Form I-864 Very Tough On Petitioner

[1Ping1]

am a newbe on this site but was looking to ask a question
and came across this forum. I am also an Nov guy. the Fourth to be exact.
10/04/2012. It is at the CA processing center. Does this mean I am getting
close?

Form I-864 scares the heck out of me. No one plans on getting divorced but as noted, not my first
rodeo and have worked hard my entire life to only lose half of it as I did in
first marriage in States due to divorce. In second marriage to an American, I had a solid prenup that covered
my assets that I already had before marriage and pretty clean divorce in keeping them when we divorced. We are planning on living in SD. I have a solid retirement and investments that I want to protect in case of
divorce.,

I love my Thai fiance, and her daughter very much. I am just trying to be realistic in knowing that while we could be good for the next 50 years, Shi...... happens. If it does, I do not want it to wipe me out. Will a solid prenup keep me out of trouble. I have zero problem with us sharing all assets gained from day we are finally married.

Just want to ensure that my grown kids and their familys, my grandkids are covered in the future by
current will and solid prenup.

I should add that we are using a Bangkok Attorney to get to the states. After that an American Attorney to carry us the rest of the way. Meaning Prenup signing and will..

Thanks for all the great info. I must admitt this entire process, even though I have printed and read out just about every form and instructions for each form about three times is still is giving me headaches. I must admitt that I have been blown up more than a few times in my life and my memory or retention of info is not top notch. I greatly appreciate all the help.

Questions:

Just what is the process: Yes, I have looked for it. Those are correct and thanks so much for info in my first post last week, that I should not worry about the 1-134 affidavet of support. But also correct that I sure as heck should be worried about the I-864, "affidavit of support" under section 213A of the act. The problem is I do not see anywhere where I have to fill it out.

Please HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS. And yes, knock the snot out of me when I am wrong.

The way I read it, I being a Nov filer wait a few more months to get I-129 approved, package sent to US embassy/immigration in Bangkok and then go through with filing 1-134 and Finance goes through interview?

Once accepted, we get visa to states?

Once in states we get married, and asap file 1-130 for green card and work permit. Then also file for 1-131 for early permission to travel while still under temp green card while waiting for our two years to get permanent green card.

MOST IMORTANT, AND BACK TO ORIGIONAL QUESTION, WHEN, WHY, WOULD ANYONE FILE FORM 1-864. As noted, not the sharpest tool in the shed but I cannot find anything that tells me when, or at what stage I would have to fill it out. It is as most of you rightfully noted, is pretty much signing over 35 of 100k per year in income if you were to get divorced once you sign the form. It is to ensure that even if divorced, you are responsible to keep her and child at 125% of USA poverty level if you were to get divorced. The only out would be if they went back to their home country per what I have read.

I totally understand why the USA does this. My issue of course, as noted in first posting is while we are in love, well, not first rodeo and sure as heck do not want to sign over roughly 35% of my income for rest of my life if things go south on me down the road. While a solid pre-nup as noted, should protect existing assets, and I have zero problem with splitting 50% anything we gain together, if we were to divorce the form I-864 is like a death star.

Any clarity for this begging smuck that does not understand just when, why I have to fill out the I-864 affidavit of support form? and is my info on timeline, or flow chart so to speak correct?

God Bless for any and all responses, as noted, while I read and re-read, I cannot ever seem to find a solid, this is how it plays out, and when do you or not have to file form I-864.

I will take all the bashing if deemed needed to get some insight on this but the question is serious. How protected are my or for that matter yours, how are you protecting prior assests in US once married and then something falls apart. It was a Thailand Attorney that noted even though my wife speaks five languages and reads writes, speaks Englishas well as I do, all she has to do “per him” is state she did not understand the prenup. Yeah, that puckered me up a bit…………

Thank You So Much For Any and All Help In advance, I am a nervous wreck over this thing and not sure if I am worried about nothing or if I am not worried enough!

[rucus7]

I don't really understand your trepidation. My understanding the I-864 is required for sponsored immigrants. If your wife becomes an American citizen, you are no longer responsible regarding the poverty level. Check this link for more info.

www.visajourney.com/

[taxout]

You'll need to discuss with your US lawyer a pre-nup clause in which your fiancee waives her right to claim support under the I-864. This doesn't affect the government's right to go after you if she goes on welfare or such, of course, but only her independent right to sue you under the I-864. (Whether such a waiver would be valid in SD, I don't know.)

Your Bangkok attorney is rightfully cautioning you against believing that there's any such thing as an iron-clad pre-nup. You need to build a bulwark against attack by closing some of the common approaches. So make sure she's represented by her own counsel, give her plenty of time to consider the agreement, don't pressure or threaten her in any fashion to sign, and make full disclosure to her of your financial situation, so she knows what she's giving up. But don't fool yourself into believing it's then water-tight. Courts always find a way to do what they want to do regardless of the documented agreement.

Edited April 13, 2013 by taxout

[daboyz1]

The I-864 is primarily there to protect the U.S. govt. from being liable for any means-tested benefit, meaning if things don't work out between you and your spouse and she ends up getting any kind of govt. assistance (food stamps, welfare, etc.) they can come after you for that. It doesn't have anything to do with how much money/assets she will get in a divorce settlement. I see you have posted a few questions about this on Visajourney already. There is a member there named Capri that is very knowledgeable about this situation. I believe he/she is a lawyer. I think there have been some recent cases where in a divorce the petitioner (you) has been required to support the beneficiary (her) at 125% of the poverty guidelines in a divorce case. It seems from some of the things Capri has posted that this is still working it's way through the courts.

I know a guy here in the U.S. that brought his fiancee over from Thailand, married within the 90 days which is required, but didn't file the adjustment of status (I-485,I-765,I-864) for a year. Now during this time the wife couldn't work, couldn't drive, couldn't leave the country etc. He did this because he was concerned about the I-864. Personally I thought it was pretty unfair of him to do that to her, because she was in some kind of weird immigration limbo at that point.

IMO there shouldn't be a fiancee visa. Either make the commitment, or don't. Too many people use it as a "get to know you" visa. That's just my opinion though.

[daboyz1]

Read this:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/368751-divorce-and-the-i-864/

[taxout]

While it is a contract between the US Government and the sponsor, courts have recognised the right of the sponsored person to sue the sponsor for support under the I-864:

"Efforts on the part of divorced spouses in particular to show that they are entitled to support payments under the I-864 have been successful in the federal courts."

http://www.floridabar.org/DIVCOM/JN/JNJournal01.nsf/c0d731e03de9828d852574580042ae7a/2cbe6a52e76636f28525763b00661a63!OpenDocument&Highlight=0,i-864*

Edited April 13, 2013 by taxout

[daboyz1]

While it is a contract between the US Government and the sponsor, courts have recognised the right of the sponsored person to sue the sponsor for support under the I-864:

"Efforts on the part of divorced spouses in particular to show that they are entitled to support payments under the I-864 have been successful in the federal courts."

http://www.floridabar.org/DIVCOM/JN/JNJournal01.nsf/c0d731e03de9828d852574580042ae7a/2cbe6a52e76636f28525763b00661a63!OpenDocument&Highlight=0,i-864*

Agreed. I think other courts have found that divorced spouses are not entitled to anything based on the I-864 in a divorce. Seems to be somewhat of a gray area currently.

[1Ping1]

Thanks to all for great info and opinions, responses. Yes, I am more than a bit freaked out over the I-864 form.

And yes, once a US citizen, it goes away but that is a five year minimum in the US to clear that hurdle.

In my neighborhood there are roughy 50 nice homes. 70 percent Farong and Thai "wife". I use the term losely as some I believe are not truly married but in Thailand, Boyfriends are Husbands and Girlfriends are wifes. Just the verbiage they use.

Also, about half the Farongs go back home for three to six months a year and I suspect that the true reason is the same anxiety that I have. They do not seem to want their "wife" to get legal immigration status due to the same financial obligations.

the entire thing really sucks for me. I love my fiance. That is the main reason I want to get married in the states. At some point I am going to die, she will outlive me as I am 59, she is 27 and her daughter, that I love more than life is 6. By marrying in states and getting her to thru process to the point of getting US citizenship. She can then get my SSA benifits and my retirement. But.............................Again, Gosh darn, what a risk we take when we do this.

