Of Men And Monks …

[David48]

Of men and Monks …

Well, I have a slightly different day planned today.

In the home country we have a local Temple. Draw a mental picture of a converted house
with a few men in saffron robes. Lot’s of aspiration to build a more tradition place of
worship. But the spiritualism comes from the heart and not the building … so, for the moment,

it’s a simple gathering place.

In a foreign country and without a car, presumably the Thai Monks very rarely travel, so,

when one visit I suggested to the Thai girlfriend (Miss M)

... let's take them sightseeing ... bet they don't often get to do that.

No, can not ... was the reply

Sure, can, just ask them ... I said.

No, can not ... was the 2^nd reply

Worried that I was dating a broken record, I shuffled over to a lady monk.
Easy to distinguish from the men as she was dressed in white, like a nurse
without the red stripes.

You can imagine Miss M’s horror when Florence Nightingale dragged us both
before the two saffron clad monks and regaled my plan.

Miss M always wanted to have white skin ... well she got it that day as the
blood drained from her face, visibly white, then red and within 20 mins had
recovered back to her beautiful coffee coloured pigment when the unanimous
answer was yes ... we'd love to accompany you sightseeing.

Old Florence then piped up and asked just how large my car was.

So ... I had a choice ... 16 vestal virgins or two guys in coloured
bed-sheets wearing no underwear and walking around in Jesus shoes.

Well, the boys won the day ... and I won the hearts of everyone there and Miss M

got lots of 'you lucky lady. Have handsom man, jai dee muk marrk'

Ok, OK ... I adlibbed the 'handsom man' comment ... but the rest of the
story is kosher.

So, today, if the rain stays away ... it's off to the rainforest we go.

Handsom man at the wheel, two excited snap-happy Monks as tourists ... and a
very nervous passenger named Miss M who will be sweating everyone of my
movements as to make sure I don't offend Bhudda's journeymen today.

I presume then Miss M ... a refreshment stop at the Pub on the way home is
out of the question?

So, my question I would ask is ... do you think Thai people are unduly deferential

to monks and forget that they are people just the same as them?

.

[BookMan]

Look forward to the pictures of you guys at the fun park

[wayned]

I think that Thai people, especially my wife, forget that they are real people as long as they are wearing the safron robes, BUT:

A few year ago there was a shindig at our local temple where many of the head monks from diffent temples were there. After it was over my wife asked me to take one of the monks back to his temple, about 30 kilometers away. I agreed, and after stopping at 4 different places for him to buy things we arrived and bid him fairwell. He was former neighbor and had been head monk for about 12 years.

About a week later, I was asleep in bed and my wife woke me up and told me that my "friend" was outside and wanted to drink with me. I asked who, she said go look. I looked and saw a girl and a man sitting in the gazebo but didn't recognize them. She then told me that it was the monk that I had driven to the temple. I said monks aren't supposed to drink. She told me that he had quit the monkhood fearing that his girlfriend would marry someone else. So I went and drank with him.

They got married, had a child, and now he is the biggest alcoholic in the village. Guess that they are "real people"! True story!

[villagefarang]

Your girlfriend sounds quite traditional and correct in her reluctance to socialize with monks. It is seen a bad form for a woman to be riding around in a car with a monk or doing anything with a monk for that matter. When monks are collected and driven to a ceremony outside the temple, it is always a man who picks them up.

Monks are also supposed to be dedicated to the disciplines of the religion and less attached to the material and social aspects of society. You could be seen as corrupting them, in a way. Then again they could be using the whole monk thing as a way to get a visa, so no real harm done.

In Thailand though, I would suggest you listen to your girlfriend if she insists that somethings are just not done.

[muythai2013]

my wifes brother gets about a bit, last year he was in Burma, then India and now japan.

better believe i'm not shouting him to those places.

[villagefarang]

Regardless of what one thinks of monks, knowing how to behave in Thailand will earn you many points with the locals.

Overseas is different in my opinion and a little shock therapy is in order when a Thai girl is on her first overseas trip. Pointing out certain behaviors that are deemed normal in the West but frowned upon in Thailand may help them to understand that many things are arbitrary and culturally based. Then again it may not.

[Robby nz]

See a lot of monks around and rarely see a smile among them.

Makes me wonder if they, specially the older ones are happy with the life they have chosen ( presuming they made the choice,) for themselves.

