Thailand Must Consider Legalised Gaming Soon, Tourism Forum Hears

[webfact]

Kingdom must consider legalised gaming soon, tourism forum hears

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- The nation's pre-eminent gathering of tourism and travel-industry experts has concluded that while Thailand looks headed for its best year ever for tourist numbers and revenues, action to legalise gaming, improve infrastructure and attract "quality" travellers is urgently needed ahead as establishment of the Asean Economic Community (AEC) nears.

More than 350 tourism-industry movers and shakers attended the Thailand Tourism Forum at the InterContinental Bangkok recently, voting on key issues facing the industry and setting alarm bells ringing about the country's long-term competitiveness in the region.

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Bill Barnett, co-organiser of the forum and managing director of C9 Hotelworks, said more than 60 per cent of respondents at the event who participated in the Thailand Tourism Index survey believed legal casinos would be an important factor in Thailand remaining competitive with other economic and tourism powers in the region.

"Thailand's tourism [industry] needs to study very carefully the issue of gaming and other demand generators to attain sustained volume growth," he said. "There is a very real risk of us slipping behind places like Singapore and Macau in terms of visibility, branding and revenues. Thailand is also facing a glut of hotel rooms, so we need big draw cards like casinos as key drivers of demand."

More than 80 per cent of those voting agreed that Thailand was now staring down the barrel of an oversupply of rooms and that urgent action was required.

Among them were keynote speakers at the forum and notables including Dillip Rajakarier of Minor Hotel Group, Chanin Donavanik of Dusit Hotels and Resorts, Peter Henley of Onyx Hospitality and Hotels, Robert Hecker of Horwath HTL, Paul Logan of InterContinental Hotels Group, Jonas Ogren of STR Global, David Keen of Quo Global and John Koldowski of the Pacific Asia Travel Association.

Barnett said the Thailand Tourism Forum was the country's first report card on the state of the industry and an opportunity to look beyond the numbers at how tourism performance can affect a country's entire economy.

The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) aims to welcome 24.5 million international visitors this year, after a 15-per-cent increase last year that earned the country more than Bt965 billion, up 24 per cent from 2011.

Among the top source countries for international visitors, China stays at the top, followed by Malaysia, Japan, Russia, South Korea, India, Laos, Australia, the United Kingdom and Singapore.

'ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM'

Barnett said mass tourism was the "elephant in the room".

"As Wall Street learned, nothing grows forever. Thailand needs to learn the lessons of a volatile trading environment and focus on developing stronger infrastructure and perhaps temper growth targets and create more healthy segmentation than simply more, more, more."

The AEC is undoubtedly a "game-changer", and will accelerate the impetus that has been building for a less divided Asean ever since the global financial crisis thrust Thailand and the region on to the world stage in 1997, he said.

"The AEC will only create a stronger fundamental for this going forward. Boosted by rising low-cost airline carriers and a growing middle class, we expect this trend to dominate the market during this decade."

The AEC comprises the economic integration of all 10 Asean member states by 2015, with the goals of creating a single market and production base.

More freedom of travel and likely single-issue visas for the entire Asean region also raises security issues for travellers and nations but is not a reason to be too pessimistic, Barnett said.

"The euro zone has effectively handled this for an extended time, and I believe with appropriate technology and increased cooperation between intelligence services and police in Asean, that risk can be mitigated. Ultimately the benefits far outweigh the downside."

Mike Batchelor, managing director of investment sales at Jones Lang LaSalle Hotels and Hospitality Group and a keynote speaker at the conference, said Bangkok was expected to replace Phuket as Thailand's hospitality-investment hot spot. The new real-estate investment trust law is likely to lead to an increase in property transactions, bolstered by increasing levels of international investment as global economies recover.

-- The Nation 2013-02-07

[Thailand]

Mt Thaksin and others were talking to the operators of Macau casinos in 2005 with a view to opening Thailand's first casino in the Chiang Mai province, one of Mr Thaksin's sisters attended the meeting.

The 2006 coup put an end to that.

I think we can safely assume that negotiations are on again. And it makes sense,Thailand is bleeding gambling money to every other country that surrounds it.

[GentlemanJim]

It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead.

[rucus7]

The only part of this article I find puzzling is the reference to the growing middle class. I sure don't see any growing middle class. Unless you call buying things you can't afford with your AEON card being middle class. Casinos would with a doubt make money for Thailand.

[apetley]

It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead.

To be honest I can't see how it would make it any worse than it is.

Illegal lottery, cards, police run casinos, state lottery etc. It is already here and has claimed it's victims.

[sjjmmi]

Will never happen controlled by the BIB

[LuckyLew]

Personally, means zero to me, casino's are boring and a waste of time

but I think they should legalize gambling for a few reasons

1- good for tourism - check macau and vegas

2- Will help Thalland achieve their goal of being #1 on most corrupt list

3- Will ensure poor people stay poor and votes can be bought for casino chips

4- Will attract more dubious people to Thailand and will bring all their dubious money with them

Than again ............. maybe ..............