I can see why so many marry, not marry but do the part time dad and father, husband and fly home for months on end but it is not in my opinion a great thing to do to someone you love. The flip side of course is running the gauntlet and praying things do not go south after you have filled out the 864 form declaring, as noted, contract with goverment that you are going to pay them 125% of the poverty level, roughly 35k a year forever, regardless of divorce and until or unless they immigrate back to their home country.

Is is possible to use Fiance Visa, fly to the states and then get married and fly back to Thailand without filling out the forms. While I suspect this blows her SSA benefits years down the road, I think she could then at least get other benefits as my pension or life insurance. "all covered in prenup of course.

I should add that my Fiance has told me many times, she does not want to live in States, just wants to get green card and then move back to Thailand. This would be roughly two years and not possible with me not filling out form. I also think not great for child to be hauling her from country to country over two years.

Again, any, all advice is greatly appreciated. I believe and thank you all for your sincere answers and advice.

[daboyz1]

Thanks to all for great info and opinions, responses. Yes, I am more than a bit freaked out over the I-864 form.

And yes, once a US citizen, it goes away but that is a five year minimum in the US to clear that hurdle.

In my neighborhood there are roughy 50 nice homes. 70 percent Farong and Thai "wife". I use the term losely as some I believe are not truly married but in Thailand, Boyfriends are Husbands and Girlfriends are wifes. Just the verbiage they use.

Also, about half the Farongs go back home for three to six months a year and I suspect that the true reason is the same anxiety that I have. They do not seem to want their "wife" to get legal immigration status due to the same financial obligations.

the entire thing really sucks for me. I love my fiance. That is the main reason I want to get married in the states. At some point I am going to die, she will outlive me as I am 59, she is 27 and her daughter, that I love more than life is 6. By marrying in states and getting her to thru process to the point of getting US citizenship. She can then get my SSA benifits and my retirement. But.............................Again, Gosh darn, what a risk we take when we do this.

I can see why so many marry, not marry but do the part time dad and father, husband and fly home for months on end but it is not in my opinion a great thing to do to someone you love. The flip side of course is running the gauntlet and praying things do not go south after you have filled out the 864 form declaring, as noted, contract with goverment that you are going to pay them 125% of the poverty level, roughly 35k a year forever, regardless of divorce and until or unless they immigrate back to their home country.

Is is possible to use Fiance Visa, fly to the states and then get married and fly back to Thailand without filling out the forms. While I suspect this blows her SSA benefits years down the road, I think she could then at least get other benefits as my pension or life insurance. "all covered in prenup of course.

I should add that my Fiance has told me many times, she does not want to live in States, just wants to get green card and then move back to Thailand. This would be roughly two years and not possible with me not filling out form. I also think not great for child to be hauling her from country to country over two years.

Again, any, all advice is greatly appreciated. I believe and thank you all for your sincere answers and advice.

A few things wrong here:

1. She can file for citizenship 2 years and 9 months after getting her green card. She will need to be a permanent resident for 3 years before she can take her oath of citizenship. Part of the form when filing for citizenship asks you to list EVERY trip out of the U.S. for 24 hours or more.

2. Married is married. Whether you get married in Thailand or the U.S. So by getting married in the U.S. you don't really gain anything vs. getting married in Thailand.

3. If she does get a green card, she needs to live in the U.S. If she tries to use it as an extended tourist visa, they will cancel it. Any trips of 6 months or more out of the U.S. are a gray area and she can be refused entry back into the U.S. A trip of a year or more without a re-entry permit is considered abandonment of the green card, and it's cancelled. A pattern of multiple trips that show that U.S. residency is not being maintained will cause issues.

4. As far as the pension and life insurance benefits go, she should be able to get those regardless of her status in the U.S. My sister in law's husband from England died, and she get's a check every month from his retirement plan. (He was smart and knew that she would blow it in a month if she got it all at once so he put it in a trust where she get's like 20k THB a month)

Now once she get's citizenship she can live in Thailand for the rest of her life and never return to the U.S. and this doesn't affect her U.S. citizenship at all.

[ubonjoe]

For a wife to get your Social Security (aka pension) benefits after your death she has to be a permanent resident for 5 years.