Twin Bomb Explosions Shatter Boston Marathon Finish Line

[SteeleJoe]

He is subject to a death penalty charge. To not execute him is leniency in this case, assuming he goes to trial.

I thought Massachusetts did not have the death penalty? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

I assumed these guys are talking about federal charges.

Edited April 19, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[annabel]

Amazing how CNN is totally clueless and hours behind the internet and reddit even figured out it was the missing Brown student a day ago.

CNN is a total basket case and embarrassment to America. Something drastic needs to be done.

CNN is an embarrassment all over the world and frankly I can say the same about BBC and many others .. they all SUCK big time in my opinion mainly because of who owns and controls tem

[Jingthing]

I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I would push the lethal injection button myself. He doesn't have a chance and he knows it.

All any prosecuting lawyer would have to do is show a picture of the small boy they murdered with his PEACE sign.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

He is subject to a death penalty charge. To not execute him is leniency in this case, assuming he goes to trial.

I thought Massachusetts did not have the death penalty? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

Federal charges.

[Publicus]

UPDATE

Surveillance Video Related to Boston Bombings

Suspects (FBI posters)

-- FBI 2013-04-19

Great work by the Feds. Won't be long before they are taken down, just hope they didn't have a flight out somewhere as they knew they would be on camera.

Identification and apprehension are quite different matters. I'd be willing to bet they will probably catch those guys, but "won't be long"? I'm less sure.

Think Ramzi Yousef (WTC) or Mir Kazi (Langley). The feds knew who they were but it took years (and some international work) to get them.

Or that tall guy SEAL Team 6 drilled in Abbottobad (what was his name again?)....took a while to get him.

Three days in this instance.

As Pres Obama said at the interfaith service, they picked the wrong city. The president spent his three years in law school there, as he said, "across the river" (from the Boston church).

Yes, 3 days in this instance. Earlier in the thread I said I was inclined to think they'd solve the case quickly and in the post you quote I merely pointed out that, knowing what we knew then, it was by no means sure they'd get caught quickly.

And please, don't be ridiculous. It had nothing to do with the city. The speed at which they caught one of them (so far) has to be down to a few things (a certain amount of luck? some incompetence or brazenness on the part of the brothers? the hard and unrelenting work of law enforcement, social media, etc) but none of them having anything to do with where Pres. Obama went to law school. (And if these guys had done things differently and/or had the proper support, it could have taken a lot longer).

And I did not write the quote you attribute to me above.

The only statement I made in the above quote is as follows:

Three days in this instance.

As Pres Obama said at the interfaith service, they picked the wrong city. The president spent his three years in law school there, as he said, "across the river" (from the Boston church).

Everything above these sentences attributed to me in your quote is wrongly attributed. Again.

[SeaVisionBurma]

He is subject to a death penalty charge. To not execute him is leniency in this case, assuming he goes to trial.

I thought Massachusetts did not have the death penalty? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

I assumed these guys are talking about federal charges.

Thanks - not familiar with US policy on Capital Punishment - federal jurisdiction makes sense.

[Publicus]

It turns out our fugitive became an American citizen on September 11, 2012.

Oh my. And in three minutes from now, the anniversary of Hitler's birthday is due. Brimstone.

April 19th is the actual date of the first battle of the Revolutionary War. It occurred in Massachusetts so it's called Patriot's Day and is an official state holiday. The two guys were busted on the literal Patriot's Day.

[Jingthing]

Even just making a bomb gets you massive time in the U.S. This guy really is toast. His life is over.

[SteeleJoe]

UPDATE

Surveillance Video Related to Boston Bombings

Suspects (FBI posters)

-- FBI 2013-04-19

Great work by the Feds. Won't be long before they are taken down, just hope they didn't have a flight out somewhere as they knew they would be on camera.

Identification and apprehension are quite different matters. I'd be willing to bet they will probably catch those guys, but "won't be long"? I'm less sure.

Think Ramzi Yousef (WTC) or Mir Kazi (Langley). The feds knew who they were but it took years (and some international work) to get them.

