Fish Farming ... When It Goes Belly Up

[DonaldBattles]

Fish farming is really enjoyable. I think that thanks to you guys and your experience one day I will make some money at it. My wife needs the money for a lot of reasons. You would expect a Thai woman to think like this. Enough is never enough. I have increased her budget to 30 Baht per day for guy yang and khao neo. Damn, this comes up to 900 Baht per month. "I rather have tried and failed than never have failed at all"

One day we will have a big fish cook off here. We can steam, boil or cook southern style fried catfish, cole slaw and hush puppies. For the Brits we can make some chips also. I just ground a new batch of corn meal to send to Foodland in Bangkok and will hold some back for corn bread and hushpuppies.

[David48]

^^ For me ... 'hush puppies' are a shoe.

The sole of which equates to how good I can cook.

MissFarmGirl reckons I can burn water ...

.

[DonaldBattles]

The next life you may come back as a redneck and you will welcome good food. Hush puppies are made from cornmeal, eggs, salt pepper, onions and, jalapenos and or chopped green sweet peppers. Then they are rolled into balls about 2 inches in diameter and deep fried. Very low on cholesterol.

Can't believe you have lived this long and been deprived of some gourmet foods. There is still hope for you.

[David48]

[DonaldBattles]

A great photo of good food and a puppy that is hushed. Wihout coleslaw and fried fish the puppies have trouble standing alone.

When my 5,000 catfish get big enough to eat I shall post a photo with a full plate of food. For now they are eating me out of a house and home. Will change food now to medium sized pellets at about 25% protein. The prices in Wiang Chai seem to be the best I have found. Will also look for some spotted feather clown knife fish. My wife says they use these to make fish balls a lot.

[ray23]

well so far I haven't been in it long enough to know much. at least I find new mistakes. So far I have lost money on fish, for the two years I have kept records. If I don't show a profit this year. I will stick to my plarooms that do make money year round.

Just run a few fish for fishing from time to time. But I have a lot in the water right now so maybe. The most enjoyable time has been when the Thai's come fishing they really get excited.

With the money in the Pla Mor I just sepnt going to take a pretty good year to end up with a profit. I'm learnign to, listen less and less to Thai's, who don't have fish farms.

I have to say you want to learn this is the place. So we will see what happens I wasn't kidding about the cat fish. No way I'm running three years for Pla Mor. Might be time to Give RBH's theory on Cat Fish a serious shot. a 1,000 n baht on cat fish is only two bags of food for the Pla Mor. So I'm a thinking

[RedBullHorn]

It will be seriously difficult to make money on Pla Mor... otherwise i would have done it, base on feasibility.

If i were you, i would just concentrate on developing and expanding your mushroom business to a point that it generate an income monthly/yearly. The mushroom market is your strength while fish farming is your weakness. Base on your location, fingerling source, high protein level feed source (30%-32%), farmgate price, wholesalers and market... Clearly you're losing a lot of edges here.

The "Maximizing trick" isn't a theory. I'm still making money with this formula... and will continue doing so.

Edited August 27, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[ray23]

It will be seriously difficult to make money on Pla Mor... otherwise i would have done it, base on feasibility.

If i were you, i would just concentrate on developing and expanding your mushroom business to a point that it generate an income monthly/yearly. The mushroom market is your strength while fish farming is your weakness. Base on your location, fingerling source, high protein level feed source (30%-32%), farmgate price, wholesalers and market... Clearly you're losing a lot of edges here.

The "Maximizing trick" isn't a theory. I'm still making money with this formula... and will continue doing so.

Trust me I leaning that way, just finish off what I got this year. I believe you coudn't think of the proper wording. We paid 510 for 37% haven't sent the brother in law yet to rebuy he got 25% for 90 baht less then we do.

I thought a good time to experiment with cat fish, got lots of food in the pond.

Thanks at best the fish will be a hobby,

Money is in plarooms.

[RedBullHorn]

ray23... You really need to find a way to get hold of 30% protein. In my own opinion (as catfish farmer) 25% is a waste of money, up here in the Northern region, we all know it as a fact (catfishes farmers) and we only stick to 30% protein level from proven brands. Just a note~

[tingtong]

Ray,

catfish will happily eat your mushrooms bits and scrappings, and they are high in protein too...moreover free in your case.

