Should We Learn The Language?

[Mudcrab]

I never reply to these things, but something should be cleared up (some posters have, but here I go again): most Thais, like 99% of them can speak and understand standard Thai. Even the long neck ladies out in the boonies in the North can. I have been to all the regions and never once run into someone who just didn't speak Thai (unless they were actually immigrants from another country) and I have definitely been to out-of-the-way places in all the regions. Never learned any of the Northern or Southern dialects. Just spoke Thai to them.

As for staying longer, you can just use standard Thai and people will slowly point out the local variants to you. Of course, they can and will code switch, so you just have to get used to that. But if someone really wants to talk to you, they can easily just switch back to Thai.

I cannot imagine how it would be to live here without learning Thai. It changes the way people see you and interact with you. Several times, somewhere in the countryside, I have had the same experience: sit down for a coke or a beer. Order in Thai. The shopkeeper, who had been kind of apprehensive about my presence, suddenly would do a 180 and just be so happy to talk to us. Neighbors get called over. Then, invariably, after they finish freaking out about me speaking Thai, they start in about the Falang in the area, no matter where he is from, who has been there for 10-15 years or whatever and can't speak a word of Thai. It irks them. They don't say they hate the guy, but the resentment is clear.

But for me, beyond how others see me, it is just about enjoying being here. I can't imagine not being able to make small talk in a store, get things I want without a babysitter, etc. Granted, sometimes I turn out to be that babysitter for recent arrivals, but I don't mind. I just wouldn't want to do that here for years. Many of the negative reactions to foreigners just disappear when you can have basic conversations.

That leads to another point. A lot of posters are saying it is too difficult. Well, it all depends on what you want to do. It would probably take me several more years to ever even dream about taking a university class in Thai, but I don't want to. On the other hand, I can sit down with a beer/whiskey/meal and have a group conversation and get along understanding most of what it said and I can even contribute to the conversation. Most conversations here are not about rocket science--they are about people and things happening now.

Of course, it is difficult at the beginning, but, having learned other Asian languages, I remember starting out and mispronouncing words so badly that people couldn't understand me. Now, I can't even remember how I mispronounced them. It's a matter of time, practice and persistence.

Learn what you need to learn to enjoy living here more.

Good post. That is one side of things.

The other side might be me. I don't get any enjoyment at all from making small talk to people (in any language). The world is bleak. Life is largely arbitrary and short. There is no god or afterlife. People, for the most part, care only about themselves and will not think much of you when you are no longer here.

So, against that backdrop, I really don't want any small talk. I like to have 'more meaningful' (what is meaningful to me) conversations with people. However, even in Western countries, among rather educated populace, most people don't want to have deeper conversations. It's more comfortable to just gossip or to find other ways of creating likeness and forming and nurturing human bonds. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't really need much of it. When I want that feeling of connectedness, I can just do as I'm sure many do and find a young thing to spend some short time with.

Thailand is a place that is particularly hard to find a deeper conversation. You will not find many Thais who wish to discuss (in Thai or English and with Thais or non-Thais) any serious issues such as cultural, economy, politics, violence, religion. Even the most elite are mostly interested in talking about the 'new' Som Tam place and other, innocent current events. That's also beautiful in itself -- to be so simple, but some of us just don't enjoy that I'm gathering. I don't. I can have similar conversations with young children...

Yeah, I totally agree with that and I understand why you wouldn't be motivated...it depresses me sometimes. Of all the conversations I have had here, most are about the most trivial things. There are two guys I know who can and do engage in more interesting conversations, but they are definitely the exceptions. The they kind of outed themselves by bringing up world affairs (wife's uncle) and Mongolian history (random government official in my apt block) and it was fun to try out new words and sentences. But yeah, the remainder of the time, it is all trivial. I just like being able to shoot the proverbial shizen with the people down at the shop or wherever, even if for just a few minutes.

I agree with both of you about meaningful conversations being in the minority - I think that's indisputable - however, I have had countless deep and interesting conversations over the years that I never would or could have had without being able to speak Thai (far) better than the person whom I was speaking to could speak English.

And, in the aggregate, one can learn a lot from seemingly trivial interactions as well.

So true,,,,when you stop and think about it 90% of most of our interactions are trivial, in any language. Not trivial in meaning a waste of time, but trivial I the sense of , for example going to a meeting at work and asking the colleague, report or boss, how are they, how's the wife, kids, good round of golf last weekend, did you see the fish I caught. To be able to do this in the language of the country one resides would be wonderful and make life richer and more fulfilling...in my opinion.

[SteeleJoe]

So true,,,,when you stop and think about it 90% of most of our interactions are trivial, in any language. Not trivial in meaning a waste of time, but trivial I the sense of , for example going to a meeting at work and asking the colleague, report or boss, how are they, how's the wife, kids, good round of golf last weekend, did you see the fish I caught. To be able to do this in the language of the country one resides would be wonderful and make life richer and more fulfilling...in my opinion.

In agreeing with me you actually point out something I missed and I'm glad you did as it leaves me feeling a bit warm and fuzzy: aside from the fact that I think you can learn a lot about a country and it's people e based on just what sort of trivia is discussed and how (and that applies to any western country as well), but also it often makes your day just a bit nicer...I think of the millions (?) of little moments of pleasant interaction I've had with people over the years and how diminished my life would be without any of them (in my own country as well....gotta go but I want to elaborate later)...

[Neeranam]

Addendum to earlier post replying to Berkshire:

I should have made it even stronger - fact is I almost certainly never would even have MET Mrs SteeleJoe without being able to speak Thai, let alone have a conversation with her.

Having said that, even if she weren't part of my story and never had been, I would still be certain that learning Thai made a profound impact on my life for the better in many, many quantifiable ways as well as those less tangible or easily measured (I was using Thai for 10 years before I met her).

The girl I spoke to years ago wouldn't be the future Mrs. Neeranam as she didn't speak a word of English then. Those, now laughable, first words - kor thawt na krap, chuey pom dai mai? dai Pom tham ber thorasap haai, kor yeum ber kong khun dai mai? Excuse me can you help me please. Yes. I've lost my telephone number, can I borrow yours please,

[thaicbr]

When I did try once my mrs told me I called the lady a dog.

And you probably meant to..be honest

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[laislica]

There is a totally hidden benefit to learning a new language.

Neurons rewire themselves and adapt as you learn.

This activity keeps your brain young and helps to ward off the onset of Alzheimer's and other memory problems that seem to attack us as we age.

The old use it or lose it!

It seems that after about 25, we have pretty well learned what we need to know so survive and we tend to run on autopilot and that allows the brain to stagnate. Doing something like learning a new language refreshes the brain.

[thaicbr]

A some quick questions to those that have learnt Thai. If you could answer all. Thanks.

1. How long did it take to learn?

2. What level do you consider yourself. Learner.

Proficient. Fluent.

3. Did you learn at a school or by yourselves?

4. Were you in full time employment when learning?

Thanks. Your answers MAY give inspiration to others.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[Neeranam]

I don't agree with the 'ignorance is bliss' philosophy.<br />Learning the language is a long process.<br />Take the guy who learns his first word - 'farang'. He hears it is rude, then every time he hears a Thai say it he assumes wrongly that they are talking bad. Like me in my first year - I'd scowl at the bus conductress every time I got on the bus and she'd point to the back saying 'farang'. Well as my ears and my vocabulary developed, I became aware that they were saying 'kanglang' or go to the back.<br />Then the guy who has been learning for a while and knows that 'mun' is a bad pronoun to use. He goes mental on his mother-in-law for saying it about him. Then shortly after learns that it can be used as a term of affection towards family members.<br />Of course this could be all crap as I'm still learning. But the longer you learn the more aware you become of the finer nuances of the language. I like awareness.<br />Last night when out with some friends eating, we went to the back of the restaurant. When I went the the toilet, I over heard the waitress in the kitchen talking about the group of farangs. She used the pronoun 'mun'. This used to drive me crazy but now I realize that's it just the way Thais talk about farang. Hopefully this will change. I remember how my grannie used to talk about my mate from Sieria Leone, and Thais when I came here. She changed when she became more knowledge. Words that were used for different races 50 years ago would never be used now.<br />Thais stopped using the word 'jek' for the Chinese as it became offensive. The word 'kaek' for Indians/Arabs is becoming more offensive. Using 'mun' when talking about farang will slowly disappear.<br />Do I want to be aware of the ignorant ones or be the ignorant one in bliss?<br />

[kriswillems]

I think anyone staying in any country longer than 6 months should try to learn language the country he/she stays in.

- I think you can integrate and get Thai friends when you speak Thai. You'll always be "a bit of an outsider", but if you don't speak the language you're a "complete outsider". After being many years in Thailand I feel much more related to Thai people than to the farang that live here. I can even says that my Thai friends are closer to me than any friend of my country has ever been.

- If you speak the language you can go anywhere without help.

- If you speak the language you'll pay less, because it will be much easier to find the cheapest source of a product and it's much less likely you'll be overcharged.

- if you can read the language you can understand legal documents and laws which makes things much easier.

- if you speak the language you'll save a lot of time because communication will be much faster.

- if you speak the language you show respect for the culture of Thai people and they appreciate it.

- if you speak the language it's much likely to end up into discussions or fights caused by a misunderstanding.

- if you speak the language it's much easier to find a good girlfriend or boyfriend because there are much more people to choose from.

- most people that speak the language are more happy here and they feel less need to hang around in bars to join complaining sessions with their fellow non-Thai speaking farangs.

- If you can read Thai you can read road signs and actually correctly pronounce the name of the place you're going to.

- If you can read Thai you can read the information that is in the medicine box.

- If you can read Thai you can check on the bookkeeping and other financial information of the business you're the owner of or the business you work in.

- If you can speak and read Thai you can follow courses that are intended for Thai people.

- If you can read Thai you can buy technical books at a fraction of the price of the English language version

These are just a few examples.

Learning to speak, read and write Thai costed me 6 months (full time) but it is the most useful thing I have done here since I arrived.

Edited April 24, 2013 by kriswillems

[Naam]

i don't protest, i defend my personal opinion by stating facts and of course also by pulling some legs.

You know full what I meant in my obvious Hamlet reference: by your absolutely invariable insistence on framing the uses of Thai in the most trivial and pedestrian (and unworthy) ways possible and your mockery of the very notion that it could be of real value, you unwittingly make it obvious why you are doing so...

And you employ a lot more than "facts".

i choose mockery when i deem it necessary and prefer to ridicule ridiculous arguments and subtle accusations instead of using the usual cheap insults which usually prevail in Thaivisa on a daily basis.

[Neeranam]

A some quick questions to those that have learnt Thai. If you could answer all. Thanks.

1. How long did it take to learn?

2. What level do you consider yourself. Learner.

Proficient. Fluent.

3. Did you learn at a school or by yourselves?

4. Were you in full time employment when learning?

Thanks. Your answers MAY give inspiration to others.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Learner 6 months

Proficient 5 years

Fluent in some areas 8-10 years, in others still not fluent.

I was in full time employment and never went to any classes. Immersed myself with girls who couldn't speak English.

[Naam]

Addendum to earlier post replying to Berkshire:

I should have made it even stronger - fact is I almost certainly never would even have MET Mrs SteeleJoe without being able to speak Thai, let alone have a conversation with her.

Having said that, even if she weren't part of my story and never had been, I would still be certain that learning Thai made a profound impact on my life for the better in many, many quantifiable ways as well as those less tangible or easily measured (I was using Thai for 10 years before I met her).

you dawg! did you confess to Mrs SteeleJoe that the main reason why you learned Thai was because of "this huge, huge number of women...?"

[Naam]

I speak decent Thai (read, write OK as well). Once you have the language patterns/grammar down, much is simply knowing vocabulary...

Anyway, I put in time to become OK (not fluent, perhaps) in Thai, but it was largely not worth it in my opinion.

Of a certain age (beyond my teens and early 20s), I am sufficiently comfortable in my being and sufficiently different and lack much in common with the average Thai. Most of the people who would have anything interesting to say to me speak --- English well enough to converse. So, Thai, for me, is largely a dead language. Of almost no value whatsoever. Biggest benefit is simply the cool factor and impressing women (who are easily impressed).

The news papers in Thai - waste.

The news in Thai - waste.

Literature in Thai - largely non-existent.

Save your time, folks. It's not worth it.

Learning Thai does not make much available to us.

Congratulations... This may be one of the most biased and negative posts ever.

facts are never biased.

[StreetCowboy]

I speak decent Thai (read, write OK as well). Once you have the language patterns/grammar down, much is simply knowing vocabulary...

Anyway, I put in time to become OK (not fluent, perhaps) in Thai, but it was largely not worth it in my opinion.

