Mandatory Health Ins.-The Latest?

[amykat]

Quote function not working worth a flip so heres' a quote from Gsxrnz

"I think I'll leave this thread alone - just wanted to give some general advice but ended up defending my foresightedness - life's a bummer ain't it. Cheers "

Probably wouldn't have had to defend it so vigorously if your "general advice" wasn't "Make a lot of money so you can afford to be triple covered so even if the first and second layers don't come through, you're still alright (Jack)"

Or, to boil it down to a very common analogy, "Why don't them homeless people just buy homes????"

yawn.

I think most of you are only thinking about yourselves or others, getting sick/needing insurance, as a retiree, an older person. Some of us, get sick while young. Some of use get chronic illnesses, or disabilities, before we are old enough to understand how all these things work, before we have earned any significant money in life, etc. I had my first dance with serious illness when I was just in my 20s and in graduate school. I have paid a significant amount of money on health care costs, every single month, since then, which amounts to over 20 years now. A cost that is surely more than any of you have paid for all your multiple insurances. (Above and beyond the cost of medical insurance.) I have had my work and school disrupted, in significant ways.

I could only get medical insurance while employed or in school, yet I could not always be employed ...but always did have some insurance. (People sort of hate to employ sick people who miss a lot of work for some odd reason.) But I have been screwed around by insurance companies in so many ways, that I have very little faith in them, and especially in a country like Thailand, which is so much worse with consumer protection issues than my country.

I tried numerous times, to get various kinds of "extra" insurance, like private disability, and could not get it, for ANY reason, because of my illness. I could not get it for things clearly not related, like if my leg got cut off somehow, even when I asked to have things related to my illness left off. Even when I owned my own business, I could not share in all the various insurances that my business partners could get.

When you have a serious illness, it sucks up a lot of money (depending on your country I guess ..had I been French or British, I think I would have had a much better life.) It sucks up your energy, your time, your friends, lovers and others ...tend to go on their own way ...along with your jobs. Thailand has been a sort of solution for me, but it isn't a good one in many ways. I would like to be able to go to support groups, be around other people I have something in common with, see my family, and enjoy many things that I miss about my own country. I would love to drive down a safe road, where everyone drives in straight lines and doesn't make me have either an anxiety or anger attack. However, I am grateful that this has been some sort of solution for me, and I have been actively saving money each year here, many multiples of what I live off of, so that someday, I hope I can return to my country, or some place I like better than Thailand.

I haven't gotten insurance here, because I feel sure they will not pay. I have assets, so am not too worried that I won't be able to pay for myself, other than if I got some hugely expensive problem, it will dent my savings of course. That is never good, but I feel secure that I can pay for anything that might happen to me here.

I don't feel either that Thailand owes me some way to have insurance or super cheap healthcare, and would worry if I was forced to get some kind of insurance, that it would just be wasted money.

But for some of you who seem to feel very smug, like the poster above, please try to remember that some of us, don't come from countries with national insurance or medical schemes, and that some of us have pre-existing conditions that limit our entire lives in so many ways, from a young age. And try to imagine if you had your work disrupted by illness, maybe your entire adult life, and then you were forced to "retire" before 40, and not getting any government benefits, how well would you be doing?

I thought I qualified for disability payments, if I ever needed them, since I got government reports sent to me saying I had worked long enough to quality for full benefits, but didn't feel poor enough to want to try to get it, (and as well believed I would be getting better "soon"), blah, blah, and then after coming to Thailand, and not working for some period, and also getting a different (correct diagnosis about what was actually my problem) now I know that I probably can never return to fulltime work.

But since I have lived here, I found out that if you haven't worked for 5 years, you lose your benefits for some unknown reason. You work a certain amount of time to earn them, but if you are stupid enough to try to support yourself, as I was, you lose them ...my reports never mentioned that. So I have to go back to my country and work for a full 5 years before I can get them back. Yeah for me!

Amyway, I am doing better than most people I think. I get by with the health services here, although I think I would get better care in my own country as I have one condition which is pretty rare, like 3-4 out of 100,000 people get this disease, so there aren't a lot of specialists, anywhere in the world, and esp, not in Thailand. I have more than one problem as well. But, however as I said, I have been saving a good amount of money each year, and hope at the worst, that I can "retire" back in my own country at the appropriate age, but hopefully before.

But please try not to feel so smug about your own situation and "foresight". While I appreciate people who think like you do, I am one of those people too, but things don't work out the same for everyone, no matter how responsible you think you are.

