Prevent Wife From Keeping Son In Thailand

[Guar]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to know how I can effectively protect my son and myself against some possible form of kidnapping. I'll explain my situation in a few words:

I'm married to my Thai wife. We married in Thailand. After a few years we had a child, born in thailand. He has both nationalities and holds both passports. We are currently NOT in thailand and due to a lot of things, our mariage isn't what it was anymore. My wife's dad is sick (Truely sick, not in her imagination as it may happen often) and she would like to go and visit him and stay a while in Thailand and find a job. Here she doesn't have a job, doesn't speak the language so I can completly understand that she can't acclimatize to the country but this is another story and not to be the subject of this thread.

While I can see she is determined to go (she won't stay here any longer), I'm still unsure how genuine she is when she says she will go with our son and that I can come pick him up when it's time to go to school in September. Our son is 2 years old so that will be his first time to school. I suggested that she comes back with our son as it would be more practical and that she can go back to Thailand as she see fits to sort herself out and see if it is any easier to make money in her country. I can tell that she is hesitating and this leads to me being afraid that she actually won't return our son and keep him in Thailand.

What can I do from my end to be certain that if she doesn't return our child it becomes something against the law?

I thought about keeping my son's THAI passport in my possession and only make him travel with the other one with a 3 month visa.

Make her write and sign a paper that says he is only to be in Thailand for a holiday and will be back for school but I doubt this effecient.

Any ideas?

Thanks for reading and please don't be judgemental against anyone involved, I just want to know how I can deal with this situation and protect our son. He is too young to know what is best for him and both parties have another idea about what is best, of course.

EDIT: And before someone replies that I simply have to forbid my wife of leaving with my child, I'd like to add that I'd like to trust her on this. Give her some time with her family and see what happens next. It could be a risky thing, maybe I am a fool and we never know someone really but deep inside I feel that I have to let her do that this time and just see what is coming.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Guar

[Guar]

I have done some research and it appears that if my wife doesn't return with our child, she won't commit any offence. So it seems that my "call to help" is a bit senseless because there is nothing I can do, the choice is mine. If I'm wrong please point this out but it doesn't appear to be so.

[stoneyboy]

One of the members on here Mario 2008 should be able to answer your question,you can PM him or hopefully he will come along and answer on this thread.

Just from observation in the past he seems to have helped many people on here which is something in itself he's one of the good guys,and I respect him like many others do no doubts,for the time and effort he shows so often.

[Guar]

Thanks, I'll certainly PM Mario 2008 if he doesn't come along here before

[mad mary]

Thanks, I'll certainly PM Mario 2008 if he doesn't come along here before

What country are you from? Different laws for different countries regarding this .In the UK if a parent takes a child of birth to married partners out of the country without consent (from other partner ) it can be seen as kidnapping.I'd go and see a lawyer that specialises in this field & put together a case to counter any forthcoming activity from the wife.

[Guar]

I'm from Belgium. But the fact is that if I let my wife go on "holiday", it isn't considered kidnapping. Because I let her leave the country with our son. And if she doesn't come back, I don't think it is considered kidnapping either because we are both married so we both share parental rights. And in theory nothing stops me from going to see our son in Thailand unless she hides him. I don't think it would come to that but one wonders sometimes ... And if it comes to that, then it becomes a lot more difficult.

You'd ask yourself why I would let my wife go. One has to trust his/her partner and give someone the opportunity to try something out. I give her the benefit of doubt.

[mad mary]

I'm from Belgium. But the fact is that if I let my wife go on "holiday", it isn't considered kidnapping. Because I let her leave the country with our son. And if she doesn't come back, I don't think it is considered kidnapping either because we are both married so we both share parental rights. And in theory nothing stops me from going to see our son in Thailand unless she hides him. I don't think it would come to that but one wonders sometimes ... And if it comes to that, then it becomes a lot more difficult.

You'd ask yourself why I would let my wife go. One has to trust his/her partner and give someone the opportunity to try something out. I give her the benefit of doubt.

Go see a lawyer and voice your concerns with them.As I said different laws for different nations.

Good luck,I hope someone can help you.

[Guar]

Thank you mad mary.

[Mario2008]

You only have the option of seeking an injunction of preventing your child to leave the country. If she does leave with the child, there is nothing you can do 9having a court order allowing it or not). Your only option is to not allow the child to be taken out of the country.

When she is in Thailand with the child, you would need to start proceedings in a Thai court about custody and your wife can seek a court order for the child not to leave Thailand.

The action of going to court will destroy your relationship with your wife and end your marriage, so do consider it carefully.

She can't adjust to life in Belgium, can you adjust to life in Thailand?

[Guar]

Thanks Mairo, it's what I thought and you are right about going to court destroying a relationship. As for your question, she can't adjust to life in Belgium but she isn't putting the effort in it. I could adjust to life in Thailand but I don't have a degree so having an income in Thailand is out of the picture as far as I ceen see it.

[Mario2008]

Thanks Mairo, it's what I thought and you are right about going to court destroying a relationship. As for your question, she can't adjust to life in Belgium but she isn't putting the effort in it. I could adjust to life in Thailand but I don't have a degree so having an income in Thailand is out of the picture as far as I ceen see it.

A degree is not necessary, but would make it easier. In practice the criteria is can a Thai person do your job, why does the company need a foreigner. If an employer can answer that question satisfactory you can get a work permit. So it comes down to skills, experience and often language giving you an advantage.

Adopting to another country is never easy, especially with such big difference in culture. I hope you can work things out together.

[Guar]

It seems like my wife is willing to live in thailand if I can get a job there. She told me about teaching english or doing some translations. I don't have any teaching skills, experience or degree, but I will look into it. I have heard and read about people teaching in some public schools with an "ok" salary and without the degree. But I don't know how safe it would be. If after a few weeks/months or even years I lose my job or work permit, then what is the outcome when your wife and children are settled already. And for what it's worth, she is maybe saying that so I let her leave and then she will just ask the farang to find a job in Belgium and send money each month and come to visit once or twice a year ...

As for languages, I only speak french and dutch besides english. I'm certain there are quiete a lot of thai people who can to soo I'm not optimistic about landing a job as a translator. It's a long shot.

I would much prefer having my son in Belgium, attending a belgian school. Even if I can land a teaching job, I would certainly do something I don't like. I would not hesitate if that means being with my son but it's not convenient at all.

[Guar]

What happens if I let wife and son leave Belgium to Thailand but son will only travel with Belgian passport + visa and leave his Thai passport home? Will he be illegally in thailand once his visa expires? I guess not since he has both nationalities, but could it help "my case" as a proof that he was to return at a certain date and not stay there?

[Mario2008]

Teaching at an elementary or secondary school requires a degree and that you will qualify yourself as a teacher. Besides, you must like teaching or will not have a pleasant experience. Without a degree you have limited options, but university would be one of them as the rules for universities are different.

The child entering on the Belgium passport will make no difference. You wife will have slightly more problems, but those are easily resolve upon proof of Thai nationality. It will not help you.

maybe make plans together about what it would take for her to stay in Belgium and what it would take for you to start living in Thailand and work from there what would be best.

[Guar]

maybe make plans together about what it would take for her to stay in Belgium and what it would take for you to start living in Thailand and work from there what would be best.

That's the problem. My wife is really decided that she doesn't want to live in Belgium and wants to be back in Thailand to take care of her father and to work. Last night again, she told me she had a great idea. I thought it involved some kind of job for me in thailand, but it seems I was very wrong. She told me our son can go to Belgium school when he is 4 or 5 years old, that it won't be too late and that he has to go to Thai school first. When I asked what kind of job would I do or how we would live in Thailand, I was not surprised by her answer. She said that I could come one or two times a year to visit our son while I work in Belgium!

That is not what I had in mid when I first married my wife, and surely not when we had our son together. It seems she doesn't know what together means. And of course she would expect that I send her money every month, even if she would have a job by then.

It seems we can't make plans together, at least no plans to involve both parties to be happy. It seems I have to sacrifice everything and live alone and be worried about my son every day! That's not a life, not for me.

[Guar]

So I have talked with my mom (Yes, I'm still THAT young to share things with mom) and she said that if my wife's father is sick, she can go and travel alone, no need to take our 2 year old son with her. She thinks that if she leaves with our son, I won't see him again. So I know I have "support" for my mom (and dad surely). But that isn't going to change the fact I'll get shit from my wife.

Not sure what I'm sharing here is useful as it's a family matter and only I can do something about it. At least it feels good to share and write about it.

And I know that my mother in law (wife's mom) has expressed concerns to her daughter on skype: "Is he not going to miss him" "are you sure" "you don't need to come" etc ...

