Your Thai Family's History?

[apetley]

Wifeys grandparents on Dads side fled China during the Communist Revolution. Grandad must have liked Thailand as he took on another eight wives!

Wifes mum is ethnic Mon.

[apetley]

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Edited February 17, 2013 by apetley

[Bluetongue]

I asked my MIL who is 87, she knew about the Japanese but she never actually saw one up in the rice paddies around Nakhon Sawan. Around here folks remember US planes flying overhead and after hearing bombs going off, we are only a couple of kms from the Cambodian border. But to establish when exactly this was is difficult, we have had family members here for more than 40years and they can also recall more recently than the planes flying overhead, artillery coming from the Cambo side but its not clear if it was Vietnamese artillery pushing the Khmer Rouge out or one of the factions taking on the Thai. Unexploded shells are found occasionally in fields and I have seen UN vehicles from over the border belonging to some sort of mine clearance unit coming past on their way to town to do a bit of shopping. Lots of amputees amongst the Cambodian workers too. I'd like to find out more about it so I've added it to the gunner list.

[chiangmaikelly]

I have no intention to criticize your reaction, but I wonder whether there is a lot more detail and local circumstances which need to be known and understood in cases like this.

On a different angle, I am a Vietnam veteran. Nowadays I am a visiting lecturer at universities in both the North and the South (I don't teach history or similar).

In the North many of my local faculty colleagues are quite old, they are nice people and they have gone out of their way to be helpful and to take care of me, many times I've enjoyed a meal and a local 33 beer with them. Most speak perfect English.

History has been raised a couple of times, but more in the context of the rough road the country has been through and now working towards democracy* albeit a bumpy road - and none of it raised by me, but usually several others in the group have politely and quickly said 'let's focus on the future'. (*with 99% expressing a desire for democracy.)

I would never ask any of them their personal history or what role (if any) they played during the conflict. But my guess is that at least a sprinkling, probably more, were soldiers / young officers in the red machine.

On the other hand I know very well that the western machine present in Vietnam in the conflict did some pretty shocking things, blatant and hideous acts breaking all tenants of human rights.

It's history and I'm quite happy to stay with the future.

Sadly a war that didn't need to be fought, if the VC position had been understood better. The US administration thought they were keeping the Chinese out. The VC just wanted an independent Vietnam.

Operation Passage to Freedom was the term used by the United States Navy to describe its transportation in 1954–55 of 310,000 Vietnamese civilians, soldiers and non-Vietnamese members of the French Army from communist North Vietnam (the Democratic Republic of Vietnam) to South Vietnam (the State of Vietnam, later to become the Republic of Vietnam).

Between 600,000 and one million northerners moved south, while between 14,000 and 45,000 civilians and approximately 100,000 Viet Minh fighters moved in the opposite direction.

Didn't know about that did you? The whole conflict was far more complicated than you have stated. This is not the thread but your assertion about the VC is 100% in error. The VC had the chance to move North the vast majority of people in South Vietnam did not want to become North Vietnamese. There was a 300-day period of grace, ending on May 18, 1955, in which people could move freely between the two Vietnams before the border was sealed.

Actually both my reply and Mosha's post are off topic but part of the reason many Thais have a military history in Vietnam as well as Thailand. The VC did not want an independent Vietnam they wanted a Vietnam dominated by the North and Ho. The South was Catholic the North was not and the land was taken from the Catholics in the North by the state. As ever religion rears it's ugly head in conflicts.

Edited February 17, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[Mosha]

There is a docufilm narrated by a guy who was a US General at the time of the civil war in Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh asked for American help to kick out the French after reading the UN draft about a nations right to self determination.. He could have been an ally instead of an enemy.

[Sing_Sling]

Chittychangchang wrote:

2, I married a descendent of someone who was helping the war effort against the States which didn't sit well for me personally for a while.

Why would it not sit well with you? You state that she is a descendant, does this mean you believe in collective and historical guilt? How would that sit with your friends who may be German, Vietnamese, Muslims of any nationality, Cambodians, Japanese, Italians, Native Americans, French, Mexicans, Brits, Guatemalans, Filipinos etc etc etc etc . . . because at one point or another the US has fought fairly well anyone and everyone on this planet.

Get rid of the small-minded thinking - you married HER, not some far-off and long-dead relative who fought for HIS cause like yours fought for theirs.

[chiangmaikelly]

There is a docufilm narrated by a guy who was a US General at the time of the civil war in Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh asked for American help to kick out the French after reading the UN draft about a nations right to self determination.. He could have been an ally instead of an enemy.

More than 1 million North Vietnamese people fled to the South, due in part to the land reform. It is estimated that as many as two million more would have left had they not been stopped by the Viet Minh. "As communist defector Le Xuan Giao explained: "There was nothing worse than the starvation of the children in a family whose parents were under the control of a land reform team. They isolated the house, and the people who lived there would starve. The children were all innocent. There was nothing worse than that. They wanted to see the whole family dead."

Land reform in Vietnam was a program of land reform in North Vietnam from 1953 to 1956. It followed the program of land reform in China from 1946 to 1953.

Your movie is wrong. No way the US could have supported taking land from the owners and distributing it to the non land owners. You are looking at a very complicated period in history and your answer is not correct and quite simplistic.

[Chittychangchang]

Chittychangchang wrote:

2, I married a descendent of someone who was helping the war effort against the States which didn't sit well for me personally for a while.

