Abhisit's Key Goal Is Ousting Thaksin From Politics

[jayboy]

While your post tackles one of the acknowledged weaknesses of democracy, be prepared for flames from the "one man, one vote" simplistic view "democrats". Ideally democracy should have an educated and informed populace who elect respected (and respectable) people to make decisions in the best interest of the country.

Any attempt to restrict/remove the voting rights of the uneducated, ill-informed or stupid will be branded as elitism.Sadly, there will be little attempt to improve the "quality" of electors, to restrict populist vote-buying or outright vote-buying by a government that used those flaws to get themselves elected.

It's significant that you regard any view that you disagree with as "flaming".

It is more significant that your reading/comprehension skills don't allow you to understand that any flaming would be for the prior poster's radical views. My post was intended to acknowledge the problem, and point out the problems associated with addressing it. I did not advocate those views (or refer to any specific country) or advance any argument (as you mis-state).

What a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive..

You say you expressed a view and justified it,

"While your post tackles one of the acknowledged weaknesses of

democracy, be prepared for flames from the "one man, one vote"

simplistic view "democrats". Ideally democracy should have an educated

and informed populace who elect respected (and respectable) people to

make decisions in the best interest of the country."

but it wasn't actually your view just someone else's you were responding to on his behalf.

Needless to say you don't respond to my main set of propositions, whether on your own behalf or someone else's.

What bloody deceit? The post was quite plain and the intent clear - acknowledging a flaw in democracy and that it is both controversial and difficult to overcome. And yes, I do believe that "IDEALLY democracy will have an educated and informed populace........" If you prefer a voting population that is a majority of the uneducated and ill-informed, electing criminals who will cheat and steal because the voters imagine some personal gain, please put forward a valid reason.

i didn't respond to your bombastic propositions because they were of no interest to me, and had nothing to do with my post.

Oh so now you are speaking for yourself.I see the mask has also slipped to show some rather primitive views.I didn't expect a rational or considered response from you.I merely pointed out that the fear of one man one vote based democracy has many historical antecedents.

So does the recognition that the universal right to vote is a weakness. What you describe as primitive is instead a critical look at what is acknowledged as the best system so far devised, but which is far from perfect.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". Winston Churchill

"Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education." Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all." John F. Kennedy

Should I take heed of these men or an over-educated idiot (or 2) with an axe to grind?

None of these leaders would argue against democracy itself, simply that it is a complex imperfect thing.I would also agree with that.

You (like the PAD fascists) appear to be arguing against democracy itself, a principle that FDR,WSC,and JFK were committed to with passion - in knowledge of its imperfections.

And as to whether you should take heed of people better educated and more knowledgeable than yourself? Yes you should.I certainly do.

[Sing_Sling]

It might be a drastic measure but these days we need drastic measures. To stop populism which is basically 100 Baht to all illiterates to place their X in the preferred box the votes should be given to people who at least have a basic understanding of what they are voting for and why they are voting.

OK, voting is already too complicated for some people and it ponders the question if these people should be voting in the first place.

Why not use a simple form with 10 basic but poignant multichoice questions with a pass rate of 7 out of 10. If the people cannot even read or tick the correct boxes, then they shouldn't be allowed to vote. The same questionnaire should be tried on all politicians who must score 10 out of 10.

This can also be tried in other countries e.g. in the US the first question could be "Can you name a country beginning with U". This would stop many people voting who only vote for the prettiest face or "Prolife".

While your post tackles one of the acknowledged weaknesses of democracy, be prepared for flames from the "one man, one vote" simplistic view "democrats". Ideally democracy should have an educated and informed populace who elect respected (and respectable) people to make decisions in the best interest of the country.

Any attempt to restrict/remove the voting rights of the uneducated, ill-informed or stupid will be branded as elitism.

Sadly, there will be little attempt to improve the "quality" of electors, to restrict populist vote-buying or outright vote-buying by a government that used those flaws to get themselves elected.

Ok, OzMick. Let's set the guidelines then.

