Danish Tourists Charged With Sexual Assault In Thailand Released On Bail

[Paangjang]

she could remember 3 men reached orgasm,she passed out.and woke up in the morning, ? very fishy

How do you know it was fishy? Your just pressuming she hadn't taken a shower. Maybe she had time for a quick shower, therefore it may not have been fishy...

[Kripe]

Profanity posts have been removed.

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

Some nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

@ Transam. "And do folk understand what type of bar it is."

>@ DP25 What does that have to do with anything? She wasn't in a 'please rape

me' bar. It is perfectly normal for people that are not hookers or not

interested in hookers to be in a bar with bar girls, it is a normal part

of being a tourist and these bars are normally not dodgy at all. There

are loads of western women in these type of bars and clubs every night

in Thailand. This entire line of reasoning is awful, I shudder to think

what some guys think when an actual bar girl goes back to a room with a

customer and she is surprised by a gang of men who take turns on her

against her will.

You and Kripe are missunderstanding what Transam is saying! he is saying do tousists or non expats know what type of bar any bar is when they visit Thailand

Got is thanks they should know that there are some, not all bars in Thailand, that are somewhat different from what they are used to at home...

[rubl]

This thread is not really much better than the previous one on this particular case. I guess that shouldn't really surprise me

I assume that the Danish Embassy has been informed, or they contacted the police on hearing about this case. As such I hope I may assume that the two suspects have had legal assistance and probably a bit of further advise from Embassy personel. That would be the procedure with 'normal' foreigners being accused.

Having their passports confiscated might deter the two to 'hop over' the border. As the Danish authorities know about the case, they would get into serious troubles if one day they just 'arrived' back in Denmark. IMHO

[Kripe]

@ Transam. "And do folk understand what type of bar it is."

>@ DP25 What does that have to do with anything? She wasn't in a 'please rape

me' bar. It is perfectly normal for people that are not hookers or not

interested in hookers to be in a bar with bar girls, it is a normal part

of being a tourist and these bars are normally not dodgy at all. There

are loads of western women in these type of bars and clubs every night

in Thailand. This entire line of reasoning is awful, I shudder to think

what some guys think when an actual bar girl goes back to a room with a

customer and she is surprised by a gang of men who take turns on her

against her will.

You and Kripe are missunderstanding what Transam is saying! he is saying do tousists or non expats know what type of bar any bar is when they visit Thailand

Still what DP25 is saying: Nomatter if the girl know what kind of bar she enter or not, if she is drunk or not, she did not have a sign saying rape me!!!

If that was what happened, she is not less victim if she was at a "dodgy" bar or not - if she knew the type of bar or not.

[Thorgal]

True Scandinavian threesome or not ?

These 'crimes-or-not' happen every day somewhere, mostly in public (touristic) places.

Why is everybody here so surprised ?

note : you can not get free on bail in Thailand for any sex assaults...

[Kripe]

True Scandinavian threesome or not ?

These 'crimes-or-not' happen every day somewhere, mostly in public (touristic) places.

Why is everybody here so surprised ?

note : you can not get free on bail in Thailand for any sex assaults...

Well some judge is not complying with the rules then:

Danish Tourists Charged With Sexual Assault In Thailand Released On Bail.

Do you mind sharing your source: " you can not get free on bail in Thailand for any sex assaults"

I seems to recall you can even get out on bail if you have caused other peoples death!

[ozziebloke]

@ Transam. "And do folk understand what type of bar it is."

>@ DP25 What does that have to do with anything? She wasn't in a 'please rape

me' bar. It is perfectly normal for people that are not hookers or not

interested in hookers to be in a bar with bar girls, it is a normal part

of being a tourist and these bars are normally not dodgy at all. There

are loads of western women in these type of bars and clubs every night

in Thailand. This entire line of reasoning is awful, I shudder to think

what some guys think when an actual bar girl goes back to a room with a

customer and she is surprised by a gang of men who take turns on her

against her

will.

You and Kripe are missunderstanding what Transam is saying! he is saying do tousists or non expats know what type of bar any bar is when they visit Thailand

Still what DP25 is saying: Nomatter if the girl know what kind of bar she enter or not, if she is drunk or not, she did not have a sign saying rape me!!!

If that was what happened, she is not less victim if she was at a "dodgy" bar or not - if she knew the type of bar or not.

yes

[Thorgal]

True Scandinavian threesome or not ?

These 'crimes-or-not' happen every day somewhere, mostly in public (touristic) places.