Why would it not sit well with you? You state that she is a descendant, does this mean you believe in collective and historical guilt? How would that sit with your friends who may be German, Vietnamese, Muslims of any nationality, Cambodians, Japanese, Italians, Native Americans, French, Mexicans, Brits, Guatemalans, Filipinos etc etc etc etc . . . because at one point or another the US has fought fairly well anyone and everyone on this planet.

Get rid of the small-minded thinking - you married HER, not some far-off and long-dead relative who fought for HIS cause like yours fought for theirs.

The small minded thought wasn't there for long, it just felt strange at the time.

[Shot]

I asked the Mrs. She said, with confidence that her great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, grand parents were Thai.

That’s all I could get.

[Semper]

I asked the Mrs. She said, with confidence that her great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, grand parents were Thai.

That’s all I could get.

Clearly she's not a HiSo.

[Chittychangchang]

Interesting stories and experiences on this thread!

Be good to hear some more.

CCC

[TheSpade]

I married a descendent of someone who was helping the war effort against the States which didn't sit well for me personally for a while.

Then you remembered that the USA was in the wrong in that war and that the Thai's did the right thing by helping the innocent neighbors of theirs that your country was bombing for no reason....right?

Edited October 4, 2013 by TheSpade

[buck99]

My TGF family's history is very different than most Thais. The father ran off when she was 6 yrs old and left the mother with 4 little girls. The mother sold fish to keep the family alive. Does this qualify my TGF for Hi So???

[cpofc]

My wife and her sisters, all now in middle age are here in the LOS at the moment on a nostalgia tour from Australia and the USA. My wife is staying with me for a few days. Discussing the old days and reminiscing. They are all off down to Silom today with their mother to look up where they lived as children, and went to school.

We all (the family) went over to Samut Sakhon to where my 85 YO Father In Law lives. His name is Pratuang Suwanwattana and a former Officer, Communications, in the Merchant Navy. He also worked for the US Military in Thailand too in his younger days. I know he may not be around for much longer so I wanted to ask him some questions and learn more about his, Thai, side of the family. Most of them did fairly well for themselves.

He pulled out a photograph of his Uncle and I was more than a little gobsmacked. Turns out his Uncle was big Admiral in the Thai Navy! Been dead a while now of course. Big 'State Funeral' when he died apparently. he has this photo, and others of his descendants, standing on his Buddha Altar in his house.

Here is a pic of Admiral So Phon, apparently when you get this high you change your name to something more 'approprate'. Perhaps someone here might know some more about him.

[peebee]

It is interesting that in the West there is a lot of focus on family history whereas it seems this is not the case in Thailand and other asian countries. No doubt there are many good reasons for this. My family history (paternal side) is documented in a book with a copy in a State library. My wife's family however has nothing in writing and very little has been imparted verbally.

In my wife's family, there is limited knowledge and has been very little discussion of the family history. My wife was not particularly interested in her family and did not feel she could ask her mother to tell her family history (and FIL is dead). However I am interested and, as a farang, was happy to barge in (with great respect of course) and start asking questions. My MIL actually really appreciated the interest being shown and once started was quite happy talking about her family. Once the talking started my wife and her sisters were happy to ask more questions and get a better understanding of things. My language deficiency meant that I did not understand a lot of what they covered as not everything was translated for me, but I was happy to help progress knowledge of the family. Of course, unfortunately, nothing is written down and so probably never will be adequately passed on to descendents. MIL was born in southern part of Thailand of Thai and Chinese parents but don't know of their history beyond that. FIL was born in southern China and came to Thailand as a young adult for greater opportunities I think. FIL's brother and family still live in China but MIL (aged 89) cannot remember the name of the village which is unfortunate, so have no further history of FIL family. Quite frustrating and disappointing really.

Interestingly, when I state that my wife and her family are substantially of Chinese descent, my wife says firmly that she is Thai. Another sister however is quite up front about 'being' Chinese. Other sisters keep their views to themselves.

FIL and MIL had to work hard to get ahead - they certainly didn't come from the hiso side of the track - starting a shoe business in Chinatown and working hard at it to make money and raise 9 kids. When they had some spare cash they would buy gold. When they had more cash they bought property. Wife believes her father's stroke when he was about 45, was brought on substantially by his work. They obviously worked hard and smart, and were frugal and were able to give their kids and grandchildren much better lives and options. A good hard-working practical family gradually getting ahead.

What is interesting is the changes that have occurred from generation to generation. My wife's generation started the change with some getting university degrees and becoming professionals, while others had their own businesses. Most have done quite well. However the next generation, our nieces and nephews, have taken a substantial step further in increasing their education - often doing a second university degree in UK, USA or Australia - and heading into paid professional careers in Thailand and overseas. We now have lawyers, accountants, a stockbroker/analyst, economists, university academics, a chef (and no doubt soon a restaurant owner) an architect and a monk (who is an abbott of a wat in north thailand with an engineering or economics degree from the USA and worked with Boeing).

These tremendous change and development in the family is very interesting to me because it is a reflection of some profound changes occurring in Thailand that will, in time, bring about significant changes in Thai society. It also underscores, in my mind at least, how unfortunate it is that this sort of family history is not documented. Maybe I will try and prevail on one of my retired sisters to take on the cause.

Apologies for the length of the posting if you read this far.

[Neeranam]

My Father in law was in Vietnam during the war. There were not many Thai soldiers thre and not much combat as I'm led to believe.

[simple1]

My Father in law was in Vietnam during the war. There were not many Thai soldiers thre and not much combat as I'm led to believe.

Thai armed forces have had a reputation of being effective combat infrantry in Vietnam (as well as during the Korean War). The Thai Armed Forces suffered 1,351 deaths during the Vietnam War

Edited October 6, 2013 by simple1