Another great column by Charles Krauthammer:

Israelis have wanted nothing more than peace and security for all the children. That’s why they accepted the 1947 U.N. partition of British Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state. Unfortunately — another asymmetry — the Arabs said no. To this day, the Palestinians have rejected every peace offer that leaves a Jewish state standing. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-what-really-happened-in-jerusalem/2013/03/28/5b018070-97d2-11e2-b68f-dc5c4b47e519_story.html

they even reject that continously parts of their land is stolen. unreasonable people these Palestinians!

It is not their land. They lost any claim by rejecting the UN deal and declaring war on Israel in 1948. They need to make peace and negociate if they want their own country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22565285

Ultra-Orthodox Jews in mass protest against Israel army draft

Nothing new, but a weakness at israel's core.

It is new. Up until now certain ultra-orthodox communities have been exempt from military service, because they do not recognise the State of Israel as having dominion over them. They are in the land of their forefathers because it was promised to them by God, not because of any political, military or diplomatic event/approval.

I don't know what attitude they would take if the Arab armies were successful in an attack on Israel, but I suspect that they would walk to the ovens without a murmur.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22565285

Ultra-Orthodox Jews in mass protest against Israel army draft

Nothing new, but a weakness at israel's core.

It is new. Up until now certain ultra-orthodox communities have been exempt from military service, because they do not recognise the State of Israel as having dominion over them. They are in the land of their forefathers because it was promised to them by God, not because of any political, military or diplomatic event/approval.

I don't know what attitude they would take if the Arab armies were successful in an attack on Israel, but I suspect that they would walk to the ovens without a murmur.

These are indeed the Jews for genocide, as Melanie Phillips would no doubt argue. Imho any Jews who refuse to be drafted should lose their voting rights as well.

The Haredi military service exclusion issue is an INTERNAL Israeli matter to be decided democratically by Israelis.

The Haredi military service exclusion issue is an INTERNAL Israeli matter to be decided democratically by Israelis.

Absolutely! But I have spent well over a million dollars in my lifetime learning this valuable lesson, "never do do more for someone else than they are willing to do for themselves" *. Until the Israelis have exhausted all of their internal resources, which are plentiful, in their own defense, the US of A has no dog in that hunt.

* children excluded

The Haredi military service exclusion issue is an INTERNAL Israeli matter to be decided democratically by Israelis.

Absolutely! But I have spent well over a million dollars in my lifetime learning this valuable lesson, "never do do more for someone else than they are willing to do for themselves" *. Until the Israelis have exhausted all of their internal resources, which are plentiful, in their own defense, the US of A has no dog in that hunt.

* children excluded

Then it must be very frustrating for you considering a significant majority of Americans support our close friendship with Israel and there is no sign at all that is likely to change.

The Haredi military service exclusion issue is an INTERNAL Israeli matter to be decided democratically by Israelis.

Absolutely! But I have spent well over a million dollars in my lifetime learning this valuable lesson, "never do do more for someone else than they are willing to do for themselves" *. Until the Israelis have exhausted all of their internal resources, which are plentiful, in their own defense, the US of A has no dog in that hunt.

* children excluded

Then it must be very frustrating for you considering a significant majority of Americans support our close friendship with Israel and there is no sign at all that is likely to change.

I too support our close friendship with Israel. I just think we should stop sending them foreign aid since they are so rich themselves. I also don't think any Americans should die on their behalf when so many Israelis are not willing to die on their own behalves. Anyway, it's been nice battling with you. Maybe we can catch a ballgame if you find yourself on the West Coast. I think I get banned tonight.

Edited May 18, 201313 yr by lannarebirth

The Haredi military service exclusion issue is an INTERNAL Israeli matter to be decided democratically by Israelis.

All right, it's an internal matter. I accept that.

I think, in parallel, that the West should stop backing Israel with arms and money (I'm not sure how much they do do so now) until all Israelis are prepared to fight for themselves. And even my moral support gets a bit strained.

The Haredi military service exclusion issue is an INTERNAL Israeli matter to be decided democratically by Israelis.