School - Cranbrook

Home Suburb - Vaucluse

Education - MBA (Bachelor's at UNSW)

If you don't at least equal the above then I deign you not worthy of being able to vote.

Fun, isn't it.

Here's your brand of 'democracy':

It's a pity your education and overwhelming sense of self-worth stops you from reading and comprehending clearly. Nowhere in my post did I agree with the sentiments of the first poster, I simply pointed out that there is this acknowledged flaw in the democratic ideal, but that overcoming it is fraught with difficulties.

If that is too difficult for you to grasp, try GFY.

It seems you were unclear as to what you were trying to say, judging by everyone else's comments.

A bit of introspection may do you some good

[Sing_Sling]

So does the recognition that the universal right to vote is a weakness. What you describe as primitive is instead a critical look at what is acknowledged as the best system so far devised, but which is far from perfect.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". Winston Churchill

"Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education." Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all." John F. Kennedy

Should I take heed of these men or an over-educated idiot (or 2) with an axe to grind?

I get that but what are you suggesting? Smart people get two votes and dumb people only one?

A straight answer will not be forthcoming . . . especially for the 'over-educated idiots'. Quite arrogant, really

[OzMick]

So does the recognition that the universal right to vote is a weakness. What you describe as primitive is instead a critical look at what is acknowledged as the best system so far devised, but which is far from perfect.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". Winston Churchill

"Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education." Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all." John F. Kennedy

Should I take heed of these men or an over-educated idiot (or 2) with an axe to grind?

I get that but what are you suggesting? Smart people get two votes and dumb people only one?

I am not suggesting anything. I pointed out that the problem is recognised but difficult and controversial. For that, I have received a series of posts suggesting that I am an anti-democrat and/or support the post I replied to.

Jboy of course will weasel around continually obfuscate the subject rather than admit that he had a knee-jerk reaction to his mis-reading of my post.

[OzMick]

It's a pity your education and overwhelming sense of self-worth stops you from reading and comprehending clearly. Nowhere in my post did I agree with the sentiments of the first poster, I simply pointed out that there is this acknowledged flaw in the democratic ideal, but that overcoming it is fraught with difficulties.

If that is too difficult for you to grasp, try GFY.

It seems you were unclear as to what you were trying to say, judging by everyone else's comments.

A bit of introspection may do you some good

"Everybody else" is you and the other over-educated idiot. Try a remedial reading course.

[OzMick]

So does the recognition that the universal right to vote is a weakness. What you describe as primitive is instead a critical look at what is acknowledged as the best system so far devised, but which is far from perfect.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". Winston Churchill

"Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education." Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all." John F. Kennedy

Should I take heed of these men or an over-educated idiot (or 2) with an axe to grind?

I get that but what are you suggesting? Smart people get two votes and dumb people only one?

A straight answer will not be forthcoming . . . especially for the 'over-educated idiots'. Quite arrogant, really

I have responded clearly and accurately to your personal attack based on your mis-reading of my post, and to CMK's question.

Phenomenonal eh?

[chiangmaikelly]

So does the recognition that the universal right to vote is a weakness. What you describe as primitive is instead a critical look at what is acknowledged as the best system so far devised, but which is far from perfect.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". Winston Churchill

"Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education." Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all." John F. Kennedy

Should I take heed of these men or an over-educated idiot (or 2) with an axe to grind?

I get that but what are you suggesting? Smart people get two votes and dumb people only one?

I am not suggesting anything. I pointed out that the problem is recognised but difficult and controversial. For that, I have received a series of posts suggesting that I am an anti-democrat and/or support the post I replied to.

Jboy of course will weasel around continually obfuscate the subject rather than admit that he had a knee-jerk reaction to his mis-reading of my post.

I get all that. There were those who when the USA was young suggested only landowners be allowed the vote. It's a real problem. So you had no concrete purpose in quoting all those quotes? You just pulled them out of the air and quoted them with no practical reason for doing so? Did you think we didn't know that democracy was not perfect?