[EyesWideOpen]

Do your research on Thailand. During his reign King Rama V took a trip to Europe, and saw casinos, among many other things. He decided that casinos were a really bad idea for Thailand , and that is why to this day there is not a legal casino. Casinos are still a bad idea for Thailand. Bet the police will be fighting tooth and nail to stop legal casinos.... :-) A bit of history. Link here.

http://www.chiangmai...ails.php?id=524

King Rama III, (1824-51), recognising Thais’ love of gambling, allowed legal gambling dens throughout the kingdom to generate tax revenue. By the late 19th century, many people were addicted to gambling, which led to increases in bankruptcy and crime. This influenced King Chulalongkorn (Rama V) (1868-1910), to outlaw gambling. In the mid 1940’s the government once again experimented with gambling legalisation for tax purposes. A decree was passed allowing casinos to be run by the Ministry of Finance office. There was one stipulation: only members of the wealthy class were to be admitted. The first casino opened south of Bangkok in the Pranburi District. The Ministers in charge ignored the governmental regulation and opened its doors to anyone wishing to chance their luck. Massive debt slavery and degeneration of social values resulted, causing the media and public to demand the closure of all casinos. The government obliged and they remain illegal today.

Edited February 7, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[Pimay1]

Personally, means zero to me, casino's are boring and a waste of time

but I think they should legalize gambling for a few reasons

1- good for tourism - check macau and vegas

2- Will help Thalland achieve their goal of being #1 on most corrupt list

3- Will ensure poor people stay poor and votes can be bought for casino chips

4- Will attract more dubious people to Thailand and will bring all their dubious money with them

Than again ............. maybe ..............

They could do the same as Singapore. Local citizens have to pay S$100 (US$80) a day or S$2,000 annually to enter the casinos. Foreigners enter free.

[ChrisY1]

Do your research on Thailand. During his reign King Rama V took a trip to Europe, and saw casinos among many other things. He decided that casinos were a really bad idea for Thailand , and that is why to this day there in not a legal casino. Casinos are a bad idea for Thailand. Bet the police will be fighting tooth and nail to stop legal casinos.... :-) A bit of history. Link here.

http://www.chiangmainews.com/indepth/details.php?id=524

King Rama III, (1824-51), recognising Thais’ love of gambling, allowed legal gambling dens throughout the kingdom to generate tax revenue. By the late 19th century, many people were addicted to gambling, which led to increases in bankruptcy and crime. This influenced King Chulalongkorn (Rama V) (1868-1910), to outlaw gambling. In the mid 1940’s the government once again experimented with gambling legalisation for tax purposes. A decree was passed allowing casinos to be run by the Ministry of Finance office. There was one stipulation: only members of the wealthy class were to be admitted. The first casino opened south of Bangkok in the Pranburi District. The Ministers in charge ignored the governmental regulation and opened its doors to anyone wishing to chance their luck. Massive debt slavery and degeneration of social values resulted, causing the media and public to demand the closure of all casinos. The government obliged and they remain illegal today.

Great post...thanks EWO

[Pib]

Mt Thaksin and others were talking to the operators of Macau casinos in 2005 with a view to opening Thailand's first casino in the Chiang Mai province, one of Mr Thaksin's sisters attended the meeting.

The 2006 coup put an end to that.

I think we can safely assume that negotiations are on again. And it makes sense,Thailand is bleeding gambling money to every other country that surrounds it.

Heck, Thailand is bleeding money to the government lottery scheme....but at least the bleeding stays within Thailand.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Pib

[rheinwiese]

A dream will come true for TS and cronies, and it will plunge many Thai's deeper and deeper in gambling debts.

As a previous poster said: the urge to gamble in this country is unbelievable.

[EyesWideOpen]

Mt Thaksin and others were talking to the operators of Macau casinos in 2005 with a view to opening Thailand's first casino in the Chiang Mai province, one of Mr Thaksin's sisters attended the meeting.

The 2006 coup put an end to that.

I think we can safely assume that negotiations are on again. And it makes sense,Thailand is bleeding gambling money to every other country that surrounds it.

No bleeding is occurring. The border casinos are owned by Thai police and army generals so the money comes right back inside the country before it is sent to Switzerland.......

[Thai at Heart]

More than 80 per cent of those voting agreed that Thailand was now staring down the barrel of an oversupply of rooms and that urgent action was required.

developing stronger infrastructure and perhaps temper growth targets and create more healthy segmentation than simply more, more, more

Forget the casino issue, I think these statements are the more telling statements of the article. There is NO segmentation in the resorts in Thailand, and it has created an unholy mess. To undo what has been done is going to be very difficult.

