How Does The Law Stand On This ?

[stopthegreed]

This is not hyperthetical, It actually happened.

I would like some qualified views on how the law stands.

A Thai family I know went out one day and came back with a new born baby.

They said they had found it in the street, and that they intended to keep the child, which was no more than a day or two old..

I told them that the baby did not belong to them, and the real Mother may have been going through a period of post maternal depression, and now regrets her actions and wants her child back, they should take it to the Police, Hospital, or whoever deals with these matters. They told me they would.

After returning some 3 Months later I noticed they still had the child. They told me they had simply decided to keep it.

Is this within the bounds of the law here, where you can simply take a human being (a baby) and simply not inform anyone, and just keep it ????

If not who is the right authority to report this to ???

[phuketjock]

Be very careful it is highly possible IMO that the baby is an unwanted child from a young

girl/lady from a branch of their extended family that don't wish the birth to become local

knowledge. Sometimes minding your own business is a very good idea.

[Mario2008]

The police or social services would be the right place to report it too. But per above answer, it is certainly not unlikely that the child is of someone of their family and this is a rush to keep things quiet about a family member being pregnant without being married. Especially up-country that can be a big thing.

[Keith67]

A 13 yr old girl and her mother from a fairly well to do family have just gone away from my village to visit relatives for a few months,

an announcment was made that the mother was pregnant after she left.

These things happen all the time and it's never questioned, the advice in the first post is what you should do.

[Jigger]

No harm in calling SS or the cops.... Dont leave your name, let me them check..

While all the posts above are correct, there is always the "what if"... No 1 situation is alike, and for the sake of this child, I would expect an annom call to be put in...

(If it was me, id go down, explain and slip them a couple of hundred with the promise of a couple more so long as my name is not mentioned).

[Hedghog]

A Thai matter for sure.

See no,hear no,speak no.

[GuestHouse]

The child now has a family willing to take care of it.

Before getting involved ask yourself 'will the child be left with a family after the authorities are informed'?

[krisb]

Sad story. Least the baby has a family willing to look after it now.

[stopthegreed]

I understand the child has someone to care for it. The problem is this family cant look after themselves.

They live in what can only be described as a rubbish tip. They had 3 dogs, one of which had 4 puppies. After 2 weeks I went round with some baby milk, because they were feeding a 2 month old baby on mashed bananas, because they couldnt afford the milk.

All the pups were lying outside the house dead. 2 of the adult dogs were missing, probably gone somewhere quiet to die. The place was infested with fleas, and ticks covered the dead dogs and were walking around.

I told them that they need to inform someone of this and get the place fumigated. They simply moved to another hut down the road. They told me it is better to have a large family, so when they grow up they have more children to take care of them.

[ppmacready]

I understand the child has someone to care for it. The problem is this family cant look after themselves.

They live in what can only be described as a rubbish tip. They had 3 dogs, one of which had 4 puppies. After 2 weeks I went round with some baby milk, because they were feeding a 2 month old baby on mashed bananas, because they couldnt afford the milk.

All the pups were lying outside the house dead. 2 of the adult dogs were missing, probably gone somewhere quiet to die. The place was infested with fleas, and ticks covered the dead dogs and were walking around.

I told them that they need to inform someone of this and get the place fumigated. They simply moved to another hut down the road. They told me it is better to have a large family, so when they grow up they have more children to take care of them.

You really are new.

Or are you?

[laislica]

A Thai matter for sure.

See no,hear no,speak no.

As sad as it is, ask if you think that a foreigner in your home country should get involved in an event like this?

Other locals know the score that's for sure.

This may well be a case of least said, soonest mended.

I suggest you keep your head down but continue to observe from a safe distance.

Only if the situation changed for the worse would I even consider getting involved.

Regarding the advice to slip a few baht to keep your name out of it - that would not work IMHO and you would be open to continue to make gifts to keep your secret.

However, you are full grown and as they say here Up to you.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do, or not.

[action]

This is a little off topic and not meant to be helpful but it does relate.

Recently my TGF was asking me about some English words for her friend.

She asked me "What's the English word for like, when you find a baby in the trash and keep it?"

I said, "There is no English word for that. The closest would be adopt or kidnap but they really don't apply to that situation. That kind of thing doesn't happen where I'm from."

She said, "No, not adopt, it's like when you don't adopt it legally, you just find it in the trash and keep it."

I said "Tell your friend 'Kidnap', because that is really what it is".

She came back and said her friend didn't accept kidnap and wanted to know what we call that in English. I said it was crazy and there was no word in English that meant "Found a baby in the garbage and kept it as my own". The idea of this actually happening seems insane to someone like me.

