Report of Thai support for CIA torture is untrue: NSC

The Nation

Council sec-gen wonders whether Soros had ulterior motive in claim.

BANGKOK: -- The National Security Council yesterday firmly dismissed a report that Thailand was involved in the US Central Intelligence Agency's secret detention and torture of suspected terrorists during the post-September 11, 2001 period.

Released by the Open Society Foundations, a George Soros organisation, the report identified 54 governments, including Thailand, as collaborators of the CIA.

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"It is totally untrue," the council's secretary-general, Lt General Paradorn Pattanathabutr, said.

He also hit back at Soros, a financier whose speculative attacks on the baht currency were blamed partially for Thailand's 1997 financial crisis.

Paradorn said he wondered whether Soros had an ulterior motive in raising the accusation against Thailand.

According to the report, Thailand hosted a secret CIA prison - where detainees were tortured. The Open Society Foundations attributed much of its findings to the International Committee for the Red Cross (ICRC), which interviewed 14 "high value detainees" in September 2006 after they were transferred from secret CIA detention to Guantanamo Bay.

Among them were Riduan Isamuddin, or Hambali, and Mohammed Nazir bin Lep, or Lillie.

Isamuddin told the ICRC that after being captured on August 14, 2003, in Thailand in a joint US-Thai operation, during his four to five day-long detention in Thailand, he was subjected to stress positions while blindfolded with a sack over his head, kept naked and deprived of solid food. He was later held in a CIA prison in Rabat, in Morocco, and then taken to Romania.

Bin Lep, who was arrested in Bangkok on August 11, 2003, alleged he was held naked for three to four days in Thailand and that he was denied any solid food during the very first days after his arrest.

Abd al Rahim al Nashiri and Abu Zubaydah were waterboarded in Thailand, according to the report by the Open Society Foundations. The report said Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded in Thailand 83 times.

The report said other individuals subjected to CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition operations in Thailand included Amin Mohammad Abdallah al Bakri, Saifullah Paracha, Abdullah al-Sadiq, and Fatima Bouchar. The extraordinary rendition referred to is defined as the transfer - without legal process - of a detainee to the custody of a foreign government for purposes of detention and interrogation.

Such practice, according to the report by the Open Society Foundations, is part of the CIA secret detention programme, which started in the wake of the terrorist attacks on the US in 2001.

-- The Nation 2013-02-07

Where is popular former prison-guard 'Sargent Schulz' from 'Hogan's Heroes', to loudly declare, "I know nothing, nothing" ?

Oh, of course, he couldn't get a work-permit, for the alleged secret-prison on a Thai airbase, which was also denied by then-PM Thaksin, this story is indeed a long-runner, and Thailand doesn't cooperate-closely with longtime-ally the USA on security matters, nudge nudge wink wink !

Where is popular former prison-guard 'Sargent Schulz' from 'Hogan's Heroes', to loudly declare, "I know nothing, nothing" ?

Oh, of course, he couldn't get a work-permit, for the alleged secret-prison on a Thai airbase, which was also denied by then-PM Thaksin, this story is indeed a long-runner, and Thailand doesn't cooperate-closely with longtime-ally the USA on security matters, nudge nudge wink wink !

How's this?

Little white lie again, maybe?

The National Security Council acting as terrorists!

A shame for Thailand.....One more shame....

Given that the Thai authorities have a long proven history of using torture, this isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

If you want to be America's friend you have to be prepared to get your hands dirty.

I like to consider my self a fact finder more than a conspiracy nut. People wake TFU. War on terrorism is nothing more than a war on a method. Terrorist can be anyone, anywhere by definition. What is the bigger picture? " I don't know what's worse, Governments who lie or Governments who think I'm stupid enough to believe their lies"

Thailand an America use worked jointly on military operations for years together, since the beginning of the Cold War America has been shoveling money here. Thailand has always done special things for America. This is not surprising in the least.

Since when are Thai people honest in their wheeling a and dealings??? Never as far as I can see

By the way, the PDF report that "most" sites failed to link can be found here:

http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/sites/default/files/globalizing-torture-20120205.pdf

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

Edited February 7, 201313 yr by Xonax

[quote

]The National Security Council yesterday firmly dismissed a report that Thailand was involved in the US Central Intelligence Agency's secret detention and torture of suspected terrorists during the post-September 11, 2001 period.

We've heard these denials before...

In military terminology, a black site is a location at which an unacknowledged black project is conducted. Recently, the term has gained notoriety in describing secret prisons operated by the United States (U.S.) Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), generally outside of U.S. territory and legal jurisdiction.

In Thailand, the Voice of America relay station in Udon Thani was reported to be a black site. Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has denied these reports.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Black_site

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Former prime minister Thaksin Shinwatra's government paved the way for the CIA's secret prison's establishment, first by refusing to ratify the previous Democrat Party-led administration's decision to sign onto the 1998 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), and second by granting a legal exemption and agreement not to extradite any US citizens who violated the Rome statute on Thai soil to an ICC signatory third country.

