Who Verifies Credentials?

[attrayant]

I've recently joined the ranks of the employed (yay).

It has been almost a month now, and nobody at the school has asked me for anything other than my resume. Of course I list my qualifications there, but I was thinking they'd want to see all the original documents up front even before they made me an offer.

I've gleaned from the sticky in this forum that:

Language Schools & Universities don’t necessarily require [a teachers licence] in order to obtain a work permit, as they are private institutions.

Yes, it's a private institution that has hired me, so I guess I don't need to worry about the teacher's license requirement.

So will the DoL be the place where my qualifications & credentials are examined, or do they just take the school's word for it?

Thanks.

[attrayant]

Upon re-read of my post, I think my question isn't clear. The question is: Does the school send me to the DoL with a note that says "we've vetted this candidate and he's ok; please issue him a work permit", or does the DoL do their own legwork in examining and verifying all my credentials?

[aidenai]

Upon re-read of my post, I think my question isn't clear. The question is: Does the school send me to the DoL with a note that says "we've vetted this candidate and he's ok; please issue him a work permit", or does the DoL do their own legwork in examining and verifying all my credentials?

You can find all information in the document below.

http://wp.doe.go.th/sites/default/files/form/form_tt1.pdf

Last November I changed jobs. After years in OBEC schools I changed to a university. Indeed no provisional teaching permit or teacher license needed but the provincial labour office wanted a copy of my degree and a copy of my transcript.

[attrayant]

Yikes I don't have a transcript, but a cursory scan of your PDF doesn't say that it's required (only says "copy of education certificate", which could be almost anything). Before I left the USA two years ago, I called up my college asking for a copy and was told that all student records older than 25 years were archived (translation: sitting in a box in a warehouse somewhere), and would take months to locate and they'd most likely charge me a hefty fee. I graduated in the 80s before the age of computers, and apparently all records from that era are paper-only. Luckily I do have the degree certificate in my possession.

But thanks for the document. The school has a sizable HR department who claims to be working on everything for me. Fingers crossed...

[SlyAnimal]

You will require a work permit from the department of labour, likewise what visa are you on at the moment?

For your work permit, because you're not at a government school, I'm not sure if you require a letter from krusapa (The Thai Teachers Council) or not. This is often the most frustrating document for schools to obtain, and is usually the make or break for whether you get your work permit or not.

Either way, you should be fine to obtain your letter from Krusapa if needed, as you have a bachelor's degree. You just need to photocopy the original degree which you have, and give it to your school, so that they can send it away if needed. Likewise when you goto the department of labour, or even to immigration to extend a Non Immigrant B (Assuming you're extending on the basis of employment, and that you're on on a marriage / O visa instead), it'd be a good idea to take photocopies of your degree with you.

A photocopy of the degree itself, rather than the transcript, should be sufficient (That's all that I have, and haven't had any problems).

Most of the other documents required for a work permit, can be obtained quickly within Thailand (e.g. medical certificate), or provided by your school and local education area office, which hopefully they are working on already, and you don't need to worry about them.

Ask your school if they have applied to Krusapa for your provisional teachers licence, they should know if it's required or not, as many of their Thai teachers would require the same thing (If they don't have a BEdu or DipTeach/DipEdu).

[dighambara]

T.I.T. where everone knows such documents can be bought, so few ask for more than a copy of a diploma.

Buying & selling degrees, certifications, et.al. is not limited to Thailand as European and American Universities have been caught doing such.

[Mario2008]

T.I.T. where everone knows such documents can be bought, so few ask for more than a copy of a diploma.

Buying & selling degrees, certifications, et.al. is not limited to Thailand as European and American Universities have been caught doing such.

Checks are sometimes made and people do get arrested, jailed and deported for fake documents. It is taken very serious.