All right, it's an internal matter. I accept that.

I think, in parallel, that the West should stop backing Israel with arms and money (I'm not sure how much they do do so now) until all Israelis are prepared to fight for themselves. And even my moral support gets a bit strained.

You too enjoy being frustrated. America will never give up on Israel.

The Haredi military service exclusion issue is an INTERNAL Israeli matter to be decided democratically by Israelis.

All right, it's an internal matter. I accept that.

I think, in parallel, that the West should stop backing Israel with arms and money (I'm not sure how much they do do so now) until all Israelis are prepared to fight for themselves. And even my moral support gets a bit strained.

You too enjoy being frustrated. America will never give up on Israel.

you meant of course "American Jews will never allow America to 'give up' Israel."

The Haredi military service exclusion issue is an INTERNAL Israeli matter to be decided democratically by Israelis.

Absolutely! But I have spent well over a million dollars in my lifetime learning this valuable lesson, "never do do more for someone else than they are willing to do for themselves" *. Until the Israelis have exhausted all of their internal resources, which are plentiful, in their own defense, the US of A has no dog in that hunt.

* children excluded

Then it must be very frustrating for you considering a significant majority of Americans support our close friendship with Israel and there is no sign at all that is likely to change.

I too support our close friendship with Israel. I just think we should stop sending them foreign aid since they are so rich themselves. I also don't think any Americans should die on their behalf when so many Israelis are not willing to die on their own behalves. Anyway, it's been nice battling with you. Maybe we can catch a ballgame if you find yourself on the West Coast. I think I get banned tonight.

Israel is not that rich LRB. the military service of young men and women is a huge drain on its economy. building new settlements producing "produce" to be exported does not compensate for that drain. without the official and last not least the aid from Diaspora Jews the economic outlook would be quite bleak.

The Haredi military service exclusion issue is an INTERNAL Israeli matter to be decided democratically by Israelis.

All right, it's an internal matter. I accept that.

I think, in parallel, that the West should stop backing Israel with arms and money (I'm not sure how much they do do so now) until all Israelis are prepared to fight for themselves. And even my moral support gets a bit strained.

You too enjoy being frustrated. America will never give up on Israel.

you meant of course "American Jews will never allow America to 'give up' Israel."

No, I don't mean that. I mean America as a whole. A pet peeve of mine is people telling me what I think with a snarky twist. Also, if American Jews are so powerful as you imply, why am I not rich? Where is my Hasbara check? I haven't seen penny one.

Edited May 18, 201313 yr by Jingthing

if you control the media you control the minds, the american jews own the media hence.....

if you control the media you control the minds, the american jews own the media hence.....

No they don't. That is antisemitic rubbish.

Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical

allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective —

such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish

conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or

other societal institutions.

http://www.european-forum-on-antisemitism.org/working-definition-of-antisemitism/english/

The myth that Jews control the media is alive and well in the USA as

well. The Racist magazine "National Vanguard" says that

"Jewish control of the American mass media is the single most important

fact of life, not just in America, but in the whole world today".

It lists "Jews" (some of whom aren't even Jewish!) in all sorts of

position in the media and claims this proves that Jews control the

media.

If you accept their reasoning a similar claim could be made that women

control the media, people with blue eyes control the media or that those

with red hair control the media.

http://www.zionismontheweb.org/antizionism/Zionists_Control_Media.htm

Of course in Israel, Jews DO control the media just as in Iran, Muslims control the media ...

Edited May 18, 201313 yr by Jingthing

Rising Jewish political star Naftali Bennett says that the two-state idea is 'hopeless'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/naftali-bennett-two-state-solution-hopeless

If people like him get control of Israel, there is NO solution left to the Palestinian question.... except a bloodbath.

Rising Jewish political star Naftali Bennett says that the two-state idea is 'hopeless'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/naftali-bennett-two-state-solution-hopeless

If people like him get control of Israel, there is NO solution left to the Palestinian question.... except a bloodbath.

People like him DO control Israel, and the US Congress for that matter.

