A Visa / Settlement Question Challenge For You

[fatboy25]

Dear All,

I have read through pages and pages and cannot find anything that helps and I think this will be a question for the advisors on this site or those in the know. I cannot get a response to emails to the UKBA and I dont want to go to the Brit embassy, who are extremely tought to deal with, until I know what I am talking about otherwise I'll get passed over. I will also go to my local Brit MP but I need to have a grasp of the overarching issues.

I am a Brit, my wife is a Thai with a Brit passport - she has held this for a couple of years,

My nephew is Thai, 5.5 years old, and my wife has had custody of him for 6 months. The custody was granted at the local Amphor as his mother was unable to take care of him, the custody papers have been attested by the THai MOFA. Two years ago he came to the UK, when we were living there, with his mum and stayed 3 months on a family visit visa. He currently holds no Brit visas.

My sponsor in Bahrain arranged for the boy to come to Bahrain about 6 months ago as our dependant and under our sponsorship (and we are all under my sponsor's overarching sponsorship). We all have Bahraini residencies which is a requirement to apply for a UK visa.

I have now lost my job and we want to return home to the UK. We have no officially adopted him as there are no mechanisms in Bahrain to adopt - we have tried and despite assistance from the Thai embassy, letters of guarantee from a senior Thai MP and a Senior Thai policeman, the Thai adoption agency has not been able to preocess it.

So, where do we stand? He has no one in Thailand, we cannot stay here, my wife has custody, we want to go home and he needs to get into school in the UK and a simple visit visa will not allow this.

Thank you for reading, please help us with some ideas so I can get my ducks in in order and present my case to the Brit embassy here.

Thanks

Very worried,

Chubs.

PS I have a home in the UK which we can return to immediately (its not rented) and assets exceeding many times the £62k requirement for settlement visas.

Edited May 24, 2013 by fatboy25

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You have a couple of different points to consider here. Firstly, you would have to show that you have "adopted" the child", that is a de facto adoption, not a legal adoption. It is complicated, and you would have to show such things as there having been a genuine transfer of parental responsibility from the natural parent(s) to you, and that the child has been living with you for at least 12 months ( the fact that the child visited the UK with his natural mother could be a problem, but it would depend on the facts, of course). You will have to show that it is not an "adoption of convenience", to get the child to the UK). Secondly, you would have to show that you can support the child financially.

The above is a very basic explanation of the requirements. Such applications are not generally easy

Tony M

[fatboy25]

You have a couple of different points to consider here. Firstly, you would have to show that you have "adopted" the child", that is a de facto adoption, not a legal adoption. It is complicated, and you would have to show such things as there having been a genuine transfer of parental responsibility from the natural parent(s) to you, and that the child has been living with you for at least 12 months ( the fact that the child visited the UK with his natural mother could be a problem, but it would depend on the facts, of course). You will have to show that it is not an "adoption of convenience", to get the child to the UK). Secondly, you would have to show that you can support the child financially.

The above is a very basic explanation of the requirements. Such applications are not generally easy

Tony M

Thanks Tony.

This is the issue - we have not adopted the child as there is no mechanism in Bahrain to do this. The Thai adoption agency knows this and this has been discussed at Director level with all their senior management. The issue was identified by the 2nd in command at the Thai embassy in Bahrain and relayed to the adoption agnecy visa the Thai MOFA along with supporting data. Essentially then, no - we have not adopted the kiddy.

Any ideas how we would show a genuine transfer of responsibilities - he's been with us 6 months with no contact from his Mum (the mother used to have sole responsibiity as the father did a runner and they were never married, we have docs from the amphor for this).

The boy has not been with us 12 months, just 6. I have to leave Bahrain shortly, so is it worth us applying for a visit visa to the UK now and spending the next 6 months in the UK to reach the 12?

How can I show this isn't an adoption of convenience?

Financial support is not an issue.