Not that it changes something to my wife as she surely won't listen to her mom but hell, it's at least something positive I guess.

[Mario2008]

It is good to have your mother in laws support. She obviously wants to see it work between her daughter and you.

Yes, you must make your own decisions. What people on a forum can do is give you options, but you have to decide which course you take.

You can try to work things out or at least not let her make a decision in haste. But in the end a marriage is between two people and both have to make it work.

[charliemike11]

Guar

Im sorry my friend for your terrible position, life is indeed difficult at times I write this not as a mother or father but as an aunt who today discovered her brothers wife, Thai wife, has run away and left him in Thailand stranded and devastated, she has gone with his 5 year old son and unborn child due in september. We are all devastated beyond words! she showed no signs of unhappiness in the uk and this was to be a holiday to thailand visit a few relatives etc..

I am in no way suggesting your wife will do the same but my friend if I were you I'd keep the child close, words cannot describe the feelings of pain and despair we all are going through. If she says she's going to return then why take the child at all, would the childs quality of life be better there?

Are you willing to lose the child forever or would she keep in touch and allow you to visit the child... I trust you are well and trying your best to make your relationship work in belgium, has she any Thai friends in belgium, is there a community she can relate to..... I feel for you I really do, just wanted to share with you our experience.

[Guar]

Hi charliemike11,

Thanks for your support. You are right, I have to keep our son close. I can’t let her go on her own with the child, because she won’t return with him. This, I’m now confident about because she told me herself, that I had to come over and pick our son to get back to Belgium. This are her words and I can’t trust them anymore. Maybe she is telling me this as bait so I let her leave. If this happens, and she hides, I lose my son.

Now she says that she has another “idea” or “solution” and that’s it : I have to make a loan at the bank so I can afford to fly with her, stay for 3 months and get back to Belgium with our son. She wants to stay there to take care of her sick father.

He has diabtes, tuberculose and is probably depressed too. Isn’t tuberculose contagious? If so, why would she put our son’s health in danger too.

Yesterday when I told her that she has to leave alone, that I can take care of our son, she will see him on Skype etc …. She just went psycho and pulled a knife on herself, yelling that I never saw that side of her, that she will kill herself etc … I was scared but tried not to show it and just discussed slowly (without agreeing anything!!) and after 5 to 10 minutes she sat down again without a knife! Scary …

I don’t want to give in, I’m scared … but I have to be tough!

[benalibina]

Hi charliemike11,Thanks for your support. You are right, I have to keep our son close. I can’t let her go on her own with the child, because she won’t return with him. This, I’m now confident about because she told me herself, that I had to come over and pick our son to get back to Belgium. This are her words and I can’t trust them anymore. Maybe she is telling me this as bait so I let her leave. If this happens, and she hides, I lose my son.Now she says that she has another “idea” or “solution” and that’s it : I have to make a loan at the bank so I can afford to fly with her, stay for 3 months and get back to Belgium with our son. She wants to stay there to take care of her sick father.He has diabtes, tuberculose and is probably depressed too. Isn’t tuberculose contagious? If so, why would she put our son’s health in danger too. Yesterday when I told her that she has to leave alone, that I can take care of our son, she will see him on Skype etc …. She just went psycho and pulled a knife on herself, yelling that I never saw that side of her, that she will kill herself etc … I was scared but tried not to show it and just discussed slowly (without agreeing anything!!) and after 5 to 10 minutes she sat down again without a knife! Scary …I don’t want to give in, I’m scared … but I have to be tough!

The relationship, how you describe it, seems pretty much over, different interests.. Hold on to your kid, always !! Let her go crazy. Show no mercy. Think and not feel.

[Mario2008]

Simply said TB can be closed or open. Closed is not contagious, open is.

Did you consider she has a post-natal depression or such as a result of her pregnancy?

[DiamondKing]

Simply said TB can be closed or open. Closed is not contagious, open is.

Did you consider she has a post-natal depression or such as a result of her pregnancy?

There is no excuse for pulling a knife on herself or anyone else that is just inexcusable.

My wife did that when I first met her and I made it very clear that behaviour is not acceptable, and if it ever happened again I would be gone and she would never see me again that was 7 years ago and she has never done it again.