His government also, apparently on the US's urging, introduced terrorism-related charges into Thai criminal law. In quid pro quo fashion, Washington rewarded Bangkok in 2003 with the bilateral promise to negotiate a free trade agreement and upgraded Thailand to major non-North Atlantic Treaty Organization ally, which allows the Thai military to procure, sometimes at friendship prices, sensitive military technologies.

Yet the public revelations about CIA-led torture of terror suspects brought to Thailand cast a harsh new light on that special bilateral relationship and raises even harder questions about Thaksin’s motivations for allowing the US to violate Thai sovereignty. Those questions were first mooted after a CIA-led operation in August 2003 that led to the capture of alleged al-Qaeda operative and Indonesian national Riduan Isamuddin, also known as Hambali, on Thai soil.

http://www.atimes.co...a/JA25Ae01.html

.

58. Riduan isamuddin (Hambali), an Indonesian citizen and suspected Al Qaeda

member, was captured on August 14, 2003, in Thailand in a joint U.S.-Thai

operation. Isamuddin told the ICRC that during his four to five day long

detention in Thailand, he was subjected to stress positions while blindfolded

with a sack over his head, kept naked, and deprived of solid food.

136. Abu Zubaydah (Zayn al-Abidin Muhammad Husayn), a stateless Palestinian,

was reportedly seized from a house in Faisalabad, Pakistan on March 28, 2002,

by agents of the U.S. and Pakistan, and transferred to a CIA black site in Thailand and then another black site in Poland.

48. Thailand

Thailand hosted a secret CIA prison where detainees were tortured and also ap- prehended individuals subjected to secret detention and extraordinary rendition. It also allowed the use of its airspace and airports for CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition operations.

Thailand hosted a secret CIA prison outside Bangkok that was code-named “Cat’s Eye,” and located on a military base in the northeastern province of Udon Thani.1501 At least three “high value detainees”—Ramzi Bin al-Shibh, Abu Zubaydah, and Abd al Rahim al Nashiri—were detained and interrogated there.1502 (In a submission to a 2010 U.N. Joint Study on secret detention, the government of Thailand denied the existence of such a facility).1503 Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded in Thailand 83 times, and al Nashiri was also waterboarded there.1504 In November 2005, the CIA destroyed 92 videotapes recording the interrogations of these two detainees.1505

Court records show that at least one flight, registered as N85VM and operat- ed by Richmor Aviation (a company that operated CIA extraordinary rendition flights1506), landed in Thailand some time between August 12 and 15, 2003.1507 The timing of this flight coincided with the capture and possible transportation to secret detention of Riduan Isamuddin (Hambali), who was captured in Bangkok on August 11, 2003.1508 Thai authorities also assisted in the August 14, 2003, capture of Isamuddin in Thailand.1509 See the detainee list in Section IV.

FOREIGN GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION IN CIA SECRET DETENTION AND EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION112

Other individuals subjected to CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition op- erations in Thailand include Mohamad Farik bin Amin (Zubair), Amin Mohammad Abdallah al Bakri, Riduan Isamuddin (Hambali), Mohammed Nazir bin Lep, Saifullah Paracha, Abdullah al-Sadiq (Abdul Hakim Belhadj), and Fatima Bouchar. Mohamad Farik bin Amin (Zubair), a Malaysian national, was apprehended in Thailand on June 8, 2003, before ultimately being detained at Guantánamo Bay.1510 Amin Moham- mad Abdallah al Bakri, a Yemeni national, was seized in Bangkok in 2002 by U.S. or Thai intelligence agents before being secretly detained by the CIA.1511 Through- out 2003, his location was unknown. During 2003, Thai authorities confirmed to al- Bakri’s relatives that he had entered Thai territory, but denied knowledge of his loca- tion.1512 Riduan Isamuddin (Hambali), an Indonesian citizen, was captured on August 14, 2003, in Thailand in a joint U.S.-Thai operation.1513 Isamuddin told the ICRC that during his four to five day-long detention in Thailand, he was subjected to stress positions while blindfolded with a sack over his head, kept naked, and deprived of solid food.1514 Similarly, Mohammed Nazir bin Lep, a Malaysian national, was appre- hended on August 11, 2003, in Bangkok, Thailand.1515 Bin Lep alleged that he was held naked for three to four days while detained in Thailand and not provided any solid food until twelve days after his arrest.1516 He was also subsequently transferred to Guantánamo Bay.1517 In 2004, Thai authorities detained Libyan nationals Abu Abdullah al-Sadiq (Abdul Hakim Belhadj) and his wife Fatima Bouchar as they were transiting through Bangkok airport.1518 Al-Sadiq and his wife allege that they were ill-treated by persons they believed to be Thai and U.S. authorities.1519 They were ultimately extraordinarily rendered to Libya.1520 See the detainee list in Section IV.

There have been no known judicial cases or investigations in Thailand relating to its participation in CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition operations.

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

Torture is illegal and proven to be ineffective and produces more hostility to the torturer's nation.

