Residence Permit Holder Return To Uk After 8 Years

[flavorself]

Any help or advice much appreciated.

My wife has a residence permit issued in 1987 when she first arrived in the UK. Since then we have been in and out of the UK, but since 1998 she has not returned. I have been reading the rules and it seems as if her residence permit may no longer be valid. Anyone know if this is really true?

We have 6 children (all British citizens) who are living with her in Thailand and now they all wish to return to the UK. If her permit is no longer valid, what should she apply for at the Consulate?

Another complication is that we got divorced a year or so ago (at a Thai Consular offices in the US), so there is no longer a marriage certificate available, although we do have a divorce certificate. Does anyone know if this will cause problems with her visa/permit?

Five of the children are minors, so I would hope that she would get some sort of residence permit but I am not sure. Anyone have any ideas, suggestions,... ????

[the scouser]

Flavorself,

There's no easy way to say this, but your ex-wife has no claim to resume her residency in the UK. Indefinite leave lapses after 2 years' absence from the UK. If you were still married and you were living in the UK, your ex-wife could apply for a 2-year settlement visa but, unfortunately, your divorce has put paid to that. I presume she never naturalised as a British citizen?

Scouse.

[flavorself]

No, she never naturalised

I guess she can at least visit with the children, even if she can't live there? I would have thought there was some consideration for a mother accompanying her British children. Seems strange tha the children can travel back tot he UK, but their mother cannot!

I hope I don't have to go back to Thailand and marry her again..too high a price to pay

[GU22]

Seems strange tha the children can travel back tot he UK, but their mother cannot!

The children are British citizens, the mother isn't.

However, as some of the children are minors maybe the Surinder Singh case has some bearing on this. If I remember rightly the ruling in this case means that a non-EU parent of EU children is entitled to an EU resident permit on the strength of the children's nationality.

Scouse?

Edited March 22, 2006 by GU22

[flavorself]

Indefinite leave lapses after 2 years' absence from the UK.

What's strange about this is the following:

Nov 1991 - left UK to go to Thailand

Feb 1992 - arrived in Belgium

Mar 1995 - left Belgium to go to Thailand

sometime 1996 - arrived back in the UK

There were no visits to the UK between 1991 and 1996. And yet she was admitted without a problem.

[the scouser]

However, as some of the children are minors maybe the Surinder Singh case has some bearing on this. If I remember rightly the ruling in this case means that a non-EU parent of EU children is entitled to an EU resident permit on the strength of the children's nationality.

I don't know the finer points of this judgement but in essence it revolved around a Chinese woman who illegally entered the UK purely to give birth. She purposely had her child in Northern Ireland, safe in the knowledge that whilst it wouldn't automatically be British, it would be Irish. Once the child was born, the Chinese woman then claimed that she was a dependant of her newly born Irish child who was exercising its EU treaty rights in the UK. She won her case.

However, in flavorself's case the children in question are British and, as such, any claim their mother might make to be their dependant will be judged under the immigration rules rather than EU law. Under the immigration rules, she would have to demonstrate that she is emotionally and financially dependent upon her children and, bearing in mind their ages, is unlikely to be able to meet such a criterion.

What's strange about this is the following:

Nov 1991 - left UK to go to Thailand

Feb 1992 - arrived in Belgium

Mar 1995 - left Belgium to go to Thailand

sometime 1996 - arrived back in the UK

There were no visits to the UK between 1991 and 1996. And yet she was admitted without a problem.

That is strange. All I can say is that it must have been an error on behalf of the IO.

Scouse.

[the scouser]

Flavorself,

Sorry, I missed your subsequent question about your wife visiting. Yes, she can visit the kids in the UK but will need to apply for a visa for the purpose. In order to qualify for a visit visa, she will need to demonstrate that she intends staying in the UK for 6 months or less, that she has the ability to financially support and accommodate herself whilst there, and that she has a good reason to leave the country at the end of her stay.

Scouse.

[samran]

scouse....this raises an issue which has always perplexed me about not having exit controls.

how did you blokes tell when there were no stamps in the passport that someone has been away for a certain period. How do you prove otherwise?

Hypothetical: Living in the UK with ILR. I could jump on the eurostar at waterloo, where the french immigration would just wave me through so long as I didn't need a visa for France (Non-EU national eg Aussie, Yank).

I could stay in france (albeit illegally) for 2 years and one day (doesn't seem very hard to do!) living off my many millions of dollars, and then fly back to London. If the immigration officer asks, I could just answer that I'd been away for the week and decided to fly back. How is he/she to know better?

[markuk]

scouse....this raises an issue which has always perplexed me about not having exit controls.

always confuses me too - how do the immigration know if someone has overstayed or not in the UK? as they dont stamp visitors out. Be much easier if they did surely?

[GU22]

Passport controls for people leaving the UK were abolished by the last Conservative government as a cost cutting exercise. IMHO, a very stupid thing to do.

As passports are not checked on leaving the UK, overstayers know that there is very little chance of them being caught. This encourages people to overstay and so, IMHO, makes it harder to get a visa in the first place!

However, if someone were to apply for a second visa and there was an unexplained gap between the first visa expiring and the entry stamp into their home, or some other, country then they would find it very difficult to get that second visa.

[the scouser]

scouse....this raises an issue which has always perplexed me about not having exit controls.

how did you blokes tell when there were no stamps in the passport that someone has been away for a certain period. How do you prove otherwise?

Hypothetical: Living in the UK with ILR. I could jump on the eurostar at waterloo, where the french immigration would just wave me through so long as I didn't need a visa for France (Non-EU national eg Aussie, Yank).

I could stay in france (albeit illegally) for 2 years and one day (doesn't seem very hard to do!) living off my many millions of dollars, and then fly back to London. If the immigration officer asks, I could just answer that I'd been away for the week and decided to fly back. How is he/she to know better?

Generally speaking, the immigration officer is reliant upon other countries' authorities endorsing passports but, as Samran says, not all do. In a situation such as Samran describes, the onus is on the passenger to satisfy the immigration officer that he qualifies for readmission and it then boils down to whether the IO believes what he's being told. If someone claims to have been absent for less than 2 years, it is reasonable to assume they would have recent tax records/benefits claims/contributions history which could be checked if necessary. It is a flawed way of doing things, though.

Scouse.