Enforcement Of Thai Debts On My Way Out?

[JLCrab]

OOPS Rule 19 but I found it.

Edited April 19, 2013 by JLCrab

[Nana Cowboy]

The reason I said this whole thing is a windup is that there is not a Thai landlord in the country that would allow this to happen under any circumstances. Thais are way to smart about money. What I don't get is the motivation for such an elaborate windup. You couldn't even get away with not paying a year's rent in any other country let alone Thailand. Yes the thread goes on

[FunFon]

I love a flutter FunFon....but what's in it for me?

An IOU note?

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Since I know in advance I'd win - if the bet is the veracity of my posts here - I wasn't concerned about that, but good point.

And if the bet is the landlord's been paid off, well that's the priority isn't it. Guess we'll just have to wait in any case. . .

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The reason I said this whole thing is a windup is that there is not a Thai landlord in the country that would allow this to happen under any circumstances. Thais are way to smart about money.

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(Apologies to everyone driven as crazy by pointless repetition as I am)

Haven't you realized by now that there is generalization starting with "all Thais" or "no Thai". She's Chinese-Thai to boot as well, a relatively young girl, I reckon still in training by her classic super-sharp dragon-lady mum, given responsibility over my rental, perhaps only this one out of the dozen of houses the family owns. Daughter doesn't depend on the income, goes about her life without checking the account for over a year. Once she finds out I'm (I think eight months at that point?) behind, she comes to talk to me about it, I do my best, miss a few more here and there, once it gets up to 17-18 months she puts the hard word on me says she really will need to kick us out in the street if I don't shape up and furthermore insists that I pay 130% from now on in order to make progress on the backlog.

Then for the past eight months (soon to be nine) I've done as she's demanded punctually on time every month. She knows she's getting her money now and I believe trusts me to the point that she'd let me go home still owing her her most of the backlog, confident I'll pay her back eventually, call it women's intuition or whatever. However despite this confidence, and the fact that she's never ever mentioned the possibility of legal action - I honestly don't think she'd do such a thing - the extremity of the downside is such that I've decided not to risk it and have reluctantly decided not to be open with her about my plans to go home in advance, but let her know after we're safely out of the kingdom, along with a payment of at least a couple of months, whatever I can afford and still feed the kids. And then bust my butt to get work and pay off the rest as quickly as I can.

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What I don't get is the motivation for such an elaborate windup. You couldn't even get away with not paying a year's rent in any other country let alone Thailand.

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Yes I have the same problem, I can't imagine how anyone could think this is fiction (as in truth is stranger than). I personally also can't imagine anyone having fun lying to strangers on the anonymous internet, but then some people like porn, coffee, scotch, all kinds of pastimes that I've never acquired the taste for, takes all kinds in the world.

And that's also my point with the landlord, yes she's not your typical, bit scattered and irresponsible just like me, maybe also a bit too trusting and kind to make a sharp business person by her mum's standards. But the world's a better place for having people like her in it IMO. . .

[FunFon]

You have a maid yet don't pay your rent for over a year:whistling:

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Do try to keep up Phil - single father - childcare not an option in order to work, look for more work. . .

[FunFon]

He had a harem and didn't pay rent for a year.

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Strictly speaking I didn't pay a month here a couple months there over a three-year period, the backlog slowly grew without the landlady noticing.

And the harem cost me less cash-wise than you'd spend on transportation per day, at the time would have said no point to living without that aspect, whole point to being over here wasn't it?

I have since then got that bit under control, or perhaps the aging process did, or getting more intensely committed to my children, in any case it's been a fairly long time since I've indulged in that area at all and yes of course I've admitted both here and to God choosing my priorities that way was a mistake, for which I will make appropriate amends. . .

[IMA_FARANG]

I'll be nice to you and not call you the ------- you really are.

However, you may get out of the country untouched unless the landlord files some charges against you.

If she doesn't, the immigration has no authority to stop you.

As long as your visa is not expired or you are on overstay immigration won't bother you....UNLESS there is a court case filed against you.

Now, about your children(?).... well that's a more serious matter.

I hope you have clear custody of those children or (and perhaps also) the permission from your wife or ex-wife to take them with you out of the country.

Because otherwise, you could be in serious trouble if they do start to question you about the children.

They may not be to concerned about you doing a runner to skip out on a debt because that's a civil case, but they are getting very serious about child trafficking.

Trafficing in children is a criminal case, not merely a case in th civil court as skipping on a debt is.

You may even meet with some pointed questioning about arriving back in the U.K. with two Thai children in tow unless you can document that they are your children and that you wife/ex-wife gave you permission to take them to the U.K. with you.

