The Thai Mirage - I Met A Thai Girl That Was Working In Ferangland.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You've obviously conjured up an image of a pot-bellied, balding, white bloke in chinos and dock shoes doing the birdie song dance.

You couldn't be further from the truth

I was thinking you were more like guy in the video wearing shorts with different colored socks, shuffling to a techno beat.

(JL is the big guy in the tan shirt, and I am the cowboy on the steps.)

Edited May 7, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[HardenedSoul]

You've obviously conjured up an image of a pot-bellied, balding, white bloke in chinos and dock shoes doing the birdie song dance.

You couldn't be further from the truth

I was thinking you were more like guy in the video wearing shorts with different colored socks, shuffling to a techno beat.

(JL is the big guy in the tan shirt, and I am the cowboy on the steps.)

Far, far from it, gramps

[SteeleJoe]

I was thinking you were more like guy in the video wearing shorts with different colored socks, shuffling to a techno beat.

(JL is the big guy in the tan shirt, and I am the cowboy on the steps.)

If like me, one doesn't watch the video until AFTER reading the above, it's freakin' hilarious.

Nice one. Nothing like well executed self-deprecating humor...

[JLCrab]

This is more my style as a"decrepit old fossil":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LuxxFG9l1Q8#t=8s

[AnotherOneAmerican]

This is more my style as a"decrepit old fossil":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LuxxFG9l1Q8#t=8s

But you're still the fat one, right?

[JLCrab]

No -- I'm in the orchestra

[Nuna]

Yes, for sure, there is interest in arguably more "worthy" matters like business, politics, current affairs and the arts etc in our homelands but that's the case here too. If it wasn't, why would there be TV channels devoted to those topics on Thai TV? Ok, perhaps the quality isn't up to Western standards but don't we all cringe with embarrassment and shake our heads at the glaring inaccuracies when reading or watching Western-produced articles and documentaries about Thailand?

I'm certainly not an apologist or a defender of the realm but, frankly, I think one of the most prevalent mirages is that which sees some develop the sense that Western societies are innately superior to Thailand's when, if you look closely, there are so many similarities.

I think most western articles are extremely kind to Thailand.

It is actually far worse then most stories portray.

Which of us doesn't know of a mysterious balcony fall, or a hit-and-run, or a hotel death that happened to a foreigner.

Yet back in your home countries, not so much I think.

Not to mention prostitution on almost every road or government corruption 'in-your-face' at every level.

But back to the OP with all his respectable uni-female friends, hasn't he noticed about 20% of uni girls appear to have a 'side-line'?

I wish I could meet other Thais that speak fluent English, I've only found two so far, and one really couldn't be classed fluent.

I would be grateful if you inform your compatriot that prostitution is illegal and immoral here so that they do not support the business. All Thais know it's big problem but we don't know how to eliminate it because load of customers come from abroad.

Mysterious balcony fall? I think Mysterious balcony jumping is more suitable, not accidentally but deliberately.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Nuna

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I would be grateful if you inform your compatriot that prostitution is illegal and immoral here so that they do not support the business. All Thais know it's big problem but we don't know how to eliminate it because load of customers come from abroad.

You quoted me, but your post doesn't seem to relate to anything in my post.

But to address your point, most of the places of prostitution I have seen, are Thai only.

This is a Thai national disgrace caused by the low moral values of fellow Thais.

It is illegal, but the corrupt Thai police force and it's corrupt Thai officers do not act, as it is often them running the brothels.

[SteeleJoe]

I would be grateful if you inform your compatriot that prostitution is illegal and immoral here so that they do not support the business.All Thais know it's big problem but we don't know how to eliminate it because load of customers come from abroad.

Illegal? Not precisely. Immoral? That would be a matter of opinion but it apparently doesn't matter much if it is. Take a look around.

Blame it on foreign customers? You should be embarrassed, even ashamed to say something like that. First of all, if Thais are running the business and providing the service, what does that tell you? Secondly it is a simple FACT that a very small percentage - according to international AND Thai organizations who study this, let alone common sense - is catered to or patronized by foreign customers.

Edited May 8, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Nautilus05]

Ok, so don't dress up for a night out with uni-girls in a wife beater, then while grabbing my crotch proceed to say, "hey baby, you like? how much for short time?". Noted, and gotcha!

Thanks for the advice, as don't think I would have figured that one out myself.

[rayongchelsea]

The problem is, that the in your face prostitution is for farangs and the way it's integrated into the everyday scene of life..big difference from the Thai element..this has been caused by farangs and there lack of sensibility to there Thai surroundings, in that every Thai is "easy" perception..