Jesus, I am at a loss - there is nowhere for him to go in Thailand and there is no way we can seperate - not after all the progress he's made in 6 months from being a dirty little shoeless kids with hsi gran to being here in international school speaking English and being a proper little English kid.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

The point of a de facto adoption is that it is not a legal adoption. It is an adoption "of fact". That seems to be what you have, but UK immigration laws are designed to stop people abusing the rules by just claiming to have adopted a child. That is why there is a timeframe for showing that the "adoption" is genuine.

The nitty gritty of proving a de facto adoption is the tough bit. To be fair, they have to be in order to stop people just bring children, relatives, etc to the UK as adopted children. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. How you evidence it is up to you, but you will have to be very thorough. The UKBA will be looking at whether it is a genuine adoption, and not just a way to give the child a better life. The fact that your wife has custody is a plus, but the fact that it was granted only 6 months ago is a minus. In addition you will need to show the following, and more ( my emphasis) :

(a) was adopted in accordance with a decision taken by the competent administrative authority or court in his country of origin or the country in which he is resident, being a country whose adoption orders are recognised by the United Kingdom; or

(vii) was adopted at a time when:

( b ) is the subject of a de facto adoption; and

(viii) has the same rights and obligations as any other child of the adoptive parent's or parents' family; and

(a) both adoptive parents were resident together abroad; or

( b ) either or both adoptive parents were settled in the United Kingdom; and

(ix) was adopted due to the inability of the original parent(s) or current carer(s) to care for him and there has been a genuine transfer of parental responsibility to the adoptive parents; and

(x) has lost or broken his ties with his family of origin; and

(xi) was adopted, but the adoption is not one of convenience arranged to facilitate his admission to or remaining in the United Kingdom; and

(xii) holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity; and

(xiii) does not fall for refusal under the general grounds for refusal.

Edited May 24, 2013 by ThaiVisaExpress

[fatboy25]

The point of a de facto adoption is that it is not a legal adoption. It is an adoption "of fact". That seems to be what you have, but UK immigration laws are designed to stop people abusing the rules by just claiming to have adopted a child. That is why there is a timeframe for showing that the "adoption" is genuine.

The nitty gritty of proving a de facto adoption is the tough bit. To be fair, they have to be in order to stop people just bring children, relatives, etc to the UK as adopted children. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. How you evidence it is up to you, but you will have to be very thorough. The UKBA will be looking at whether it is a genuine adoption, and not just a way to give the child a better life. The fact that your wife has custody is a plus, but the fact that it was granted only 6 months ago is a minus. In addition you will need to show the following, and more ( my emphasis) :

So, the timeframe is definately 12 months? Do you (or anyone else) think it would be possible then for me to apply for a visit visa and take him to the UK for 6 months so we reach the 12 month together? Would we then be able to throw ourselves to the mercy of the UKBA? COuld we then refuse, as Brits, to leave the UK? In which case, what would the UK authorities do with our little fella? Deport him? To where? To whom?

It is fair, as you say - no doubt there are people who take the piss and we all suffer. I guess the only evidence we can do to prove is that we are together and he has noone other than a 70 odd year old Gran who is half blind and seriously diabetic - surely that we be a human rights issue in liberal England?

Thanks for the other points.

In a nutshell - whats the collective knowledge of the forum saying? ? ? What would you do / should we do?

[Tony M]

The point of a de facto adoption is that it is not a legal adoption. It is an adoption "of fact". That seems to be what you have, but UK immigration laws are designed to stop people abusing the rules by just claiming to have adopted a child. That is why there is a timeframe for showing that the "adoption" is genuine.

