not so much a letter but a report on how life in the uk has taken us since we departed from chiangmai 7 months ago.

from the initiation of visa applications through to the copious amounts of paperwork, cost, as well as having to deal with the now defunct incompetent 'border agency' to where we are this day, a small cottage in northumberland has taken us the good part of a year, if not longer.

was it worth it, well circumstances dictated we had to do it, but if a choice had been presented to me to avoid the upheaval, definitely not.

life in the uk after 11 years in thailand, of which 4.5 were in chiangmai, has become for me quite a culture shock, the country daren't fart without causing upset to one faction or other, those in power seem to spend more time covering their assess, without achieving much or nothing at all.

regulation, control, form filling, background checks, criminal checks are standard procedure for any job, and if your lucky enough to get a reply an, interview is initially a telephone call, from which the faceless human ticks the necessary boxes and judgement is made, human contact must be avoided at all cost.

the nations health service may be a model envied by most, but in reality is as slow as the proverbial snail, gp's have a 10 minute slot allocated to each and all, it took me 12 days just to get an appointment, so i guess a house call is out of the question, prescribing medicine is like asking them for a fiver, they treat it as if it's their own, which probably is also something to do with the responsibility that lies with doc to prescribe the correct drugs, correct amount, and if at all possible none, as was suggested to me with regards to my sleep problem,'find an alternative method' even better if it doesn't cost the nhs anything.

food, petrol, gas, electric, house tax, road tax, tv, etc is just a massive rip off

youth........jees, let's not even go there!

now for the negatives, just kidding, there are some positives..............!!!!!! [they'll come to me i know just give me some time.

well as you'll have gathered, i'm not really settling well at all, it's just as well my young son has settled fantastically,[ a bonus of being recognized at the tender age of 8 by the 'english golf assoc.' as a 'one for the future' with masses of support covering all aspects] and that my missus has found some good work, with the benefit of working with another couple of thais, that makes life easier.

make good of what you guys and gals have over there, we all know that thailand has it's own set of problems, as do most countries, but for a place to live and to be happy, chiangmai is wonderful.

oh, did i mention the weather across here?

be safe one and all.

Firstly presuming you have a Settlement Visa for your wife,what copious amounts of paperwork are you talking about? Normally there are no forms to fill out once your wife has a Visa,and you do not need to check in to Immigration or the Police for the whole 2 years and 3 months Visa,and it's normal to have no contact at all with the UKBA,would you prefer 30, 60, or 90 day check ins?

Copious amounts of paperwork! could you be more specific on the nature of the forms?

12 days to see your Doctor i've never heard of such a wait,normally if you want to see a specific Dr,and he is fully booked on any one day or on holiday,then you can see another Dr in the Practice,and on the same day. Our Doctors are dedicated to their job and some of the finest in the world,to state that they are penny pinching with prescriptions as if it was their own money,is disgraceful,they do not count the cost of patients health,and their patients health is paramount,and is their only concern,and BTW patients pay £7.80 for each prescription,whether it covers the cost or not.

Form filling: every Country has that,Driving Licence,Passports,Road Tax,Insurance,NI Card,Regulations, applications,CRB checks,Background checks etc etc.

Yes the UK is more expensive to live in with the exception of Food.......Petrol,Gas,House Tax,Road Tax,TV, is more expensive,but then you get paid more in the UK to counteract it.

I have never heard of ticking the box for a Job Application over the phone!

And as for the NHS it's not perfect but is still the finest in the world,considering it has a population of around 62 Million to cater for,and as the largest employer in Europe,employs in excess of 1 Million staff, yes there are waiting lists for treatment of non urgent cases,if it was an emergency operation situation,you would get treated immediately.

Comparing the two is like comparing apples and pears.

I wish you and your wife good luck and hope you can settle back in again soon.

Edited April 22, 201313 yr by MAJIC

Firstly presuming you have a Settlement Visa for your wife,what copious amounts of paperwork are you talking about? Normally there are no forms to fill out once your wife has a Visa,and you do not need to check in to Immigration or the Police for the whole 2 years and 3 months Visa,and it's normal to have no contact at all with the UKBA,would you prefer 30, 60, or 90 day check ins?

