Twin Bomb Explosions Shatter Boston Marathon Finish Line

[Publicus]

I strongly suggest that posters stick to the topic of the OP. If you wish to have a private discussion, then use the PM function.

What a coincidence! That's what I did even without being told.

Sorry Scott and everyone whose reading was disturbed...

Confirmed.

[Publicus]

There seems to be a new beef breaking out that may result in the Djokar case getting tangled up in legal procedural technicalities - technicalities that are of great importance - that may sidetrack the prosecuting of the case. One aspect is the question of whether the U.S. has a second justice system for Muslims.

More, it revisits the Mirandizing of Djokar and the secret order signed by Prez Obama to interrogate well beyond the time period specifically stipulated by the courts in the instance of terrorism suspects. It's regularly been said that high visibility cases make bad law and dubious legalities that are often nullified on appeal. Obama's secret order to allow 48 hours of non-Miranda interrogation may be unconstitutional.

Recall Djokar was interrogated for 16 hours before the judge appeared in the hospital room to Mirandize him and give him a lawyer. Mirandizing Djokar at all ticked off a lot of politicians in Washington.

Report: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's Repeated Requests For A Lawyer Were Ignored

http://www.businessinsider.com/report-dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-repeated-requests-for-a-lawyer-were-ignored-2013-5

[Publicus]

A former Djokar ladyfriend student in the same dorm says Djokar was the charismatic leader of his group of Russian expat students and a babe magnet.

Former Fling Of Bombing Suspect: The New Jailed Suspects 'Idolized' Dzhokhar

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/girlfriend-of-boston-bomber-speaks-2013-5#ixzz2Smin27nr

[Steely Dan]

There is mounting evidence that the FBI may have been neutered with regard to investigating Islamic terrorism, here is an interview with FBI former deputy director of national security. The rule now being see no jihad, hear no jihad, speak no jihad. Instead we have angry kids who acted alone. As blaming the attack on workplace violence won't work, how about referring to it as, say sporting event violence.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-25/charlie-rose-talks-to-philip-mudd

I don’t necessarily think these are real jihadi terrorists. I think they’re angry kids.

Yet for those willing to look evidence to the contrary keeps on coming.

http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-dagestani-relative-tamerlan-tsarnaev-prominent-islamist-171006979.html

Last year, when Tamerlan Tsarnaev spent six months in the Russian region of Dagestan, he had a guide with an unusually deep knowledge of the local Islamist community: a distant cousin named Magomed Kartashov. Six years older than Tsarnaev, Kartashov is a former police officer and freestyle wrestler — and one of the region’s most prominent Islamists.

yet the FBI released him after questioning.

[NeverSure]

There seems to be a new beef breaking out that may result in the Djokar case getting tangled up in legal procedural technicalities - technicalities that are of great importance - that may sidetrack the prosecuting of the case. One aspect is the question of whether the U.S. has a second justice system for Muslims.

More, it revisits the Mirandizing of Djokar and the secret order signed by Prez Obama to interrogate well beyond the time period specifically stipulated by the courts in the instance of terrorism suspects. It's regularly been said that high visibility cases make bad law and dubious legalities that are often nullified on appeal. Obama's secret order to allow 48 hours of non-Miranda interrogation may be unconstitutional.

Recall Djokar was interrogated for 16 hours before the judge appeared in the hospital room to Mirandize him and give him a lawyer. Mirandizing Djokar at all ticked off a lot of politicians in Washington.

Report: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's Repeated Requests For A Lawyer Were Ignored

http://www.businessinsider.com/report-dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-repeated-requests-for-a-lawyer-were-ignored-2013-5

I'm not so sure that this will impede his trial and conviction. Even if it is found that his Miranda rights were violated, I "think" all that means is that his testimony before that can't be used against him at trial. But I think there's enough other evidence including eyewitness evidence and physical evidence to convict him anyway.

[F430murci]

There seems to be a new beef breaking out that may result in the Djokar case getting tangled up in legal procedural technicalities - technicalities that are of great importance - that may sidetrack the prosecuting of the case. One aspect is the question of whether the U.S. has a second justice system for Muslims.

More, it revisits the Mirandizing of Djokar and the secret order signed by Prez Obama to interrogate well beyond the time period specifically stipulated by the courts in the instance of terrorism suspects. It's regularly been said that high visibility cases make bad law and dubious legalities that are often nullified on appeal. Obama's secret order to allow 48 hours of non-Miranda interrogation may be unconstitutional.