Why is everybody here so surprised ?

note : you can not get free on bail in Thailand for any sex assaults...

Well some judge is not complying with the rules then:

Danish Tourists Charged With Sexual Assault In Thailand Released On Bail.

Do you mind sharing your source: " you can not get free on bail in Thailand for any sex assaults"

I seems to recall you can even get out on bail if you have caused other peoples death!

Everybody can be charged with sexual assault and released on bail if proven not guilty with corroborative evidences.

Charges can be dropped at the police station or in the worst case before trial at Thai Court.

If you're guilty, your bail request will not be provided before trial from Thai Court as long as you remain logically as a potential danger to society. Just to avoid repetitive crimes.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Thorgal

[DP25]

What does that have to do with anything? She wasn't in a 'please rape me' bar. It is perfectly normal for people that are not hookers or not interested in hookers to be in a bar with bar girls, it is a normal part of being a tourist and these bars are normally not dodgy at all. There are loads of western women in these type of bars and clubs every night in Thailand. This entire line of reasoning is awful, I shudder to think what some guys think when an actual bar girl goes back to a room with a customer and she is surprised by a gang of men who take turns on her against her will.

Not dodgy at all ....... are you insane.

Bars with prostitutes and short-time rooms out the back are not dodgy.

Bars where you can pay the bar to have sex with a prostitute are not dodgy.

Bars where most of the girls are taking yaa-ice are not dodgy.

Bars where unaccompanied Thai girls are forbidden to enter (no freelancers) are not dodgy.

Your definitions of dodgy and my definitions of dodgy are clearly much different.

No, in general beer bars in heavy tourist areas are not dodgy and it is usually perfectly safe for anyone to go and have fun in one. The road in Chiang Mai she was is not dodgy and it is filled with all kinds of tourists every night of the year. I've stayed in that road many times and I'm not looking for prostitutes, that road is a good location and has nice restaurants and hotels and tons of tourists of all ages and genders. Anyone who would rape a women because she had been in close proximity to a prostitute earlier in the evening is a scumbag. I wonder how far away one has to get before people will stop blaming them. The night market is close by, maybe those women would be to blame too for being down the street from a bar. Maybe someone eating a restaurant next door or a hotel across the street from these bars are targets too. Some of you people need to get a clue, there seem to be a lot of men on here who think all women are either virgins or whores and that being in a bar and going home with a guy she thought was nice is an invitation to a gang rape.

[Briandajew]

Making no statement is the right thing to do. They should be demanding to make a call to their embassy and to ask for an attorney.

Exactly - Make a statement, next thing you know they will be on Channel 3 doing some sort of sick porno re enactment for the rotten BIB and getting a back rub and a massage from some Police Captain Somchai for their compliance!

[rubl]

For those who are really interested here a link to an Amnesty International report which is also downloadable as PDF. From March 2010

"Case closed: Rape and human rights in the Nordic countries: Summary report"

http://amnesty.org/en/library/info/ACT77/001/2010/en

[Potosi]

Don't judge, let the judge do his/her job. If they don't show up in court they are properly guilty, and will live the rest of their life as fugitives, at least until they one day get court.

When they get court they will be held responsible and face a fair trail. - no new passport will be issued to those guys from the Danish authorities, at least not it the authorities know they are released on bail.

What is she doesn't turn up in court?

Will she live the rest of her life as a fugitive?

I remember the Australian girl last year ...... raped by three men ....... judged by TV members ....... false accusation.

Then there is the Scottish teacher ....... she's returned home ........ what happens to the guys she accused?

Just seems to be two different standards here, men instantly guilty, women innocent even when they make false claims.

Lets wait for the trial, and see if anyone turns up.

Yes, the Scottish woman had a very similar story, got drunken and raped by two Thais. Not much compassion for her here, maybe because the rapers weren't white. Rape and pedophily are crimes were no evidence is needed, the accusation is enough, guilty. The woman remains anonymous, no name, no picture, while the pics of the men and their names go around the world. No way to check if she has a history of false accusations. I checked the Dutch ('Dronken Nederlandse vrouw verkracht in Chiang Mai', that sounds cute) and German news in case they know more, nothing there either. Both of them say the men who raped the woman were from the Caucasus mountains. A common misunderstanding.

[Bagwan]

Dutch woman, travelling alone. Goes to a bar alone, gets drunk. Goes up to a guy's room who she's just met.

Bright bulb, indeed.