[Sing_Sling]

So does the recognition that the universal right to vote is a weakness. What you describe as primitive is instead a critical look at what is acknowledged as the best system so far devised, but which is far from perfect.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". Winston Churchill

"Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education." Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all." John F. Kennedy

Should I take heed of these men or an over-educated idiot (or 2) with an axe to grind?

I get that but what are you suggesting? Smart people get two votes and dumb people only one?

I am not suggesting anything. I pointed out that the problem is recognised but difficult and controversial. For that, I have received a series of posts suggesting that I am an anti-democrat and/or support the post I replied to.

Jboy of course will weasel around continually obfuscate the subject rather than admit that he had a knee-jerk reaction to his mis-reading of my post.

I get all that. There were those who when the USA was young suggested only landowners be allowed the vote. It's a real problem. So you had no concrete purpose in quoting all those quotes? You just pulled them out of the air and quoted them with no practical reason for doing so? Did you think we didn't know that democracy was not perfect?

I believe he is only interested in insults . . . and then bemoaning being the 'victim'. I don't think I ever crossed swords/words with him before . . . and what has been this time . . . Yes, indeed . . . we are 'over-educated'. . .

[OzMick]

So does the recognition that the universal right to vote is a weakness. What you describe as primitive is instead a critical look at what is acknowledged as the best system so far devised, but which is far from perfect.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". Winston Churchill

"Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education." Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all." John F. Kennedy

Should I take heed of these men or an over-educated idiot (or 2) with an axe to grind?

I get that but what are you suggesting? Smart people get two votes and dumb people only one?

I am not suggesting anything. I pointed out that the problem is recognised but difficult and controversial. For that, I have received a series of posts suggesting that I am an anti-democrat and/or support the post I replied to.

Jboy of course will weasel around continually obfuscate the subject rather than admit that he had a knee-jerk reaction to his mis-reading of my post.

I get all that. There were those who when the USA was young suggested only landowners be allowed the vote. It's a real problem. So you had no concrete purpose in quoting all those quotes? You just pulled them out of the air and quoted them with no practical reason for doing so? Did you think we didn't know that democracy was not perfect?

I was replying to a Jboy post which accused me of holding "some rather primitive views" and which included "the fear of one man one vote based democracy has many historical antecedents."

Most understand that democracy is not perfect. IMHO Democracy in Thailand bears little resemblance to the ideal concept.

[OzMick]

I believe he is only interested in insults . . . and then bemoaning being the 'victim'. I don't think I ever crossed swords/words with him before . . . and what has been this time . . . Yes, indeed . . . we are 'over-educated'. . .

You mis-read my post and immediately replied with an insulting cartoon coupled with boasting related to your privileged childhood. Should I have tugged my forelock while mumbling "Sorry Massa boss"?

[beammeup]

Over educated but lacking a certain insight? Seems like everyone is agreeing but just slinging mud, grow up guys.

[Sing_Sling]

I believe he is only interested in insults . . . and then bemoaning being the 'victim'. I don't think I ever crossed swords/words with him before . . . and what has been this time . . . Yes, indeed . . . we are 'over-educated'. . .

You mis-read my post and immediately replied with an insulting cartoon coupled with boasting related to your privileged childhood. Should I have tugged my forelock while mumbling "Sorry Massa boss"?

An insulting cartoon? Do you think it was about you? Wonderful, simply wonderful.

As for my 'immediately replying to you . . . I would love to know your definition of 'immediate' when you posted your referenced drivel at: OzMick, on 13 Mar 2013 - 10:07, said:

and I replied at: on 13 Mar 2013 - 19:55

I guess I am just 'over-educated' . . .

Speaking of definitions, you do realise that 'Massa Boss' is a tautology . . .

So, why don't you stop fighting with everyone and let's drop this nonsense. Deal?

Edited March 14, 2013 by Sing_Sling

[OzMick]

I believe he is only interested in insults . . . and then bemoaning being the 'victim'. I don't think I ever crossed swords/words with him before . . . and what has been this time . . . Yes, indeed . . . we are 'over-educated'. . .