Many of the people rendered for torture by USA were innocent of terrorism by their actions or associations.

You lack decency and humanity.

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

Torture is illegal and proven to be ineffective and produces more hostility to the torturer's nation.

Many of the people rendered for torture by USA were innocent of terrorism by their actions or associations.

You lack decency and humanity.

Quote: Paradorn said he wondered whether Soros had an ulterior motive in raising the accusation against Thailand.

Did he wonder if Soros had an ulterior motive against all 54 countries? Typical nationalistic reaction - 'we done nuffink wrong'. This is not the only group that has made this claim & the more these idiots protest the more they look like they are lying.

Wikileaks is needed more than ever to blow the cover on the whole thing and which governments allowed it.

Sure if Thailand, it's judiciary, its military or other hi-rakis are held accountable there is an ulterior motive. First there were no CIA detention centres either we know better. The Thai culture ministers all say that there is no prostitution in places like Pattaya either, they even inspect the place (at 08.30 am). The general rule is never to trust a Thai official, they have been vaccinated at birth against speaking the truth.

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

before proven guilty?

IF YOU BACK JUSTICE, WATERBOARD THE BUGGERY PAIR, BLAIR AND BUSH.

Most successful terrorists ever. Well, for theirs and their mates pockets.

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

Sorry, but I disagree, how would you propose to make amends to the ones who turned out to be innocent ?

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

Unfortunately there were a lot of men being captured and held illegally for years, though they were innocent. One of them lives in my hometown of Bremen: Murat Kurnaz. Therefore these inmates should had been given all rights according to the Geneva Convention.

First you have to find out who are the offenders and who are the innocents. Then you can go on with the detention according to the verdict.

Be happy, the CIA did not catch you, you most likely would have chosen other words for your comment.

These scumbags deserved every second of the alledged torture.

Unfortunately there were a lot of men being captured and held illegally for years, though they were innocent. One of them lives in my hometown of Bremen: Murat Kurnaz. Therefore these inmates should had been given all rights according to the Geneva Convention.

First you have to find out who are the offenders and who are the innocents. Then you can go on with the detention according to the verdict.

Be happy, the CIA did not catch you, you most likely would have chosen other words for your comment.

Totally agree. When an accused is not given a fair trial one never knows whether they were guilty or innocent.

It is interesting that Indonesia was able to try all it's accused terrorists in a civil court & obtain guilty verdicts for many of them.

USA rendition ops to Thailand for interigation via Udon and or Utapo is common knowledge among long term expats in Thailand as is the varascity of the Bill Lair legend of the PARU, the Hmong and the and &@n#.

Edited February 7, 201313 yr by indyuk

In this day and age of terrorism and indiscriminate killing of civilians and children and possibility of germ warfare, dirty bombs and god knows what else. I am willing to have a few poor innocent bastards get closer to their religion and suffer then the rest of the population that has clean hands!! That is reality, and although the politically correct bleeding hearts bowels get in an uproar, purge your calls about injustice with an enema of historic proportions. Kill em all and let God sort em out!!!

The Thaksin government of the time and the C.I.A.

Hardly the two most transparent entities in this world are they.

Cough, cough, bullshit.

When the world's largest terrorist organization TELLS you that they want to put a little shop of horrors in a Bangkok suburb, Somchai nods his head and says how can we help?

Where is popular former prison-guard 'Sargent Schulz' from 'Hogan's Heroes', to loudly declare, "I know nothing, nothing" ?

Oh, of course, he couldn't get a work-permit, for the alleged secret-prison on a Thai airbase, which was also denied by then-PM Thaksin, this story is indeed a long-runner, and Thailand doesn't cooperate-closely with longtime-ally the USA on security matters, nudge nudge wink wink !

Well, considering"torture" is illegal for anone inthe US government, but is regularly used by Thai authorities, this seems to be backward. Perhaps the problem is in the term 'torture' being misused or misunderstood.

Torture is physical harm in an attempt to get someone to say what the torturer wants to hear. The Hanoi Hilton was famous for wiring arms together until they were pulled out of their sockets or beating until flesh was stripped from bone, or hanging people by their wrists for a couple of days. Torture is seldom completely successful, as most prisoners will say whatever is required to avoid torture.

On the other hand, fully authorized and legal 'enhanced interrogation', used by US authorities, produces no physical damage nor lasting harm and there is never a likelyhood of death - sleep deprivation, loud sounds, & waterboarding produce temporary mental trauma and subjects recover quickly.

A shame for Thailand.....One more shame....

Yes, it may be a shame for Thailand, but in comparison it's 1,000 shames for the U.S.

Let's keep some perspective here.

"On the other hand, fully authorized and legal 'enhanced interrogation', used by US authorities, produces no physical damage nor lasting harm and there is never a likelyhood of death - sleep deprivation, loud sounds, & waterboarding produce temporary mental trauma and subjects recover quickly."

Maybe you helped to write George Bush's playbook on torture.

Sounds like the same kind of sleazy justification that GW used.

Well, i wouldn't expect them to say yes