As for your situation mate, I am sorry ,I have heard too many stories of fathers losing their kids to kidnap by their Thai wives and I would NEVER NEVER NEVER let that child out of your site, in fact I would make sure the passports are locked away and under no circumstances let her take the kid.

She has made it clear to you already, you stay and work, and send money to her and your child while she lives in Thailand alone with your child sorry if she loves you and the child she will make an effort to adapt and stay with you and if she cannot send her on her way, ALONE.

SORRY but I smell a rat, YOU are in full control right now with normal sane courts that can make reasonable decisions, once you get here its a different kettle of fish, and your just a farang and have NO RIGHTS when compared to a thai (ok maybe you have a few).

HOLD ONTO YOUR KID AND NEVER LET THEM GO, they will have a better life in Europe than being dumped in the village with the inlaws while your wife goes off to work.

DK

Edited May 17, 2013 by DiamondKing

[benalibina]

Simply said TB can be closed or open. Closed is not contagious, open is. Did you consider she has a post-natal depression or such as a result of her pregnancy?

There is no excuse for pulling a knife on herself or anyone else that is just inexcusable.My wife did that when I first met her and I made it very clear that behaviour is not acceptable, and if it ever happened again I would be gone and she would never see me again that was 7 years ago and she has never done it again. As for your situation mate, I am sorry ,I have heard too many stories of fathers losing their kids to kidnap by their Thai wives and I would NEVER NEVER NEVER let that child out of your site, in fact I would make sure the passports are locked away and under no circumstances let her take the kid. She has made it clear to you already, you stay and work, and send money to her and your child while she lives in Thailand alone with your child sorry if she loves you and the child she will make an effort to adapt and stay with you and if she cannot send her on her way, ALONE. SORRY but I smell a rat, YOU are in full control right now with normal sane courts that can make reasonable decisions, once you get here its a different kettle of fish, and your just a farang and have NO RIGHTS when compared to a thai (ok maybe you have a few). HOLD ONTO YOUR KID AND NEVER LET THEM GO, they will have a better life in Europe than being dumped in the village with the inlaws while your wife goes off to work. DK

I have been stupid enough to trust my wife the last couple of years. Unforgivable ! The poorer thais care about 2 things; money and not loosing face. They are ignorant and selfish and all the bullocks that they love the children is to be dismissed right away. Our western morals do not apply to most of them. I have been told in the precense of my children, by a sister of my wife, a couple of months ago;

The children born in thailand will stay in thailand ! I was shocked and could not believe it. I have trusted my wife always. To no avail though. I am <deleted> and, in my opinion, the children are <deleted> as well. No father and a bleeker future. But they are happy though. That is their parameter. Make sure mr. Belgium that you must always be prepared ! I WAS UNPREPARED !!!!!. Family influences play a big part in it as well. Luug khrung are perceived to be much more clever. So for the direct family's future it is a possible asset for their own future. BE PREPARED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mario2008]

Lets take it easy on the generalizations. Such posts will be deleted without further notice.

[Guar]

The relationship, how you describe it, seems pretty much over, different interests.. Hold on to your kid, always !! Let her go crazy. Show no mercy. Think and not feel.

Yes, you are right. She is trying to wear me out so that I give up and accept but that won't happen! I'm a human and have my doubts but one thing is sure now, I can't let her leave with our son or I won't see him again.

Simply said TB can be closed or open. Closed is not contagious, open is.

Did you consider she has a post-natal depression or such as a result of her pregnancy?

I don't know what type of TB he has but I think he wears a breathing mask.

As for considering a post-natal depression, no I didn't think about that but she doesn't really show the signs of it. Well I'm not a pro about that subject but I simple think she is home-sick, she can't adapt to the life in Belgium. I don't hold her back, she can leave on her own, she isn't held prisoner.

I would NEVER NEVER NEVER let that child out of your site, in fact I would make sure the passports are locked away and under no circumstances

let her take the kid.

SORRY but I smell a rat, YOU are in full control right now with normal sane courts that can make reasonable decisions, once you get here its a different kettle of fish, and your just a farang and have NO RIGHTS when compared to a thai (ok maybe you have a few).

HOLD ONTO YOUR KID AND NEVER LET THEM GO,

they will have a better life in Europe than being dumped in the village

with the inlaws while your wife goes off to work.