Through further conversation I learned that there is a Thai expression for this situation but it is mostly used as a joke to say to misbehaved kids. It translates pretty directly to 'Kid found in garbage'. (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong)

< Thai language removed, this is the English Language side of the forum, if you wish to post in Thai language, you can do so in the Thai Language forum >

I doubt the police would do too much, but maybe you can contact the center for women and child protection or UNICEF, or as others have said, you could go on about your business. Good Luck

Edited May 9, 2013 by metisdead

[krisb]

My wife said if they get caught, big problem. Baby needs to be given to police or taken to an orphanage. Then if they want to adopt they will be assessed. They are breaking the law. Currently it would be kidnapping.

Edited May 9, 2013 by krisb

[krisb]

Post by action to me sums up how cheap and cruel life can be in Thailand. I will never understand it.

[SOTIRIOS]

...the other side of the story......

...there was a girl that was pregnant.....she delivered......then the baby was gone.....

....nobody ever mentioned or dared to ask....'What happened to your baby'........

....so are you expecting justice....responsibility.....accountability.....in this society........

[winstonc]

its great that you have a heart that cares,but remember youv already approached,any bib,they would know it was you,maybe get some thais to go see them,and see what transpires,meanwhile,maybe just take food for the baby,while things are decided,best of luck,,,

[chrisinth]

I understand the child has someone to care for it. The problem is this family cant look after themselves.

They live in what can only be described as a rubbish tip. They had 3 dogs, one of which had 4 puppies. After 2 weeks I went round with some baby milk, because they were feeding a 2 month old baby on mashed bananas, because they couldnt afford the milk.

All the pups were lying outside the house dead. 2 of the adult dogs were missing, probably gone somewhere quiet to die. The place was infested with fleas, and ticks covered the dead dogs and were walking around.

I told them that they need to inform someone of this and get the place fumigated. They simply moved to another hut down the road. They told me it is better to have a large family, so when they grow up they have more children to take care of them.

I think it may have been a good idea to have mentioned the above in the OP, instead of just:

"A Thai family I know went out one day and came back with a new born baby"

Sorry, but for me the additional info discredits the OP, and makes it look like a troll post.

Just Saying

[Kevin1908]

"What's the English word for like, when you find a baby in the trash and keep it?"

How about saved.

[Lakegeneve]

I understand the child has someone to care for it. The problem is this family cant look after themselves.

They live in what can only be described as a rubbish tip. They had 3 dogs, one of which had 4 puppies. After 2 weeks I went round with some baby milk, because they were feeding a 2 month old baby on mashed bananas, because they couldnt afford the milk.

All the pups were lying outside the house dead. 2 of the adult dogs were missing, probably gone somewhere quiet to die. The place was infested with fleas, and ticks covered the dead dogs and were walking around.

I told them that they need to inform someone of this and get the place fumigated. They simply moved to another hut down the road. They told me it is better to have a large family, so when they grow up they have more children to take care of them.

I think it may have been a good idea to have mentioned the above in the OP, instead of just:

"A Thai family I know went out one day and came back with a new born baby"

Sorry, but for me the additional info discredits the OP, and makes it look like a troll post.

Just Saying

Agreed. The additional info makes the situation more stark and suggests intentional misleading for whatever purpose known to the OP. Gioven that much of the info is characterised as first hand info and conversation with the Thai family I also wonder just how good the OPs Thai skills are given the delicacy and nuances required to discuss such an issue.

However, in general terms anyone being made aware of such a situation has a patent moral and legal duty to act upon it. Forget all the BS about local culture and not getting involved due to being an outsider. If any of the info supplied is correct then you are already involved, you have had contact and failed to act upon info. The criminal, childrens and family laws in Thailand are unequivocal regarding child protection and family law matters even if enforcement is patchy to say the least.

I wouldn't go to the police or a govt agency unless I was a Thai or possessed excellent language skills. However, if one was to do so forget the local police who will usually be hopeless, there is a Womens and Childrens Protection Division within the police force, in almost all provinces.

The best way to deal with such a scenario is to let the experts trained and familiar with such matters inquire into the situation and then act with the relevant authorities if need be. There are numerous womens and childs rights advocates & NGOs in Thailand.

I'd pass on the info to a competent NGO that specialises in the field, in this case Pavena Foundation might be the most suitable. The have an excellent professional reputation and work closely with govt agencies;

http://www.pavenafoundation.or.th/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36&Itemid=84〈=en

[vijer]

The only problem I see is that over the last several months my wife has been telling me to always keep an eye on our baby because there have been a lot of reports in the news lately of babies being stolen. So maybe they didn't find the baby in the garbage but stole the baby.