Also wonder what if anything they expect to get out the life they have led.

Would it be to come back in a future life as something, someone better?

If so it seems to me a bad bet to spend your life on your knees in prayer for something that may or may not exist.

But then to do the praying bit you would have to believe.

This of course goes for any religion most of which seem to offer you a heaven or paradise and threaten with a hell.

Think I will continue to try to make the most of what I have and not put any faith in another life.

[simple1]

OP: Respect should be earned by members of the Sangha. Unfortunately many aspects of Theravada Buddhism in Thailand have been corrupted, especially the encouragement of "making merit" for personal gain.

As a broad generalisation, in my opinion, Thai people are unduly deferential to this institutionalised belief system. However, it appears to provide Thais a sense of belonging to the Nation and or the local community so I guess no harm done.

For some relevant commentary on Buddhism in Thailand, you may like to go to the following URL:

http://buddhaspace.blogspot.com/2013/02/thai-buddhism-land-of-buddha.html

[cup-O-coffee]

So, my question I would ask is ... do you think Thai people are unduly deferential to monks and forget that they are people just the same as them?

I think you give Thai people too much credit for being the kind of people who embrace the higher levels of consciousness. I think the thoughts of the Thai people, in general, do not go beyond what's directly under their nose at the appointed time, or beyond their stomach growling and pursuing their feelings of hunger - and upon leaving the presence of something that triggers their behavior (such as a wat or a monk) they immediately begin focusing on thoughts of lotteries, money, football, skin-whitening cream, etc, etc; anything that has to do with self gratification or self-pity.

I also think it does not matter whether the monk is concrete, flesh and blood, or gold-plated granite. The Thais will use the opportunity to act out (to save FACE or earn merit in their deceived, superstitious little minds) and then immediately go back to their lunatic mode once the coast is clear.

Regarding the monks being people just the same as they are, I think you touched on a great point that is overlooked the majority of the time: Monks are Thais. That really says a lot for these bums (in my emphatic opinion) who play dress up for two years, or go on to live the rest of their lives acting like something they are not but reaping the benefits at the expense of many poor, illiterate, uneducated and superstitious acolytes. But isn't that what Thais are all about; acting like something they are not in an effort to deceive others; hiding behind lies in order to present a world full of lies and half-truths? Generally speaking of course.

Religion is like skin whitening cream. You are brainwashed into believing that you cannot be happy the way you are. It teaches you that you are inadequate without it and should feel shame if you don't buy into its performance-based-acceptance scheme, which relies upon your vanity or guilt to perpetuate its existence.

Edited March 12, 2013 by cup-O-coffee

[rattler]

So, my question I would ask is ... do you think Thai people are unduly deferential to monks and forget that they are people just the same as them?

I think you give Thai people too much credit for being the kind of people who embrace the higher levels of consciousness. I think the thoughts of the Thai people, in general, do not go beyond what's directly under their nose at the appointed time, or beyond their stomach growling and pursuing their feelings of hunger - and upon leaving the presence of something that triggers their behavior (such as a wat or a monk) they immediately begin focusing on thoughts of lotteries, money, football, skin-whitening cream, etc, etc; anything that has to do with self gratification or self-pity.

I also think it does not matter whether the monk is concrete, flesh and blood, or gold-plated granite. The Thais will use the opportunity to act out (to save FACE or earn merit in their deceived, superstitious little minds) and then immediately go back to their lunatic mode once the coast is clear.

Regarding the monks being people just the same as they are, I think you touched on a great point that is overlooked the majority of the time: Monks are Thais. That really says a lot for these bums (in my emphatic opinion) who play dress up for two years, or go on to live the rest of their lives acting like something they are not but reaping the benefits at the expense of many poor, illiterate, uneducated and superstitious acolytes. But isn't that what Thais are all about; acting like something they are not in an effort to deceive others; hiding behind lies in order to present a world full of lies and half-truths? Generally speaking of course.

Religion is like skin whitening cream. You are brainwashed into believing that you cannot be happy the way you are. It teaches you that you are inadequate without it and should feel shame if you don't buy into its performance-based-acceptance scheme, which relies upon your vanity or guilt to perpetuate its existence.

I dont know about +1 more like +100

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Don't monks get free transportation in Thailand? Not airplanes but I think everything else like busses and Songthaw's right?