[DonaldBattles]

At the fisheries location in Wiang Chia (big building with blue roof) they have a new brand of medium pellets 30 percent protein now and it is 480 Baht per bag. Before it was 500 Baht using the Betagro brand. Have not found it cheaper than this. Feeding catfish and pla tab tim is an expensive process.

[tingtong]

sometimes getting a cheaper price is trying to negotiate with the shop buying a certain number of bags together....

ie, ask them if you take 20-50 bags, will they give some discount?

(i dont know how much feed you use, if this is a viable way).

you pay up front for a ton of feed, might get 10-20thb discount a bag (maybe more?), and often free home delivery can be included too.

if you have place to store, and feed about this amount in say 2 months ( within expiration date), than you have a deal of 2-4% discount on your hand.

not much, but all counts, and your money in the bank wouldnt earn 2-4% in 2 months time anyway

some time back we were able to knock off 10% on the feed cost buying 60 bags a time, delivered ....

[ray23]

RHB we found 37% in the small pellets when I buy 510 baht a bag. Next time I will send the brother in law and see waht kind of price we get. So far he has purchased at a lessopr price then we can get.

I'm assuming the size of the pellets is not crucial?

These days the worm farm is taking care of moost of the mushroom scraps.

Ting Tong we have done that is the past with ten bag lots. We have an eclosed storage for up to a 100 bags. But, I don't know how long they will last while they are sealed?

That I believe I can buy from the distributor in Bangkok as a minimum purchase.

Edited August 30, 2013 by ray23

[tingtong]

Ray,

the expirartion date is printed on all the feed bags, usually also the manufacturing date too.

normally i believe expiration date is 3 months.

that doesnt mean you cant feed after, but means best before!

it is good idea to have a look in the shop on the date, sometimes they carry old/expired staff too!

i am sure the Udon distributor/a larger feed shop can do a deal for you, probably if you offer to buy 50 bags. i dont think Bkk will do much good to you in this case, as that 50 bags is a pickup load, and bkk is far away from you

[DonaldBattles]

Typically the small pellets are more expensive than the medium and large. The bags tell you to only use the small pellets until the fish are 45 days old.

It is hard to beat these people on price as they are very competitive. However, 510 for 37% for small pellets is the best I have heard of and have not seen in Chiang Rai.

[ray23]

So far all I have found in 30% range are the small pellets

The distributor will deliver to Udon, but you hvae to pay for the delievery. Talking about roughly 500 klms for Bangkok.

It just a bit more expensive then 25%.

100 bags with my operation that would take at least a year to consum That would make for a long shelve time. That would be 40 kilos a week. Only have 2500 fish with both ponds. I can increase the density. But, that comes wiht it;s own problems. RBH's method would help with that, if I can get away with the same thing with Pla Nin.

I will give the brother in law shot at negoiating a bigger buy and see what happens

[ozzydom]

Profitability in fish farming is as much governed by how much you save in production as the market price you receive.

To this end I only feed our Tilapia with 15.5 % pellets in very small amounts.

With Tab Tim and Tilapia ,unless you have a good all year market or sell bulk I see no sense in tossing away good cash in the form of hi-protein pellets.

It has been well established that the growth rate of these varieties in green water only varies by about a month from fingerling to market size fed pellets or not so unless time is of the essence ,why waste money.

I adjust the algael levels of the ponds to have a bloom on 15-20% of the surface by weekly monitoring fertilizer addition,

There are at present a bio mass of approx 7500 kg in our ponds and they are fed 20kg once a day in total purely as a training tool for catching when we start to sell.

Our average growth rate is approx 80-90 grams per month under our regime.

We could certainly grow them quicker but as our prime selling season is only 7 months of the year we have no reason to intensively feed.

7-9 tonnes is our maximum capacity so my objective is to do the best nett return on what we can market.

[David48]

ozzydom (od) is an old hand here on the Forum ... he used to be a Moderator (hence the honorary member in Green) and has seen a lot of things I presume.

