Liverpool F.c.

[The Vulcan]

The world’s finest double act

Gerrard and Torres will (may deleted) prove too hot for Chelsea to handle on Wednesday

When Ian Rush joined Liverpool in 1980 he was a gauche teenager with a bum-fluff moustache who ..............................

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...icle6036254.ece

[The Vulcan]

Just watching the "Kop 10" and disagreed with some of the choices.

But it posed the question of who I think are/were our greatest

My choice:-

1 Gerrard

2 Fowler

3 Hansen

4 Rush

5 Dalglish

6 Owen

7 Carragher

8 Tommy Smith

9 Souness

10 Barnes

Who do you think?

[StevieH]

1. dalglish

2. barnes

3. rush

4. souness

5. gerrard

6. beardsley

7. hansen

8. mcdermott

9. fowler

10. keegan

i've got mates who are older though who would include likes of emlyn hughes, tommy smith, roger hunt etc. and older relatives who would probably include billy liddell, ron yeats and ian st john.

[redscouse]

1. Dalglish

2. Gerrard

3. Souness

4. Rush

5. Barnes

6. Fowler

7. Hughes

8. Hunt

9. Callaghan

10. Hansen

[LeungKen]

I'm surprised Billy Liddell doesn't get a mention and only Redscouse includes Roger Hunt, Ian St John should be in there somewhere as too should be Ray Clemence & Emlyn Hughes.

And Being a Manc why doesn't the late great Sir Matt Busby get a special inclusion

