Land Bought During Marriage: If Why Passes First, What Legal Right Does Foreign Husband Have?

[frankphuket]

Tried to find something, but wasn't really successful.

We are happily and legally married and have just bought some land here as well, of course in her name. (I am not scared, as we are married since over 10 years and she is fantastic).

Now i had the strange thought of what happens if she passes away before me.

The land is in her name and even if it is in her will that i shall get the land, how can this be handled as I as foreigner do not have the right to own the land.

Could I after her passing transfer the land to my kids from my first marriage (therefore not possible to have the land in their name now)? Is it possible, as again I am in doubt that I can legally do anything with the land?

sorry, if this has been discussed already, i am sure it has. if so, would someone kindly direct me to the right thread?

many thanks

[frankphuket]

buggar...my apologies for the 'strange' title: it should be Wife of course not Why!

[Pormax]

Not sure but I think on a previous thread I read you can keep the land for a period of time (I think 12 months) then you must sell.

Hopefully those with more knowledge will advise.

[ThailandInvestmentGuide]

Hi Frank. Yes quite a few prior threads on Thai Wills and wifes, and on transferring land to minors. Though you are not going to have much joy trying a forum search on the word "will" However if you scroll down through just the topics in the front page of this sub-forum, then you will find a most useful discussion on the first topic ... can't recall the name of the thread though.

If she has a valid Thai Will, and if she leaves you the land, then you have a year to transfer it to a Thai citizen. Can you transfer it to your kid/s? Generally yes if they are Thai citizens, and you can arrange to have yourself appointed as guardian. This process is mentioned in the discussion thread mentioned above.

PS: Here is one relevant discussion (see post #47) http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/611955-paying-for-land-1pm-today/page__st__25#entry6067121

Edited February 8, 2013 by ThailandInvestmentGuide

[givenall]

according to the law the parents have the biggest share of inheritance, not the husband, so make a will and register it and make sure it will be transferred to you. if she pass away then is yours and you have to sell since you cant own land

[billd766]

according to the law the parents have the biggest share of inheritance, not the husband, so make a will and register it and make sure it will be transferred to you. if she pass away then is yours and you have to sell since you cant own land

That is not correct actually.

Thai inheritance laws

Under Thai inheritance laws, which apply when there is no will, this generally means that the assets will be distributed amongst the statutory heirs. Under section 1629 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand there are 6 classes of statutory heirs and they are entitled to inherit in the following order:

1. descendants
   
2. parents
   
3. brothers and sisters of full blood
   
4. brothers and sisters of half blood
   
5. grandparents
   
6. uncles and aunts
   
7. The surviving spouse is a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635 Civil and Commercial Code.
   

Wills, succession, inheritance law in Thailand.doc

[meatboy]

i and my wife have just had wills drawn up legaly by a lawyer and its all or most of what you want to know its in the banking forum under the heading making a will [how important].

[diddums]

according to the law the parents have the biggest share of inheritance, not the husband, so make a will and register it and make sure it will be transferred to you. if she pass away then is yours and you have to sell since you cant own land

That is not correct actually.

Thai inheritance laws

Under Thai inheritance laws, which apply when there is no will, this generally means that the assets will be distributed amongst the statutory heirs. Under section 1629 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand there are 6 classes of statutory heirs and they are entitled to inherit in the following order:

1. descendants
   
2. parents
   
3. brothers and sisters of full blood
   
4. brothers and sisters of half blood
   
5. grandparents
   
6. uncles and aunts
   
7. The surviving spouse is a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635 Civil and Commercial Code.
   

Wills, succession, inheritance law in Thailand.doc

When it says 'distributed amongst'....does this mean it is shared by any or all of these with the biggest % to those in line....or it all goes to kids and if no kids, then parents etc

[billd766]

according to the law the parents have the biggest share of inheritance, not the husband, so make a will and register it and make sure it will be transferred to you. if she pass away then is yours and you have to sell since you cant own land

That is not correct actually.