[cheeryble]

Best of luck to you Amykat

[nietzche]

1. It should be mandatory.

2. Under no circumstances should they extend the 30 baht scheme to farangs.

It's a scheme for the Thai working class and poor, not a scheme to assist farangs in lifestyle decisions.

I think it's ridiculous.......RIDICULOUS!......that anyone in all conscience would try to use up the few precious resources available to the Thai poor.

Just in case your confused, I think it's ridiculous.

Just so you know.

I suppose I better go put my flame proof suit on now. Oh well.

I have private health insurance which covers emergency room visits.

Aside from that If I'm sick I just go to the Pharmacy. They all really wanted to be doctors anyway, but couldn't get into med school, so they're happy to play the doctor for a day.

For annual check-ups I go back to the U.S.

[Keesters]

Why would Thailand want to extend a tax payer funded, subsidized healthcare plan to farang?

Perhaps because the aforementioned farangs are also tax payers, probably at a much higher level than those those that it seeks to support...! When I lived in Taiwan, the system was open to all, essentially because everyone (nationals or otherwise) were required to pay taxes on all of their earnings.

Just to point out that all foreigners that have ever worked (and paid income tax) in Thailand joined the 300-500bht/month private health scheme already in operation. Once you have joined you can keep paying the premiums after your employment has ended. So the suggested scheme is pointless and already in operation at half the cost.

I'm always amazed at the general levels of ignorance amongst many foreigners living in Thailand.

I don't think that it applies to those of us who gave up working and paying income tax in Thailand 30 years ago as I did.

I'm always amazed at the general levels of know it all amongst many foreigners living in Thailand.

[apetley]

1. It should be mandatory.

2. Under no circumstances should they extend the 30 baht scheme to farangs.

It's a scheme for the Thai working class and poor, not a scheme to assist farangs in lifestyle decisions.

I think it's ridiculous.......RIDICULOUS!......that anyone in all conscience would try to use up the few precious resources available to the Thai poor.

Just in case your confused, I think it's ridiculous.

Just so you know.

I suppose I better go put my flame proof suit on now. Oh well.

Here's one farang enrolled in the 30bht scheme. Used it once when I had a bad foot injury and couldn't make it to my normal private hospital.

[Keesters]

It would be extremely easy. Just add the cost of insurance to the airport fees and have the airlines collect it for you. Collect the fees at immigration at any land crossing. There would be no need to check everyone's documents if everyone was required to have the same government mandated policy. If you want better care than you'd get at a government facility, your own insurance or back pocket would be called into play.

"Easy" doesn't mean it's a good idea (though I think it is), but it would be easy to implement at 100% participation.

Still haven't figured out this new quoting process, using Chrome. I'm replying to this quote below.

"ROFLMAO. Can you just imagine? Immigration officers all over the world having to check every arriving passenger from every country in the world now not only for passport/visa, but for - wait for it - "health insurance"? Yeah. Brilliant. "Oh, I'm sorry sir, we don't accept that card."

You can't make this stuff up!

They could call it an "airport tax"

Look at the fine print on an airplane ticket today and see how many different taxes you're already paying. One more would be eezy peezy.

Not disagreeing with you but your scheme would not cover me as someone (farang) who hasn't bought an airplane ticket in over two years and probably never will again. How do I get into this compulsory insurance scheme?

[Keesters]

If Thai nationals need medical treatment in the UK they get it for free. The British taxpayer has to pay the cost into the National health service.So, why cannot I as a British citizen get free medical treatment in Thailand? It isnt fair. Another example of how the British government does not stick up for its own people.

Because the majority of Thais don't pay tax, when was the last time you saw a bar girl or farm worker filling out a tax return?

Taxation comes in many forms not just income. Pretty sure that the bar girls and farm workers you're referring to pay VAT which is a tax. Some of the goods they buy may have been imported and subjected to import duties (tax). The companies they buy from all pay tax on the profit of the goods purchased by the bar girl/farm worker. Every time you hand over money there is tax involved. Hand money over to the companion who shared your bed last night. That money will get taxed so many times as it disappears in paying for room rent, food, lipstick etc. Every single Thai pays tax because they all spend money. And every single farang pays tax as well as they too spend. Don't know the figures but I'd guess that Thailand's tax derived from income alone is just a drop in the whole tax bucket.

[Keesters]

^^ First of all, it's Mr theblether.

Okay, many of the older British members of the forum will remember the founding on the National Health Service, it was a monumental day for British society.

For all the faults allocated against the Dubai Dodger, he will go down in history in Thailand for introducing the 30 baht scheme. Bringing healthcare to the poor should be celebrated.