Recall Djokar was interrogated for 16 hours before the judge appeared in the hospital room to Mirandize him and give him a lawyer. Mirandizing Djokar at all ticked off a lot of politicians in Washington.

Report: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's Repeated Requests For A Lawyer Were Ignored

http://www.businessinsider.com/report-dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-repeated-requests-for-a-lawyer-were-ignored-2013-5

I'm not so sure that this will impede his trial and conviction. Even if it is found that his Miranda rights were violated, I "think" all that means is that his testimony before that can't be used against him at trial. But I think there's enough other evidence including eyewitness evidence and physical evidence to convict him anyway.

His new anti death penalty lawyer will simply try to use the evidentiary problems to obtain a plea for life.

[Publicus]

What you guys said is likely true in respect to the U.S. District Court in Boston but dubious when the case gets to the Appeals Court that is based there.

The U.S. District Court Judge who Mirandized Djokar in his hospital room and assigned a lawyer isn't going to overturn or vacate her own actions or decisions. So the District Court trial should go well in the spectacle that the case of The United States vs Dzhokhar Tsarnaev will be.

Trouble is Djokar's lawyers will make motions to dismiss based on the "late" Mirandizing and because the feds were able to question him beyond the few minutes allowed by the new terrorism laws - and as already specified by the U.S. Supreme Court. The motions by the defense to dismiss will be serious motions, and the District Court judge knows it. That is why she appeared in the hospital room to do her duty as she saw it to do, and when she did.

The motions denied by the District Court judge will be a basis of the appeal. Appeals court judges don't like letting these matters pass close scrutiny. This case is in the 1st U.S. Judicial Circuit, in Boston, which has an Appeals Court that is much more strongly oriented towards process and procedure than, say, the 4th Circuit in more conservative Richmond VA, which favors prosecutors. Yet even the Richmond Circuit Court of Appeals would be bound by the Supreme Court's narrow specified ruling of only a few minutes, not 16 hours.

No one would like to see the verdict of the District Court get reversed by the Circuit Court of Appeals on the basis of procedure and due process of law, which is just about all the Appeals Courts consider, to then be remanded to the District Court for a new trial. Anything can happen in a new trial that would have to occur within the new parameters drawn by the Boston Circuit Appeals Court based on the existing ruling of the Supreme Court.

[NeverSure]

Again, if the court or the appellate courts find that failure to Mirandize was unlawful, all that does is make his statements inadmissible at trial. It does not make other evidence such as surveillance tapes of the bombers at the scene, or any proof they had materials, or any other evidence inadmissible.

He should still be found guilty on the other evidence they have.

I believe the reason they didn't Mirandize him wasn't to get a conviction at all. It was to see if they could find out if others were involved, and how far that went.

The prosecution could even stipulate to an agreement to not use his testimony in the hospital at trial, and avoid the delays of motions and perhaps appeals. They could simply agree to go to trial with all of this other evidence they have that they didn't get from him.

[Publicus]

Again, if the court or the appellate courts find that failure to Mirandize was unlawful, all that does is make his statements inadmissible at trial. It does not make other evidence such as surveillance tapes of the bombers at the scene, or any proof they had materials, or any other evidence inadmissible.

He should still be found guilty on the other evidence they have.

I believe the reason they didn't Mirandize him wasn't to get a conviction at all. It was to see if they could find out if others were involved, and how far that went.

The prosecution could even stipulate to an agreement to not use his testimony in the hospital at trial, and avoid the delays of motions and perhaps appeals. They could simply agree to go to trial with all of this other evidence they have that they didn't get from him.

I agree and it's obvious investigators during interrogation in the hospital room didn't Mirandize Djokar because they wanted additional information, if there had been any, of a larger plot likely involving others. By the Supreme Court's specific ruling, however, investigators had about five minutes to do that, to make that determination. Yet investigators questioned Djokar for 16 hours without Mirandizing him. So Djokar was Mirandized about 15 hours and 55 minutes beyond the Supreme Court's dictum in this kind of investigation, i.e., the interrogation of a terrorism suspect. Accordingly, the appellate court is virtually obligated to reverse and remand on that basis alone. Then we get another trial.

Yes, there is other evidence to convict, to include not only circumstantial videos, but one eyewitness who said he saw Djokar place the bag and looked Djokar in the eyes. I'm saying we are very likely to see a reversal and remand by the appeals court - that there will have to be a second trial. A second trial that was eminently avoidable.

.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

I think most of us began to suspect the older brother in this mass murder (practice?) once it was mentioned early on that one of the murdered guys was described by Tamerlan as his only American friend. Turned out Tamerlan's only American friend was a pot smoker. Two brothers were killed in the murder of the three in an apartment - by two brothers?.

Police have said all along that the three murdered men knew their murderer(s). It might be hard for one guy, Tamerlan, to hold three adult men at bay with only a knife even tho Tamerlan was a boxer. So it does seem more likely Djokar could have been an accomplice.

So now Djokar too has been listed as a suspect in the murders. Yet Djokar is described by everyone who knew him as a pothead himself. Maybe Djokar was a holier than thou pothead. Djokar is sounding more and more like a behind your back creep. And maybe Djokar was lucky not to suffer the same fate as the three at the hands of his own self-righteous brother Tamerlan, now finally planted in a Virginia cemetery.

The three guys were murdered on the same date Djokar swore his oath of naturalized citizenship, September 11th.

A couple of very sick puppies in all of this from what appears to be a bizarre "family."


REPORT: 'Mounting Evidence' Ties Tsarnaev Brothers To 2011 Triple Homicide

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/report-tamerlan-tsarnaev-triple-murder-link-2013-5#ixzz2SvetRIvE

Edited May 10, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

And the hits just keep on comin'.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev Reportedly Tried To Join A Jihad Against Russia

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/tamerlan-tsarnaev-looking-for-jihad-2013-5#ixzz2SvrXcClP

[Steely Dan]

I think most of us began to suspect the older brother in this mass murder (practice?) once it was mentioned early on that one of the murdered guys was described by Tamerlan as his only American friend. Turned out Tamerlan's only American friend was a pot smoker. Two brothers were killed in the murder of the three in an apartment - by two brothers?.

Police have said all along that the three murdered men knew their murderer(s). It might be hard for one guy, Tamerlan, to hold three adult men at bay with only a knife even tho Tamerlan was a boxer. So it does seem more likely Djokar could have been an accomplice.

So now Djokar too has been listed as a suspect in the murders. Yet Djokar is described by everyone who knew him as a pothead himself. Maybe Djokar was a holier than thou pothead. Djokar is sounding more and more like a behind your back creep. And maybe Djokar was lucky not to suffer the same fate as the three at the hands of his own self-righteous brother Tamerlan, now finally planted in a Virginia cemetery.

The three guys were murdered on the same date Djokar swore his oath of naturalized citizenship, September 11th.

A couple of very sick puppies in all of this from what appears to be a bizarre "family."

REPORT: 'Mounting Evidence' Ties Tsarnaev Brothers To 2011 Triple Homicide

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/report-tamerlan-tsarnaev-triple-murder-link-2013-5#ixzz2SvetRIvE

Just angry young boys, no religion, no ideology, and certainly no jihad.

[Publicus]

I think most of us began to suspect the older brother in this mass murder (practice?) once it was mentioned early on that one of the murdered guys was described by Tamerlan as his only American friend. Turned out Tamerlan's only American friend was a pot smoker. Two brothers were killed in the murder of the three in an apartment - by two brothers?.

Police have said all along that the three murdered men knew their murderer(s). It might be hard for one guy, Tamerlan, to hold three adult men at bay with only a knife even tho Tamerlan was a boxer. So it does seem more likely Djokar could have been an accomplice.

So now Djokar too has been listed as a suspect in the murders. Yet Djokar is described by everyone who knew him as a pothead himself. Maybe Djokar was a holier than thou pothead. Djokar is sounding more and more like a behind your back creep. And maybe Djokar was lucky not to suffer the same fate as the three at the hands of his own self-righteous brother Tamerlan, now finally planted in a Virginia cemetery.

The three guys were murdered on the same date Djokar swore his oath of naturalized citizenship, September 11th.

A couple of very sick puppies in all of this from what appears to be a bizarre "family."

REPORT: 'Mounting Evidence' Ties Tsarnaev Brothers To 2011 Triple Homicide

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/report-tamerlan-tsarnaev-triple-murder-link-2013-5#ixzz2SvetRIvE

Just angry young boys, no religion, no ideology, and certainly no jihad.

Well, Tamerlan sounds like a bent religious nut. Djokar, very likely a sociopath..

[chuckd]

Why will a second trial be necessary when there has not been a first trial yet?

[lomatopo]

I remember this triple homicide, I'm from an adjacent town (Newton) and I was there Sep. 13 - 18, 2011 just after it happened, and have friends/relatives who live in Waltham. At the time most chalked it up to a rival drug distribution gang. Waltham police never got any traction on the case.

[Publicus]

“Make a Bomb in the Kitchen of Your Mom,”

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev reportedly told the FBI that he and his brothers learned to make bombs in al-Qaeda's English language Inspire magazine. The first issue of Inspire (Summer 2010) contains the article, “Make a Bomb in the Kitchen of Your Mom,” which gives clear instructions with illustrations of several alternative methods of constructing an effective bomb similar to the bombs used in Boston by using powder from fireworks and a pressure cooker.

The Boston Marathon Bombing: Radicalization Process and the Tsarnaev Brothers

http://www.jamestown.org/single-hot-issues/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=40849&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=61&cHash=753062d65608385fbe746302d90073ca


http://www.jamestown.org/single-hot-issues/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=40849&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=61&cHash=753062d65608385fbe746302d90073ca

Edited May 12, 2013 by Publicus

[maidu]

My mom once made cat food from beans, hoping to save money. She put two closed bottles of cooked beans in a pantry shelf. That night, there was a young guy staying upstairs, who had just been let out of prison. In the middle of the night, one of the bottles exploded and knocked the wooden door off its hinge. The guy upstairs thought it was a shotgun, and jumped naked out the 2nd floor window. Never saw him again.

[Sing_Sling]

My mom once made cat food from beans, hoping to save money. She put two closed bottles of cooked beans in a pantry shelf. That night, there was a young guy staying upstairs, who had just been let out of prison. In the middle of the night, one of the bottles exploded and knocked the wooden door off its hinge. The guy upstairs thought it was a shotgun, and jumped naked out the 2nd floor window. Never saw him again.

Thanks for that!

[F430murci]

Another act of terror??? Anyone heard about this?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/12/18213691-at-least-19-injured-in-new-orleans-mothers-day-shooting?lite

[chuckd]

Another act of terror??? Anyone heard about this?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/12/18213691-at-least-19-injured-in-new-orleans-mothers-day-shooting?lite

From the link you provided:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Mary Beth Romig, a spokeswoman for the FBI in New Orleans, told The Associated Press that federal investigators have no indication that the shooting was an act of terrorism.

"It's strictly an act of street violence in New Orleans," she said."

[F430murci]

Another act of terror??? Anyone heard about this?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/12/18213691-at-least-19-injured-in-new-orleans-mothers-day-shooting?lite

From the link you provided:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Mary Beth Romig, a spokeswoman for the FBI in New Orleans, told The Associated Press that federal investigators have no indication that the shooting was an act of terrorism.

"It's strictly an act of street violence in New Orleans," she said."

Whew, for a second I thought something bad had happened when 19 people got shot up during a mother's day festival. Nah, just good ole Americans exercising their Second Amendment rights. God bless America.

[Sing_Sling]

Another act of terror??? Anyone heard about this?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/12/18213691-at-least-19-injured-in-new-orleans-mothers-day-shooting?lite

From the link you provided:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Mary Beth Romig, a spokeswoman for the FBI in New Orleans, told The Associated Press that federal investigators have no indication that the shooting was an act of terrorism.

"It's strictly an act of street violence in New Orleans," she said."

Whew, for a second I thought something bad had happened when 19 people got shot up during a mother's day festival. Nah, just good ole Americans exercising their Second Amendment rights. God bless America.

Silly man . . . now imagine if everyone at the parade had been carrying guns . . . yeeeeeeeeha! Imagine the bloodbath and the ensuing NRA hoe-down the following week.

Ah, guns . . . you simply must love them or you are un-American!

[Scott]

Stay on topic please. The New Orleans shooting is covered here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/639192-shooting-at-mothers-day-parade-in-new-orleans-injures-19/

[Steely Dan]

And what do we have here, more lone wolves (seven of them) caught trespassing at the Quabbin resevoir, which supplies Boston's water. They were apparently chemical engineers, five of whom were from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The decision to grant Saudi nationals trusted traveler status is only perhaps eclipsed for stupidity by the billions of dollars printed to give to Pakistan. I'm not sure what the motive was but don't suppose it was religiously motivated.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/14/7-cited-for-trespassing-at-quabbin-reservoir-patrols-stepped-up-across-state/

[Sing_Sling]

And what do we have here, more lone wolves (seven of them) caught trespassing at the Quabbin resevoir, which supplies Boston's water. They were apparently chemical engineers, five of whom were from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The decision to grant Saudi nationals trusted traveler status is only perhaps eclipsed for stupidity by the billions of dollars printed to give to Pakistan. I'm not sure what the motive was but don't suppose it was religiously motivated.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/14/7-cited-for-trespassing-at-quabbin-reservoir-patrols-stepped-up-across-state/

You're right - they should be summarily executed for 'trespassing' . . . but then the comments by readers reflects an overall IQ in the low double digits:

Remember, Obama is a very bad Muslim knee grow. He can harm us really badly. He wants all Bostonians dead, poisoned..