[uptheos]

What are the odds of gambling being legalised?

[dcutman]

There is no doubt that many Thai's have a serious problem with gambling. But does anyone think that making gambling legal would make that any worse?

Those that want to gamble are going to gamble. However making gambling legal and having legitimate casino's would bring in huge tax revenue that is presently not being collected (from illegal gambling) or from those individuals that cross the boarders to gamble.

From what I have heard and read, The Sands would be building immediately, if Thailand ever did legalize gambling and have managed to discourage those locals without the means to afford to lose in other Asian countries quite successfully.

[alstaxi]

What are the odds of gambling being legalised?

If the bib own the casino is it legal?

[monkeycountry]

It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead.

The only reason not to have casinos is because most thais think like you and have zero imagination. Easy ways to avoid what you describe:

1. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners to gamble. This would create lots of jobs for thais, and lots of tax revenue for the government, and not a single thai would lose any money.

2. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners and rich thais to gamble. Rich thais will gamble at casinos abroad anyway, so they might as well lose their money in thailand instead of abroad. At least this way part of the lost money will go to the Thai government as tax revenue, some of which will be redistributed to the poor, which should make everyone happy. Determining who is rich can easily be done by issuing a gambling license to rich thais based on an inspection of their assets, income, debt, taxes etc.

[Payboy]

talking to the operators of Macau casinos

Don't expect much from that considering most Macau casinos are controlled by Stanley Ho's consortium and how Hopewell was treated by the Thai Govt.

[rkidlad]

It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead.

The only reason not to have casinos is because most thais think like you and have zero imagination. Easy ways to avoid what you describe:

1. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners to gamble. This would create lots of jobs for thais, and lots of tax revenue for the government, and not a single thai would lose any money.

2. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners and rich thais to gamble. Rich thais will gamble at casinos abroad anyway, so they might as well lose their money in thailand instead of abroad. At least this way part of the lost money will go to the Thai government as tax revenue, some of which will be redistributed to the poor, which should make everyone happy. Determining who is rich can easily be done by issuing a gambling license to rich thais based on an inspection of their assets, income, debt, taxes etc.

And corruption of course. This is Thailand and you're talking about issuing licenses for the rich to gamble? How easy would it for some big poo yai to issue licenses to less wealthy Thais for a small cut and a greater revenue for 'their' casino.

Rife corruption means anything is possible.

[h90]

Mt Thaksin and others were talking to the operators of Macau casinos in 2005 with a view to opening Thailand's first casino in the Chiang Mai province, one of Mr Thaksin's sisters attended the meeting.

The 2006 coup put an end to that.

I think we can safely assume that negotiations are on again. And it makes sense,Thailand is bleeding gambling money to every other country that surrounds it.

Samak bought already the land on which a casino will stand.....

[monkeycountry]

It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead.

The only reason not to have casinos is because most thais think like you and have zero imagination. Easy ways to avoid what you describe:

1. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners to gamble. This would create lots of jobs for thais, and lots of tax revenue for the government, and not a single thai would lose any money.

2. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners and rich thais to gamble. Rich thais will gamble at casinos abroad anyway, so they might as well lose their money in thailand instead of abroad. At least this way part of the lost money will go to the Thai government as tax revenue, some of which will be redistributed to the poor, which should make everyone happy. Determining who is rich can easily be done by issuing a gambling license to rich thais based on an inspection of their assets, income, debt, taxes etc.

And corruption of course. This is Thailand and you're talking about issuing licenses for the rich to gamble? How easy would it for some big poo yai to issue licenses to less wealthy Thais for a small cut and a greater revenue for 'their' casino.

Rife corruption means anything is possible.

I agree corruption is rife, but some things are hard to come by, even for the rich. Take how hard (impossible) it is for a foreigner to get a Thai passport for example, no matter who you try to bribe. So depending on the setup, a license could be made equally hard to obtain. Anyway, if corruption is what stops it, then go with my suggested option #1, and only let foreigners gamble.

Edited February 7, 2013 by monkeycountry

[arthurwait]

It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead.

You don't think it is already ?

[prestburypark]

What are the odds of gambling being legalised?

I'll offer you 2/5

[rkidlad]

It will be the utter ruin of the people in this country. The urge to gamble is simply unbelievable. Stand by to pick up lots of cheap plots of land and houses if this goes ahead.

The only reason not to have casinos is because most thais think like you and have zero imagination. Easy ways to avoid what you describe:

1. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners to gamble. This would create lots of jobs for thais, and lots of tax revenue for the government, and not a single thai would lose any money.