Thai inheritance laws

Under Thai inheritance laws, which apply when there is no will, this generally means that the assets will be distributed amongst the statutory heirs. Under section 1629 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand there are 6 classes of statutory heirs and they are entitled to inherit in the following order:

1. descendants
   
2. parents
   
3. brothers and sisters of full blood
   
4. brothers and sisters of half blood
   
5. grandparents
   
6. uncles and aunts
   
7. The surviving spouse is a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635 Civil and Commercial Code.
   

Wills, succession, inheritance law in Thailand.doc

When it says 'distributed amongst'....does this mean it is shared by any or all of these with the biggest % to those in line....or it all goes to kids and if no kids, then parents etc

As far as I understand it, it goes first to the descendants, if none then to the parents, if none then to 3, then 4, 5, 6 and then 7.

If you as a farang are the first in line then you have one year to sell the land and property, however, if you have young children and ensure that in your wife's will it goes to the children and you become the legal guardian as well as the father then you can live there until the child reaches legal age which I believe is 20 or 21 and they no longer need a guardian.

Always remember to be nice to your kids. You never know when you may need them.

[diddums]

according to the law the parents have the biggest share of inheritance, not the husband, so make a will and register it and make sure it will be transferred to you. if she pass away then is yours and you have to sell since you cant own land

That is not correct actually.

Thai inheritance laws

Under Thai inheritance laws, which apply when there is no will, this generally means that the assets will be distributed amongst the statutory heirs. Under section 1629 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand there are 6 classes of statutory heirs and they are entitled to inherit in the following order:

1. descendants
   
2. parents
   
3. brothers and sisters of full blood
   
4. brothers and sisters of half blood
   
5. grandparents
   
6. uncles and aunts
   
7. The surviving spouse is a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635 Civil and Commercial Code.
   

Wills, succession, inheritance law in Thailand.doc

When it says 'distributed amongst'....does this mean it is shared by any or all of these with the biggest % to those in line....or it all goes to kids and if no kids, then parents etc

As far as I understand it, it goes first to the descendants, if none then to the parents, if none then to 3, then 4, 5, 6 and then 7.

If you as a farang are the first in line then you have one year to sell the land and property, however, if you have young children and ensure that in your wife's will it goes to the children and you become the legal guardian as well as the father then you can live there until the child reaches legal age which I believe is 20 or 21 and they no longer need a guardian.

Always remember to be nice to your kids. You never know when you may need them.

But, according to what you said, if she did not have a will and we had kids...it should automatically go to the husband first, then could be transferred to the kids within that year.....or if not married....then it should go straight to the kids...without any issues of going any further to any other relatives.......

[TommoPhysicist]

When it says 'distributed amongst'....does this mean it is shared by any or all of these with the biggest % to those in line....or it all goes to kids and if no kids, then parents etc

With no will the list goes like this

50% to spouse, 50% split between children.

If no children the 50% for the children works it's way to the next number, ad infinitum.

Foreigner can inherit by will or by 50% rule ....... supposed to sell within 1 year, but they don't check.

If someone complains and forces a check, and you didn't sell in the given time, they just write and warn you, and give you extra time.

[oxymoron]

according to the law the parents have the biggest share of inheritance, not the husband, so make a will and register it and make sure it will be transferred to you. if she pass away then is yours and you have to sell since you cant own land

That is not correct actually.

Thai inheritance laws

Under Thai inheritance laws, which apply when there is no will, this generally means that the assets will be distributed amongst the statutory heirs. Under section 1629 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand there are 6 classes of statutory heirs and they are entitled to inherit in the following order:

1. descendants
   
2. parents
   
3. brothers and sisters of full blood
   
4. brothers and sisters of half blood
   
5. grandparents
   
6. uncles and aunts
   
7. The surviving spouse is a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635 Civil and Commercial Code.
   

Wills, succession, inheritance law in Thailand.doc

This might be the law but the Titles Office in Chiangmai does not see it this way.

My wife has land which she and her mother owned, both names on the chanote, well before she met me 30 years ago.

On her mothers death she went to have it put in her name alone, as she thought having both names meant it was "JOINTLY owned and as such became that of the sole survivor. This is the case in Australia where all our real property and land is held.

"No way" the Titles Office require a waivure affidavit from her grandmother and aunties before she can own it soley.