Or that tall guy SEAL Team 6 drilled in Abbottobad (what was his name again?)....took a while to get him.

Three days in this instance.

As Pres Obama said at the interfaith service, they picked the wrong city. The president spent his three years in law school there, as he said, "across the river" (from the Boston church).

Yes, 3 days in this instance. Earlier in the thread I said I was inclined to think they'd solve the case quickly and in the post you quote I merely pointed out that, knowing what we knew then, it was by no means sure they'd get caught quickly.

And please, don't be ridiculous. It had nothing to do with the city. The speed at which they caught one of them (so far) has to be down to a few things (a certain amount of luck? some incompetence or brazenness on the part of the brothers? the hard and unrelenting work of law enforcement, social media, etc) but none of them having anything to do with where Pres. Obama went to law school. (And if these guys had done things differently and/or had the proper support, it could have taken a lot longer).

And I did not write the quote you attribute to me above.

The only statement I made in the above quote is as follows:

Three days in this instance.

As Pres Obama said at the interfaith service, they picked the wrong city. The president spent his three years in law school there, as he said, "across the river" (from the Boston church).

Everything above these sentences attributed to me in your quote is wrongly attributed. Again.

Again, whining. One more time - on the iPad app you have an option for a qoute function. It used to work properly it no longer does. Get over it.

You know what you wrote, I know and so does anyone reading.

Now how about a reply?

[Guest]

And wonder where he would be tried as it is going to be difficult to find 12 unbiased jurors in the local jurisdiction. I think in many cases like this the trials are moved to another district, 'change of venue' as it is called.

It would be hard to get an unbiased jury anywhere in the US. I don't actually believe he will ever go to trial, if you get my meaning.

I suppose the suspect knows this as well.

This is actually one big downside of the death penalty.

Once a person commits an very serious crime, he or she knows that it's the end of life anyway. This also means that there is nothing to loose, so there is no restrictions to kill more people while trying to get away.

[Jingthing]

It's kind of obvious his older brother was the dominant one in this team. Now he knows he's dead. Must be disorientating. I still hope they take him alive as what he has to say for himself is something people really want to hear and who knows could help fight future terrorists.

[SeaVisionBurma]

As a general notice to you all - there are some issues with the quote function which are being addressed by the forum admin.

If you are having trouble quoting - hit the BBCodeMode toggle (button which looks like a switch in the top left of the reply panel).

And lets stop with the flames please.

[ZhouZhou]

I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I would push the lethal injection button myself. He doesn't have a chance and he knows it.

All any prosecuting lawyer would have to do is show a picture of the small boy they murdered with his PEACE sign.

not sure if that peace sign stands for pro death penalty.

good judgment and emotion don't mix.

[Publicus]

He is subject to a death penalty charge. To not execute him is leniency in this case, assuming he goes to trial.

I thought Massachusetts did not have the death penalty? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

I assumed these guys are talking about federal charges.

Thanks - not familiar with US policy on Capital Punishment - federal jurisdiction makes sense.

Timothy McVeigh was convicted on murder charges under federal law for the bombing of the United States Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

I suspect if the surviving holdout brother is captured, he will be tried in the U.S. District Court in Boston on terrorism charges. The Patriot Act, which sets the punishments for convicted terrorists is, however, silent on the death penalty. It would be up to the jury. I'd need to be a juror before I could make the call on this one. I should think however the government would present a strong and convincing case.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Off topic post removed. Topic is about the current Boston situation - not speculation about how this would be handled in Thailand.

[SteeleJoe]

Timothy McVeigh was convicted on murder charges under federal law for the bombing of the United States Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

I suspect if the surviving holdout brother is captured, he will be tried in the U.S. District Court in Boston on terrorism charges. The Patriot Act, which sets the punishments for convicted terrorists is, however, silent on the death penalty. It would be up to the jury. I'd need to be a juror before I could make the call on this one. I should think however the government would present a strong and convincing case.

