Fish Farming ... When It Goes Belly Up

[IsaanAussie]

The lime is to raise the pH level and settle suspended solids. No bacteria? No, just none they test for. Or no nasties. Two bags of lime isn't a lot, I used to lime mine pond with as much and it is only 600 sq metres. I try to "dust" the surface before I run the pump to stir things up.

RBH, I harvested a lot of algae today from my pond and am fermenting it with rice bran, "my" EM and molasses. This is for my pig/fish protein feed which I will pelletise. I do not same but swap the bran out for biochar for Nitrogen fertiliser.

I will not be trying the molasses treatment in the pond as I do not want to kill off or reduce the algae. The few catfish (catsharks) I have in the pond do OK as it is.

Edited March 28, 2013 by IsaanAussie

[RedBullHorn]

Yes... Molasses EM-A treatment will reduce algae bloom, especially those sticky jelly type major bloom. On the another hand, more manure or Urea, more algae bloom.

ray23... Liming the pond (by dusting lightly is sufficient) is to adjust the soil PH level, doesn't kill bacteria. Over liming will result in significant lose of DO ( Dissolve Oxygen), so use with care. If you really want to eliminate bacteria, the quick and expensive way is Chlorine tablets - comes in 1'' or 3'' tablets, or in powder form. The slow and economical way is the EM-A treatment.

As for the fishery department opinions or advise, just take it with a pinch of salt. I trust them not.

Edited March 28, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[ozzydom]

Ray ,I think you may have got at cross references with the fisheries office,it takes up to two weeks to do a complete test ,and that does not include many of the more exotic bacteria.as lab cultures and incubation is needed.

I would put 50kg of dolomite in and check the results before going overboard.Not knowing what PH your pond water is makes it hard to comment.The liming is also used as a buffer and helps alleviate sudden PH changes which can be toxic.

Lime should be used to buffer a pond before the fish are introduced but this is not always practical.

The tiny amount of salt they mention is hardly worth the bother,if you relieve yourself in the pond whenever your up there it would have the same effect. Pla Nin can tolerate 35% of the salinity of seawater.

[sjefrie]

Pond conditioning through liming

ftp://ftp.fao.org/fi/cdrom/fao_training/FAO_Training/General/x6709e/Index.htm

[DonaldBattles]

Thanks for the information. For sure I won't put any catr fish or snake heads in with the red tialapi.

[ray23]

Thanks guys I will take it easy with the lime. The die off is slowing down. I will play it by ear fo a bit and see how things go. But, a 100 Kilos I don't think so.

Thanks for the. site.

[RedBullHorn]

I only lime when necessary, like once a year after 3 cycles of farming to condition the soil PH. I prefer to salt rather than liming, and when lime, i dust very lightly...not more than 25kg for a 800sqm pond.

[ray23]

I only lime when necessary, like once a year after 3 cycles of farming to condition the soil PH. I prefer to salt rather than liming, and when lime, i dust very lightly...not more than 25kg for a 800sqm pond.

Can this be done while fish are in the pond? The guy at the m farm place said to mix it with water. Doesn't like what you are doing?

I suppose the first part of the question really doesn't matter, since they are dying anyway. Fish aer cheap feed is not.

[jayci]

I only lime when necessary, like once a year after 3 cycles of farming to condition the soil PH. I prefer to salt rather than liming, and when lime, i dust very lightly...not more than 25kg for a 800sqm pond.

Can this be done while fish are in the pond? The guy at the m farm place said to mix it with water. Doesn't like what you are doing?

I suppose the first part of the question really doesn't matter, since they are dying anyway. Fish aer cheap feed is not.

if using quick lime, please take extreme care. When mixed with water, it is highly exothermic.

You could try just mixing a small batch and check ph the following day and add more if necessary. Slow changes in ph will be better for the fish.

[ozzydom]

Most of the "lime" (Poon Khao)sold in farm supply outlets is Dolomite.(50 kg bags)

Hydrated lime can be had in building supply outlets(10 & 20 kg bags)

My advise would be to stay clear of :quicklime" and liquid concentrated lime for fish ponds as they are to volatile ,specially if fish are present.

I feel Rays pond PH should be within bounds so they probably mean it to be used as a buffer,which is common practice.

[David48]

I really wish to%

[David48]

I really wish to comment, but the internet/computer is up the sh*it cheek without any molasses ...

Can download, but only upload occasionally.

Some great comments for reading ... one and all ...

.

[ray23]

Most of the "lime" (Poon Khao)sold in farm supply outlets is Dolomite.(50 kg bags)

Hydrated lime can be had in building supply outlets(10 & 20 kg bags)

My advise would be to stay clear of :quicklime" and liquid concentrated lime for fish ponds as they are to volatile ,specially if fish are present.

I feel Rays pond PH should be within bounds so they probably mean it to be used as a buffer,which is common practice.

With the Thai name I shoud be able to find that. I will go with that how much you think Dom?

[ozzydom]

Most of the "lime" (Poon Khao)sold in farm supply outlets is Dolomite.(50 kg bags)

Hydrated lime can be had in building supply outlets(10 & 20 kg bags)

My advise would be to stay clear of :quicklime" and liquid concentrated lime for fish ponds as they are to volatile ,specially if fish are present.

I feel Rays pond PH should be within bounds so they probably mean it to be used as a buffer,which is common practice.

With the Thai name I shoud be able to find that. I will go with that how much you think Dom?

100 baht for a 50 kg bag mate.

[ray23]

Most of the "lime" (Poon Khao)sold in farm supply outlets is Dolomite.(50 kg bags)

Hydrated lime can be had in building supply outlets(10 & 20 kg bags)

My advise would be to stay clear of :quicklime" and liquid concentrated lime for fish ponds as they are to volatile ,specially if fish are present.

I feel Rays pond PH should be within bounds so they probably mean it to be used as a buffer,which is common practice.

With the Thai name I shoud be able to find that. I will go with that how much you think Dom?

100 baht for a 50 kg bag mate.

Ok I will give that a try nothing to lose LOL, do you need to mix it with water?

[RedBullHorn]

Thai understand the English word "Dolomite", it is not a problem or just tell them you want "Poon Khao - use to lime fish pond" (the whole sentence).

Liming should be done during pond preparation when the pond water is pump out and sun dried... If there's minimum water below ankle depth, it's alright...but if it is more than knee or tight level, you're actually conditioning the water PH rather than the soil.

Don't mix with water (unless you want to use it to paint )

Wear rubber gloves and scoop the lime into a bucket, use your hand to dust by throwing it out and spreading it, like the action of throwing sand at someone but gentle.

This is how you should lime (that's not me.)

Lightly dusting the pond should look like this. (dried pond)

ankle deep. (wet pond)

Avoid liming heavily like this pond.

.

Edited March 29, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[ray23]

Thai understand the English word "Dolomite", it is not a problem or just tell them you want "Poon Khao - use to lime fish pond" (the whole sentence).

Liming should be done during pond preparation when the pond water is pump out and sun dried... If there's minimum water below ankle depth, it's alright...but if it is more than knee or tight level, you're actually conditioning the water PH rather than the soil.

Don't mix with water (unless you want to use it to paint )

Wear rubber gloves and scoop the lime into a bucket, use your hand to dust by throwing it out and spreading it, like the action of throwing sand at someone but gentle.

This is how you should lime (that's not me.)

3823.jpg

Lightly dusting the pond should look like this. (dried pond)

DSC00039.jpg

ankle deep. (wet pond)

limed-pool-2.jpg

Avoid liming heavily like this pond.

limed.png

.

Since we pumped last weekend about a meter of water in it now. I can do the edges they are about 3 meters high at this point. But, since it has a spring feeding it I don't I could ever get it dry. Your right not easy to mix with water we did that yesterday The pond itself is about four meters deep.

I think I will try to pump it out next year and treat the soil. With the current draught. I don't have my normal back up ponds usually have two this year just one. Depend on what kind of rainy season we have.

Interesting I transfer water from the pond having the problem to a small pond that has cat fish in it and they are doing fine. Could go to just straight cat fish the season I suppose.

[ray23]

Just reviewed the FAO site on the subject, you really have to be careful, when the fish are there. Does call for mixing it in water, if the pond isn't dry. I will go out to our fish food supplier tomorrow and see what I can get. Maybe do it a little at a time to see waht happens. It said to test the water after one month.

Dom you said there was another test that takes sometime to get the results on. Where would you get that test done?

Boy a huge learning curve on this stuff

Edited March 29, 2013 by ray23

[ray23]

Well found the Dolomite, here 195. I'm adding one half kilo in the morning adn them 1/2 at night mixed in water.

I also finally undersatnd where the mud content came from, the pond we pumped from was muddy.

I think we will get a handle on it, then just replace what died

[ozzydom]

You can be a lot more generous with the dolomite Ray,it is only calcium and magnesium and only has a PH of 7 so it isnt going to affect the PH of the pond water to any great degree

[ray23]

You can be a lot more generous with the dolomite Ray,it is only calcium and magnesium and only has a PH of 7 so it isnt going to affect the PH of the pond water to any great degree

Thanks Dom, still soem die off. But, not like it was before. I think when the rains start again I will be in good shape. I won't replace the die off until after the raiins start.

Cat fish are amazing exact same water and no problem at all.

[patongphil]

Thanks for the information. For sure I won't put any catr fish or snake heads in with the red tialapi.

Try putting a few Spotted Featherbacks in. This is what I did just bought a dozen from the local fish shop thing at the market. Beautiful fish and are now about 70 cm long and help keep the fry at bay without being too aggressive or overbreeding.

Can always catch them and I believe make good Laarb. I treat them more like pets and whenever we catch them with nets etc standing orders are to release back.

[RedBullHorn]

yum yum...Laarb or fish balls.

[krisb]

Don't know if you've seen the news here in Adelaide David but fish have been dying on our beaches due to only a slight increase of water temps of only a couple degrees. There's been hundreds washing up.

Is that a possibility at the farm?

[ray23]

Just to butt in for a minute, the higher the temps go more die off I get. But not effecting the cat fish. In the meantime I'm following the suggestions. We will see what happens when we start getting some rian it cools the water a bit.

In any event not adding anymore till the die off stops. Of ciurse i could switch to cat fish in the big pond. Here in Udon Pla Duk sales for 50 baht a kilo and Pla Nin sales for 70 Baht. The growth cycle on cat fish is much faster. Only problem i ran into last time with them they wanted so small it wa hard to make money on them.

A black light might help on the food costs. No air pumps needed so it something to think about.

Edited April 2, 2013 by ray23

[RedBullHorn]

There was a wholesaler who told me to rear for him size #6,7,8 or he threatens to boycott me whenever i harvest.

I politely suggested that he supply me all the feed necessary (on credit) to feed them to his required size (openly insulted him ! meaning to tell him to Fock off !) Others laught ... because they know you will not survive with this sizes...

The rest of the flock later told me they boycotted him.

Produce good quality size fish, everybody will support you.

It's just a game, farm politic, you need to be able to handle all the hurdles.

Edited April 2, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[ray23]

Well I did the second salt threatment one kilo, per week. Die off slowed down so I put in another kilo today. How far can I go with this until I might damage the pond? So at this point three kilos of salt.

Staying up with dolomite.

Edited April 4, 2013 by ray23

[cycloneJ]

Don't know if you've seen the news here in Adelaide David but fish have been dying on our beaches due to only a slight increase of water temps of only a couple degrees. There's been hundreds washing up.

Is that a possibility at the farm?

river farming - see this article in Thai news, from Nakhon Sawan, day temps 40C

[RedBullHorn]

Well I did the second salt threatment one kilo, per week. Die off slowed down so I put in another kilo today. How far can I go with this until I might damage the pond? So at this point three kilos of salt.

Staying up with dolomite.

1. How big is you pond, size,

2. water depth, hight measurement from mud bed.

Provide the above mention information so i could give you the appropriate usage...

[ray23]

Well I did the second salt threatment one kilo, per week. Die off slowed down so I put in another kilo today. How far can I go with this until I might damage the pond? So at this point three kilos of salt.

Staying up with dolomite.

1. How big is you pond, size,

2. water depth, hight measurement from mud bed.

Provide the above mention information so i could give you the appropriate usage...

The pond is 1/4 Ria about 1& 1/2 meter depth. Never had salt added before startimg this time. Just an aside th bottom is rock not mud

Thanks

Ray