You mis-read my post and immediately replied with an insulting cartoon coupled with boasting related to your privileged childhood. Should I have tugged my forelock while mumbling "Sorry Massa boss"?

An insulting cartoon? Do you think it was about you? Wonderful, simply wonderful.

As for my 'immediately replying to you . . . I would love to know your definition of 'immediate' when you posted your referenced drivel at: OzMick, on 13 Mar 2013 - 10:07, said:

and I replied at: on 13 Mar 2013 - 19:55

I guess I am just 'over-educated' . . .

Speaking of definitions, you do realise that 'Massa Boss' is a tautology . . .

So, why don't you stop fighting with everyone and let's drop this nonsense. Deal?

How could I possibly think that was about me.

Here's your brand of 'democracy':

Did you post anything intermediate ie between my post and yours? If not, your reply was immediate - a word which has meanings unrelated to time.

Tautology - for emphasis, as used by us "po' white folks" . Also used by those clutching at straws.

A pity your education didn't include comprehension, veracity, logic or apology.

My last comment, I have better things to do tonight.

Edited March 14, 2013 by OzMick

[Jim walker]

It’s good to have a long term ambition in politics something
to motivate you to your eventual goal for the benefit of all the citizens you represent
like running a suitable hate campaign, good old Abhisit a shining light in Thai
politics.

[OZEMADE]

Actually there is a very good opinion article in the other paper. It covers all and most of cover stories on here today, including this article on Abhisit. It also has a bit where the writer states that Abhisit Vejjajiva and Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha should keep quiet, and let Yingluck run the country. I think the wording was something like, shut the <Snip!> up and let her run the country. Have to say I agree with the writers opinion.

Edited March 14, 2013 by metisdead

[waza]

Actually there is a very good opinion article in the other paper. It covers all and most of cover stories on here today, including this article on Abhisit. It also has

a bit where the writer states that Abhisit Vejjajiva and Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha should keep quiet, and let Yingluck run the country. I think the wording was

something like, shut the <Snip!> up and let her run the country. Have to say I agree with the writers opinion.

Trouble is she isnt running the country, you may have missed it but Thaksin has come and publicly declared that he is running the government. Try and keep up Ozemade

[OZEMADE]

Actually there is a very good opinion article in the other paper. It covers all and most of cover stories on here today, including this article on Abhisit. It also has

a bit where the writer states that Abhisit Vejjajiva and Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha should keep quiet, and let Yingluck run the country. I think the wording was

something like, shut the <Snip!> up and let her run the country. Have to say I agree with the writers opinion.

Trouble is she isnt running the country, you may have missed it but Thaksin has come and publicly declared that he is running the government. Try and keep up Ozemade

I said I agree with all of the writers comments. Best you read the article then comment.

[candypants]

Ok, OzMick. Let's set the guidelines then.

School - Cranbrook

Home Suburb - Vaucluse

Education - MBA (Bachelor's at UNSW)

If you don't at least equal the above then I deign you not worthy of being able to vote.

Fun, isn't it.

Here's your brand of 'democracy':

You did miss something, obviously . . . what are you trying to say and what did you do at Cranbroook?

he must of gotten confused and thought this was the place where we post our resumes.

honest mistake

[Sing_Sling]

I believe he is only interested in insults . . . and then bemoaning being the 'victim'. I don't think I ever crossed swords/words with him before . . . and what has been this time . . . Yes, indeed . . . we are 'over-educated'. . .

You mis-read my post and immediately replied with an insulting cartoon coupled with boasting related to your privileged childhood. Should I have tugged my forelock while mumbling "Sorry Massa boss"?

An insulting cartoon? Do you think it was about you? Wonderful, simply wonderful.

As for my 'immediately replying to you . . . I would love to know your definition of 'immediate' when you posted your referenced drivel at: OzMick, on 13 Mar 2013 - 10:07, said:

and I replied at: on 13 Mar 2013 - 19:55

I guess I am just 'over-educated' . . .