The problem is that he has real point. The Palestinians have been offered some very generous terms, but they keep saying no. How long do they get to keep refusing to do the right thing and make peace?

Rising Jewish political star Naftali Bennett says that the two-state idea is 'hopeless'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/naftali-bennett-two-state-solution-hopeless

If people like him get control of Israel, there is NO solution left to the Palestinian question.... except a bloodbath.

People like him DO control Israel, and the US Congress for that matter.

Would that be congress as a whole, or the Jews in congress?

The problem is that he has real point. The Palestinians have been offered some very generous terms, but they keep saying no. How long do they get to keep refusing to do the right thing and make peace?

In that case, wouldn't it be better to get the bloodbath over with, and start rebuilding from there? Because that really is what you saying, UG.

The problem is that he has real point. The Palestinians have been offered some very generous terms, but they keep saying no. How long do they get to keep refusing to do the right thing and make peace?

In that case, wouldn't it be better to get the bloodbath over with, and start rebuilding from there? Because that really is what you saying, UG.

This begs the question whether or not giving the Palestinians a state would itself avert a bloodbath, which is the policy people are expected to swallow in spite of the Hamas charter and the genocidal rhetoric of the Palestinian media. As it stands the Palestinians aren't even being asked to lie about their true intentions.

P.S Why get the bloodbath over with when your enemies are just as likely to slaughter one another first, best let time pass as quietly as possible imho.

Some truth in your P.S., Dan.

The problem is that he has real point. The Palestinians have been offered some very generous terms, but they keep saying no. How long do they get to keep refusing to do the right thing and make peace?

In that case, wouldn't it be better to get the bloodbath over with, and start rebuilding from there? Because that really is what you saying, UG.

IMO, the worst mistake the Israelis made was allowing Arabs to remain in Israel after they were defeated the first time in 1948. I understand that they were idealistic and trying to build a better world, but the decision has come back to haunt them for the last 60+ years. However, hindsight is always 20/20.

As what to do now, I leave that up to Israel. They have built a vibrant, successful counrty despite their enemies and they certainly understand what they are dealing with more than I do.

Rising Jewish political star Naftali Bennett says that the two-state idea is 'hopeless'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/naftali-bennett-two-state-solution-hopeless

If people like him get control of Israel, there is NO solution left to the Palestinian question.... except a bloodbath.

People like him DO control Israel, and the US Congress for that matter.

Would that be congress as a whole, or the Jews in congress?

Those Senators and Congresspersons that head committees and therefore the sponsoring or tabling of legislation and funding.. Feinstein ,Graham, McCain, etc.

IMO, the worst mistake the Israelis made was allowing Arabs to remain in Israel after they were defeated the first time in 1948. I understand that they were idealistic and trying to build a better world, but the decision has come back to haunt them for the last 60+ years. However, hindsight is always 20/20.

As what to do now, I leave that up to Israel. They have built a vibrant, successful counrty despite their enemies and they certainly understand what they are dealing with more than I do.

Yes, very successful, and I admire them for it.

However, inevitably they will see only one side of the problem, and therefore should not be left to deal with it on their own.

If you get the chance, definitely watch The Gatekeepers. In my view, it's quite fairly balanced and of course quite dark because the reality of this story is quite dark.

The most fascinating part of the movie to me was the true story that the Israeli security forces when they first started exploring how to deal with the west bank Arabs they learned Arabic and were tasked with COUNTING them, an innocent enough exercise on the face of it.

Anyway, they were saying the Arabic wrong because of their accents.

They would knock on the doors of the homes and say in Arabic: Hello we are here to count you.

But it came out as: Hello we are here to castrate you!

Bad start!

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+gatekeepers&view=detail&mid=84DA3E291C37AAF4ACBC84DA3E291C37AAF4ACBC&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR

Edited June 27, 201313 yr by Jingthing

Here is another reason why the continued existence of the Jewish state of Israel is vitally important to Jews all over the world.

This is in the country most friendly to Israel in the world. Imagine the feelings in hostile countries: