Wife Got Her Visa But Son Didn't

[David48]

May I offer a different viewpoint which may include an element of speculation ... but closer to a hypothetical.

Reversing the situation.

Mother and Son and Father living in England ... but not all together. Father has shared custody.

Father wishes to emigrate to Thailand as he has a lovely Thai wife and wishes to take his son with him. Says emphatically that the son wishes to go.

The English mother (ex-wife) who has rights also in relation to the child is screaming blue murder and that the Father is abducting her child and taking him overseas.

The Father has been granted a Visa but the child has not.

So, back to the OP, we know nothing of the custodial situation of the child ... we are relying on the aggrieved mother for these 'facts'.

As ThaiVisaExpress has mentioned in various posts ... lets get some solid information, some facts, a copy of the Visa refusal and I'm sure the knowledgeable people here will assist with full knowledge of the facts.

Edited February 22, 2013 by David48

[Kevin1908]

If the Father has custody for example until the child is 18 - then he has custody not the mother ?

If the father has custody he has sole responsibility possibly if the court order has awarded custody to the father the embassy wont issue the child with a visa. I would need to see the GV 51 buts that's my guess the embassy have made a decision based on that.

• Father has custody under Thai Law ( which sounds correct)
• If the child still has contact with the father then he may well have sole responsibility
• Did you not get the divorce settlement translated before you submitted ?

Forward the GV 51 I will take a look at it.

Now got the GV51. Quite a few significant factual incorrect statements in it but I will forward it and let me know what you think.

I suppose this is the sort of thing that happens when you interview a kid and you are not present to challenge what was said or how it was understood. Not sure whether the interview was conducted in English or Thai.

It says that parents were divorced in 2003 and he started grade 7 he would live with the father then when started grade 7 he would live with the mother.

It goes on to say that when he lived with his father, his mother lived with me!!!!!!. News to me, I never met the boys mother until 2011 and she has never lived with me. She came to the UK for 10 days in 2012 and I stayed with her in Aug 2011(1 week), Dec 2011(2 weeks), July 2012 (1 week) and Dec2012 (2 weeks) in Thailand when I was on holiday.

Further goes on to say that he was registered to live with the mother from Dec 2011. I know for a fact that he was living with his mother from at least Aug 2011 when I visited.

I completely disagree that the responsibility is joint. The father takes no responsibility and has only spasmodic contact.

I am going to seek the advice of am Immigration solicitor here as clearly I only have 28 days to get this appeal together.

[beano2274]

If the Father has custody for example until the child is 18 - then he has custody not the mother ?

If the father has custody he has sole responsibility possibly if the court order has awarded custody to the father the embassy wont issue the child with a visa. I would need to see the GV 51 buts that's my guess the embassy have made a decision based on that.

• Father has custody under Thai Law ( which sounds correct)
• If the child still has contact with the father then he may well have sole responsibility
• Did you not get the divorce settlement translated before you submitted ?

Forward the GV 51 I will take a look at it.

Now got the GV51. Quite a few significant factual incorrect statements in it but I will forward it and let me know what you think.

I suppose this is the sort of thing that happens when you interview a kid and you are not present to challenge what was said or how it was understood. Not sure whether the interview was conducted in English or Thai.

It says that parents were divorced in 2003 and he started grade 7 he would live with the father then when started grade 7 he would live with the mother.

It goes on to say that when he lived with his father, his mother lived with me!!!!!!. News to me, I never met the boys mother until 2011 and she has never lived with me. She came to the UK for 10 days in 2012 and I stayed with her in Aug 2011(1 week), Dec 2011(2 weeks), July 2012 (1 week) and Dec2012 (2 weeks) in Thailand when I was on holiday.

Further goes on to say that he was registered to live with the mother from Dec 2011. I know for a fact that he was living with his mother from at least Aug 2011 when I visited.

I completely disagree that the responsibility is joint. The father takes no responsibility and has only spasmodic contact.

I am going to seek the advice of am Immigration solicitor here as clearly I only have 28 days to get this appeal together.

The Interview is in Thai.

It says starting grade 7 twice the same sentence.

Maybe the boy said she had been living with another man when he was with his father (speculating so take it like that)

Seems that there are differences in the stories from the mother and the son, they do not seem to be on the same wavelength/

If the mother did not register him until December she should have said that he was living with her from August but she did not register him until later/

Edited February 22, 2013 by beano2274

[Kevin1908]

Beginning to find out more now. The Embassy, or who ever,called the boy while he was at school and very busy.

Now you or I would have the maturity to tell them to phone back at a more convenient time but this is a kid. He couldn't hear most of what was being asked but again being a kid he stuck with it. You or I would have said call me back when I can hear you, or have a face to face interview after all.

So based on a misheard interview and having what he thought was correct answers but were in fact incorrect answers his application was rejected.

I am getting the transcipts of the interviews to start the appeal.

He has lived with the mother for 3 years, the father takes no interest, pays nothing despite what the Embassy says.

Believe me if I thought I was depriving some honest father of seeing his son I would not be doing this. He can always make representations if he wants to take on the responsibility and expense if he wants to.

[beano2274]

sorry but was he at school? are you positive he was.

If so, then the Embassy are at fault in my opinion for phoning at an inconvenient time, however, he did give false answers whether he heard or not the questions were in Thai, and he would have known the answers, if he now gives different answers then the Embassy might think he has been told to say something different.

But get a good lawyer, as you never know in these situations

[wooloomooloo]

Kevin, it matters little what was said and at what time as the visa has been refused. You know this.

I would suggest an OISC registered lawyer take on the lad's appeal and go from there.

Concentrate your efforts and the decision may well be overturned. No distractions.

[Kevin1908]

sorry but was he at school? are you positive he was.

If so, then the Embassy are at fault in my opinion for phoning at an inconvenient time, however, he did give false answers whether he heard or not the questions were in Thai, and he would have known the answers, if he now gives different answers then the Embassy might think he has been told to say something different.

But get a good lawyer, as you never know in these situations

His mother said that they phoned while he was at school and he was busy. He also said he was unable to hear clearly.

I think this is the trouble with interview kids without a reponsible parent being present, not just for visa applications, for anything.

Kids don't realise the importance of these questions and give they answer that they think the interviewer wants to hear not necessarily the correct one. That is assuming they can hear and understand the question.

How on earth did the Embassy come up with the fact that my my now wife lived with me for 8 years. 7.5 years of the 8 years before I even met her. 4 of the 8 years when I was still married to and living with my previous wife.

If I produced something as sloppy as this at work I wouldn't last 5 minutes.

[Jay Sata]

sorry but was he at school? are you positive he was.

If so, then the Embassy are at fault in my opinion for phoning at an inconvenient time, however, he did give false answers whether he heard or not the questions were in Thai, and he would have known the answers, if he now gives different answers then the Embassy might think he has been told to say something different.

But get a good lawyer, as you never know in these situations

But often the truth comes out when they phone the kid on his mobile. They ask questions and the kid tells the truth

not what mum and step dad want him to say.

A lot of juvenile kids are pressured by a parent to say they want to go to Europe when the truth is they want to stay

at home in Thailand with friends.

[Kevin1908]

I have to disagree. I think kids say what they are expected to say. Yes they might tell the truth but can you rely on it being the truth.

What I find odd is that not one single fact that has come out of the interview has been verified. I on the other hand have had to supply endless documents, proof of earnings , substantiating proof (pay slips cross referred to bank statements)P60s, confirmation from employer etc etc. The dad says something or the kid says something and not one single fact was checked. And don't tell me these people are busy. If they go to this length then it doesn't take much to check a few facts.The boy says the divorce was in 2003, the dad says it was 2004, the mum says it was 2005. They didn't even check to see when the divorce actually was. The boy would have been either 5 6 or 7. Why expect him to answer that question.

[Jay Sata]

I have to disagree. I think kids say what they are expected to say. Yes they might tell the truth but can you rely on it being the truth.

What I find odd is that not one single fact that has come out of the interview has been verified. I on the other hand have had to supply endless documents, proof of earnings , substantiating proof (pay slips cross referred to bank statements)P60s, confirmation from employer etc etc. The dad says something or the kid says something and not one single fact was checked. And don't tell me these people are busy. If they go to this length then it doesn't take much to check a few facts.The boy says the divorce was in 2003, the dad says it was 2004, the mum says it was 2005. They didn't even check to see when the divorce actually was. The boy would have been either 5 6 or 7. Why expect him to answer that question.

In short you know this is Thailand.

However when you come to Europe and the numbers don't stack up there are problems. If the numbers on your

application form don't match the dates the kid gives on the phone interview where do you expect them to go?

Can you speak to the boy in English? I guess not so more problems.

However I wish you good luck and I'm sure you'll get help on this forum.

[bobrussell]

With two kids of this age in my household I have to admit I would dread to think what they would say in such an interview. I cannot see how unverified comments in such a phone interview could be taken as reliable. My daughter would probably be unable to provide any reliable dates so why should this child?

I have to ask why the child's phone number was given out to the Embassy? Not a particularly good move!

Not a safe way for the ECO to get information and discrepancies should have been clarified before any decision was made.

Without seeing the actual refusal wording it is very hard to be anything but speculative. It seems you are going down the right path with expert legal assistance to identify where things went wrong!

Best of luck and let us know how you get on!

Edited February 22, 2013 by bobrussell

[JLCrab]

From Post #37: "How on earth did the Embassy come up with the fact that my my now wife lived with me for 8 years. 7.5 years of the 8 years before I even met her. 4 of the 8 years when I was still married to and living with my previous wife."

7.5 years versus 6 months? Maybe the kid couldn't hear, truly got mixed up, and thought they were asking about another farang she might have lived with before she met you.

Edited February 23, 2013 by JLCrab

[7by7]

TVE said

if the father has a divorce certificate which confirms he has custody then the courts will need to re-issue a new one. You should really have checked the divorce/custody arrangements before submission and had any documents translated into English

Indeed.

When my wife divorced her first husband they agreed that she would have custody of her eldest child, a son, and he would have custody of her youngest, a daughter. This was made official in the divorce.

This lasted about 6 months after which the daughter moved back with her mother.

Six years later I'd arrived on the scene and we were looking at obtaining UK settlement visas; but officially my step daughter's father still had legal custody of her. So my wife had to go to court to have this changed before we could apply for their visas. This was despite the father having had no contact with her for at least 6 years. He didn't even turn up in court.

What does the legal paperwork say with regard to your step son's custody? That he has been living with his mother is somewhat irrelevant; unless she has legal custody of him.

Sole responsibility is more important than sole custody; but ECOs do have to ensure that any visa they issue to a child does not breach any custody order which may be in place.

You definitely need professional help with this.

[realenglish1]

I think you did not do this the right way

How can you let your wife fill out the documents for a UK VIsa for her son

You should have been there making sure she did if right and obviously she did not or he would not have been refused

Co mon get real How can you expect someone whos native language is not English to understand the nuances of our langauge

you will find from her app that it was a stupid mistake she made on the app

This is supposed to be your family

[BWPattaya]

Please correct me if I am wrong but I believed that before taking a child out of the country the other parent has to give permission., even if they are divorced. Thsi has to be done formally, not just word of mouth.

[7by7]

My wife did not have any permission from her ex husband to take her daughter out of Thailand; but she did have sole custody. As far as I remember Thai passport control did not, and never has, asked to see this when my step daughter was leaving Thailand (she's 22 now, so the point is now moot in her case), but my wife may have needed it when obtaining her daughter's first passport.

As far as the UK's settlement rules are concerned, a child will only be allowed to settle in the UK with one parent if

• the other parent is dead, or
• the parent moving to, or already living in, the UK has been exercising sole responsibility over the child for a considerable period, or
• there are serious and compelling reasons why the child needs to accompany the parent moving to the UK rather than remain with the other parent.

We have not seen the refusal notice in this case, but as the child was refused then it seems that, in the ECO's opinion, none of the above was met in this case.

[lor]

When I brought my wife's 4 year old son to the UK we needed to supply a letter from her family and the village head man confirming that the father had no contact with the child for many years. This was needed because no one knew the whereabouts of the father.

Chris

[ThaiVisaExpress]

I think your best course of action is to re apply once your wife has sole custody of the child via the Thai courts. I also would advise your wife stays in Thailand until the application is submitted this will add further weight to the new application.

This is just my opinion but I can see why the ECO has refused the application the child has spent the majority of his time with his father. I would contact the Level 3 advisor which I sent you the details of & get his opinion .

Paul

[Kevin1908]

I think your best course of action is to re apply once your wife has sole custody of the child via the Thai courts. I also would advise your wife stays in Thailand until the application is submitted this will add further weight to the new application.

This is just my opinion but I can see why the ECO has refused the application the child has spent the majority of his time with his father. I would contact the Level 3 advisor which I sent you the details of & get his opinion .

Paul

I have contacted Tony and taking it from there. I am not sure majority of the time with the father is fair. With father from 2005 until 2010 and with mother from 2010 until now so 5 years with father and 3 years with mother. I have got the transcripts and I have no idea where they got the figure of only one year with the mother from. Also since the son did not mention me as the person his mother was living with aftre the divorce the Embassy put 2 and 2 together and made 626.

For some reason her son answered the question how many times do you see your father he said 2 or 3 per week. I think he means on Facebook. Neither the mother or the father backed that up.

If the mother stays in Thailand the several months it will take to sort this out will her visa still be valid and would she need to re-apply.

I wouldn't put it past the British Embassy to then find a reason to turn her down. Plus I don't relish the thought of sending hundreds of personal documents again not to mention the expense.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Kevin was the company you employed visa world to prepare abd submit this application ?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Is it possible that when the boy was talking about "father", he was talking about you and not his natural father ? I do remember a telephone interview in another application where there was some confusion over this.

[Kevin1908]

Kevin was the company you employed visa world to prepare abd submit this application ?

Yes but they were employed by my wife without my knowledge. I have only just been made aware of their involvement.

I don't think her son was referring to me, I am in the UK anyway. I am not sure what he was thinking of. I can only assume he misheard or misunderstood the question.

[rawhod]

Kevin was the company you employed visa world to prepare abd submit this application ?

Yes but they were employed by my wife without my knowledge. I have only just been made aware of their involvement.

Oh dear...

If it is the same company...

The first time we went to Regent House in 2009 we were very inexperienced in visa matter and Visa World Consulting conned us into using them. I don't wish to go into details for the sake of my blood pressure, but they were crap. DROP THEM IMMEDIATELY.

Edited March 5, 2013 by rawhod