Of a certain age (beyond my teens and early 20s), I am sufficiently comfortable in my being and sufficiently different and lack much in common with the average Thai. Most of the people who would have anything interesting to say to me speak --- English well enough to converse. So, Thai, for me, is largely a dead language. Of almost no value whatsoever. Biggest benefit is simply the cool factor and impressing women (who are easily impressed).

The news papers in Thai - waste.

The news in Thai - waste.

Literature in Thai - largely non-existent.

Save your time, folks. It's not worth it.

Learning Thai does not make much available to us.

Congratulations... This may be one of the most biased and negative posts ever.

facts are never biased.

Posts sometimes are. Sometimes, posters claim statements as facts when they are actually prejudiced judgemental opinion.

SC

[Naam]

I'll agree with K. Naam on this one: Whether you order the food in Thai language yourself, point at a picture on the wall or at someone else's plate, or have your Thai companion order for you, the food is still the same.

Yes, the food is the same, but your ability to relate to the world around you is severely diminished.

tears are rolling down my cheeks...

[lemoncake]

A some quick questions to those that have learnt Thai. If you could answer all. Thanks.

1. How long did it take to learn?

2. What level do you consider yourself. Learner.

Proficient. Fluent.

3. Did you learn at a school or by yourselves?

4. Were you in full time employment when learning?

Thanks. Your answers MAY give inspiration to others.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

1. Still learning(already over 10 years here)

2. I consider myself being a learner, though some think i am proficient.

3. Went to school and every day learning

4. Yes full time employed, while helpful still not really a solution as the language learned is only around the work specifics

Edited April 24, 2013 by lemoncake

[SteeleJoe]

Addendum to earlier post replying to Berkshire:

I should have made it even stronger - fact is I almost certainly never would even have MET Mrs SteeleJoe without being able to speak Thai, let alone have a conversation with her.

Having said that, even if she weren't part of my story and never had been, I would still be certain that learning Thai made a profound impact on my life for the better in many, many quantifiable ways as well as those less tangible or easily measured (I was using Thai for 10 years before I met her).

you dawg! did you confess to Mrs SteeleJoe that the main reason why you learned Thai was because of "this huge, huge number of women...?"

1) I never referred to a huge, huge number of women.

2) I explicitly stated that meeting women was not a motivating factor let alone "the main reason" (something I never said or implied - quite the contrary).

3) Mrs SteeleJoe knows quite a lot about my womanizing ways of yesteryear and knew almost as much then - it was one reason it took so long to get her to give me a chance - given that we lived in the same building and everyone there gossiped about my frequent conquests (as a young and reasonably appealing DJ and pub manager with lots of opportunities).

But thanks for your interest!

[Naam]

But thanks for your interest!

did you deliberately miss this smiley in my post?

[Kitsune]

I couldnt live here without speaking thai and I really wonder how people that dont speak manage to live here, not get frustrated or riped off all the time

Easy: I get ripped off anyhow, even if I understand. I prefer not to know I have been ripped off, it ruins my day.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Kitsune

[transam]

I have had many Thai folk come to my place who are learning or have past their exams in English, even Uni folk. They look forward to see and talk with a real English guy. For them I speak my perfect English. Sadly most do not understand what I am saying. I even tell them my thoughts of the nationality of their teacher , usually they say I am right. Same with me and trying to speak Thai or Lao. They don't understand me.

[SteeleJoe]

But thanks for your interest!

did you deliberately miss this smiley in my post?

But thanks for your interest!

did you deliberately miss this smiley in my post?

No, I didn't. The line you quote was intended to convey a tongue in cheek attitude.

Nonetheless, smiley or no your whole post was based on a reply to something I never said and indeed contradicted what I did say - so I thought it valid to point that out.

Edited April 24, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Pops]

Of course you have to learn to speak Thai when you live in Thailand.

Reasons enough, integration in Thai society, respect, common sense.

We are all guests here and need to adapt, not the other way around, no matter how good or bad the Thais speak English.

That doesn't even matter.

Most immigrants, or should I say expats, living in Thailand, frown upon immigrants in their home countries, not speaking their languages.

Then they come here and do not even try to learn to speak Thai.

Or even worse, they complain about the level of spoken English, of the Thais.

[Thaddeus]

I'll agree with K. Naam on this one: Whether you order the food in Thai language yourself, point at a picture on the wall or at someone else's plate, or have your Thai companion order for you, the food is still the same.

Yes, the food is the same, but your ability to relate to the world around you is severely diminished.

tears are rolling down my cheeks...