Frankly, you should be more worried about that fact than skipping on a debt.

International trafficking in children has become a very hot issue and even parrents now are ocassionaly being stopped and questioned.

Edited April 20, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[FunFon]

I do appreciate your sincere concern.

However, you may get out of the country untouched unless the landlord files some charges against you. If she doesn't, the immigration has no authority to stop you.

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Yes, nor will they know anything about the situation, but even if they did I doubt they'd care unless she specifically issued the "stop order" or whatever it's called.

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As long as your visa is not expired or you are on overstay immigration won't bother you....UNLESS there is a court case filed against you.

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Actually even if I'm on maximum overstay, my understanding is at least at BKK airport, just stand in the queue, show your ticket out, accept the finger-wagging, bit of maybe-even-friendly joshing about kee nok farang heading home with his tail between his legs, pay your 20K and on your way.

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Now, about your children(?).... well that's a more serious matter. I hope you have clear custody of those children or (and perhaps also) the permission from your wife or ex-wife to take them with you out of the country. Because otherwise, you could be in serious trouble if they do start to question you about the children. They may not be to concerned about you doing a runner to skip out on a debt because that's a civil case, but they are getting very serious about child trafficking. Trafficing in children is a criminal case, not merely a case in th civil court as skipping on a debt is. You may even meet with some pointed questioning about arriving back in the U.K. with two Thai children in tow unless you can document that they are your children and that you wife/ex-wife gave you permission to take them to the U.K. with you. Frankly, you should be more worried about that fact than skipping on a debt. International trafficking in children has become a very hot issue and even parrents now are ocassionaly being stopped and questioned.

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Yes you're right this is the most serious area, but also the one I'm least concerned about at the moment.

Both children are legally my children under both Thai law and that of my home country, we were married at the time, my name on both BCs, both are citizens of both countries, no questions there.

Four years ago I consented to a divorce from my ex, and at the end of the proceedings she signed a legal document signing over 100% full custody of our children, agreeing that she'll never ask for any money and explicitly giving up any legal claim or rights as a mother over both children. The Thai officials at the time asked her several times in Thai "are you aware you won't have any rights as a mother anymore? are you sure you're doing this of your own free will? are you aware you can't go back and change your mind?" etc etc, you could tell they were concerned maybe she wasn't fully aware of the ramifications being a poor uneducated country girl with a big bad farang. . .

I have dealt with my embassy regarding registering the birth of my second child and applying for a first passport completely on my own, and when they read the divorce/custody documents said I didn't need the mother to be present nor to sign any papers, and assured me that I wouldn't have a problem at the airport, just asked me to get official English translations for their files and for use back home.

Now, the clincher: the mother will actually be accompanying us on our journey back home, we're travelling as a family together anyway, so in fact there won't be any need to use any of these papers unless she tries to pull a fast one after living in my back-home female-favouring jurisdiction.

Which is why I'm working on getting a lawyer in that jurisdiction with experience in such matters to help me put a document together that will re-affirm her agreement four years ago to not try to exercise any claim of rights as a mother legally, allowing me to retain full custody without question in that jurisdiction, in case her next husband (my paranoid nightmare-fantasy here) is some shark divorce lawyer who she persuades to support both her and my kids.

Which I agree is perhaps being a bit over-the-top cautious, but as you say it's an important area to be cautious about.

Further advice based on all of the above would be most welcome.

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And again, I'm not skipping out on any debt, all will be paid in full as soon as practical, much more quickly from over there than I ever could staying here.

Edited April 20, 2013 by FunFon

[FunFon]

...

you trying to make yourself look hi-so with your servants and living the thai dream , when you an,t got a pot to piss in

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I've never claimed any such thing, that's just your own filtering/interpretation at work.

There's nothing hi-so about having a servant in Thailand, costs less than what you spend on your phone I'm sure.

And again, given my situation if I gave up the nanny I'd have to give up my kids, so of course that takes highest priority right up with food, well ahead of electric - or keeping current with the rent if we're not actually going to lose the roof over our heads.

[FunFon]

OOPS Rule 19 but I found it.

(In response to JLCrab's indication that he's blocked my messages elsewhere, just in case he hasn't done so here as well.)

No problem up to you, I was just trying to have a reasonable and sincere discussion with you, no malice or sarcasm intended, sorry if you've taken anything I've written as such.

Best of luck to you JLCrab. . .