[SteeleJoe]

The problem is, that the in your face prostitution is for farangs and the way it's integrated into the everyday scene of life..big difference from the Thai element..this has been caused by farangs and there lack of sensibility to there Thai surroundings, in that every Thai is "easy" perception..

Let me get this clear: the fact that the sector of the sex industry catering to and patronized by Farangs is in your face (leaving aside the a great deal of that which is for the Thais is as well) is caused by the Farangs?

[rayongchelsea]

Yes. It's on Main Street where the farangs are..most tourists wouldn't have an idea about the Thai scene and its not obvious..

Walk down sukhumvit..asoke to nana..in your face big time..

Pattaya..the obvious areas..

These places have exploded since the increase in tourism early 2000..

I have seen a lot of Thai orientated places and I am not saying that foreigners created it..I am just saying that that part of the market is what people see..foreigners or Thai..

[Nautilus05]

The problem is, that the in your face prostitution is for farangs and the way it's integrated into the everyday scene of life..big difference from the Thai element..this has been caused by farangs and there lack of sensibility to there Thai surroundings, in that every Thai is "easy" perception..

Let me get this clear: the fact that the sector of the sex industry catering to and patronized by Farangs is in your face (leaving aside the a great deal of that which is for the Thais is as well) is caused by the Farangs?

Well, somewhat, yeah... Pattaya was a sleepy fishing village until the Vietnam war, when it became a hot bed for soldiers on R&R.

[SteeleJoe]

Yes. It's on Main Street where the farangs are..most tourists wouldn't have an idea about the Thai scene and its not obvious..

Walk down sukhumvit..asoke to nana..in your face big time..

Pattaya..the obvious areas..

These places have exploded since the increase in tourism early 2000..

I have seen a lot of Thai orientated places and I am not saying that foreigners created it..I am just saying that that part of the market is what people see..foreigners or Thai..

1) The Thais are the primary owners of the establishments catering to foreigners and the fact that that sector is so visible is down to them (and their authorities) more than it is down to anything done by Farangs.

2) Drive around any city or even small town or suburb, and there are LOTS of such places for Thais with girls at the door, neon lights, pictures of girls (employees) outside the venue. Quite visible.

It may be fair to say the sector that services Farangs is more prominent and well known overall. I simply don't see how the Farangs made that so. Even the fact that the insensitive and indiscreet Farangs who walk around with obvious working girls and behave inappropriately - of which there are MANY - do so with the complicity of Thais (the girls and others) because the Thais have decided to allow such an environment to flourish in which Farangs feel comfortable doing so, or at the least have passively acceded to it.

This is not me absolving Farangs or blaming Thais. I feel both would be unrealistic and unproductive. I just have a hard time with facts getting obscured by canards and cliches.

[SteeleJoe]

The problem is, that the in your face prostitution is for farangs and the way it's integrated into the everyday scene of life..big difference from the Thai element..this has been caused by farangs and there lack of sensibility to there Thai surroundings, in that every Thai is "easy" perception..

Let me get this clear: the fact that the sector of the sex industry catering to and patronized by Farangs is in your face (leaving aside the a great deal of that which is for the Thais is as well) is caused by the Farangs?

Well, somewhat, yeah... Pattaya was a sleepy fishing village until the Vietnam war, when it became a hot bed for soldiers on R&R.

Indeed. Trust me, I know the history rather well.

So the Americans forced the Thais to build and staff these places? And to allow them to do everything openly and brazenly?

See my last post (it may not help as it's rather convoluted, but hopefully you can work out my point)

Edited May 9, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[rayongchelsea]

The problem is, that the in your face prostitution is for farangs and the way it's integrated into the everyday scene of life..big difference from the Thai element..this has been caused by farangs and there lack of sensibility to there Thai surroundings, in that every Thai is "easy" perception..

Let me get this clear: the fact that the sector of the sex industry catering to and patronized by Farangs is in your face (leaving aside the a great deal of that which is for the Thais is as well) is caused by the Farangs?

Well, somewhat, yeah... Pattaya was a sleepy fishing village until the Vietnam war, when it became a hot bed for soldiers on R&R.

Much better example than mine..and when people discuss prostitution which place is mentioned the most...that little sleepy fishing village..

[SteeleJoe]

Two words: Cause. Effect.

We should be careful not to confuse them.

Or causation versus correlation.

Edited May 9, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Nautilus05]

So the Americans forced the Thais to build and staff these places? And to allow them to do everything openly and brazenly?

In a way, yeah. Thousands of young, horny, swinging dicks showed on the beaches of Pattaya with loads of money in their pockets, because after all, there isn't much to spend it on in the jungles of Vietnam. Then they said if you want my money, you're going to do A, B and C, so that's exactly what loads of impoverished Thais did.

