Meditation

[tatom]

I think most everyone has heard of DVT (deep vein thrombosis). Supposedly, people sitting on long haul flights, can get blood clots from sitting idle, that can dislodge later and cause death.

I dont believe it. If that were true, I would expect people who meditate, would be dropping like flies. Many people meditate in a sitting position that should be even worse for circulation than sitting in an airplane seat. I know many people, especially monks, who sit for several hours a day, and even several days at a time. Other than being quite painful, I havent heard of anyone having any problems.

I would like to know if anyone has any information or comments on this

[sabaijai]

Do we have any data on the rate of DVT among monks who meditate long hours? It might be higher than normal. My impression is that even among long-haul air passengers it's pretty rare, just one of those afflictions westerners like to fret about.

Also on a long-haul flight some passengers might not budge from their seats for 10 hours or more. I don't know of any monks or meditators who would sit that long without a break. The usual regimen is 45-60 minutes of sitting interspersed with walking meditation of a similar or shorter length. I've known a few meditators who would sit as long as 90 minutes at a stretch, never more. This is in the Theravada tradition. I've heard second-hand reports of Tantric Buddhist monks sitting for longer periods.

[deadman]

I sit cross legged for two hours every morning, and would average four hours sitting meditation every day, and I've never died from a (so called) DVT clot 5555. When i began my formal practice, 10 minutes was the maximum i could sit for. I think it's more a matter of the body becoming habituated to the sitting position. As for thai monastics, from childhood, thais sit on floors, hence they usually have less problems becoming accustomed to sitting cross legged for long periods of time. In any case, dying from a DVT clot while sitting in meditation would be a great way to exit this ocean of sorrow.

I would suggest that if any travellors have suffered from this affliction, it was because they were not used to sitting still for long periods of time. Lets face it, the average person is ever on the move, and would rarely be still for longer than 5 or 10 minutes at a time. Sabaijai was right in saying it's just another affliction westerners like to fret about.

metta

dm

[tatom]

Thanks for the replys. Let me clarify one thing. Im not fretting at all, only curious.

Im assuming you havent spent much time upcountry. In the forest tradition, espesially the followers of Achan Mun, it is common to sit in meditation for many hours. Some monks have taken a vow to never sleep and sit all night in meditation. I have seen this myself. I know the abbot of a Khmer temple who sits in meditation for 5 days every month! He said it was allowed to sit for 14 days, but no longer.

Achan Maha Bua of Wat Pa Ban That in Udon, wrote in one of his books about the excruciating leg pain one experiences as his meditation practice advances. He is now over 90 years old and often complains of pain from sitting long periods.

As I said in my original post, I dont believe in DVT and will continue to sit. I just thought it was interesting that sitting in an airplane seat was supposed to be so dangerous.

[sleepyjohn]

I have in my books in England, which I haven't seen for some years, the life story of Xu-Yen or Xu-Yun, also called Empty Cloud.

He was born in about 1840 and died in 1960...yes that's 120 years.

He did pilgimages of many weeks with third step prostrations in the bitter snow..

He became enlightened at the age of 59 at teh moment when a monastery servant dropped a cup and it hit the ground.

At the age of 112 he was beaten up and left for dead by the red guard. He recovered and went on the build three more monasteries.

What I'm getting to is that I remember he meditated for I believe it was 14 days at one stage, he went lame and blind, but recovered.

I might that Goenka replied when asked whether one should sit through pain in sitting "No-one died from having stiff legs".

Are we becoming wimps?

Edited March 18, 2006 by sleepyjohn

[Guest endure]

Recent reseaarch suggests that it's not simply immobilisation but the low pressure and low oxygen environment of flying that increase the risk of DVT:

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=W...sue_and_lack_of

[ourmanflint]

I think endure has it...

this has only really cropped up since airlines banned smoking on flights funnily enough. The reason being, they no longer have air conditioning on airplanes because they were judged unneccessary, and because they can save money by A) not installing them and saving on the extra fuel costs in carrying them. The consequence of which is modern day air recycling which is much cheaper, and just does as it says! During long haul flights O2 levels drop and CO2 levels rise hence DVT.

So meditating in an O2 rich environment should present no problems, plus Lotus position probably does not restrict blood flow to lower legs.

[ThaiPauly]

My Wife recently hurt her leg and upon consultation with a Doctor I posed the question that I was concerned about her making a long haul flight in a few days time.

He told me that "Asian" people do NOT suffer with DTT, something to do with the differences in our physical make up

She made it there and back no problems

So there you go!!!