It seems there is a real range of monks. Very smiley ones with great energy to really colossal douche bags.

I guess its good to make the effort at least to refine oneself. Just think if they didn't study?

[FrisoPee]

Don't monks get free transportation in Thailand? Not airplanes but I think everything else like busses and Songthaw's right?

It seems there is a real range of monks. Very smiley ones with great energy to really colossal douche bags.

I guess its good to make the effort at least to refine oneself. Just think if they didn't study?

Not always the case, some Monks do have to pay.

[Ministry of Som Tam]

I think that Thai people, especially my wife, forget that they are real people as long as they are wearing the safron robes, BUT:

A few year ago there was a shindig at our local temple where many of the head monks from diffent temples were there. After it was over my wife asked me to take one of the monks back to his temple, about 30 kilometers away. I agreed, and after stopping at 4 different places for him to buy things we arrived and bid him fairwell. He was former neighbor and had been head monk for about 12 years.

About a week later, I was asleep in bed and my wife woke me up and told me that my "friend" was outside and wanted to drink with me. I asked who, she said go look. I looked and saw a girl and a man sitting in the gazebo but didn't recognize them. She then told me that it was the monk that I had driven to the temple. I said monks aren't supposed to drink. She told me that he had quit the monkhood fearing that his girlfriend would marry someone else. So I went and drank with him.

They got married, had a child, and now he is the biggest alcoholic in the village. Guess that they are "real people"! True story!

Is that a 'Thai style' happy ending then,apart from the other obvious one?

[Ministry of Som Tam]

Your girlfriend sounds quite traditional and correct in her reluctance to socialize with monks. It is seen a bad form for a woman to be riding around in a car with a monk or doing anything with a monk for that matter. When monks are collected and driven to a ceremony outside the temple, it is always a man who picks them up.

Monks are also supposed to be dedicated to the disciplines of the religion and less attached to the material and social aspects of society. You could be seen as corrupting them, in a way. Then again they could be using the whole monk thing as a way to get a visa, so no real harm done.

In Thailand though, I would suggest you listen to your girlfriend if she insists that somethings are just not done.

I would imagine that most of what you have just posted goes against just about every single teaching in Buddhism!

Remind me,Thailand is a Buddhist Nation,isn't it?

[David48]

Just back from the afternoon with the Monks.

We couldn't leave before 12.30 as that is when they had finished their meal.

I've read the comments above and some genuinely deserving of a reply ...

if just to place them in the context of what we shared today.

Can't do it now though and will respond in the morning.

Our trip today was to show some of the nature of my area.

The first photo from today ...

[David48]

See a lot of monks around and rarely see a smile among them.

Seems happy enough.

Must have been one of those 'rare' Monks

.

[BookMan]

See a lot of monks around and rarely see a smile among them.

DSCF9507 C.jpg

Seems happy enough.

Must have been one of those 'rare' Monks

.

And damn tootin he is happy, he'll be having horse for dinner tonight

[David48]

See a lot of monks around and rarely see a smile among them.

DSCF9507 C.jpg

Seems happy enough.

Must have been one of those 'rare' Monks

.

And damn tootin he is happy, he'll be having horse for dinner tonight

This isn't TESCO in Europe you know ...

.

[BookMan]

How was the communication with the Monks and yourself David48?

[David48]

How was the communication with the Monks and yourself David48?

The older Monk understood slow and clear English pretty good.

The younger Monk (photo above) ... less so.

Miss M translated all day.

They really enjoyed being one with Nature ...

.

[h90]

"I presume then Miss M ... a refreshment stop at the Pub on the way home is

out of the question?"

I recall when my staff asked the strict Muslim how about going out drinking......

But it might make the Miss upset if you go drinking with monks....

[kevvy]

See a lot of monks around and rarely see a smile among them.

DSCF9507 C.jpg

Seems happy enough.

Must have been one of those 'rare' Monks

.

I have seen many rare monks to , every Sunday morning at the temple , very nice people , as there is a huge market there starting at 6.00am with all trash and treasure stuff(so cheap) old radio's car parts everything as well as the freshest veggies and meat

[chickenslegs]

Just back from the afternoon with the Monks.

We couldn't leave before 12.30 as that is when they had finished their meal.

I've read the comments above and some genuinely deserving of a reply ...

if just to place them in the context of what we shared today.