McVeigh was convicted on 11 federal charges, 8 of them murder and specifically murder of law enforcement personnel.

Murder is not ordinarily a federal crime (though there are many circumstances where it can be).

[SteeleJoe]

The city and the event had everything to do with it.

Explain, please.

[SteeleJoe]

As a general notice to you all - there are some issues with the quote function which are being addressed by the forum admin.

If you are having trouble quoting - hit the BBCodeMode toggle (button which looks like a switch in the top left of the reply panel).

And lets stop with the flames please.

No such toggle on the app. Sorry. Won't bring it up again.

[NeverSure]

Yes, making or using a bomb is a federal offense and this will be tried in federal court where there most certainly is a death penalty for using an explosive to kill someone. I posted a link to that earlier.

The state of Mass. is out of the picture if the guy is captured, dead or alive.

Edit to add that there's a good chance the 'death penalty' will occur very soon without a trial. I say that because this guy doesn't seem to want to be taken alive, and law enforcement is more than willing to accommodate him.

Edited April 19, 2013 by NeverSure

[SeaVisionBurma]

As a general notice to you all - there are some issues with the quote function which are being addressed by the forum admin.

If you are having trouble quoting - hit the BBCodeMode toggle (button which looks like a switch in the top left of the reply panel).

And lets stop with the flames please.

No such toggle on the app. Sorry. Won't bring it up again.

More of a shout out to everyone to take care when quoting an earlier post. We acknowledge there are some issues with it.

If any does mis-quote an earlier post - and if there is an issue with it - hit the report button and we'll sort it out.

Otherwise - everyone please use common sense and keep this in mind when you quote another member.

Carry on.

[NeverSure]

And wonder where he would be tried as it is going to be difficult to find 12 unbiased jurors in the local jurisdiction. I think in many cases like this the trials are moved to another district, 'change of venue' as it is called.

It would be hard to get an unbiased jury anywhere in the US. I don't actually believe he will ever go to trial, if you get my meaning.

I suppose the suspect knows this as well.

This is actually one big downside of the death penalty.

Once a person commits an very serious crime, he or she knows that it's the end of life anyway. This also means that there is nothing to loose, so there is no restrictions to kill more people while trying to get away.

That could be true sometimes, but rarely is there such a manhunt against a terrorist who is already a killer and who is armed and has set off bombs and killed people after the marathon explosions. To say the least, this case is unusual.

One might also say that in the case of terrorists and other mass and even serial murderers, that at least the death penalty assures they'll never kill again once caught. One might also say that this guy perhaps intends to kill anyway until caught or killed.

Some believe that the death penalty brings closure to the victims, and in this case society. Just watch the victims' families and friends hold a watch around a prison when there's going to be an execution. They want it badly.

Then there is the cost of keeping someone in prison for life, especially a hard case like this who must be kept isolated from the general population, and in maximum security. Otherwise, other prisoners would kill him. Does society owe that to the perp?

In almost every case where a perp is convicted and sentenced to die, he will fight and fight and fight in the courts for a commutation to life. Few want to die. Some would say that the threat of death is therefore possibly a deterrent.

Also, his running and continuing to kill and to be a danger of killing makes him a target for death at the hands of the police anyway. They have a rabid killer they need to neutralize and if they do, few will complain and many will be relieved.

[Jingthing]

The villain's tweets.

This gets weirder and weirder.

Watch out for the quiet ones ...

Chillingly, his quotation of Eminem’s verse from “

”
(“nowadays everybody wanna talk like they got somethin to say but
nothin comes out when they move their lips; just a bunch of gibberish”)

came after the bombings.

As recently as January, he dismissed people who link Islam with
terror (“I don't argue with fools who say islam is terrorism it's not
worth a thing, let an idiot remain an idiot”). In March, he paraphrased
Edmund Burke (“evil triumphs when good men do nothing”). Given what he
seems to have done, he invests the maxim with malice—a malice made that
much more scary by the banality of what surrounds it.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/04/19/dzhokar_tsarnaev_twitter_account_boston_marathon_bombing_suspect_loved_eminem.html

Edited April 19, 2013 by Jingthing

[jamhar]

The father of suspected Boston Marathon bomber called on his son today to give up peacefully, but warned the U.S. that if his son is killed "all hell will break loose."