Anway more to the point here is the ulimate list :-

100 players who shook the Kop

Rank Name Years Position Goals Nationality

1 Kenny Dalglish 1977-1991 Forward 172 Scotland

2 Steven Gerrard 1998-present Midfield 64 England

3 Ian Rush 1980-1996 Forward 346 Wales

4 Robbie Fowler 1993-2007 Forward 177 England

5 John Barnes 1987-1997 Winger 110 England

6 Billy Liddell 1938-1960 Winger 229 Scotland

7 Jamie Carragher 1996-present Defender 4 England

8 Kevin Keegan 1971-1977 Forward 100 England

9 Graeme Souness 1978-1984 Midfield 56 Scotland

10 Emlyn Hughes 1967-1979 Midfield 49 England

11 Ray Clemence 1967-1981 Goalkeeper 0 England

12 Alan Hansen 1977-1991 Defender 14 Scotland

13 Roger Hunt 1959-1969 Forward 286 England

14 Michael Owen 1996-2004 Forward 158 England

15 Ian Callaghan 1960-1978 Winger 68 England

16 Jan Mølby 1984-1996 Midfield 62 Denmark

17 Bruce Grobbelaar 1981-1994 Goalkeeper 0 Zimbabwe

18 David Fairclough 1974-1983 Forward 55 England

19 Peter Beardsley 1987-1991 Forward 59 England

20 Phil Neal 1974-1985 Full-Back 60 England

21 Ian St. John 1961-1971 Forward 118 Scotland

22 Steve McManaman 1989-1999 Winger 66 England

23 Steve Heighway 1970-1981 Winger 76 Ireland

24 John Arne Riise 2001-present Defender 26 Norway

25 Tommy Smith 1960-1978 Defender 48 England

26 John Aldridge 1987-1989 Forward 63 Ireland

27 Phil Thompson 1971-1985 Defender 13 England

28 Ray Kennedy 1974-1982 Midfield 72 England

29 Ron Yeats 1961-1971 Defender 16 Scotland

30 Ronnie Whelan 1979-1994 Midfield 73 Ireland

31 Alan Kennedy 1978-1985 Left-Back 21 England

32 Gary McAllister 2000-2002 Midfield 10 Scotland

33 Xabi Alonso 2004-present Midfield 8 Spain

34 John Toshack 1970-1978 Forward 96 Wales

35 Mark Lawrenson 1981-1988 Defender 18 Ireland

36 Jerzy Dudek 2001-2007 Goalkeeper 0 Poland

37 Terry McDermott 1974-1982 Midfield 81 England

38 Sami Hyypiä 1999-present Defender 26 Finland

39 Steve Nicol 1981-1995 Defender 46 Scotland

40 Jamie Redknapp 1991-2002 Midfield 41 England

41 Elisha Scott 1912-1934 Goalkeeper 0 Northern Ireland

42 Steve McMahon 1985-1991 Midfield 50 England

43 Luis García 2004-2007 Midfielder 24 Spain

44 Dietmar Hamann 1999-2006 Midfield 11 Germany

45 Jimmy Case 1973-1981 Midfield 46 England

46 Gerry Byrne 1957-1969 Full-Back 5 England

47 Sammy Lee 1977-1986 Midfield 19 England

48 Peter Thompson 1963-1974 Winger 54 England

49 Alex Raisbeck 1898-1909 Centre-Back 21 Scotland

50 Albert Stubbins 1946-1953 Forward 83 England

51 Chris Lawler 1963-1976 Right-Back 61 England

52 Ray Houghton 1987-1992 Midfield 38 Ireland

53 Markus Babbel 2000-2004 Defender 6 Germany

54 Gordon Hodgson 1926-1936 Forward 240 England

55 Steve Finnan 2003-present Right Back 1 Ireland

56 Bob Paisley 1939-1954 Defender 13 England

57 Stan Collymore 1995-1997 Forward 35 England

58 Stéphane Henchoz 1999-2005 Defender 0 Switzerland

59 Craig Johnston 1981-1988 Midfielder 40 Australia

60 Rob Jones 1991-1999 Right-Back 0 England

61 Pepe Reina 2005-present Goalkeeper 0 Spain

62 Danny Murphy 1997-2004 Midfield 44 England

63 Joey Jones 1975-1978 Left-Back 3 Wales

64 Vladimír Šmicer 1999-2005 Midfielder 19 Czech Republic

65 Mark Wright 1991-1998 Defender 7 England

66 Matt Busby 1936-1945 Wing-Half 3 Scotland

67 Djibril Cissé 2004-2007 Forward 24 France

68 Gary Gillespie 1983-1991 Defender 16 Scotland

69 Jari Litmanen 2001-2002 Forward 9 Finland

70 Ronnie Moran 1952-1969 Full-Back 16 England

71 Paul Walsh 1984-1988 Forward 37 England

72 Ephraim Longworth 1910-1928 Full-Back 0 England

73 Peter Crouch 2005-present Forward 13 England

74 Jack Balmer 1935-1952 Forward 111 England

75 Brian Hall 1968-1976 Midfield 21 England

76 Ronny Rosenthal 1990-1993 Forward 22 Israel

77 David Johnson 1976-1982 Forward 78 England

78 Sam Raybould 1900-1907 Forward 128 England

79 Patrik Berger 1996-2003 Midfield 35 Czech Republic

80 Tommy Lawrence 1957-1971 Goalkeeper 0 Scotland

81 Alan A'Court 1952-1964 Outside-Left 63 England

82 Phil Taylor 1936-1954 Defender 34 England

83 Michael Thomas 1991-1998 Midfield 12 England

84 Howard Gayle 1977-1983 Winger 1 England

85 Alec Lindsay 1969-1977 Left-Back 8 England

86 Nick Barmby 2000-2002 Midfielder 8 England

87 Alun Evans 1968-1972 Forward 33 England

88 Mark Walters 1991-1995 Winger 19 England

89 Donald McKinlay 1910-1929 Defender 34 Scotland

90 Neil Mellor 2003-2006 Forward 6 England

91 Titi Camara 1999-2000 Forward 10 Guinea

92 Harry Chambers 1915-1928 Forward 151 England

93 Momo Sissoko 2005-present Midfield 0 Mali

94 Sam Hardy 1905-1912 Goalkeeper 0 England

95 Geoff Strong 1964-1970 Utility 32 England

96 Nicolas Anelka 2001-2002 Forward 5 France

97 Nigel Clough 1993-1995 Midfield 9 England

98 Tom Bromilow 1919-1930 Left Half 11 England

99 Erik Meijer 1999-2000 Forward 2 Netherlands

100 John Wark 1984-1988 Midfield 42 Scotland

..

Edited April 6, 2009 by LeungKen

[StevieH]

I'm surprised Billy Liddell doesn't get a mention and only Redscouse includes Roger Hunt, Ian St John should be in there somewhere as too should be Ray Clemence & Emlyn Hughes.

i can only list those i've watched in my lifetime ken, pointless me including liddell or any of the 60s players as i never saw them. i know arl <deleted> in their 60s and 70s though who wouldn't dream of a top ten without liddell and emlyn.