2. Open casinos, but only allow foreigners and rich thais to gamble. Rich thais will gamble at casinos abroad anyway, so they might as well lose their money in thailand instead of abroad. At least this way part of the lost money will go to the Thai government as tax revenue, some of which will be redistributed to the poor, which should make everyone happy. Determining who is rich can easily be done by issuing a gambling license to rich thais based on an inspection of their assets, income, debt, taxes etc.

And corruption of course. This is Thailand and you're talking about issuing licenses for the rich to gamble? How easy would it for some big poo yai to issue licenses to less wealthy Thais for a small cut and a greater revenue for 'their' casino.

Rife corruption means anything is possible.

I agree corruption is rife, but some things are hard to come by, even for the rich. Take how hard (impossible) it is for a foreigner to get a Thai passport for example, no matter who you try to bribe. So depending on the setup, a license could be made equally hard to obtain. Anyway, if corruption is what stops it, then go with my suggested option #1, and only let foreigners gamble.

I could stick 200 Baht on red 27 for the missus. She gave me 200 Baht, I chose to stick it on a number and colour and won x amount of money. I decided to give my missus (by sheer coincidence) the same number as the winnings as a gift. You see where that might end up going.

Where you get a country with crippling corruption and heavy gambling addictions, you get a black market. The whole point of legalising it is to get rid of this black market. You would have to make it legal for everyone. Otherwise, keep it illegal. Either way, it's just different groups of people making large amounts of money. The poor don't factor in the profits at all. Well, they add to the profits.

This is just my opinion. Not saying it's anymore pertinent than yours.

Edited February 7, 2013 by rkidlad

[impulse]

The whole point of legalising it is to get rid of this black market. You would have to make it legal for everyone. ..... Either way, it's just different groups of people making large amounts of money.

I think you got it right in the second half of this excerpt.

[muttley]

More than 80 per cent of those voting agreed that Thailand was now staring down the barrel of an oversupply of rooms and that urgent action was required.

developing stronger infrastructure and perhaps temper growth targets and create more healthy segmentation than simply more, more, more

Forget the casino issue, I think these statements are the more telling statements of the article. There is NO segmentation in the resorts in Thailand, and it has created an unholy mess. To undo what has been done is going to be very difficult.

Agreed, maybe if some of the "More than 350 tourism-industry movers and shakers attended the Thailand Tourism Forum" had thought a bit harder and longer at sustainable growth of tourist resorts and dependant infrastructure instead of greed and profit maybe Thailand wouldn't be "staring down the barrel of an oversupply of rooms". And these same people now suggest a solution to their problems of empty hotel rooms would be to introduce legalized gambling coincidentally providing the largest chains of hotel operators with even more profits. How noble of them.

[hellodolly]

Mt Thaksin and others were talking to the operators of Macau casinos in 2005 with a view to opening Thailand's first casino in the Chiang Mai province, one of Mr Thaksin's sisters attended the meeting.

The 2006 coup put an end to that.

I think we can safely assume that negotiations are on again. And it makes sense,Thailand is bleeding gambling money to every other country that surrounds it.

Well this may be true but so what the number of tourists coming is still growing.

Besides that the Gambling will take money away from other businesses. The small man will be squeezed harder. Here in Chiang Mai the talk was that they were going to tear down a market in the Night Bazaar putting the vendors out of business and build a large gambling casino.

I do not deny that gambling will bring in more tourists but at what cost to the culture of Thailand and the small business men.

I for one do not think it is worth the supposed gain. I say supposed gain as it is strictly for big business.

Just my two satong's worth.

[KhunHehe]

Casinos in Thailand will bury casinos in Laos, Burma, and Cambodia just like Indian casinos in California rang the death knell for Las Vegas.

But gaming leads to poverty and despair. Casinos are not happy places.

But, then again, I don't think Chiang Mai is a very happy place anyway.

Edited February 7, 2013 by KhunHehe

[KhunHehe]

Mt Thaksin and others were talking to the operators of Macau casinos in 2005 with a view to opening Thailand's first casino in the Chiang Mai province, one of Mr Thaksin's sisters attended the meeting.

The 2006 coup put an end to that.

I think we can safely assume that negotiations are on again. And it makes sense,Thailand is bleeding gambling money to every other country that surrounds it.

Well this may be true but so what the number of tourists coming is still growing.

Besides that the Gambling will take money away from other businesses. The small man will be squeezed harder. Here in Chiang Mai the talk was that they were going to tear down a market in the Night Bazaar putting the vendors out of business and build a large gambling casino.

I do not deny that gambling will bring in more tourists but at what cost to the culture of Thailand and the small business men.

I for one do not think it is worth the supposed gain. I say supposed gain as it is strictly for big business.

Just my two satong's worth.

Casinos will only help the small business men--filling hotels and prompting tourists (and local Thais) to reconsider going to Macau, Laos, Singapore, Cambodia, and Burma casinos. When I was in Macau, there were many Thai on the ferry back to Hong Kong.