His son is suspected of killing 4 people, maiming scores of others, and he makes this kind of a threat. Well I guess the apple didn't fall too far from the tree.

All hell will break loose all right. I still say this will go on for at least ten years, tracking down all who were involved in and their top leaders wherever they are.

If that father wants to be another casualty, there are many who will accommodate him.

I fear you're right about his father NS. I perter peace thru peaceful means. if not,,,,,

similarly, I'd rather peace come faster than in 10 years, if not, well we'll take peace at any year.

I noticed that this attack has a galvanizing effect on Boston and the US. I think the Islamic operatives will find it increasingly difficult to operate in the US with increasing number of events. and each attach will get less attention and have less effect on the US economy. while the response to each attack will get better and more focused.

My point is that their tactic has diminishing returns with greater cost. Thats is true whether they wanted publicity or to "harm the US" like they claimed. But logic isn't their strong point, is it?

[jamhar]

Here is another serious question. IF the perp turned himself in now peacefully without murdering anyone new and then claimed some kind of psychological abuse defense blaming it all on the obviously more hard core older brother, is there ANY chance he could avoid being executed?

In my opinion, in those circumstance or perhaps others, it is possible he would not get the death penalty.

Death penalty is a states rights issue. and Mass does not have a death penalty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

[jamhar]

He is subject to a death penalty charge. To not execute him is leniency in this case, assuming he goes to trial.

I thought Massachusetts did not have the death penalty? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

Federal charges.

I stand corrected

As Obama has called this a terrorist act, there by setting the stage, the death penalty would be in play. And given how much the city has been harmed, Mass just MAY give up custody without a fight. That is if the suspect is captured alive.

[Publicus]

Timothy McVeigh was convicted on murder charges under federal law for the bombing of the United States Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

I suspect if the surviving holdout brother is captured, he will be tried in the U.S. District Court in Boston on terrorism charges. The Patriot Act, which sets the punishments for convicted terrorists is, however, silent on the death penalty. It would be up to the jury. I'd need to be a juror before I could make the call on this one. I should think however the government would present a strong and convincing case.

McVeigh was convicted on 11 federal charges, 8 of them murder and specifically murder of law enforcement personnel.

Murder is not ordinarily a federal crime (though there are many circumstances where it can be).

When Pres Kennedy was assassinated there wasn't any murder statute in the federal criminal code (of laws). Had Lee Harvey Oswald lived to go to trail, he would have had to be tried in Texas under the state murder/homicide statutes. Oswald's murderer, Jack Ruby, was tried, convicted and imprisoned in Texas under the criminal code of the state of Texas. The Congress put murder etc into the federal criminal code shortly after Pres Kennedy had been assassinated.

It's still true the federal government doesn't often have jurisdiction over murder/homicide cases. The vast majority of crime and also matters of civil law are adjudicated by the state. Massachusetts abolished the death penalty in 1984. (When Mitt Romney was governor he unsuccessfully tried to reinstitute the death penalty.)

[NeverSure]

Here is another serious question. IF the perp turned himself in now peacefully without murdering anyone new and then claimed some kind of psychological abuse defense blaming it all on the obviously more hard core older brother, is there ANY chance he could avoid being executed?

In my opinion, in those circumstance or perhaps others, it is possible he would not get the death penalty.

Death penalty is a states rights issue. and Mass does not have a death penalty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

We've already done this, but one more time. Even building, much less detonating a bomb is a federal offense and Mass. law is irrelevant. If caught and tried, it will be in federal court under federal court rules and federal law. I already posted a link where killing with a bomb gets the death penalty.

Violating federal law isn't a "states' rights issue." It comes under federal jurisdiction and the state won't be involved other than providing evidence and witnesses.

