Thais can't tell the difference between most Asians you know. Incas could probably make it and a lot of Mexicans. My only point was; not a good place to have people screaming or carrying on ..... I didn't see any rust or barnacles did you? Or did you just say that because you don't like things Thai?

Unfortunately the racist or nationalist policy prevents me from visiting HTMS Chakri Naruebet (why do these countries follow the British nomenclature of naval vessels? Don't answer, it is a rhetorical question), however it's bound to have rust and barnacles on it, it is a steel hulled ship. Don't be so precious sweetheart.

If I was to be really critical of it I would question Thailand's necessity for an aircraft carrier, especially as they do not have any aircraft to use on it and it does not fill the role it was intended for (I'm thinking second hand submarines, airships and other assorted wastes of taxpayers' money).

Back on topic, the Thais have been assisting the Americans since the end of WWII, and were lucky not to be punished for their role on the Axis side, and for war crimes committed on their soil. They escaped quite nicely while all the other Axis powers had to make reparations to the Allies, at the behest of the USA of course. They assisted the Americans in the American War in Vietnam, they assisted the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese in Cambodia, and they are closely allied to the American military and CIA even today.

It's a cosy relationship they share, bit of torture here and an Amity Treaty there.

Short but correct history of LOS relationship to other countries since WW2 - very well done!

"Thais have been assisting the Americans since the end of WWII, and were lucky not to be punished for their role on the Axis side, and for war crimes committed on their soil. They escaped quite nicely while all the other Axis powers had to make reparations to the Allies, at the behest of the USA of course. They assisted the Americans in the American War in Vietnam, they assisted the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese in Cambodia, and they are closely allied to the American military and CIA even today."

Nothing more to tell

yep!

[me313]

I think another name for this international cooperative effort is called The Trilateral Commission.

[chiangmaikelly]

I think another name for this international cooperative effort is called The Trilateral Commission.

http://www.trilateral.org/

I don't see torture in Thailand among the topics discussed.

[Thai at Heart]

Didn't this whole issue come up in wikileaks, that someone in the usa embassy asked whether he should destroy tapes of said "interrogations"?