Copious amounts of paperwork! could you be more specific on the nature of the forms?

12 days to see your Doctor i've never heard of such a wait,normally if you want to see a specific Dr,and he is fully booked on any one day or on holiday,then you can see another Dr in the Practice,and on the same day. Our Doctors are dedicated to their job and some of the finest in the world,to state that they are penny pinching with prescriptions as if it was their own money,is disgraceful,they do not count the cost of patients health,and their patients health is paramount,and is their only concern,and BTW patients pay £7.80 for each prescription,whether it covers the cost or not.

Form filling: every Country has that,Driving Licence,Passports,Road Tax,Insurance,NI Card,Regulations, applications,CRB checks,Background checks etc etc.

Yes the UK is more expensive to live in with the exception of Food.......Petrol,Gas,House Tax,Road Tax,TV, is more expensive,but then you get paid more in the UK to counteract it.

I have never heard of ticking the box for a Job Application over the phone!

And as for the NHS it's not perfect but is still the finest in the world,considering it has a population of around 62 Million to cater for,and as the largest employer in Europe,employs in excess of 1 Million staff, yes there are waiting lists for treatment of non urgent cases,if it was an emergency operation situation,you would get treated immediately.

Comparing the two is like comparing apples and pears.

I wish you and your wife good luck and hope you can settle back in again soon.

PS. I thought long and hard about you're statement....."job application over the phone"....some things you can apply for over the phone,.....but I or no one I know of,has ever heard of jobs.

Edited April 22, 201313 yr by MAJIC

Good luck, doppa. It must be a big culture shock. Things always change, and not always for the best. My sister lives in England and she keeps me informed. This topic reminds me of of Winnie's topic of what Chiang Mai might be like 20 years from now.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Doppa,

My empathies for your relocation-dislocation, and the friction in adapting to it, and best wishes for the health and welfare of you, and your family.

Reading your update, I found myself thinking that I would also have major "reverse culture shock," if I were to return to "Corporate Occupied Mallburgerland" (USA); you and I have spent about the same number of years living in Amazing T ... for me, Chiang Mai is the only place I've resided.

Even after I spent only one year in India (on a scholarship, while in graduate school, thirty-eight years ago), I experienced a real dislocation when I came back to live in Berserkly, Kalkifornia. But, I wonder if: the first time a person spends a year in a culture very different from their own, there is not a greater degree of "dislocation" experienced, on returning home, than at any other time; that brings to mind Margaret Mead's statement (about young anthropologists) that: "someone who has lived one year outside their own culture is a changed instrument." (quoted from memory, may not be exactly correct).

If I went back, and wanted to live in some culturally-rich area ... since I speak of the USA, I probably need to qualify use of the word "culture" carefully: by "culture," I do not mean gun-shows, binge-drinking, right-wing militias based on conspiracy theories, demolition-derbys, sports events, stadium-rock shows, raves, drive-by shootings, auto-body and human-body extreme modification, cardiac-arrest diet, etc. I do mean: writers, literature, artists, great libraries, the performing arts, writers' groups, etc. ...

I think what would hit me hardest would be the fact that a "decent" place to stay in a culturally rich area would be four to six times what I pay here to rent a very nice house. Good grief: that means I might have to work for a living ... at least until the world wakes up and recognizes me for the great writer I am, and surfeits me with do$h ... and then, I think, that would result in some reduction of my Social Security benefits !

Poverty by choice as a consequence of living the way I wanted to live, my old friend, in my younger days, means nothing to me, but I would not want to have to walk from a dingy room in a neighborhood full of crack-dealers to wait for a bus to commute hours to some job, where I'd probably be lucky to be more than a "temp." Of course, that's a worst-case scenario: the reality is that I probably have the technical skills to get some kind of work which could be done primarily "from home."

Alas, I find myself more and more thinking of re-locating somewhere; it seems each year that the severe weather, from February to June, and the two or three months of air-pollution, is less, and less, bearable. Old age ?

chok dee, Khrup, ~o:37;

Poor doppa, poor orang37 . . . I wish you both all the best.

You started your relocation at the begining of winter and it's been a long one this year, my guess is that now that Spring has arrived (really it has) things might get better and your outlook will change. I went to the UK last month for ten days and it never got over 5 degrees, I spent the last three days in the hotel room wishing for my flight to get called three days early and I vowed in the midst of that misery never to return! But of course once summer arrives and everything turns green, the toubles of your first seven months will evaporate, how about you give us another updat in say September?

Good luck, it will get better, trust me.

Good to hear from you again Doppa. Hopefully, things will get better as the weather improves - rural Northumberland in the worst winter in 50 years, what a welcome!!!

UK is over regulated. Thailand is totally un-regulated. You should've stopped off in Cyprus on the way home to acclimatize

PS. I thought long and hard about you're statement....."job application over the phone"....some things you can apply for over the phone,.....but I or no one I know of,has ever heard of jobs.

You are misreading what he wrote. Which was,

and if your lucky enough to get a reply an, interview is initially a telephone call,

This is not uncommon & many HR departments in the USA also do it this way now.

Rather than interview 100 or more for a job they "Initially" do a phone pre interview

to see if you meet certain minimums

OP : Good Luck to you & your family

Edited April 23, 201313 yr by mania

The Toon not doing very well either,been beaten by the Mackhams !!! best say nowt.

All the negatives aside,at least you are living in the most beautiful area of England,

something to be grateful for.

Good luck regards Worgeordie

Doppa, good to hear from you, and that your lad is settling-in well.

As to the rest, well it doesn't much surprise me, my own six-monthly family-duty/shopping trips show me a country that simply isn't what it used to be, but where is ? One makes the best of whatever is.

One positive is the country-pubs, and real cider, also the relative splendour of a proper Tesco or Asda supermarket, compared with the range & availability & cost of what's (quite understandably) available here, the feeling of walking into a proper shop for the first time each trip is bedazzling. But of course it then needs to be paid-for !

For myself I know that I simply can't go back, whatever else happens, in my life. Fond memories are all that remain of the Old Days.

Good Luck, and hope to see you back here eventually, when life permits.

At least you can get plenty of Tetley Doppa ! Hope the fact that your Son has settled well will ease your pains in the old country.

Must say whenever I return I can't wait to leave again as my Mother Country is no longer the 'Land of Hope and Glory' I grew up in as a kid.

Best of luck to you and yours in the future.

Where abouts are you in Northumberland Doppa, a friend of mine just bought in Richmond which is a South of you I guess but he says it's stunningly beutiful there.

Just remember, Doppa, all those scowls you get in UK are genuine, unlike a lot of the smiles here

How's your hip doppa?

Chin up mate, the weather's probably got to you, summer will be better.

Nothing I did not already know and saw coming 28 years ago I will NEVER GO BACK, NEVER and this just makes me more determined.

dk

Several people I know who have gone back seem to be doing really well and are not regretting it, though I know I couldn't do it. Do miss the supermarkets and booze though.

Several people I know who have gone back seem to be doing really well and are not regretting it, though I know I couldn't do it. Do miss the supermarkets and booze though.

Funny enough, as sad as it is those are a couple of the things I miss the most.

What I have noticed is things get better year by year

When I first came here pre internet and advanced communication systems, you would have to go to the telephone exchange to phone folks and friends back home. Now with skype,emails, cheap communication is a big plus

I always missed listening to BBC radio 4 can now do that on my laptop ever day

I love to read and even though there are some great second hand bookshops here, I can now use a kindle to buy and read any book I want

British TV - I can download pretty much anything I want to watch or view on youtube or buy box sets of dvds up at mai sai on my visa runs

So yes booze and supermarkets, As a dog owner I was better catered for taking my dog for a long walk in local parks etc which is something I miss, Living in London and being near some of the best museums in the world was something as well that I would love my kids to have experienced.

But all the things about the UK that Doppa mention are reasons why I would prefer to stay in Chiang Mai

Having just spent 5 weeks in England-I can certainly agree that this ranks as one of the coldest 'Spring' starts to any year that I can remember.

The Economic climate in UK and neighbouring Europe does affect many aspects of life in these, once prosperous, countries. Many people are wary and suspicious of the inwards migration from poorer European members of the EEC-with fears for employment (and the lack of it )being a major concern.

Sadly, there are going to be many more years of social unease and inequality- but I fear that Thailand is not exempt from these concerns.