Now in the too hard basket, the kids can sort it in another 30-40 years time.

[TommoPhysicist]

This might be the law but the Titles Office in Chiangmai does not see it this way.

My wife has land which she and her mother owned, both names on the chanote, well before she met me 30 years ago.

On her mothers death she went to have it put in her name alone, as she thought having both names meant it was "JOINTLY owned and as such became that of the sole survivor. This is the case in Australia where all our real property and land is held.

"No way" the Titles Office require a waivure affidavit from her grandmother and aunties before she can own it soley.

Now in the too hard basket, the kids can sort it in another 30-40 years time.

You have misunderstood Thai law and Australian law.

Property can be held jointly either as “beneficial joint tenants” or “tenants in common”

Beneficial Joint ....... one dies the other then owns 100%.

In Common ........ one dies, their 50% is split using rules of inheritance.

I believe

Australia assumes Beneficial Joint, unless declared differently at time of purchase.

Thailand assumes In Common, unless declared differently on the Chanote.

The land office in Cm, have it right.

[Sophon]

This might be the law but the Titles Office in Chiangmai does not see it this way.

My wife has land which she and her mother owned, both names on the chanote, well before she met me 30 years ago.

On her mothers death she went to have it put in her name alone, as she thought having both names meant it was "JOINTLY owned and as such became that of the sole survivor. This is the case in Australia where all our real property and land is held.

"No way" the Titles Office require a waivure affidavit from her grandmother and aunties before she can own it soley.

Now in the too hard basket, the kids can sort it in another 30-40 years time.

You have misunderstood Thai law and Australian law.

Property can be held jointly either as “beneficial joint tenants” or “tenants in common”

Beneficial Joint ....... one dies the other then owns 100%.

In Common ........ one dies, their 50% is split using rules of inheritance.

I believe

Australia assumes Beneficial Joint, unless declared differently at time of purchase.

Thailand assumes In Common, unless declared differently on the Chanote.

The land office in Cm, have it right.

But the mothers part of the land would have to be split between the beneficiaries, which according to what you wrote earlier (assuming there was no will) would be to his wife as a descendant. So why would the grandmother and aunties have to approve the transfer of the land?

Or are you saying that if there is no husband, the descendant still only inherit 50% and the other half is distributed down the list to other family members?

Sophon

[diddums]

When it says 'distributed amongst'....does this mean it is shared by any or all of these with the biggest % to those in line....or it all goes to kids and if no kids, then parents etc

With no will the list goes like this

50% to spouse, 50% split between children.

If no children the 50% for the children works it's way to the next number, ad infinitum.

Foreigner can inherit by will or by 50% rule ....... supposed to sell within 1 year, but they don't check.

If someone complains and forces a check, and you didn't sell in the given time, they just write and warn you, and give you extra time.

And if not married....is it 100% to kids alone ....or ?

[oxymoron]

ThommoP, you are quite right.

Wife only child

Father died when she was 18

Land been in family for about 100years

Transfer from mother and father to mother and daughter no problem

Mother had a "will"

According to my Thai Lawyer educated in Oz there is no specific notation on the Chanote that its "tennants in common", so must be recorded in the land office as such.

Thank Buddah we took his advice which is the same as my Oz lawyer BTW that wills in reality are not worth the paper they are written on except as a source of income for them when challenged.

So all the land and houses I bought for my wife, in her mothers name, as then (25+ years ago) she was not allowed to own anything being married to a foreigner, we "bought" it all back from her mother in 2004 ( cancer just started) and paid full transfer taxes etc. Thanks to new Thai property law of 2000.

Previous plan was to rely on the inheritance act the then only legally safe way for a Thai woman married to a foreigner to obtain land then.

We have now just transfered it all to my stepson a Thai National, my "bib and braces approach" to ensuring it goes where I want and is protected against the TIT games.

If you want things to where you want them to be;

Own then jointly

Give them to who you want with legal instruments to retain some control

Have them in trusts administered by an independent party

Do not rely on a "will"

[TPI]

I'd like to thank you all for the civilized way in which this subject was discussed...cordial with perfect patience! Very informative and to the point.