Granted, it was the Thais who built it up as well, but you can hardly say the white man is blameless.

[SteeleJoe]

So the Americans forced the Thais to build and staff these places? And to allow them to do everything openly and brazenly?

In a way, yeah. Thousands of young, horny, swinging dicks showed on the beaches of Pattaya with loads of money in their pockets, because after all, there isn't much to spend it on in the jungles of Vietnam. Then they said if you want my money, you're going to do A, B and C, so that's exactly what loads of impoverished Thais did.

Granted, it was the Thais who built it up as well, but you can hardly say the white man is blameless.

Thousands of impoverished Thais? Yes. Is that it? No Thais with money - all the way right up to the top echelons of society - were complicit? And it happened without their approval and against attempts to stop it? And all the owners of bars and such were impoverished when they started? The many, many businesses that profited were all owned by impoverished people who would otherwise have shunned the millions that came with the trade?

I've got more respect for Thais than people who talk about "the white man" and his deleterious impact on their society. I don't see them as helpless pawns of the foreign (US or otherwise) sinners. I think there's a reason beyond mere geography that the trade flourished to the degree that it did here relative to other places. I think the Thais to a not insignificant degree had a historical and cultural affinity for the opportunity presented to them and they took it on with a certain amount of alacrity and enthusiasm. (It's hardly as if the trade was new to the country).

See, in saying all this, I actually mean no implied criticism per se in that I don't necessarily see it as something to be ashamed of nor do I make any moral judgments about prostitution or those who profit from it - allowing certain very important conditions which by no means are always extant. But I leave that out (at least for now) as I prattle on too much as it is.

No, you can hardly say the white man is blameless (nor their fellow nationals of other races). And I hardly have. In fact - not at all or even close.

Edited May 9, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

In a way, yeah. Thousands of young, horny, swinging dicks showed on the beaches of Pattaya with loads of money in their pockets, because after all, there isn't much to spend it on in the jungles of Vietnam.

I just noticed this bit. I'll quickly point out that 1) it was a relative minority of troops who were in the jungle (or even combat) and for many of them that was a relative minority of their time in Vietnam 2) They had R&R in Vietnam and spent plenty there. 3) They went to places besides Thailand with their money (but Pattaya became what it was and not other places). 4) Plenty of troops having fun in Thailand never went to Vietnam.

[Sayonarax]

You could have written that topic in 2-3 paragraphs - time to put the bong down.

Aww thats my line

[klubex99]

Most westerners (men) are living the illusion? in a mirage?

Any Westerner with a grain of intelligence knows the difference between the artificial tourist Thailand and the real Thailand. I can assure you of that.

As a matter of fact, I don't think I have met a single farang who lives 100% in the 'mirage' as you call it, without realising the real Thailand.

Try walking around the streets during daytime hours, which are these so called denizens created for the farang/tourist and you will see an ordinary Thailand. Or do you just get back in your coffin at sunrise and only come out at night when the Hi-Fis are cranked up and the girls hit the stools?

Looks to me that you are a very isolated case, or possibly, just maybe lacking that grain of intelligence, or even dare I say it.... Totally ignorant and blind.

Edited May 9, 2013 by klubex99

[slothful1]

Most westerners (men) are living the illusion? in a mirage?

Any Westerner with a grain of intelligence knows the difference between the artificial tourist Thailand and the real Thailand. I can assure you of that.

As a matter of fact, I don't think I have met a single farang who lives 100% in the 'mirage' as you call it, without realising the real Thailand.

Try walking around the streets during daytime hours, which are these so called denizens created for the farang/tourist and you will see an ordinary Thailand. Or do you just get back in your coffin at sunrise and only come out at night when the Hi-Fis are cranked up and the girls hit the stools?

Looks to me that you are a very isolated case, or possibly, just maybe lacking that grain of intelligence, or even dare I say it.... Totally ignorant and blind.

Most westerners (men) are living the illusion? in a mirage?

I don't know where some of you guys get these statements from, were you quoting me? I checked and the closest thing I could find was "Some are still in the mirage".

Isolated case?

Do you think I am the only man that visited thailand that went to a phuket/bangkok/pattaya club and thought it was somewhat real? that these girls constantly coming onto me and dancing with me could actually like me? That some of these girls really wanted to be with me? Do you think that their isn't some men (take it easy, I said SOME) sitting down right now married to a thai girl, with a mind for hustling, that says they love them when they don't? When really they are just draining money to give to their family/ boyfriend, or waiting for the big sinsod payday?

If you believe that these things have happened, would this man not be under some kind of an illusion created in his own mind, by the thailand bar scene?