The nitty gritty of proving a de facto adoption is the tough bit. To be fair, they have to be in order to stop people just bring children, relatives, etc to the UK as adopted children. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. How you evidence it is up to you, but you will have to be very thorough. The UKBA will be looking at whether it is a genuine adoption, and not just a way to give the child a better life. The fact that your wife has custody is a plus, but the fact that it was granted only 6 months ago is a minus. In addition you will need to show the following, and more ( my emphasis) :

So, the timeframe is definately 12 months? Do you (or anyone else) think it would be possible then for me to apply for a visit visa and take him to the UK for 6 months so we reach the 12 month together? Would we then be able to throw ourselves to the mercy of the UKBA? COuld we then refuse, as Brits, to leave the UK? In which case, what would the UK authorities do with our little fella? Deport him? To where? To whom?

It is fair, as you say - no doubt there are people who take the piss and we all suffer. I guess the only evidence we can do to prove is that we are together and he has noone other than a 70 odd year old Gran who is half blind and seriously diabetic - surely that we be a human rights issue in liberal England?

Thanks for the other points.

In a nutshell - whats the collective knowledge of the forum saying? ? ? What would you do / should we do?

This is what the immigration rules say about the time period :

Adopted children

309A. For the purposes of adoption under paragraphs 310-316C a de facto adoption shall be regarded as having taken place if:

(a) at the time immediately preceding the making of the application for entry clearance under these Rules the adoptive parent or parents have been living abroad (in applications involving two parents both must have lived abroad together) for at least a period of time equal to the first period mentioned in sub-paragraph ( b )(i) and must have cared for the child for at least a period of time equal to the second period material in that sub-paragraph; and

( b ) during their time abroad, the adoptive parent or parents have:

(i) lived together for a minimum period of 18 months, of which the 12 months immediately preceding the application for entry clearance must have been spent living together with the child; and

(ii) have assumed the role of the child's parents, since the beginning of the 18 month period, so that there has been a genuine transfer of parental responsibility.

You must have lived with the child for 12 months, but had parental responsibility for 18 months.

You could apply for a visit visa for the child, but you are going to have to explain the whole situation to the visa officer. You will have to prove that the child is going to leave the UK at the end of 6 months, and that may well depend on you being able to show that you are returning to Bahrain to live and work. You will also need to explain why the child is with you and not with the natural mother, keeping in mind that the child and mother's previous visa application is available to the visa officer. Bear in mind that, if you apply for a visit visa for the child, with the intention of keeping him in the UK and the visa officer suspects this or discovers that you have no intention of returning to Bahrain, then the child might be banned from applying for UK visas for up to 10 years as deception was employed in order to try to obtain the visit visa.

I won't comment on what happens after 6 months if the child does get a visit visa, as you are suggesting something that is not strictly legal.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Tony M

[fatboy26]

Tony

Thanks for this, its very useful info - wifey has jiust finished reading it to, so thanks from both!

Essentially then, we will apply for a 6 month visa now, from Bahrain, and state the whole story to the visa officer, indicate we are trying to achieve the 12 months together and intend to return to Bangkok after the six months is up and apply for a settlement visa - we wont be able to return to Bahrain as work ends in a 6 weeks. My plan is to find work in those six month so the chap has a stable home to return to. What do you think? We have a home in Thailand also to live in whilst we apply for his settlement visa

We have a lot of reason why the boy cannot stay with his mother, I also have letters detailing this from our local Thai MP and his personal conformation that the local Amphor and authorities are supportive of this application (luckily he's been my friend for 15 years and wants to help).

When the mother visited the UK she had just finished school (18), since then she went AWOL. Granma has been takig care of him and she is very bad health, which I can prove.

We intend to be completely honest throughout..

[fatboy26]

Mods - please note the change in user name. For some reason I cant log in with the 25 - my PC has been playing up so many that's why? I rejoined with 26.

Thanks

[steady]

We brought our niece over to the UK using the de facto adoption route last September. I remember that the application took about twice as long as the other applications which were being done at the time which only included wifes or girlfriends. I know this because of the thread on waiting times on this site. The embassy contacted my wife and our niece's mother by phone, and were as good as one could expect from a government department and I feel that we were dealt with in a common sense manner.