There are pros and cons to both countries with regard to choosing a compatible habitat.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Majic - my mam has had to wait more than a week for a doctors' appointment. When I've told her to kick up a fuss, she reminds me that there are only 2 doctors' surgeries in the village, and in England the other doctor has to agree to put you on to their list, so whatever you do don't p155 off the girl on reception. Last year, I was ready to take her to A&E as a way of getting her in to see somebody, but she couldn't have something like that put on her records (?). I'm still convinced my dad died after being diagnosed with the wrong disease in a rather off-hand manner, and as he lay dying, mam brought clean pyjama's for the man in the next bed who had no family and she cleaned up his vomit (her words 'the nurses really shouldn't have pretended not to notice, but they are busy you know and it wasn't nice sitting there for me so I couldn't just leave it and have that smell the last thing that dad remembered'). The NHS isn't doing so brilliantly, although I know it does good in some area's.

In relation to interviews, I've always phone interviews as a prelude to the real thing. No point wasting your time (and theirs) interviewing someone who can barely string two words together. The first contact is the main one as far as I'm concerned because you have caught the person off-guard. Every job I've been offered started with a phone call.

We left England in 1987 and it seems each year that we go back it seems to gets worse. Particularly scary (for me) is that young people aren't afraid of the police. Just the threat of 'I'm going to get the Bobby' was enough to put us in place for a good while, but now there is no respect for them at all.

i had to make an appointment on line to see my doctor, ringing is a premium rate number, made on the 15th appointment on the 25th. no call out casualty/ambulance for anything urgent.

yes a cold start to the year, roll on retirement

Edited April 23, 201313 yr by steve187

will update you all after summer,which if todays weather is anything to go by,we've slipped straight back into autumn of next year,although there is a promise of some decent weather on it's way.

good luck to you all.

All the best.

i had to make an appointment on line to see my doctor, ringing is a premium rate number, made on the 15th appointment on the 25th. no call out casualty/ambulance for anything urgent.

yes a cold start to the year, roll on retirement

You mean you can't dial 999 for an emergency ambulance crew?

PS. I thought long and hard about you're statement....."job application over the phone"....some things you can apply for over the phone,.....but I or no one I know of,has ever heard of jobs.

You are misreading what he wrote. Which was,

and if your lucky enough to get a reply an, interview is initially a telephone call,

This is not uncommon & many HR departments in the USA also do it this way now.

Rather than interview 100 or more for a job they "Initially" do a phone pre interview

to see if you meet certain minimums

OP : Good Luck to you & your family

I have not heard of this in the UK though!

i had to make an appointment on line to see my doctor, ringing is a premium rate number, made on the 15th appointment on the 25th. no call out casualty/ambulance for anything urgent.

yes a cold start to the year, roll on retirement

You mean you can't dial 999 for an emergency ambulance crew?

Of course you can!... more scare mongering.

i had to make an appointment on line to see my doctor, ringing is a premium rate number, made on the 15th appointment on the 25th. no call out casualty/ambulance for anything urgent.

yes a cold start to the year, roll on retirement

You mean you can't dial 999 for an emergency ambulance crew?

Of course you can!... more scare mongering.

And you can die waiting.......

regards Worgordie

i had to make an appointment on line to see my doctor, ringing is a premium rate number, made on the 15th appointment on the 25th. no call out casualty/ambulance for anything urgent.

yes a cold start to the year, roll on retirement

You mean you can't dial 999 for an emergency ambulance crew?

Of course you can!... more scare mongering.

And you can die waiting.......

regards Worgordie

I think I'd prefer waiting for a UK ambulance in an emergency than one here

i had to make an appointment on line to see my doctor, ringing is a premium rate number, made on the 15th appointment on the 25th. no call out casualty/ambulance for anything urgent.

yes a cold start to the year, roll on retirement

You mean you can't dial 999 for an emergency ambulance crew?

Of course you can!... more scare mongering.

And you can die waiting.......

regards Worgordie

Sometimes the patient is so seriously injured or sick,and dies before the Ambulance can get to the scene,so what's your point?

I think I'd prefer waiting for a UK ambulance in an emergency than one here

Even if it had to come over on the back of a tug.