These are two monumental achievements.

Right........

My point is, and I will not stand down from it, the Thai public health service is underfunded, and the poor that use it, grateful as they are to have it at all, have no choice but to take what they get.

Then swan in a contingent of farangs who think, happy days, cheap healthcare!! All the more Leo's for me!

That's not on......it's our decision to be here so therefore we must make adequate provision for our healthcare needs without turning to a service that is underfunded, and where the clients are already being forced to wait for hours every day to see Doctors.

.......................................................................

Now a second point, I do have empathy for people who have made their homes, their lives in Thailand with their Thai families. I am of the opinion that the current Thai government policies are cruel and destructive to family life. A natural part of family life is the ageing process and so it would be particularly cruel to cause family dislocation when a farang elder falls into poor health.

So here's theblethers very clever solution to this conundrum........

Insist that all farangs of a working age have private medical insurance, who could argue with that huh?

Then bring in a variation of the Thai Elite card where the farang could pay an annual premium, ( let's say 10,000 baht ) over a minimum qualifying period ( let's say 10 years ), and once the farang hit's an agreed retirement age ( let's say 65 ) he can then get access to the 30 baht scheme. On top of that he should be excused the requirements of 90 day reporting etc as he has shown a track record of living in and contributing to Thailand.

I think that would be a fair compromise..........and to me there is a big difference between people who have lived and worked / raised families in Thailand, and those who have chosen Thailand as a retirement destination. The former should absolutely be recognized for their commitment and contribution to the country, the latter should be held to a different standard.

That's my thoughts anyway, I'll gibe Yingluck a call later and tell her to get on with it.

underfunded...that's not my problem. I fund it as much as the next man. I pay taxes, VAT, property tax, road tax, etc. Far more than the average Thai. Why shouldn't I be allowed to use it? I pay for it all except for the 30baht card thing which I'd willingly hand over.

[cheeryble]

Here's one farang enrolled in the 30bht scheme.

I have a yellow book Apetley and have also paid a fair bit of indirect tax.

It seems I can be enrolled in the 30 baht scheme?

I am wondering under what circumstances one might use this public health service.

Any thoughts?

Is it worth enrolling?

I don't want to take resources from those less fortunate but would like to know about this as a backstop.

Suppose for example I got a catastrophically expensive illness and had done all my funds and preferred to take second class treatment so my family could have something left after I'm gone?

ps my wife's friend had extended chemo treatment but wife says she had a level up....."social insurance".....same as my wife which requires a monthly contribution of a few hundred baht and involves money repayment in later life. In fact the friend, with lymphoma, was sent to a private hospital with the govt footing the very large bill. Wonderful actually, though sadly unsuccessful terrible shame for someone not much over 30.

Edited May 2, 2013 by cheeryble

[apetley]

Here's one farang enrolled in the 30bht scheme.

I have a yellow book Apetley and have also paid a fair bit of indirect tax.

It seems I can be enrolled in the 30 baht scheme?

I am wondering under what circumstances one might use this public health service.

Any thoughts?

Is it worth enrolling?

ps my wife's friend had extended chemo treatment but wife says she had a level up....."social insurance".....same my wife which requires a monthly contribution of a few hundred baht and involves money repayment in later life. In fact the friend, with lymphoma, was sent to a private hospital with the govt footing the very large bill. Wonderful actually, though sadly unsuccessful terrible shame for someone not much over 30.

Hi. I was enrolled automatically when I applied for the Yellow House Book. The card was delivered to my house one day. I had no idea what it was to be honest until wifey explained to be.

The number on the card is the same as the one in the Yellow Book.

I used it when I somehow managed to get a metal spike through my ankle. I tried to drive to my usual private hospital but was nearly passing out with the pain so turned into a small govt hopital on the route.

Nobody else was in the emergency room so my ankle was xrayed immediately, I was administered pain killing and tetanus injectiins and stitched up.

I handed them my card fulling expecting to pay for the 'consumables' but any payment was refused.

To be honest I was really surprised and pleased with the help I got.

[cheeryble]

thankyou for that i shall ask missus.

About foot spike we had a guy working in Alaska who shot a 4 inch nail through his foot with a nail gun. He was a nice guy ran a small team and came from the Russias, and was a part time preacher apparently. We had to fly him all the way to Anchorage and call it end of season for him.

Foot things are very painful indeed I once passed someone fast on horseback during a practice game and his stirrup clipped my foot. It felt like half my foot had come off, and I was gratified when I learned it was merely a nice break and twist to a toe bone. Only needed a "buddy" sticky tape. (also drove to hospital haha!) That was the last time i ever wore rubber boots instead of leather.