[Publicus]

The city and the event had everything to do with it.

Explain, please.

I believe Pres Obama said it very well in his statement at the interfaith service. You recall that Barack Obama and his wife lived three years "across the river" from Boston during law school. From the transcript:

"On Monday morning, the sun rose over Boston. The sunlight glistened off the State House Dome. In the commons, in the public garden, spring was in bloom. On this Patriot’s Day, like so many before, fans jumped onto the T to see the Sox at Fenway. In Hopkinton, runners laced up their shoes and set out on a 26.2-mile test of dedication and grit and the human spirit.

"It was a beautiful day to be in Boston, a day that explains why a poet once wrote that this town is not just a capital, not just a place. Boston, he said, is the perfect state of grace. (Applause.)

"And every third Monday in April, you welcome people from all around the world to the hub for friendship and fellowship and healthy competition -- a gathering of men and women of every race and every religion, every shape and every size -- a multitude represented by all those flags that flew over the finish line.

"Like you, Michelle and I have walked these streets. Like you, we know these neighborhoods. And like you, in this moment of grief, we join you in saying: Boston, you’re my home. For millions of us, what happened in Monday is personal. It’s personal.

"Your resolve is the greatest rebuke to whoever committed this heinous act. If they sought to intimidate us, to terrorize us, to shake us from those values that [Governor] Deval [Patrick ] described, the values that make us who we are as Americans, well, it should be pretty clear by now that they picked the wrong city to do it. (Cheers, applause.) Not here in Boston. Not here in Boston. (Cheers and applause continue.)

"You showed us, Boston, that in the face of evil, Americans will lift up what’s good. In the face of cruelty, we will choose compassion. In the face of those who would visit death upon innocents, we will choose to save and to comfort and to heal. We’ll choose friendship."

[jamhar]

Here is another serious question. IF the perp turned himself in now peacefully without murdering anyone new and then claimed some kind of psychological abuse defense blaming it all on the obviously more hard core older brother, is there ANY chance he could avoid being executed?

In my opinion, in those circumstance or perhaps others, it is possible he would not get the death penalty.

Death penalty is a states rights issue. and Mass does not have a death penalty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

We've already done this, but one more time. Even building, much less detonating a bomb is a federal offense and Mass. law is irrelevant. If caught and tried, it will be in federal court under federal court rules and federal law. I already posted a link where killing with a bomb gets the death penalty.

Violating federal law isn't a "states' rights issue." It comes under federal jurisdiction and the state won't be involved other than providing evidence and witnesses.

and i've already consented

regarding the states right issue,

true, IF the boston police is able to capture him alive

[jamhar]

Timothy McVeigh was convicted on murder charges under federal law for the bombing of the United States Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

I suspect if the surviving holdout brother is captured, he will be tried in the U.S. District Court in Boston on terrorism charges. The Patriot Act, which sets the punishments for convicted terrorists is, however, silent on the death penalty. It would be up to the jury. I'd need to be a juror before I could make the call on this one. I should think however the government would present a strong and convincing case.

McVeigh was convicted on 11 federal charges, 8 of them murder and specifically murder of law enforcement personnel.

Murder is not ordinarily a federal crime (though there are many circumstances where it can be).

When Pres Kennedy was assassinated there wasn't any murder statute in the federal criminal code (of laws). Had Lee Harvey Oswald lived to go to trail, he would have had to be tried in Texas under the state murder/homicide statutes. Oswald's murderer, Jack Ruby, was tried, convicted and imprisoned in Texas under the criminal code of the state of Texas. The Congress put murder etc into the federal criminal code shortly after Pres Kennedy had been assassinated.

It's still true the federal government doesn't often have jurisdiction over murder/homicide cases. The vast majority of crime and also matters of civil law are adjudicated by the state. Massachusetts abolished the death penalty in 1984. (When Mitt Romney was governor he unsuccessfully tried to reinstitute the death penalty.)

I'm not a lawyer, but hasnt treason always been on the books for federal death penalty?