[Gsxrnz]

Be very careful it is highly possible IMO that the baby is an unwanted child from a young

girl/lady from a branch of their extended family that don't wish the birth to become local

knowledge. Sometimes minding your own business is a very good idea.

Phuketjock is spot on with his reply and this is as common in Thailand as Toyota Vigos. It's the way it's done to save face for the errant (usually) teenage mother and the family. Everybody knows the truth but it usually won't be mentioned, especially if the family is traditional and from a low class. Typical story is the slightly pregnant Mum goes away to stay with distant relations or family miles away, gives birth, baby is delivered back to the Grandparents while the mother trots off to Pattaya or BKK to earn money to feed the family. The Mum will "adopt" the child in due course and nobody is any the wiser about the truth, but of course they all know the truth anyway.

The word in English for this sort of thing is/was Foundling, and it was as common as a horse and cart in Victorian England, for exactly the same reason as in Thailand today.

Advice to the OP is leave the whole thing alone and let nature take it's course. You can bet that everybody knows the truth and that's why the authorities have not been involved.

[derge]

Not the best situation to be in.

I have to agree with winstoc that maybe just keeping an eye on the situation and supplying food where you can for the time being and perhaps finding out more information on the situation where you can as I could only imagine what a family would be going through if they had their child taken from them.

[Wat dee]

If you get involved with the situation I really hope you do the follow up too...

People who want the kid against possible" high class " orphanage...

Unfortunately she/he has to live with your decisions...

A lot of possibilities here if you want be a filantropist, focus on them.

[Wat dee]

I understand the child has someone to care for it. The problem is this family cant look after themselves.

They live in what can only be described as a rubbish tip. They had 3 dogs, one of which had 4 puppies. After 2 weeks I went round with some baby milk, because they were feeding a 2 month old baby on mashed bananas, because they couldnt afford the milk.

All the pups were lying outside the house dead. 2 of the adult dogs were missing, probably gone somewhere quiet to die. The place was infested with fleas, and ticks covered the dead dogs and were walking around.

I told them that they need to inform someone of this and get the place fumigated. They simply moved to another hut down the road. They told me it is better to have a large family, so when they grow up they have more children to take care of them.

You could become kind of a "godfather" for the kid. They keep it and you help. Just an idea.

[NeverSure]

You can bet that the other Thais in the immediate area know what's happening. I suspect there is more to it than meets the eye. If you want to try to save every baby that's living in a fly infested, impoverished household, you have your work cut out for you.

I agree that if you're going to report it you want to do it to an NGO and not the police. You could have every Thai in the area against you if that child is a relative and a birth is being disguised. If you just have to report it, please remain anonymous. Even now that may be difficult as you've shown an interest in the child.

TIT. the Thais know about it and I think it's the perfect opportunity to stay out of it.

[Andre0720]

My wife said if they get caught, big problem. Baby needs to be given to police or taken to an orphanage. Then if they want to adopt they will be assessed. They are breaking the law. Currently it would be kidnapping.

The big question here is: Why would they get caught?

If the child is well taken care of, might be a reason for that.

So in thailand, this is a case of Mai Pben Rai.

I remember the tsunami in Kao Lak.

The orphans were simply taken care of by family, neighbours, anybody who would care.

So this kid is being taken care of.

Let it be....

[Spoonman]

A Thai matter for sure.

See no,hear no,speak no.

I chuckle in that they are Monkey's...........

[MobileContent]

I understand the child has someone to care for it. The problem is this family cant look after themselves.

They live in what can only be described as a rubbish tip. They had 3 dogs, one of which had 4 puppies. After 2 weeks I went round with some baby milk, because they were feeding a 2 month old baby on mashed bananas, because they couldnt afford the milk.

All the pups were lying outside the house dead. 2 of the adult dogs were missing, probably gone somewhere quiet to die. The place was infested with fleas, and ticks covered the dead dogs and were walking around.

I told them that they need to inform someone of this and get the place fumigated. They simply moved to another hut down the road. They told me it is better to have a large family, so when they grow up they have more children to take care of them.

Welcome to Thailand village life.

[ABCer]

Don't be a fool.

Stay out of this business.

You are not the only one who can see.

The neighbours know, see and understand all this better than you.

Hate the kind soft hearted 'good-doers'. All they do is harm.

Remember: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[lannarebirth]

"What's the English word for like, when you find a baby in the trash and keep it?"

How about saved.

Rescued is the word.

A lot of interesting responses so far. I know if my wife were in the OP's shoes she would either

1) Give what assistance she could to help the people raise the child in a more hygenic manner and help provide better nutrition.

2) Make inquiries amongst locals as to what the true state of affairs is.

3) Contact Child Welfare Agencies (not state agencies).