[Scott]

Sorry, but we have had NO luck with submitting a degree only. They want the transcripts. As a matter of fact, we have two teachers who got approved with only a transcript. They do not have copies of the actual degree. One person owes money to the school and can't get the actual diploma until the bill is paid and the other lost it years ago.

As you are from the US, there is a national clearinghouse which may be able to verify the degree for a small charge and this may help.

[attrayant]

I think my scholastic records go back way before the establishment of whatever clearinghouse you're referring to, because my last employer in 2006 (the District of Columbia Government) told me they were unable to verify my degree for the same reason (HR told me the school reported my records are "archived") but they hired me anyway based on my work experience.

It sounds like this'll be an interesting ride.

[Scott]

I verified the records of someone who had graduated from University in the 1950's. There is a small cost for getting the verification, and not all schools participate, but I have only run into one that didn't and it was a very small school in Florida and they verified the degree themselves.

If the information is not readily available, the participating schools have to go through the trouble to get it--I am guessing there is some sort of an agreement with the National Clearinghouse on this issue.

You will not get a copy of your transcript so no one will have to go and dig up boxes in the basement. They will write back and say that you received a degree and they will state what the degree is and when it was issued.

This doesn't necessarily substitute for a transcript, but it does take away the nagging suspicion that you got it on Khao San Rd.

Best of luck.

[Scott]

Oh, and depending on where you are, you may want to try to go with just the degree first and if they don't accept it then get the verification.

[attrayant]

I'm in upper Bangkok, not too far from Changwattana, but why would it matter?

[Scott]

It depends in which province you are living. Why there is a difference, I don't know, but some places are much easier and lax, for lack of a better term, than others. Anywhere in Bangkok is about the same as anywhere else and there isn't much slack cut here.

[culicine]

I'm in Nonthaburi at a private school. I've been here many years and never have asked to have my degrees verified from back home. However I've always been asked to have the originals (a least when getting the initial WP). I don't know anyone else who has been asked to get their qualifications verified, over a span of 12 years a my school. My boss mentioned about it last year (about MoL/MoE, no sure which), wanting verification done, but nothing came of that). I did originally need both degree and transcript though.

[asiaexpat]

Last year my employing University asked for transcripts and a copy of my diploma's for application for a WP. Several months later, I was instructed to take the original diploma's to the Labor Office. The Labor Office accepted my BSc and MBA, but rejected my BS-Law because the law school is only accredited in California. From this I concluded that they have access to data bases to verify educational certificates/diploma's. The law degree is not relevant to my lecturing, so no harm done.

[aidenai]

Last year my employing University asked for transcripts and a copy of my diploma's for application for a WP. Several months later, I was instructed to take the original diploma's to the Labor Office. The Labor Office accepted my BSc and MBA, but rejected my BS-Law because the law school is only accredited in California. From this I concluded that they have access to data bases to verify educational certificates/diploma's. The law degree is not relevant to my lecturing, so no harm done.

The online tool used by all government bodies in Thailand is the database of The Office of the Civil Service Commission (OCSC). This database holds all universities in Thailand and abroad which are accredited by the OCSC. Below is the link (Thai language only).

http://203.21.42.34/acc/index.html

[attrayant]

Last year my employing University asked for transcripts and a copy of my diploma's for application for a WP. Several months later, I was instructed to take the original diploma's to the Labor Office.

This is really what my question is. I was curious why the school doesn't seem to want copies of my... well, anything. But if I am going to take everything to the labor office anyway, then it makes sense. The school's obviously leaving it up to the labor office to make the call.

[Scott]

A few years back I had to verify every degree. I haven't had to do that for quite some time, by the way. It might be relevant in this case because the transcripts aren't readily available.

I certainly wouldn't try to get the necessary paperwork based only on a degree here in Bangkok.

[attrayant]

But how does a transcript help? Presumably if a degree can be faked, so can the accompanying transcripts. It seem to me that regardless of whether an applicant has degree, transcript or both, a phone call still needs to be made back home to verify everything with the issuing college or university This must be one of those bureaucracy things I just don't get.

[Scott]

It would be possible to fake a transcript, but I think it is a lot harder and probably easier to spot. There are often some special features on transcripts to show they are authentic. The MOE and the TCT seem to be a lot better at finding schools that accredited. I doubt that they are calling anyone. I only know of a few cases where they said that a degree was a fake and left it up to the school to verify.

[attrayant]

That makes sense. I remember my old transcript was on that green and white striped pin-feed paper with the holes running down each side (hey, dot-matrix printers were cutting-edge tech when I graduated!). They probably print them on regular paper these days but I'm sure they use a watermark, seal or something similar to impart authenticity.

[utalkin2me]

I found the transcript issue quiet concerting at my first school. They wanted the official transcript, no two ways about it. The way my school sends them is by certified pdf's. They said that is no good. They wanted an actual certified copy mailed to them, which was awkward because there was no easy way to do that online; only US based addresses were available on the form. I then just sent an unofficial transcript to myself via pdf, gave it to them, and never heard of it again. I guess it worked. It was quite annoying though..... the part that annoyed me was if you want to be in the modern age and receive official transcripts (great imo), you need to be able to accept the certified pdf's. Join the modern age, or don't.... don't limbo us into utter frustration.

[attrayant]

An update for those of you who have been losing sleep over my situation.

The school finally asked for copies of everything, which I handed over two weeks ago, or thereabouts. As the nice lady was making copies of everything, she had to open up my certificate case to remove the paper to make a copy of it (I keep my degree in one of those folding display type things). When she removed it, lo and behold there was my original transcript right underneath. So everything is roses and I've got my WP in hand.

Now I'm off to Chaengwattana to try to convert my T into a B. I've heard it can be done... fingers crossed.

If anyone can point me to a thread that lists all the required paperwork, that would be great. I know I need the tm86 and 87, my passport, work permit, job offer letter, copy of contract and two photos. Is there anything else? I don't want to take for granted that the school knows what I need.

[thequietman]

I found the transcript issue quiet concerting at my first school. They wanted the official transcript, no two ways about it. The way my school sends them is by certified pdf's. They said that is no good. They wanted an actual certified copy mailed to them, which was awkward because there was no easy way to do that online; only US based addresses were available on the form. I then just sent an unofficial transcript to myself via pdf, gave it to them, and never heard of it again. I guess it worked. It was quite annoying though..... the part that annoyed me was if you want to be in the modern age and receive official transcripts (great imo), you need to be able to accept the certified pdf's. Join the modern age, or don't.... don't limbo us into utter frustration.

contact your embassy for verification. they will verify for about 1700 baht per page. this seems to keep the MOE and TCT happy.

[attrayant]

I successfully change my T visa to a B today at immigration, even though I arrived around 2 pm. The queue was at 47, and my number was 80. By the time they called my number it was about 4:15. The school was kind enough to send one of their HR people along with me in case anything went wrong, but she wasn't really needed. The only thing they didn't ask for was a medical cert (which I had, just in case they asked for it).

Now I've got a 3 month B visa, which means I guess I get to do it all over again in September.

For some reason, we still need to go to the labor dept on Friday. I'm not sure why, since I now have my WP and visa. What else is left?

Edited June 11, 2013 by attrayant

[aidenai]

Good to hear. In 90 days you're going for an extension of the permission of temporary stay based on employment at the Immigration Office designated to your area of working and living.

Going back to the Labour Office means you don't have an actual work permit but a WP.3.

Thanks for reporting back.

[attrayant]

Good to hear. In 90 days you're going for an extension of the permission of temporary stay based on employment at the Immigration Office designated to your area of working and living.

Going back to the Labour Office means you don't have an actual work permit but a WP.3.

Thanks for reporting back.

Thanks. What exactly will I need to do when I go back in 90 days - show all the same documents all over again? I mean it's not like anything will have changed.