FWIW i saw a few years of clem and i now rate reina higher than him. reina's the best goalkeeper we've ever had.

[redscouse]

I disagree with the reina shout steve, undoubtedly a great keeper but not as good as either clemence or grobbelaar, just my personal opinion and he wont get near either until he gets near either of their trophy hauls.

I never saw liddell play and I have not seen enough footage to judge him, I have seen enough footage of Hunt and of course spoke with people who remember him. A lot of these polls are to do with the age of the voters, I would imagine vulcan is a nipper if he has the king at number 5.

its always hard to name a top ten, i assume the votes for the top 10 was just to name one player which is easy, the king, liverpool have been blessed with so much quality over the years which makes it hard to choose just 10, I could go on for hours talking about the quality I saw as a youngster and a teen and in my 20's, even now we show glimpses and have a couple of world class players

Edited April 6, 2009 by redscouse

[StevieH]

yeah mate, when i think of the players i had to leave out of my 10 who i've loved watching, likes of whelan, ray kennedy, phil thompson, lawrenson, mcmanaman, steve nicol, aldridge, owen, hamann, hyypia plus personal / cult favourites like litmanen and gary mcallister it brings home how lucky we've been.

i put reina only slightly ahead of clem because of his all-round ability and clean sheet records but streets ahead of brucie. grobelaar played behind some amazing defences and was still prone to some shocking cockups.

[Devil]

My top 10 that I actually saw and that were my favorites are:

(no particular order)

Molby

Barnes

Gerrard

Fowler

Redknapp

Rush

Dalglish

Carragher

McManaman

Collymore (this one will be controversial)

[StevieH]

i know it's personal choice devil mate but i'd have paul stewart in there ahead of collymore. and i fuc_king hated paul stewart.

[MSingh]

i know it's personal choice devil mate but i'd have paul stewart in there ahead of collymore. and i fuc_king hated paul stewart.

Paul Stewart fitted in lovely on Merseyside with his Hair in the 90's...

[StevieH]

i know it's personal choice devil mate but i'd have paul stewart in there ahead of collymore. and i fuc_king hated paul stewart.

Paul Stewart fitted in lovely on Merseyside with his Hair in the 90's...

he was perfect for the spice boy era. more concerned with his image and reputation than he was with being a good professional footballer. i look back on that period and cringe.

[Devil]

i know it's personal choice devil mate but i'd have paul stewart in there ahead of collymore. and i fuc_king hated paul stewart.

Fair enough Stevie, tons of LFC fans would agree with you also about him, I know the whole of Newcastle hated him after the famous game.

My reason for him being one of my top 10's is, I never forget his impact in his first season when we signed him at a record fee. Some of his goals were just awesome and they were some great memories for me at that time. I hadn't seen to many players who were that strong, fast and could shoot with both feet the way he did. Such as waste of pure natural talent though.

[Jimjim]

"Five times did Liverpool advance upon the armies of Craven Cottage, and five times did the woodwork deny them. And upon the dying minutes the Liverpool faith didst turn their eyes to the dugout and cry: 'Manager, who shall deliver us from the Valley of the Shadow of Draws?'

etc....

- The Book of Yossi, Verse 92:1.

Interesting choice of theme considering Yossi's origins. But yes, I love Yossi too and was befuddled when someone on here said a while back they thought he wasn't good enough. He's a playmaker and a game changer.

[The Vulcan]

I disagree with the reina shout steve, undoubtedly a great keeper but not as good as either clemence or grobbelaar, just my personal opinion and he wont get near either until he gets near either of their trophy hauls.

I never saw liddell play and I have not seen enough footage to judge him, I have seen enough footage of Hunt and of course spoke with people who remember him. A lot of these polls are to do with the age of the voters, I would imagine vulcan is a nipper if he has the king at number 5.

its always hard to name a top ten, i assume the votes for the top 10 was just to name one player which is easy, the king, liverpool have been blessed with so much quality over the years which makes it hard to choose just 10, I could go on for hours talking about the quality I saw as a youngster and a teen and in my 20's, even now we show glimpses and have a couple of world class players

I wish the Vulcan was a nipper!

Clue - Bus pass in 18 months

But yea, Dalglish at 5 was an error - adjusted to 2 (I still think Stevie G is THE ONE)

As everybody says, picking 50 would be easy, picking 10 is difficult because of those you have to leave out

[StevieH]

david pleat on the tactical battles.

Chelsea must stop Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/...hampions-league

Guus Hiddink should consider man-marking Steven Gerrard to stifle his dangerous link play with Fernando Torres

Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres are outstanding individuals who play with a telepathic understanding, unselfishly working in tandem and each seizing on the other's considerable qualities. Against Torres, who will often receive the ball with his back to goal, you need a strong marker. Whoever is designated to combat the Spaniard must ensure he does not get too tight or allow the forward to come off, turn and face up in possession of the ball.

In this role Torres rarely takes the centre-back to the touchlines but he will attempt to draw his marker towards midfield if he is not receiving a decent supply-line up front. John Terry has played against him many times and will not get sucked deep or too wide. But what you must watch out for is Torres's brilliant movement in the box – start, stop, start – as he turns half chances into goal attempts.

Gerrard, as a second striker, is arguably the more difficult to track. He will drift quietly towards the play and free himself to receive. He has everything in his locker: the surge, the pass, the positioning and the shot. He is so influential and orchestrates all Liverpool's forward movements with his dynamic play. These are the players Chelsea must nullify if they are to emerge intact and confident from Anfield this evening: stop the pair and they will have won half the battle.

It may be advisable for Guus Hiddink, in this first game where his side must keep it tight, to lock the back door by creating a two-versus-one – Terry and Alex against Torres. Yet Gerrard demands attention. I recall as manager of Sheffield Wednesday, back in 1996-97, designating Peter Atherton – a limited passer but a disciplined marker – to stay tight on Gianfranco Zola and Steve McManaman against Chelsea and Liverpool. He was told never to leave his opponent's side. Zola's touches distinguished every Chelsea move, while McManaman glided over the turf, running brilliantly with the ball. The tactic succeeded: we secured a 2-2 draw at Stamford Bridge (coming back from 2-0 down) and a 1-1 stalemate against Liverpool on the season's final day. Indeed, we were denied a league double against Roy Evans's side only by a late equaliser at Hillsborough.

Chelsea will need to stifle Liverpool's modern-day inspiration. They may pine for Claude Makelele but the Frenchman may not have been suited to combat Gerrard as he always liked to stay central. Michael Essien can do this job, but the visitors would lose the benefit of his energy going forward. That leaves Mikel John Obi, who would compete physically and allow Essien, Frank Lampard and Michael Ballack to make the play in what would end up, in effect, as a three-versus-two in centre midfield.

Mikel's task, in theory, would be simple: to track Gerrard without making an attempt to join in the play. He must concentrate solely on competing immediately with Gerrard whenever the Liverpool captain receives possession or stopping the ball getting to his feet altogether. Bear in mind that Gerrard, to try to release himself, could go anywhere and everywhere.

It is said that once, when this tactic was tried on Johan Cruyff, the Dutch master ran off the field during the game to go to the toilet and his marker dutifully followed him. Mikel has to be that focused. I confidently expect Hiddink will consider this stifling tactic as he attempts to suffocate Liverpool's threat and give Chelsea a big second-leg opportunity.

[Devil]

david pleat on the tactical battles.

Chelsea must stop Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/...hampions-league

Guus Hiddink should consider man-marking Steven Gerrard to stifle his dangerous link play with Fernando Torres

Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres are outstanding individuals who play with a telepathic understanding, unselfishly working in tandem and each seizing on the other's considerable qualities. Against Torres, who will often receive the ball with his back to goal, you need a strong marker. Whoever is designated to combat the Spaniard must ensure he does not get too tight or allow the forward to come off, turn and face up in possession of the ball.

In this role Torres rarely takes the centre-back to the touchlines but he will attempt to draw his marker towards midfield if he is not receiving a decent supply-line up front. John Terry has played against him many times and will not get sucked deep or too wide. But what you must watch out for is Torres's brilliant movement in the box – start, stop, start – as he turns half chances into goal attempts.

Gerrard, as a second striker, is arguably the more difficult to track. He will drift quietly towards the play and free himself to receive. He has everything in his locker: the surge, the pass, the positioning and the shot. He is so influential and orchestrates all Liverpool's forward movements with his dynamic play. These are the players Chelsea must nullify if they are to emerge intact and confident from Anfield this evening: stop the pair and they will have won half the battle.

It may be advisable for Guus Hiddink, in this first game where his side must keep it tight, to lock the back door by creating a two-versus-one – Terry and Alex against Torres. Yet Gerrard demands attention. I recall as manager of Sheffield Wednesday, back in 1996-97, designating Peter Atherton – a limited passer but a disciplined marker – to stay tight on Gianfranco Zola and Steve McManaman against Chelsea and Liverpool. He was told never to leave his opponent's side. Zola's touches distinguished every Chelsea move, while McManaman glided over the turf, running brilliantly with the ball. The tactic succeeded: we secured a 2-2 draw at Stamford Bridge (coming back from 2-0 down) and a 1-1 stalemate against Liverpool on the season's final day. Indeed, we were denied a league double against Roy Evans's side only by a late equaliser at Hillsborough.

Chelsea will need to stifle Liverpool's modern-day inspiration. They may pine for Claude Makelele but the Frenchman may not have been suited to combat Gerrard as he always liked to stay central. Michael Essien can do this job, but the visitors would lose the benefit of his energy going forward. That leaves Mikel John Obi, who would compete physically and allow Essien, Frank Lampard and Michael Ballack to make the play in what would end up, in effect, as a three-versus-two in centre midfield.

Mikel's task, in theory, would be simple: to track Gerrard without making an attempt to join in the play. He must concentrate solely on competing immediately with Gerrard whenever the Liverpool captain receives possession or stopping the ball getting to his feet altogether. Bear in mind that Gerrard, to try to release himself, could go anywhere and everywhere.

It is said that once, when this tactic was tried on Johan Cruyff, the Dutch master ran off the field during the game to go to the toilet and his marker dutifully followed him. Mikel has to be that focused. I confidently expect Hiddink will consider this stifling tactic as he attempts to suffocate Liverpool's threat and give Chelsea a big second-leg opportunity.

Ha like the Johan Cruyff story

I was just reading that article before you posted it also. It will interesting to see if Chelsea can contain both Gerrard and Torres tonight at Anfield...the way they have both been playing of late I don't think anyone can stop them both. And I am happy to say we look like we have goals from some of the other squad players also who have stepped up of late... Not saying it will be easy but I don't think it will be as tight as most are saying. Early goal me thinks? hopes

[Devil]

Beaten by the better side tonight! cant believe our defending on both corners? and we were matched in all positions tonight. Yet again Drogba has a blinder against us in the CL.

Big ask for the second leg and will take a massive performance, Terry will miss it that's one thing.

[sanmiguel]

Always next year.

[bkkjames]

Hey stevie, what was all that wobble wobble wobble trash talk in the UTD thread yesterday?

As they say in Thailand, som nom na.

[Jimjim]

Write him a PM, we don't really care what you have to say...In fact, I won't be seeing your posts anymore, bkkjames, as I'm going to block you. Nothing personal, just annoying and dull to read your posts in this thread. As for StevieH posting in other threads, well, I'm not him so I don't give a rat's arse.

To those who want to talk about Liverpool F.C., I disagree with BBC writer McNulty's classification of "...Liverpool's familiar Achilles heel, wretched marking at corners..."

Hmmm, is that so, Phil? It sure makes you look good when it happened twice in one match, did it? Stats, please, otherwise it's just frivolous writing. I figure most LFC fans don't care what the BBC has to say, though.

Well, for three years straight we had Chelsea's number in Champions League play, and it now appears they have ours. Guess we'll have to see next year, when we face them again.

The match started so well and I was quite ecstatic. Horrible defending, though, yes. Quite mind-boggling, really. I can't see Aurelio playing next match after his performance. Wouldn't be surprised to see Insua start Saturday. Well, I can always hope for a dramatic comeback but barring that, all that's left to play for is the league, and with that we need help. Looking for a response on the weekend, and looking for it to be at least entertaining until Tottenham comes to Anfield.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Jimjim

[bkkjames]

Write him a PM, we don't really care what you have to say...In fact, I won't be seeing your posts anymore, bkkjames, as I'm going to block you. Nothing personal, just annoying and dull to read your posts in this thread. As for StevieH posting in other threads, well, I'm not him so I don't give a rat's arse.

To those who want to talk about Liverpool F.C., I disagree with BBC writer McNulty's classification of "...Liverpool's familiar Achilles heel, wretched marking at corners..."

Hmmm, is that so, Phil? It sure makes you look good when it happened twice in one match, did it? Stats, please, otherwise it's just frivolous writing. I figure most LFC fans don't care what the BBC has to say, though.

Well, for three years straight we had Chelsea's number in Champions League play, and it now appears they have ours. Guess we'll have to see next year, when we face them again.

The match started so well and I was quite ecstatic. Horrible defending, though, yes. Quite mind-boggling, really. I can't see Aurelio playing next match after his performance. Wouldn't be surprised to see Insua start Saturday. Well, I can always hope for a dramatic comeback but barring that, all that's left to play for is the league, and with that we need help. Looking for a response on the weekend, and looking for it to be at least entertaining until Tottenham comes to Anfield.

You gonna block me JJ why don't get your mom to write a letter to Jstar first?

Regarding football, I did mention to watch out for Chelsea as you (like us) used up alot in our last Premier League games while Chelsea were able to get rested.

Didn't see the game but I hear Essien did a job on Stevie G?

[Jimjim]

Ah, how nice. All I see now is this:

"

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: bkkjames.

· View this post

· Un-ignore bkkjames

"

Have a nice life, mate.

[bkkjames]

haha, you would think after 18 years of failure Jim Jim would be used it. Poor loser.

[MSingh]

Ah, how nice. All I see now is this:

"

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: bkkjames.

· View this post

· Un-ignore bkkjames

"

Have a nice life, mate.

Grown Man ??

Pathetic...

[oldgit]

Great result for us but a bizarre game.After Torre's goal,I expected Liverpool to keep the pressure up but they sat back instead and gave us the freedom to attack.Was that our dominance or was it an instruction from the bench? Whatever it was,none of the main men for Liverpool couldn't get going after that.Loads of misplaced passes and schoolboy errors.Dossena typified your night when he came on!

[Jimjim]

Me too, oldgit, it wasn't a typical Liverpool performance after going up by one goal at Anfield, was it?

[samuibeachcomber]

chelsea did a number on them.closing down gerrard,pushing lampard up stopped alonso,no one left to feed torres.Hiddink did a job on rafa.

It was one of the best matches i have seen,not impossible for liverpool to come back.Its chelsea's to lose.

[oldgit]

Me too, oldgit, it wasn't a typical Liverpool performance after going up by one goal at Anfield, was it?

When the first goal went in I was thinking that we'd take 1-0 now to take back to the Bridge.Gerrard never got going because of Essien's attentions,Kuyt,Alonso,Riera all disappeared. Torres was always a danger,though.

[JacknDanny]

haha, you would think after 18 years of failure Jim Jim would be used it. Poor loser.

Grow up James.

I see his point. I am all into a bit of banter, but you become boorish.

I do not have a problem with MU fans (rixalex and mr toad come to mind) if they are able to take it as well as give it, without the childish nonsense that you seem to come out with.

I made genuine allowances, as I know you are not English and may not be on the same wavelength when it comes to humour, but you are overstepping the mark, my friend.

Back on topic

I truly believe that United have hit a wobbly patch, and up until last night, I really believed that Liverpool would win the title. I think Utd wil struggle to get positive results from their last 6 games.

Last night Liverpool were disappointing, and it will be interesting to see how they react.

Gerard played as though he was carrying an injury, and how poor a player is Lucas???????????

The only good thing from my own personal point of view, is that having backed Barcelona earlier in the year, I think that Chelsea will make easier opponents than Liverpool

Mentally, it might be easier for Liverpool to now concentrate on the title, as it is their only realistic chance.

Utd will still feel they have a chance in the Champions League(misguided, though that might be) and so for the neutral I think it will make for an interesting run in, with I believe Liverpool prevailing by 1 or 2 points