Our application folder was thick showing things like school fees and receipts (and identical ones for our natural children), medical insurance records, Khor Por 14 (Amphur docs saying we had responsibility), lots of photos from over the 2 years she had stayed with us and a letter from us explaining everything and a letter from our neice (she was 11 at the time) saying that she was happy and that we took care of her, and previous UK visitor visas. We also had her on our tabien bann (house record) so that got translated and put in too. That's not everything, just what I can remember off the top of my head.

We had been taking care of her for 2 years at the time of our application but the point that I worked really hard at addressing was the 'sole responsibility', obviously the longer you are together the easier that becomes. I read and re-read the UKBA rules and made sure that every point could be addressed in my application but there is always a vagueness just because of the way they are written. By the time we put the application in I felt the we had met all of the UKBA rules and could argue each point but it was a big project and I think that I worked fulltime on our application for 2 or 3 weeks before submitting it. Even then when we went to VFS the wife came back out with the folder after a VFS employee told her that she should just save her money and not apply because the embassy will not give a visa in our case! I sent her back in and told her to make them take the application.

So in your case I think that it is certainly do-able, perhaps because the time that you have had sole responsibility is quite short there will be an issue. Do you not want to take a 6 month holiday in Thailand before coming back to the UK? That will give you more time and allow you you to build a better case.

Others will know more than me but is there any benefit from making your application from Bahrain rather than Bangkok?

Steady

[Tony M]

Tony

Thanks for this, its very useful info - wifey has jiust finished reading it to, so thanks from both!

Essentially then, we will apply for a 6 month visa now, from Bahrain, and state the whole story to the visa officer, indicate we are trying to achieve the 12 months together and intend to return to Bangkok after the six months is up and apply for a settlement visa - we wont be able to return to Bahrain as work ends in a 6 weeks. My plan is to find work in those six month so the chap has a stable home to return to. What do you think? We have a home in Thailand also to live in whilst we apply for his settlement visa

We have a lot of reason why the boy cannot stay with his mother, I also have letters detailing this from our local Thai MP and his personal conformation that the local Amphor and authorities are supportive of this application (luckily he's been my friend for 15 years and wants to help).

When the mother visited the UK she had just finished school (18), since then she went AWOL. Granma has been takig care of him and she is very bad health, which I can prove.

We intend to be completely honest throughout..

That could work, especially if your wife and child have somewhere to go to after any visit to UK. But you might be caught out by the requirement to have lived together :

lived together for a minimum period of 18 months, of which the 12 months immediately preceding the application for entry clearance must have been spent living together with the child; and

You will have to evidence all of the 12 months living together, and you will have to ( presumably) return to UK alone from Thailand after submitting the application until the visa is issued, as you must be employed ( in the UK ) at the time of application.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Tony M

[Tony M]

Tony

Thanks for this, its very useful info - wifey has jiust finished reading it to, so thanks from both!

Essentially then, we will apply for a 6 month visa now, from Bahrain, and state the whole story to the visa officer, indicate we are trying to achieve the 12 months together and intend to return to Bangkok after the six months is up and apply for a settlement visa - we wont be able to return to Bahrain as work ends in a 6 weeks. My plan is to find work in those six month so the chap has a stable home to return to. What do you think? We have a home in Thailand also to live in whilst we apply for his settlement visa

We have a lot of reason why the boy cannot stay with his mother, I also have letters detailing this from our local Thai MP and his personal conformation that the local Amphor and authorities are supportive of this application (luckily he's been my friend for 15 years and wants to help).

When the mother visited the UK she had just finished school (18), since then she went AWOL. Granma has been takig care of him and she is very bad health, which I can prove.

We intend to be completely honest throughout..