For those who don't know, od employs a different method of feeding the PlaNin by first developing an algae 'bloom' within the pond and the PlaNin then feed on the Pond's algae with occasional supplementary pellet feeding.

Some time ago he wrote an excellent thread on his method here at ... setting-up-ponds-for-farming-pla-nin ... well worth a read if you haven't before.

Mate, I hope I explained that properly!

.

[RedBullHorn]

Pla Nin, Tab Tim feed requirement are different from Pla Duk and use different type of feed totally.

Pla Nin are screen feeders and water plants eaters, their feed pellets are produce based on herbivorous ingredients. Recommended protein range is 15-18% protein level after reaching stage 3 and through the rest of the rearing period, pellets size - big. Under fair growing conditions in ponds, Pla Nin reaches sexual maturity in about 8 months, weighing half a kilo.

Pla Duk, Pla Chon and Pla Bu (Marbled Sand Goby) are carnivorous, thier feed pellets are based on omnivorous ingredients with a fair amount of trashfish meal. Recommended protein range is 35% protein level for starter fingerlings size 1.5''-2'', 2''- 3''. 32% protein with starter fingerlings of 3''- 4'' and 30% protein after reaching stage 2 and through the rest of the rearing period, pellets size - 35% sesame seed size, 32% small and 30% medium size. Under fair growing conditions in ponds, Pla Duk reaches sexual maturity in about 3-4 months, weighing 3 fishes/kg to half a kilo.

Algea bloom AKA The Green Water System, is a food source for Pla Nin and Tab Tim... but for Pla Duk it represent a problem.

Farming Pla Nin is totally a different ball game in comparison to farming Pla Duk.

Choose your requirement carefully, if you choose to farm Pla Duk... You can't go the cheap charlie way.

Edited August 30, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[ozzydom]

Pla Nin, Tab Tim feed requirement are different from Pla Duk and use different type of feed totally.

Pla Nin are screen feeders and water plants eaters, their feed pellets are produce based on herbivorous ingredients. Recommended protein range is 15-18% protein level after reaching stage 3 and through the rest of the rearing period, pellets size - big. Under fair growing conditions in ponds, Pla Nin reaches sexual maturity in about 8 months, weighing half a kilo.

Pla Duk, Pla Chon and Pla Bu (Marbled Sand Goby) are carnivorous, thier feed pellets are based on omnivorous ingredients with a fair amount of trashfish meal. Recommended protein range is 35% protein level for starter fingerlings size 1.5''-2'', 2''- 3''. 32% protein with starter fingerlings of 3''- 4'' and 30% protein after reaching stage 2 and through the rest of the rearing period, pellets size - 35% sesame seed size, 32% small and 30% medium size. Under fair growing conditions in ponds, Pla Duk reaches sexual maturity in about 3-4 months, weighing 3 fishes/kg to half a kilo.

Algea bloom AKA The Green Water System, is a food source for Pla Nin and Tab Tim... but for Pla Duk it represent a problem.

Farming Pla Nin is totally a different ball game in comparison to farming Pla Duk.

Choose your requirement carefully, if you choose to farm Pla Duk... You can't go the cheap charlie way.

All so true mate,thats why ,in the 3rd line of my post I specified my method pertains to Tilapia /Tab Tim and probably other omniverous and herbivore species.

[ozzydom]

ozzydom (od) is an old hand here on the Forum ... he used to be a Moderator (hence the honorary member in Green) and has seen a lot of things I presume.

For those who don't know, od employs a different method of feeding the PlaNin by first developing an algae 'bloom' within the pond and the PlaNin then feed on the Pond's algae with occasional supplementary pellet feeding.

Some time ago he wrote an excellent thread on his method here at ... setting-up-ponds-for-farming-pla-nin ... well worth a read if you haven't before.

Mate, I hope I explained that properly!

.

Pretty much sums it up David,the application of Phosphorous also promotes a healthy environment for a good population of micro-organisms and plankton which are Tilapias natural diet and very high in protein.

[ozzydom]

Came across a sad (to me anyway) sight at the local market this morning.

Here was a Thai guy chopping up a Giant Mekong Catfish ,The head and gills ,cut into about 1kg chunks covered a 4 foot x 4 foot pallet and the body that was whole was on a large trolley and measured 1.9 metres from tail to the back of the gills.