Speaking of definitions, you do realise that 'Massa Boss' is a tautology . . .

So, why don't you stop fighting with everyone and let's drop this nonsense. Deal?

How could I possibly think that was about me.

Here's your brand of 'democracy':

Did you post anything intermediate ie between my post and yours? If not, your reply was immediate - a word which has meanings unrelated to time.

Tautology - for emphasis, as used by us "po' white folks" . Also used by those clutching at straws.

A pity your education didn't include comprehension, veracity, logic or apology.

My last comment, I have better things to do tonight.

So now you define the word 'immediate' as a word unrelated to time . . . nice. An education is a wonderful thong - you should get one

So, still nothing . . . no surprise there. Going down punching, sadly you are punchdrunk. So, everyone else is wrong and you are right.

[Gerryasia]

If the democrats would like to get Thaksin out of politics, perhaps they should stop bringing him up!

.

An ostrich burying its head does nothing to protect itself from lions.

.

Probably tastes like chicken.....

[hellodolly]

Actually there is a very good opinion article in the other paper. It covers all and most of cover stories on here today, including this article on Abhisit. It also has a bit where the writer states that Abhisit Vejjajiva and Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha should keep quiet, and let Yingluck run the country. I think the wording was something like, shut the <Snip!> up and let her run the country. Have to say I agree with the writers opinion.

You Are so brain washed by Thaksin that you actually think Yingluck is running the country.

And Abhist should not do his job as the opposition.

Are you a graduate of the red shirt school for democracy?

You sound like one of there graduates who made the honor role.

[GrantSmith]

Are you a graduate of the red shirt school for democracy?

You sound like one of there graduates who made the honor role.

I heard it's the most popular course offered at Shinawatra University...

[metisdead]

A flame post has been removed as well as a series of baiting posts and replies.

[yoshiwara]

Mr Abisit wants to keep Mr Thaksin out of politics, Mr Thaksin wants to keep Mr Abisit out of politics, the ruling party wants to keep everybody out of politics. When is this personal vendetta going to ever stop.

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

[chiangmaikelly]

Mr Abisit wants to keep Mr Thaksin out of politics, Mr Thaksin wants to keep Mr Abisit out of politics, the ruling party wants to keep everybody out of politics. When is this personal vendetta going to ever stop.

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

[jackspratt]

.

Are you a graduate of the red shirt school for democracy?

You sound like one of there graduates who made the honor role.

Umm ....... you don't.

But please keep the epithets flowing - they are terrific, even when read for the 30th or 40th time.

[OzMick]

Mr Abisit wants to keep Mr Thaksin out of politics, Mr Thaksin wants to keep Mr Abisit out of politics, the ruling party wants to keep everybody out of politics. When is this personal vendetta going to ever stop.

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

The only way? Red thought must limit the mind.

[chiangmaikelly]

Mr Abisit wants to keep Mr Thaksin out of politics, Mr Thaksin wants to keep Mr Abisit out of politics, the ruling party wants to keep everybody out of politics. When is this personal vendetta going to ever stop.

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

The only way? Red thought must limit the mind.

Why don't you try without the ad hominum

[Sing_Sling]

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

Mr Abisit wants to keep Mr Thaksin out of politics, Mr Thaksin wants to keep Mr Abisit out of politics, the ruling party wants to keep everybody out of politics. When is this personal vendetta going to ever stop.

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

The only way? Red thought must limit the mind.

Why don't you try without the ad hominum

Can't do without them . . . in any thread it seems.

It's quite simple . . . if Thaksin comes home he should go to prison . . . I wish he would go for more crimes than the ones the courts pronounced him guilty of . . . but a democracy is a democracy and majority rules and all that . . . unless you want to usher in an oligarchy and have the same discussion with OzMick again and again and ag.... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[yoshiwara]

Please try and focus on the topic and avoid personalising the discussion.

You should put that on a post-it note for your fridge.