[rene123]

Despite the personal issues, FunFon, good luck with getting the children out to somewhere safe. And do make good on your repayment. Otherwise you will never be able to look at yourself in the mirror and it will haunt you forever.

[FunFon]

Thanks much Rene, and I will, not actually that big a deal as some here make out.

[JLCrab]

Thanks Rene, and here's to you:

[NeverSure]

20 pages of this sh1t. 20 pages.

There may be a troll about, but it's a professional troll.

[JLCrab]

Very professional and very pretty.

[FunFon]

Very professional and very pretty.

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Just to clarify for everyone's edification an interesting plot twist, JLCrab seems to have had a flash of intuition that I'm actually a female of all things.

I can only imagine that my extreme non-PC views have convinced him I'm actually a rabid traditional feminist PC enforcer running a false-flag operation to smoke out all those nasty sexists on the board for the ECC. Everyone who "likes" me gets put on their hit list, so be warned. . .

Edited April 20, 2013 by FunFon

[JLCrab]

Yes, but there is no denial in the above statement.

[FunFon]

OK, just to make it explicit:

I am male, born that way and no plans to change.

It's true my testosterone levels drop during intensive child-rearing years, but for some reason that doesn't seem to affect anything important - although the man-breasts are a bit embarrassing.

[JLCrab]

Well since you made the statement above about the non-existent type of only-valid-with-children-present long-term tourist visa for your ex-wife, I have no reason to believe the above either.

Edited April 20, 2013 by JLCrab

[FunFon]

Sorry if I wasn't clear before, I acknowledged that there was no such type of visa officially (that's what "de jure" means), but that given our particular circumstances, that is exactly the "de-facto" situation she finds herself in.

And as always if you can figure out a way to put your money where your mouth is without threatening our safe passage, I'd be happy to provide proof. . .

[FunFon]

20 pages of this sh1t. 20 pages.

There may be a troll about, but it's a professional troll.

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Well thanks for doing your bit to help out then Dino.

Since the topic doesn't seem to interest you that much feel free to stop torturing yourself simply by refraining from clicking on it.

These may be more up your alley, surprised you didn't respond over there before:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/624884-are-you-part-of-the-farang-detritus-layer/?p=6316019

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/624884-are-you-part-of-the-farang-detritus-layer/?p=6318673

[JLCrab]

Yes I realize that by de facto you acknowledged a fabrication. So how many others are out there?

[FunFon]

Yes I realize that by de facto you acknowledged a fabrication. So how many others are out there?

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I have no idea what you mean by that.

She is unable to travel alone on her perfectly valid visa, while she is perfectly able to do so if accompanied by me and/or the children. This is not due to anything inherent in the visa nor any regulation, but limitations in her own personality and abilities.

In coming years she will be able to use the same visa on her own, due to her having outgrown those limitations, and having established a reliable pattern with the authorities. However by that time it is likely she will have changed her status so that she'll then be on a completely different visa.

Is that more clear? At no point has any of my statements been false, much less so intentionally, only your interpretation may be at fault.

Edited April 20, 2013 by FunFon

[JLCrab]

That's not what you said. What you said was:

No, her visa is based on accompanying her children (and therefore me).

--- What I said to myself early this morning after being up all night monitoring diplomatic proceedings in Switzerland was:

Why doesn't someone this online loquacious have a blog?

... and OOPS there it was.

Edited April 20, 2013 by JLCrab

[FunFon]

That's not what you said. What you said was:

No, her visa is based on accompanying her children (and therefore me).

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My apologies you're right, this is more accurate:

the circumstances that led to her having been granted her existing visa are such that she can only effectively use it if accompanied by me or the children.

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Not many people here are parsing my every word with such diligence JL. . .

--- What I said to myself early this morning after being up all night monitoring diplomatic proceedings in Switzerland was:

Why doesn't someone this online loquacious have a blog?

... and OOPS there it was.

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Once again I'm afraid you've lost me, but perhaps that is your intention.

Do you think you've found a blog by someone with circumstances similar to mine? If so I'd be very interested in checking it out, please post a URL - via PM if you think it might get you into trouble. . .

[hagler]

OP you need to get off your ass and get your act together instead of living in your Walter Mitty world and spending your days and nights wasting bandwidth and living in your cyber realm.

What a sad example you must set for your children. I truly hope they have a better role model come into theirs lives before their formulative years are over.

Wastrel

[metisdead]

As the OP was in violation of this forum rule:

26) Not to create multiple accounts. Any member found to have more than one account on the ThaiVisa Forum will be suspended. Suspended or banned members found creating additional accounts will be banned immediately.

Topic is now closed.