Can't do it now though and will respond in the morning.

Our trip today was to show some of the nature of my area.

The first photo from today ...

LR DSCF9470.jpg

Socks and sandals - OMB

[hookedondhamma]

Just back from the afternoon with the Monks.

We couldn't leave before 12.30 as that is when they had finished their meal.

I've read the comments above and some genuinely deserving of a reply ...

if just to place them in the context of what we shared today.

Can't do it now though and will respond in the morning.

Our trip today was to show some of the nature of my area.

The first photo from today ...

LR DSCF9470.jpg

Socks and sandals - OMB

Yep, socks and sandals.People wear them when they are cold, or whatever other reason . And don't forget, monks are people, too. You should check out some of the photos from the temples in England. They have sweatshirts sometimes to stay warm.

Edited March 12, 2013 by hookedondhamma

[rookball]

there are many different type of monks i think. maybe someone more knowledgeable could clarify. some are so strict that they arent suppose to wear shoes i think and i see them walking around the hot tarmac barefooted

[chickenslegs]

Just back from the afternoon with the Monks.

We couldn't leave before 12.30 as that is when they had finished their meal.

I've read the comments above and some genuinely deserving of a reply ...

if just to place them in the context of what we shared today.

Can't do it now though and will respond in the morning.

Our trip today was to show some of the nature of my area.

The first photo from today ...

LR DSCF9470.jpg

Socks and sandals - OMB

Yep, socks and sandals.People wear them when they are cold, or whatever other reason . And don't forget, monks are people, too. You should check out some of the photos from the temples in England. They have sweatshirts sometimes to stay warm.

The smiley was there to indicate a lighthearted comment. My real issue with the monk's attire is that he seems to be carrying some sort of phallus under his left arm.

[hookedondhamma]

Just back from the afternoon with the Monks.

We couldn't leave before 12.30 as that is when they had finished their meal.

I've read the comments above and some genuinely deserving of a reply ...

if just to place them in the context of what we shared today.

Can't do it now though and will respond in the morning.

Our trip today was to show some of the nature of my area.

The first photo from today ...

LR DSCF9470.jpg

Socks and sandals - OMB

Yep, socks and sandals.People wear them when they are cold, or whatever other reason . And don't forget, monks are people, too. You should check out some of the photos from the temples in England. They have sweatshirts sometimes to stay warm.

The smiley was there to indicate a lighthearted comment. My real issue with the monk's attire is that he seems to be carrying some sort of phallus under his left arm.

oh, even though i can't make it out, penis amulets are fairly common here; I have seen some people, and monks as well, with gigantic ones. For defense, maybe?

[chris1dna]

What county is this David?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[chris1dna]

How was the communication with the Monks and yourself David48?

The older Monk understood slow and clear English pretty good.

The younger Monk (photo above) ... less so.

Miss M translated all day.

They really enjoyed being one with Nature ...

.

What country is this in David?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[David48]

Your girlfriend sounds quite traditional and correct in her reluctance to socialize with monks. It is seen a bad form for a woman to be riding around in a car with a monk or doing anything with a monk for that matter. When monks are collected and driven to a ceremony outside the temple, it is always a man who picks them up.

Monks are also supposed to be dedicated to the disciplines of the religion and less attached to the material and social aspects of society. You could be seen as corrupting them, in a way. Then again they could be using the whole monk thing as a way to get a visa, so no real harm done.

In Thailand though, I would suggest you listen to your girlfriend if she insists that somethings are just not done.

So much to reply to and nowhere better to start with then VF's comments ...

My lady ... traditional Thai and practising Buddhist. Not uber religious ... but mainstream for want of a better definition.

I asked her about the comment you made about nor being driven around with a Monk in that car and her response was that ...

... both Monks sat in the back, I drove and she was the passenger in the front.

Due to the Monks friendly but respectful attitude, there were no real nervous moments. When the camera was handed from the Monk to Miss M for a photo, it was either passed through my hands or cradled in his cloth so no contact was made.

We didn't take them to a theme park or the ilk ... but to a National Park / Nature reserve ... it seemed fitting.

The Monks are the Temple Monks and live at the Temple 24/7. They are the spiritual guidance for the Thai Community in the City that I live so no ... their Visa is not a sham ... surprised that you would pen that comment ... without asking the whole story ...

.