Will somebody please illuminate me? Where in the above does the poster say that she deserved to be raped? Anybody with an ounce of nous would recognise the stupidity of her actions, thus putting herself at risk.

That said, I hope that the vile perpetrators of this violent crime are apprehended, locked up for a long time and hopefully be on the receiving end of a similar act. Sentient people would reserve judgement awaiting until they hear the whole story before venting their fury. It is not unknown for the RTP to fit somebody up. nor for false accusations to be made. In a civilised society there is, and always should be, a presumption of innocence until proven in a court of law. Obviously some have been here too long and forgotten that, but since when have too many posters given lengthy thought before posting?

[Thorgal]

............................"No bail for sexual offenses with proven guilt.".....................................

This part of your statement is the part that dosn't make sense! They havn't been found guilty yet

Be sure, that with hard evidences Thai police would never provide bail for these charges.

The police are now waiting/investigating for more evidence to file a request to the court for a warrant.

By this, the bail has been granted under police custody and not from the Public Prosecutor.

Till now, there's no corroborative evidence resulting in proven guilt of rape-crime charges for the 3 Danes.

Although, they have officially been charged for rape, or sexual assault by the victim.

Police investigation is still ongoing.

[pieandmash]

Can anyone clear up if when the "Danish" accused were described as "Caucasian" it merely meant they was White or if it was used to signify they originate from the Caucasus, ie they're from Chechyna, Azerbaijan or somewhere and now hold Danish citizenship. Unfortunately if I was a betting man I'd put my money on the latter.

[simple1]

............................"No bail for sexual offenses with proven guilt.".....................................

This part of your statement is the part that dosn't make sense! They havn't been found guilty yet

Be sure, that with hard evidences Thai police would never provide bail for these charges.

Not true, convicted murderers have been given bail whilst appealing sentences in Thailand. Recently the Karin girl who was tortured over a number of years with terrible scars, the couple were given bail and absconded and the list goes on and on.

[DP25]

Can anyone clear up if when the "Danish" accused were described as "Caucasian" it merely meant they was White or if it was used to signify they originate from the Caucasus, ie they're from Chechyna, Azerbaijan or somewhere and now hold Danish citizenship. Unfortunately if I was a betting man I'd put my money on the latter.

I think they just mean white. A Thai newspaper printed their picture (with a slight blur), they were tall with blond hair and looked like stereotypical Scandinavians.

[Thai at Heart]

Making no statement is the right thing to do. They should be demanding to make a call to their embassy and to ask for an attorney.

Been in the cop shop here and all that will do is annoy the hell out of them and keep you waiting for ever. Really wouldn't suggest adopting this approach in Thailand. Be polite and state the facts either way or its gonna be a long hard road you travel down.

Met an English lad who had adopted the approach you suggested over a tiny bit of weed he had in his pocket, he got held for 5 days getting regular kickings until the copper who was dealing with my case asked me to explain to him that if he just admitted to it (which he had no choice anyhow as it was his and in his pocket) he could be bailed, go to court, get a fine and p1ss off back to farangland. I explained, he was out and in a matter of hours, in court the following monday and back to farangland soon after.

Moral of the story don't get caught, but if you do the rules are worlds apart from the west so play the game and don't be a mug.

I would suggest that in this context, saying nothing initially is the right thing to do.

[TommoPhysicist]

Okay, I try it again.

let's see how the "she brought it on herself"- brigade will react to this.

Single white male

travels to Thailand alone

goes to a bar alone

meets a white woman

drinks and parties with her

goes with her to her hotel- room

has sex with her

jealous boyfriend shows up

kills the guy with a knife

Brought in on himself?

Had it coming?

Should have treaded lightly in the mine- field?

Was not the brightest bulb?

Actually my advice would always be never take someone you just met to your room.

Short-time hotels charge 120bht an hour, and they won't allow any funny business.

Doesn't matter what sex you are, strangers can be dangerous.

[Buchholz]

The two Danish men who were arrested in Chiang Mai

Later they both went to his room 302 on the 3rd floor, in Chiang Mai city.

Pol. Col. Aksorn said there are three suspects in the rape case, and they know the identity of the third suspect.

Lots of additional information available in the Thai press:

Eg. the accused names, ages, photos of the suspects, the location of the alleged rape, etc.

but still, as yet, not in the English language media.

.