This story should not be a local headline, it should have been the lead at every national news outlet today and tomorrow. Islam IS the enemy

I guess when 500,000 Bostonians wake up dead from water poisoning, Obama's feds will have a press conference and take charge.

I'll be interested in your take on this when 500,000 Bostonians wake up dead from water poisoning. Imbecile.

A-rabs out late at night "trying to have some fun...?" That makes a lot of sense!

etc . . .

[lomatopo]

I've seen some reports that forensic evidence may be building which would at least place the Tsarnaev brothers at/in the location of the triple homicide in Waltham, MA on September 11, 2011. Two of the three victims were Jewish, and it was an auspicious date; the victims had their throats cut is such a violent manner that they were nearly decapitated. It will be hugely disappointing if we subsequently find out that the Tsarnaevs were involved, and might have been apprehended if the police hadn't chalked this up to a drug-related incident, which generally doesn't get a lot of police interest - druggies killing druggies is viewed as a positive thing as long as no innocents are involved.

The Quabbin Resevoir item is disturbing. Many major metropolitan water supplies are actually in remote areas, far away from the cities they supply. Interrupting, by contamination, a water supply could obviously cause huge problems.

[Publicus]

And what do we have here, more lone wolves (seven of them) caught trespassing at the Quabbin resevoir, which supplies Boston's water. They were apparently chemical engineers, five of whom were from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The decision to grant Saudi nationals trusted traveler status is only perhaps eclipsed for stupidity by the billions of dollars printed to give to Pakistan. I'm not sure what the motive was but don't suppose it was religiously motivated.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/14/7-cited-for-trespassing-at-quabbin-reservoir-patrols-stepped-up-across-state/

This is just too obviously suspicious because the seven are of a particular religion we know of too well.

If you were a an innocent and harmless Muslim would you enter the main facility of the city's water supply, at or after midnight, so soon after the Marathon bombings? There are three important points of probative value there.

Any group of young guys can do something stupid in the middle of the night, but given the religion and the national origins of the seven involved, and the horrendous timing, the particular place, all fit into the central questions of law enforcement and of the judiciary, i.e., what are the time, the place, the circumstance(s).

Time: After midnight a month after the Boston Marathon bombings.

Place: The main water reservoir of the city of Boston.

Circumstance(s): Muslim extremists blowing up people in the U.S. and throughout the world, and seeking all kinds of weapons of mass death, destruction. A group of chemists surreptitiously at the main water supply of the city of Boston at midnight a month after the Boston Marathon bombings by Muslim extremists.

This stinks.

I remind myself that people are considered innocent unless they are proved to be guilty. However, because of time, place, circumstance(s), these guys have the presumptive burden to show to the people of Boston, of the U.S, to law enforcement that they are harmless idiots.

Time, place, circumstance says they are either idiots or radicals. I'm confident investigators at all levels will probe this and make a timely determination of which (or both).

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed, this is not about the Taliban or Pakistan.

[F430murci]

Bleeding and hunted by police, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev scrawled a note inside the hull of the boat where he was hiding saying that the Boston Marathon bombings were retaliation for American action against Muslims, sources told NBC News on Thursday.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/16/18295633-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-scribbled-note-inside-boat-where-he-was-hiding-sources-say?lite=

[lomatopo]

More on Dzhokhar’s Sharpie Manifesto

Posted on May 16, 2013 by emptywheel

CBS had a fascinating scoop this morning, reporting that (presumably in the hours when he was holed up and authorities searched just blocks away), Dzhokhar Tsarnaev wrote a part-confess part-manifesto on the wall of the boat.

The note — scrawled with a marker on the interior wall of the cabin — said the bombings were retribution for U.S. military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, and called the Boston victims “collateral damage” in the same way Muslims have been in the American-led wars. “When you attack one Muslim, you attack all Muslims,” Tsarnaev wrote.

Tsarnaev said he didn’t mourn older brother Tamerlan, the other suspect in the bombings, writing that by that point, Tamerlan was a martyr in paradise — and that he expected to join him there soon.

http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/05/16/dzhokhars-sharpie-manifesto/