That could work, especially if your wife and child have somewhere to go to after any visit to UK. But you might be caught out by the requirement to have lived together :

lived together for a minimum period of 18 months, of which the 12 months immediately preceding the application for entry clearance must have been spent living together with the child; and

You will have to evidence all of the 12 months living together, and you will have to ( presumably) return to UK alone from Thailand after submitting the application until the visa is issued, as you must be employed ( in the UK ) at the time of application.

You will also need to look at this very carefully ( my bold type) :

309A. For the purposes of adoption under paragraphs 310-316C a de facto adoption shall be regarded as having taken place if:

(a) at the time immediately preceding the making of the application for entry clearance under these Rules the adoptive parent or parents have been living abroad (in applications involving two parents both must have lived abroad together) for at least a period of time equal to the first period mentioned in sub-paragraph ( b )(i) and must have cared for the child for at least a period of time equal to the second period material in that sub-paragraph; and

( b ) during their time abroad, the adoptive parent or parents have:

(i) lived together for a minimum period of 18 months, of which the 12 months immediately preceding the application for entry clearance must have been spent living together with the child; and

(ii) have assumed the role of the child's parents, since the beginning of the 18 month period, so that there has been a genuine transfer of parental responsibility.

The wording indicates that you must have lived abroad during the 12 months preceeding the application. You will have difficulty with that, I think.

[fatboy26]

We brought our niece over to the UK using the de facto adoption route last September. I remember that the application took about twice as long as the other applications which were being done at the time which only included wifes or girlfriends. I know this because of the thread on waiting times on this site. The embassy contacted my wife and our niece's mother by phone, and were as good as one could expect from a government department and I feel that we were dealt with in a common sense manner.

Our application folder was thick showing things like school fees and receipts (and identical ones for our natural children), medical insurance records, Khor Por 14 (Amphur docs saying we had responsibility), lots of photos from over the 2 years she had stayed with us and a letter from us explaining everything and a letter from our neice (she was 11 at the time) saying that she was happy and that we took care of her, and previous UK visitor visas. We also had her on our tabien bann (house record) so that got translated and put in too. That's not everything, just what I can remember off the top of my head.

We had been taking care of her for 2 years at the time of our application but the point that I worked really hard at addressing was the 'sole responsibility', obviously the longer you are together the easier that becomes. I read and re-read the UKBA rules and made sure that every point could be addressed in my application but there is always a vagueness just because of the way they are written. By the time we put the application in I felt the we had met all of the UKBA rules and could argue each point but it was a big project and I think that I worked fulltime on our application for 2 or 3 weeks before submitting it. Even then when we went to VFS the wife came back out with the folder after a VFS employee told her that she should just save her money and not apply because the embassy will not give a visa in our case! I sent her back in and told her to make them take the application.

So in your case I think that it is certainly do-able, perhaps because the time that you have had sole responsibility is quite short there will be an issue. Do you not want to take a 6 month holiday in Thailand before coming back to the UK? That will give you more time and allow you you to build a better case.

Others will know more than me but is there any benefit from making your application from Bahrain rather than Bangkok?

Steady

Steady - thanks for putting that all in writing, really useful and I am glad it all worked out for you all.

A few questions for you:

How did you and your wife go about getting the Por Kor 14? My wife has been told today that we need to go through a Thai court? I am not sure about this answer as I have met someone who said they did it in a day down at the local Amphor also! Any ideas?

We have a good history, not just from out full time together, but us with her since him since he was born (we are together for every borthday, summers etc), he's also on our Tabian Ban.

And the 6 month holiday in Thailand isn't a bad idea at all - I was just thinking that its perhaps easier to apply from Bahrain as they have few tough cases compared to all the nightmares the UKBA face with BKK applications.

One question though, if you were in Thailand why didn't you just adopt her there, if you dont mind me asking?

Thanks again and appreciate the help.

[fatboy26]

Tony

Thanks for this, its very useful info - wifey has jiust finished reading it to, so thanks from both!