[simple1]

Can anyone clear up if when the "Danish" accused were described as "Caucasian" it merely meant they was White or if it was used to signify they originate from the Caucasus, ie they're from Chechyna, Azerbaijan or somewhere and now hold Danish citizenship. Unfortunately if I was a betting man I'd put my money on the latter.

in 2011 in the UK there were 1,153 rape or attempted rape convictions., 820 were committed by whites, details at:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/122120/response/305010/attach/html/4/FOI%2077382%20588%2012.xls.html

Are you going to argue the majority were comitted by people from Chechyna, Azerbaijan or somewhere who hold UK citizenship?

[Thorgal]

Bail conditions for the Karen girl case and the 3 Danes is completely different.

But in both cases bail has been provided during ongoing investigation and/or insufficient hard evidence at that time to result in a warrant.

For me there's a huge difference between 'under charge' and 'under warrant'...

Which Thai police station/Court will provide bail for charges/crimes WITH hard evidence like slavery, torture, forced labor, child trafficking, possession/dealing narcotics, child abuse, rape,...?

Or do you believe in a theory that you can commit any severe crime and that you can have unconditionally bail in any case in Thailand ?

Edited March 2, 2013 by Thorgal

[metisdead]

A post in which the quotes had been messed up due to the quote limits has been removed as the post was miss attributing who said what. The replies were removed as well.

Other inflammatory hyperbolic posts have been removed as well.

Edit: An off topic baiting post has been removed as well as a reply.

Edited March 2, 2013 by metisdead

[simple1]

Bail conditions for the Karen girl case and the 3 Danes is completely different.

But in both cases bail has been provided during ongoing investigation and/or insufficient hard evidence at that time to result in a warrant.

For me there's a huge difference between 'under charge' and 'under warrant'...

Which Thai police station/Court will provide bail for charges/crimes WITH hard evidence like slavery, torture, forced labor, child trafficking, possession/dealing narcotics, child abuse, rape,...?

Or do you believe in a theory that you can commit any severe crime and that you can have unconditionally bail in any case in Thailand ?

As an example there was the case of a number of members of the RTP who were convicted and sentenced (2012) for the torture and killing of a youth during Thaksin's War on Drugs. They were released on bail whilst appealing the severity of the sentence and the witnesses had their protection removed. As to unconditional bail for severe crimes, I do not know as the English language media, for reasons I do not understand, rarely reports on these matters.

As to hard evidence with the Karen girl, you would think that severe scarring would be sufficient for the alleged perpetrators to be held in custody until inquiries had been completed.

[geriatrickid]

Quite a predicament here;

Rights of an accused to a proper investigation and fair hearing along with the presumption of innocence vs.

Rights of a victim of a sexual assault to justice and privacy.

Two countries involved have a long and decent reputation of supporting both the rights of an accused and worked to stop violence against women in Thailand, and both have advocated for the fair treatment of an accused in Thailand so the respective embassies will being walking a fine line. It is times like this I am glad I don't work in consular affairs.

[slipperx]

Making a Statement to the police here is not a very clever thing to do unless you can read Thai or have a translator you trust who can vouch for what is in the written statement. Too many times I have heard of the police making up a story for their own benefit which lies a long way from your 'statement'. Then once you sign it you have no leg to stand n. a dangerous thing to do in my opinion.

[Postmaster]

There is no need to resort to this behaviour in Thailand, even in Chiang Mai there are plenty of women available to relieve oneself at little cost without resorting to rape. It is just not necessary. When you read about the sexual deviants in Europe you think well, you guys, just get a ticket to Pattaya or some such place and pay a small price to satisfy your needs all within the law. Just no need

[ALFREDO]

Dutch woman, travelling alone. Goes to a bar alone, gets drunk. Goes up to a guy's room who she's just met.

Bright bulb, indeed.

Is that not what we men like? Easy sex, ect. So why speak out against it?

A young woman acting similar a man, does not mean, she consents to sex with 3!

[ALFREDO]

I'm sick because I call the girl stupid?

Yes,

[Kripe]

There is no need to resort to this behaviour in Thailand, even in Chiang Mai there are plenty of women available to relieve oneself at little cost without resorting to rape. It is just not necessary. When you read about the sexual deviants in Europe you think well, you guys, just get a ticket to Pattaya or some such place and pay a small price to satisfy your needs all within the law. Just no need

You are right, but this tread is about 2 Danish men how got released on bail, charged of raping a Duch girl, did they rape her?

If they didn't the release is highly justified.

If they did they should serve time in jail, at least..

The tread is about two men who got released on bail - there could be a reason they got released no?

Let's see if a court meeting is scheduled, and if they show up..