Long live the National Health System.

Edited May 2, 2013 by cheeryble

[impulse]

Look at the fine print on an airplane ticket today and see how many different taxes you're already paying. One more would be eezy peezy.

Not disagreeing with you but your scheme would not cover me as someone (farang) who hasn't bought an airplane ticket in over two years and probably never will again. How do I get into this compulsory insurance scheme?

You either do 90 day reports or visa runs? Next time you report (90 days), you pay for 90 days of insurance. If you fly in, you pay 30 days each time, if you enter by land, you pay for 15 days (or whatever your country's citizens are allowed).

The mechanics of collecting the money is not an issue, There are many possible ways. Heck, they could even let 7-11 collect the money and give you a receipt against your ID card.

[Keesters]

Look at the fine print on an airplane ticket today and see how many different taxes you're already paying. One more would be eezy peezy.

Not disagreeing with you but your scheme would not cover me as someone (farang) who hasn't bought an airplane ticket in over two years and probably never will again. How do I get into this compulsory insurance scheme?

You either do 90 day reports or visa runs? Next time you report (90 days), you pay for 90 days of insurance. If you fly in, you pay 30 days each time, if you enter by land, you pay for 15 days (or whatever your country's citizens are allowed).

The mechanics of collecting the money is not an issue, There are many possible ways. Heck, they could even let 7-11 collect the money and give you a receipt against your ID card.

OK but who underwrites the scheme? At the moment private underwriters, e.g. BUPA, won't underwrite the over 70s. The Thai government NHS, like the British one has no upper age limit. Are you suggesting the Thai government underwrites the scheme and if not what happens about the over 70s. Are they not to be allowed in Thailand? And what about pre-existing conditions. The whole thing is so complicated with so many variables I don't think it would be manageable. Somebody said about it somewhere to me that it is a "giant can of worms".

[ABCer]

1. It should be mandatory.

2. Under no circumstances should they extend the 30 baht scheme to farangs.

It's a scheme for the Thai working class and poor, not a scheme to assist farangs in lifestyle decisions.

I think it's ridiculous.......RIDICULOUS!......that anyone in all conscience would try to use up the few precious resources available to the Thai poor.

Just in case your confused, I think it's ridiculous.

Just so you know.

I suppose I better go put my flame proof suit on now. Oh well.

I agree with you, thebleether, Except paragraph 1. I do not want any medical insurance, especially a compulsory one.

Reasons:

1) I want to die peacefully and in one piece;

2) Nothing compulsory can be good;

3) Health insurance is a scam ("Sicko");

4) Too many old people;

5) Too many people;

Enough reasons?

Edited May 9, 2013 by ABCer

[ABCer]

1. It should be mandatory.

2. Under no circumstances should they extend the 30 baht scheme to farangs.

It's a scheme for the Thai working class and poor, not a scheme to assist farangs in lifestyle decisions.

I think it's ridiculous.......RIDICULOUS!......that anyone in all conscience would try to use up the few precious resources available to the Thai poor.

Just in case your confused, I think it's ridiculous.

Just so you know.

I suppose I better go put my flame proof suit on now. Oh well.

I have private health insurance which covers emergency room visits.

Aside from that If I'm sick I just go to the Pharmacy. They all really wanted to be doctors anyway, but couldn't get into med school, so they're happy to play the doctor for a day.

For annual check-ups I go back to the U.S.

Make sure they don't know you're called Nietzshe - you will get a bad report from a psychiatrist.

[thequietman]

Why would Thailand want to extend a tax payer funded, subsidized healthcare plan to farang?

Perhaps because the aforementioned farangs are also tax payers, probably at a much higher level than those those that it seeks to support...! When I lived in Taiwan, the system was open to all, essentially because everyone (nationals or otherwise) were required to pay taxes on all of their earnings.

Just to point out that all foreigners that have ever worked (and paid income tax) in Thailand joined the 300-500bht/month private health scheme already in operation. Once you have joined you can keep paying the premiums after your employment has ended. So the suggested scheme is pointless and already in operation at half the cost.

I'm always amazed at the general levels of ignorance amongst many foreigners living in Thailand.

I don't think that it applies to those of us who gave up working and paying income tax in Thailand 30 years ago as I did.

I'm always amazed at the general levels of know it all amongst many foreigners living in Thailand.

As far as I am aware, yes, you pay 500 in each month. your employer however pays the other half or just above it. So I don't think it is only 300-500 baht a month to stay in. I could be wrong.