Guy said it was netted near Nong Khai,really sad to see such a magnificent animal being hacked up and sold for 200 baht kg.

[ray23]

ozzydom (od) is an old hand here on the Forum ... he used to be a Moderator (hence the honorary member in Green) and has seen a lot of things I presume.

For those who don't know, od employs a different method of feeding the PlaNin by first developing an algae 'bloom' within the pond and the PlaNin then feed on the Pond's algae with occasional supplementary pellet feeding.

Some time ago he wrote an excellent thread on his method here at ... setting-up-ponds-for-farming-pla-nin ... well worth a read if you haven't before.

Mate, I hope I explained that properly!

.

Actually I went back to that thread this morning, to confim the right fertlizer to buy..

We've done that is the past and it worked just fine. Although I do feed a bit more Fish Food then Dom.

The big question left for me if I can't find a 30% in large pellets with Pla Mor and Pla Duk can i stay with the small pellets at 37%?

Beleive me I have looked everywhere I can think of, just not around Udon

[DonaldBattles]

Is it my correct understanding that you need to get the algae growing before you put the baby fish in. I have about 3000 Tab Tin and Nin in my upper lake. Would like to use the green water approach but not sure at this stage.The baby fish are about 8 weeks old. If it is feasible at this stage how would I get it started with fertilizer.

[ozzydom]

Is it my correct understanding that you need to get the algae growing before you put the baby fish in. I have about 3000 Tab Tin and Nin in my upper lake. Would like to use the green water approach but not sure at this stage.The baby fish are about 8 weeks old. If it is feasible at this stage how would I get it started with fertilizer.

What is the size of the pond in question DB?

[ray23]

We have added fertiziler with fish in the pond, just a little At time.

I reread the post no option so I will stay with the 37% small pellets for Pla Dukand 16.5 % for Pla Nin

Edited August 30, 2013 by ray23

[RedBullHorn]

If you can't get 30% then you will have the only choice of 25% that is available to you. Too costly to use 37% through out the rearing period. As for using 25% through out till harvest, based on your cost of ฿470/sack, it will lower your profit margin significantly in the long run due to longer rearing period to achieve marketable sizes...

about 5 months.

[DonaldBattles]

My pond under consideration for green water with 3000 fish is about 3/4 of a Rai.

[ozzydom]

My pond under consideration for green water with 3000 fish is about 3/4 of a Rai.

My advise would be to add 30 kg of 16-20-0 rabbit brand fertilizer to 1200 sq m pond.

Considering the fish are in situ, I would dissolve 10kg per day each second day.I find the best way is to use a pump putting a stream of water through a 3 inch pipe into the pond. Simply put 10 kg of fertilizer into a fine mesh bag and hang it from a pole driven into the water about a metre in front of the water stream this helps circulate the fert around the pond.

Greening should start about 5 days after the final application.

As a word of caution I would add that imho you have overstocked by quite a margin.

3000 fry do not look many but once they start to grow I really think you will need aeration 24/7.

If you have electricity on site this is not a huge problem and can be aerated for about 5000 baht.

More on the aeration if you decide you need it

3000 growing fish can foul a smallish pond pretty quickly, so the capacity to do water changes is very important.

[ray23]

16-20-0 That is what I had to look up this morning, should have just waited

Thanks RBH, I will continue to try to find 30%, thanks I will stick with 25% after the 45 day period adn we will see what happens. It seems when the Thai's locally Buy Pla Mor they are about four inches in length. If I don't have that in five months going to be a lot of cat fish food in that pond.

That may happen earler depening on what I see. I will do a test catch three months out, then hopefully I will know what to do. I'm intent on trying the overstocking method with cat fish. People make a few baht at it I just have to find what will work for me. The Pla Mor don't seem to be heavy eaters. The food floats through the day they eat it. But no swarming it like you see with pla Duk and Pla Nin

I think the best I can do for the moment is see if the shop will order 30% in large pellets for me.

Any 30% in your area Dom?

I'm really gun shy of trying to store a 100 bags for a year.

Edited August 30, 2013 by ray23