Am I still an Isolated case? My point is that that the type of rockstar lifestyle that can be easily walked into in this country can lead SOME men onto a devastating, irreversible life path. I don't believe that this scene is a bad thing, I only believe that it can sometimes cause negative circumstances.

The end result is that a man can end up losing his money, dignity, wife, and in some cases, life. And, just like a drug addict, can't admit there is a problem. Maybe the term "mirage" was too sensational for some, but whatever, it's my rant and I'll tell it how I like.

This post wasn't really for the person who has good self control and a level head, much like yourself evidently. It's for the weaker man who doesn't always see clearly, and sometimes walks blindly. Men like myself. I had to get this off my chest as there have been many posts like this directed at me all stating that I'm some kind of an idiot. I understand that you don't share my view, but there's no need to insult me.

[puukao]

This is a typical, "I'm embarrassed being in Thailand, and I will have people believe this country is totally different than what 90% believe." When you defend the country, that is an insecurity. this means, to me, you know this country has lots of bar girls and sketchy massage parlors. and you justify marrying a thai because you now "see the light." I think it's fine, as long as it helps you go forward. I do wish you well.

I do agree thais are very much like westerners. it's all about the money. ok, most of the time. tell her that you are broke and see if "in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer (Oh, something like that)" works out.....

I say quit worrying about what Thailand is all about......99.9% of everyone I know in America brings up sex when I say Thailand. I don't defend the country.....but I do say America has some bad spots as well, and so does every country. I don't care.......

[slothful1]

This is a typical, "I'm embarrassed being in Thailand, and I will have people believe this country is totally different than what 90% believe." When you defend the country, that is an insecurity. this means, to me, you know this country has lots of bar girls and sketchy massage parlors. and you justify marrying a thai because you now "see the light." I think it's fine, as long as it helps you go forward. I do wish you well.

I do agree thais are very much like westerners. it's all about the money. ok, most of the time. tell her that you are broke and see if "in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer (Oh, something like that)" works out.....

I say quit worrying about what Thailand is all about......99.9% of everyone I know in America brings up sex when I say Thailand. I don't defend the country.....but I do say America has some bad spots as well, and so does every country. I don't care.......

justify marrying a thai because you now "see the light."

I guess I do come off a bit as "seeing the light", but justifying my marriage because of it? to who? embarrassed about being in thailand? I don't live in thailand, when did I say I live in thailand? I met her at home (Sydney) and we moved in together the we've visited thailand maybe 10 weeks in the last 5 years. I'm staying with her family for a month at the moment before we get married in bangkok, then we go back to sydney.

next..

[rene123]

I actually read and re-read all the various comments here for a second or third time. It has been educational to say the least. And, by and large it has been somewhat civil... with a few exceptions. I have to say that I agree with most of what SteeleJoe has replied. But, what I've learned the most is about the various contributers themselves. What they write tells me a lot about them and not so much about what they wrote in reply to others. People's outlook on life comes from their own experiences and what they've read and seen. If you've had a broad life with a good education, and traveled to many places with open eyes, then chances are you can make a more valued opinion. If you let your hormones direct your train of thought then chances are you will make some bad decisions.

[varun]

Some of her uni friends speak almost fluent educated english and still they won't speak english with me.

This struck me as a little bit odd.
Most Thai's (atleast those that I know), generally have a sense of sense of achievement /self-confidence, if they can speak a second language fluently (esp. English)
They usually enjoy conversations in English, especially with foreigners.

I believe the likely reasons your girlfriend's friends refrained from conversing in English with you could be:

- They could have been talking crap about you, for whatever reasons
- Jealousy (envious of your relationship/future marriage with your girlfriend possibly?)
- You were a douche to them on previous occasions

Going to the places that many middle class thais go, I now realize that the places most foreigners visit are such an extremely small part of thailand. We drive all around bangkok suburbs going to different places at night and I haven't seen any bargirls or scrupulous looking massage parlours anywhere.

Clearly, you haven't looked hard enough, or those places have not been pointed out to you.
Massage parlors/ hostess bars and other night-life options for local men far outnumber those available for foreigners.
Their pickings are aplenty, and just because you haven't seen them in plain sight, doesn't mean they're not there.
Try this: befriend a few Thai males, and once you get acquainted, go for a night out on the town with them.
More often than not, you will end up at a karaoke/massage point, towards the night's end.

Anyways, I digress...
I congratulate you on your marriage, and wish you all the best of luck.

It's good that your mirage of Thailand is dissolved, and that you will continue to see and experience the 'real' Thailand.
So long as you're happy, what the rest of here say, shouldn't make the slightest bit of difference. Edited May 14, 2013 by varun