And the food was still the same.

[thaicbr]

Of course you have to learn to speak Thai when you live in Thailand.

Reasons enough, integration in Thai society, respect, common sense.

We are all guests here and need to adapt, not the other way around, no matter how good or bad the Thais speak English.

That doesn't even matter.

Most immigrants, or should I say expats, living in Thailand, frown upon immigrants in their home countries, not speaking their languages.

Then they come here and do not even try to learn to speak Thai.

Or even worse, they complain about the level of spoken English, of the Thais.

Change your statement to "try and learn" and I will agree with you. Although to be fair I have been extremely lazy trying. And use English in my work for 12 hours a day.. finding a decent teacher is difficult. but yes .. lazy sums it up

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[Thaddeus]

One thing that really, and I mean really does set my teeth on edge, is the Thai application of English words.

I had to top up the credit on my mobile phone tonight, went to one of the local phone shops and asked for "one two call, sam loi baht"

Blank stare, got the mobile phone out of my pocket and pointed at it......

"Oh, one tooo call sam loi baht"

btw, it's a computer, not a Com Pew TER.

I am trying to learn their language, can they do me a favour and at least not ride roughshod over mine.

[SteeleJoe]

One thing that really, and I mean really does set my teeth on edge, is the Thai application of English words.

I had to top up the credit on my mobile phone tonight, went to one of the local phone shops and asked for "one two call, sam loi baht"

Blank stare, got the mobile phone out of my pocket and pointed at it......

"Oh, one tooo call sam loi baht"

btw, it's a computer, not a Com Pew TER.

I am trying to learn their language, can they do me a favour and at least not ride roughshod over mine.

Bugs me too. Part of the problem however, is Thai, like many or most languages, has "loan words" - English obviously has a lot - and their loan words are pronounced differently than the original English version (just as ours sound different from French etc)

Edited April 24, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[lemoncake]

One thing that really, and I mean really does set my teeth on edge, is the Thai application of English words.

I had to top up the credit on my mobile phone tonight, went to one of the local phone shops and asked for "one two call, sam loi baht"

Blank stare, got the mobile phone out of my pocket and pointed at it......

"Oh, one tooo call sam loi baht"

btw, it's a computer, not a Com Pew TER.

I am trying to learn their language, can they do me a favour and at least not ride roughshod over mine.

Do you mean like

Its not Coke but Colaaa

Not Honda but Hondaaa

Not FREE but Fleee

[notmyself]

Le oooooo

[JLCrab]

I'll agree with K. Naam on this one: Whether you order the food in Thai language yourself, point at a picture on the wall or at someone else's plate, or have your Thai companion order for you, the food is still the same.

Yes, the food is the same, but your ability to relate to the world around you is severely diminished.

tears are rolling down my cheeks...

And the food was still the same.

Yesterday I went shopping for some groceries, chatted with the staff at the fitness club, had a visitor, had a few conversations on the mobile telephone, went out again to buy some things, and there was not one one conversation out of the dozen plus that was not in Thai language. So much for my diminished world.

Edited April 24, 2013 by JLCrab

[Thaddeus]

Yesterday I went shopping for some groceries, chatted with the staff at the fitness club, had a visitor, had a few conversations on the mobile telephone, went out again to buy some things, and there was not one one conversation out of the dozen plus that was not in Thai language. So much for my diminished world.

Poot Tam Kroo.....

Apples, oranges.

[BradinAsia]

I speak decent Thai (read, write OK as well). Once you have the language patterns/grammar down, much is simply knowing vocabulary...

Anyway, I put in time to become OK (not fluent, perhaps) in Thai, but it was largely not worth it in my opinion.

Of a certain age (beyond my teens and early 20s), I am sufficiently comfortable in my being and sufficiently different and lack much in common with the average Thai. Most of the people who would have anything interesting to say to me speak --- English well enough to converse. So, Thai, for me, is largely a dead language. Of almost no value whatsoever. Biggest benefit is simply the cool factor and impressing women (who are easily impressed).

The news papers in Thai - waste.

The news in Thai - waste.

Literature in Thai - largely non-existent.

Save your time, folks. It's not worth it.

Learning Thai does not make much available to us.

Congratulations... This may be one of the most biased and negative posts ever.

facts are never biased.

Hmmm... who will decide what part is fact and what part is carabao excrement?