Chiang Mai Then And Now. 40 Year Jump

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Came across an old picture of Chaing Mai yesterday on Facebook, credited to a photographer named Nick DeWolf. It was from 1972, but was a color image. So did a Google image search which turned up LOADS of old Chiang Mai pictures.

As is usually the case with old pictures (esp. by foreigners) they tend to depict the traditional stuff like temples, hill tribes and rural scenes. Those aren't too interesting to me now because many of the same scenes you can still shoot today: Wat Chedi Luang looks pretty much the same today as it did 40 years ago. And while the rural scenes feature a few more buffalo and ox carts then you get today, the overal scenery isn't too different.

So I flipped through the images looking for more urban scenes, then spent until 2am last night finding the same spot today in Google Streetview. Some are best-guesses, for others it's very difficult to say where it is, but I'm opening the floor to suggestions.

Let's start with Thapae Road, coming up towards Thapae Gate.

In the early 1970s (one image is dated 1972, the other can't be too far off) it looked like this:

Then: Now:

Things I note from the image: First of all it's probably March 1972 because it's extremely hazy. The picture is taken directly into the sun, so considering that the detail is good that can only mean there is a lot of sh!t in the air. There is no way you can take that picture like that from April onwards, it would be all washed out because of the sun. You can clearly see the Montri hotel, with a big sign on it that reads Amarit in Thai. A concrete building across from the Montri on the left side of Ratchadamnoen are also visible, that's still there today. The reason that's easily visible, of course, is that there is no actual Thapae Gate wall. I don't recall exactly when the wall and gate was reconstructed (early 1980's?) but some prior gate structure is visible in the picture. I found another picture of it online, below.

Some pictures of the constructon of the current gate and wall. Somewhat dissappointing actually, as it shows clearly it's a rather fake hollow construction.

One more 'then and now set' from around the same time, almost the same spot:

Then: Now:

I'll add some more later, of other locations in town.

Edited February 28, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[MESmith]

Going by the google street view images, I conclude there is a lot less traffic on the roads compared to 40 years ago

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Next up: Charoen Muang Road, Sanpakhoi intersection. This is coming from Nawarat Bridge going East.

Then: Now:

What's remarkable here perhaps is that there isn't too much change in 40 years. Perhaps it shows that the busiest part of town in the modern era of Chiang Mai was always the area close to the river (both sides), and not so much the Old Town. That's still apparent today of course.

Edited February 28, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Then, Chang Moi road, going towards the Big Market (Kad Luang / Talad Warorot).

Big change here, no wooden structures left here in this very commercial area. My guess to the location is based on the old concrete building that's painted red in the 'now' image. Same shape, same crude concrete boxy shapes on the second floor, same overall exterior shape. This took some searching to find.

Then: Now:

One thing to keep in mind is that the aspect ratio of the regular old camera is a bit different from the 360 degree lens Google uses, which is also mounted higher up on top of a car. Also the old picture is likely a bit older; early 1960 perhaps.

Edited February 28, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[BuddhaMind]

I do indeed love before and after pictures. Thank you so much for posting these. And I'm with you, a bit disappointed about the ThaPae Gate construction. But, I am also one of the naive that thought it was 500 years old.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Now the location guesses are getting a bit more iffy. I *think* this is Maneenopparat road, on the outside near Sri Phoom corner. I base this mostly on the difference in elevation between the inside town area and the lower outside. There's pretty much that difference at that spot; elsewhere it's less. But it remains a guess.

Then: Now:

Some more moat pictures:

This image *could* be Katam Corner (South-East), based on how close the water level is to the road. I recall that from Songkran, it's one of the easiest refueling stops.

Based on water level it could potentially also be Sirphoom but the backdrop doesn't match with the Wichayanon Rd intersection there, with a temple right next to the intersection. So I'm going with Katam Corner.

No clue where this is:

[hellodolly]

Great stuff WTK. Is there a way into the insides of the wall at Thai Pa Gate?

By any chance are you one of the swimmers?

Edited February 28, 2013 by hellodolly

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Easy one: Yupparaj College in 1972. You can argue which corner it is.. I'm guessing it's here, on Prapokklao Rd :

Then: Now:

Also fairly easy: Wat Prasingh. Also based on the backdrop, showing the mountain.

Then: Now:

Also easy, the Old Lamphun Road. No telling exactly where of course.

But for the following images I don't know. Over to you:

This is probably Huay Kaew, but I can't base that on anything that's there today. Potentially not too far from the North Western city corner, roughly where Central and the Shell gas station is.

This is Huay Kaew for sure. Looking at the half visible sign on the left, and that it's 2km to Huay Kaew Waterfall according to the highway sign, I think the Rincome intersection.

Then: Now:

("Such a big highway! The 'old' Chiang Mai was truly spoiled in 1972!" )

Could this be the Canal Road? :

Final one, probably in the general Kad Luang area.

Edited February 28, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[eyecatcher]

Fascinating thread Winnie;

after looking at the Thapae reconstruction photos, I found elsewhere on the net, that all the gates were reconstructed in the late 60's after being opened up previously to undergo archeological work and to generally open up the city. only the gates were rebuilt, and the corners are pretty much as they were.

I suspect we will all be at Thapae today to check that they are really 3-4m wide at the bottom, as the concrete structure is on par with a condo. I actually thought initially the structure was just a temporary protection framework, to enclose,the building site and put roof on whilst they started the very long process of rebuilding...........maybe it was and was eventually demolished.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Maybe I was wrong saying temples looked exactly the same as they do now..

Wat Chedi Luang looked a lot fuzzier.

And, we ("we") had buses!

And, crucially, winning smiles. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[cycloneJ]

thanks for the time/effort in matching those photos; recently I found a site with pictures taken by one Robert Pendleton mostly 1936 and 1937 in Chanthaburi where we live, many taken in our immediate/surrounding area, (here if anyone is interested) he documented them well with village names and general directions/distances, some we've been able to identify accurately - a temple in the background is a great start.

Apart from that it's been a good insight as to how things were, as are these ones you've provided for CM

Keep up the good work!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

This one is difficult. I feel it should be doable to pin-point the location given it's a road in a commercial area, with a small pagoda visible in the background. The pagoda doesn't look like it's rendered in cement, but of course in the years since then that could easily have happened if it's a pagoda belonging to an active temple. If it's a pagoda ruin then they're mostly left unrendered.

Anyone?

Another really difficult one, possibly a bit out of town:

This one I did find (not hard because there's a sign ) It's a bit out of town near Mae Taeng. In general I'm noticing LOTS of trees and vegetation in both the city shots and rural shots, but quite a bit less so in the old pictures. I wonder why that is.

Then: Now:

(Different direction to make it better visible through all the trees.)

Edited February 28, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[cmsally]

I do indeed love before and after pictures. Thank you so much for posting these. And I'm with you, a bit disappointed about the ThaPae Gate construction. But, I am also one of the naive that thought it was 500 years old.

Tapae Gate was reconstructed approx 1986.

1985 it was still the old one that you drove through the middle, and pretty sure 1988 was new version.

The mayor that authorised the "remodel" was I believe killed in the Lauda Air crash which saw a lot of fairly well known Thais also go down. Everyone then said it was karma for messing with the old Tapae structure !

[WinnieTheKhwai]

hellodolly, on 28 Feb 2013 - 05:55, said:

Great stuff WTK. Is there a way into the insides of the wall at Thai Pa Gate?

Yes, there is a secret underground passage into there from the old Bar Beer Center.

It's where ladyboys rest during the day, hanging upside down from the ceiling.

Edited February 28, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[scd]

Good post and research WTK. Thank you!

[DLock]

Thanks for this Winnie. Really interesting photos.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Alright, another Old Lamphun Road picture from 1972.

I'm calling this as being here, in the 'Now' image below.

Then: Now:

Of course this is a wild guess.. Shape of the tree even matches too..

Overall though I think it's fair to say that the Lamphun road is another area that didn't change too much in the past 40 years; even if this isn't the exact location, there are plenty old wooden houses like it along this road.

[Semper]

The smog looks the same.

[Pond Life]

Great job Winnie, keep em coming.

[PoodMaiDai]

Didn't know the moat wall was fake. How completely disappointing.

They did a great job making it look old.

[BuddhaMind]

So now I don't feel so bad. This is Chiang Mai in 1896. There actually WAS a wall. Thank god.

[BuddhaMind]

Hey Winnie, do you know where this is? It's Chiang Mai and not Disneyland. Thank god.

[Microwave]

Fascinating photos Winnie & Buddha. I first visited Chiang Mai 32 years ago and if memory serves me correctly (big "if") the Tha Pae gate existed but not the walls extending from the gate. There certainly wasn't a walking/ rest area next to the east side of the gate as exists now.

The trees on the old Chiang Mai - Lamphun road will exist forever (hopefully) due to a royal decree forbidding their being cut down. They've been declared a national treasure. Much more activity along this road now than there was 32 years ago, back then the road was out in the sticks. I used to bike this road every now and then and my slides show little if any development and traffic along this beautiful stretch of road.

I remember when 3 Kings Monument was initiated in 1983/4?. The King himself came to initiate the building himself, it was quite a celebration.

[Mapguy]

This is fun, Winnie, thanks!

There is an interesting CMU photo collection here covering many years:

http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_picturelanna/picture_trails.php

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Hey Winnie, do you know where this is? It's Chiang Mai and not Disneyland. Thank god.

That one is usually labelled as being Chiang Mai gate. Apparently the design for the current rebuilt Thapae gate was based on this image.

If you look closely you see another wall on the other side, suggesting a double wall / gate. Indeed there's the space for that at all major city gates, including the current square at Thapae Gate and the evening food area at Chiang Mai gate.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Nice image, also captioned as being in Chiang Mai.

Note the Vietnamese style dress.

[Mapguy]

Maybe not a complete double wall, but a design to slow down entrance to the city by blocking direct access or a direct field of fire in case an enemy breaches the gate.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Mapguy

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Let's do Loy Kroh.. the Suriwongse hotel. Good difference to note here.

Suriwong Hotel in 1967, and now:

Then: Now:

And another old one of Thapae Road (1954):

Then: Now:

[dickyknee]

Nice image, also captioned as being in Chiang Mai.

motorcycle.JPG

Note the Vietnamese style dress.

and from what i can tell from the image, she would have had to ride the motorbike up the wrong way/side of the road to park like that.

some things don't change.

nice pictures BTW.

Edited March 1, 2013 by dickyknee

[watcharacters]

Going by the google street view images, I conclude there is a lot less traffic on the roads compared to 40 years ago

.

I think you're on to something. 555

Edited March 1, 2013 by watcharacters