DK

Thanks for your kind words. You are right, I can't let her leave with our son or I'm the loser. Here, I can do everything possible to keep him with me and protect us against her if needed. I wouldn't want to be in Thailand and have to fight on her turf ... If it has to go to the court in Belgium, all I hope is that they see that the child would be better of with me because of my financial situation vs hers, social status, etc ... I really wouldn't want to have to share our son with her and having to send him to Thailand because that would just be wrong and I won't see him again. She can come here anytime to visit, no problem!

I have been stupid enough to trust my wife the last couple of years. Unforgivable ! The poorer thais care about 2 things; money and not loosing face. They are ignorant and selfish and all the bullocks that they love the children is to be dismissed right away. Our western morals do not apply to most of them. I have been told in the precense of my children, by a sister of my wife, a couple of months ago;

The children born in thailand will stay in thailand ! I was shocked and could not believe it. I have trusted my wife always. To no avail though. I am <deleted> and, in my opinion, the children are <deleted> as well. No father and a bleeker future. But they are happy though. That is their parameter. Make sure mr. Belgium that you must always be prepared ! I WAS UNPREPARED !!!!!. Family influences play a big part in it as well. Luug khrung are perceived to be much more clever. So for the direct family's future it is a possible asset for their own future. BE PREPARED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm doing everything I can to be prepared, indeed. Locking the passports up and asking for information on how to prevent a possible parental kidnapping.

Today I have been to the police for information, they weren't very helpful because no crime was comitted and the guy who answered my questions didn't seem to really understand what was going on but at least I have other places to go or call like Child Focus, some adresses of lawyers. She won't be able to leave the country with our son just like

that. All I have to do is be tough and endure her big show.

Again today when I told her "no, I won't go ask for a loan to the bank, our son is staying with me here, if you want to leave, you can go on your own, no problems", she cried, hit the floor with her bare fists, threw a few things and hit a wooden door in the garden. Not sure if that's just a show to try and make me crazy or if she is really desperate, but whatever it is, I'm not agreeing with her terms.

Thanks all for your support.

[DiamondKing]

With regards to her hitting the floor and throwing tantrums you have to understand this is built into Thais and they are taught that that is the way to act, you only have to watch a few thai soap operas to see the ridiculous tantrums and its pretty much the whole show, with women screaming and fighting violence etc.

They cannot handle their emotions period.

[commande]

I think you have received some good advise and I agree completely that you shouldn't let your kid go with mom back to Thailand. She has already pretty much told you that she doesn't want to live in your country so that being known it's fair to assume that she returns to Thailand with your son and you might not ever see him again OR only if you come to Thailand. Sorry to hear about your troubles, hope you get things sorted.

[Guar]

Yes, she pretty mutch watch thai soap operas all day. Sometimes at the expense of going outside for a walk with our son because she can't miss her show! Not all the time of course, but often enough to be a problem. As long as she doesn't hit anyone, it's all good. It's really annoying to have to live with someone like this because my son is getting nervous.

These days my son is always grabbing me, asking me to hold him, following me everywhere! Last evening we were watching cartoons together and he held me and each minute he said daddy. Like he just knows that there is a problem is scared of losing me!

Of course my wife says that I'm the one driving our son crazy... Of course ...


Thanks Commande. Good advice indeed, not letting him go. It's hard to live in such a situation because right now I don't have a job (another problem for her) but can't even search for one because if she leaves I'll have to take care of our son until he goes to school, that's next septembre only!

[Sheryl]

Do not for even a second consider letting her bring the boy to Thailand unless you go there as a couple.

Get both of his passports into safe keeping and consult a lawyer specializing in family law ASAP.

No matter what she says, once you have the passports, do not hand back to her. Do not hand them over to anyone other than a judge if so ordered.

To be fair to her, it sounds like she is miserably unhappy in Belgium and wants to move back to Thailand, and as it sounds like you are not prepared to do that, she is faced with a wretching choice, i.e. stay where she is so unhappy or leave her son behind. So the temptation to just take him and go is perhaps understandarble, though of course not a right thing to do.

[alexander69]

Mate after reading all of the posts, be strong and dont let that child leave the country.Ihave good experience with this but in Australia with a Japanese lady i married there.She took our daughter back to Japan as her mum was sick??????????

I have not seen my daughter for 7 years and once the child is out of your country its very hard to play fair ball.

If you want to be with your son dont allow him to leave.Let the misses wave knives and punch whatever.Buy her a ticket home alone and see how long the true love lasts.

Be strong if you love your son.