Essentially then, we will apply for a 6 month visa now, from Bahrain, and state the whole story to the visa officer, indicate we are trying to achieve the 12 months together and intend to return to Bangkok after the six months is up and apply for a settlement visa - we wont be able to return to Bahrain as work ends in a 6 weeks. My plan is to find work in those six month so the chap has a stable home to return to. What do you think? We have a home in Thailand also to live in whilst we apply for his settlement visa

We have a lot of reason why the boy cannot stay with his mother, I also have letters detailing this from our local Thai MP and his personal conformation that the local Amphor and authorities are supportive of this application (luckily he's been my friend for 15 years and wants to help).

When the mother visited the UK she had just finished school (18), since then she went AWOL. Granma has been takig care of him and she is very bad health, which I can prove.

We intend to be completely honest throughout..

That could work, especially if your wife and child have somewhere to go to after any visit to UK. But you might be caught out by the requirement to have lived together :

lived together for a minimum period of 18 months, of which the 12 months immediately preceding the application for entry clearance must have been spent living together with the child; and

You will have to evidence all of the 12 months living together, and you will have to ( presumably) return to UK alone from Thailand after submitting the application until the visa is issued, as you must be employed ( in the UK ) at the time of application.

You will also need to look at this very carefully ( my bold type) :

309A. For the purposes of adoption under paragraphs 310-316C a de facto adoption shall be regarded as having taken place if:

(a) at the time immediately preceding the making of the application for entry clearance under these Rules the adoptive parent or parents have been living abroad (in applications involving two parents both must have lived abroad together) for at least a period of time equal to the first period mentioned in sub-paragraph ( b )(i) and must have cared for the child for at least a period of time equal to the second period material in that sub-paragraph; and

( b ) during their time abroad, the adoptive parent or parents have:

(i) lived together for a minimum period of 18 months, of which the 12 months immediately preceding the application for entry clearance must have been spent living together with the child; and

(ii) have assumed the role of the child's parents, since the beginning of the 18 month period, so that there has been a genuine transfer of parental responsibility.

The wording indicates that you must have lived abroad during the 12 months preceeding the application. You will have difficulty with that, I think.

Tony, thanks again for this!

It is looking like we will have to go and tread water in Thailand for 6months so we hit the magic 12 months. I dont mind taking a break (hell, I probably deserve one anyway after so long in the sand) but it would be so much better if we took that break without having this massive cloud hanging over us. I am too young to move to Thailand full time, I miss the UK too and need to continue working but we can't ever be seperated, I'd move to Mogabloodydishu if I had to.

Thanks again Gents.

[steady]

We brought our niece over to the UK using the de facto adoption route last September. I remember that the application took about twice as long as the other applications which were being done at the time which only included wifes or girlfriends. I know this because of the thread on waiting times on this site. The embassy contacted my wife and our niece's mother by phone, and were as good as one could expect from a government department and I feel that we were dealt with in a common sense manner.

Our application folder was thick showing things like school fees and receipts (and identical ones for our natural children), medical insurance records, Khor Por 14 (Amphur docs saying we had responsibility), lots of photos from over the 2 years she had stayed with us and a letter from us explaining everything and a letter from our neice (she was 11 at the time) saying that she was happy and that we took care of her, and previous UK visitor visas. We also had her on our tabien bann (house record) so that got translated and put in too. That's not everything, just what I can remember off the top of my head.

We had been taking care of her for 2 years at the time of our application but the point that I worked really hard at addressing was the 'sole responsibility', obviously the longer you are together the easier that becomes. I read and re-read the UKBA rules and made sure that every point could be addressed in my application but there is always a vagueness just because of the way they are written. By the time we put the application in I felt the we had met all of the UKBA rules and could argue each point but it was a big project and I think that I worked fulltime on our application for 2 or 3 weeks before submitting it. Even then when we went to VFS the wife came back out with the folder after a VFS employee told her that she should just save her money and not apply because the embassy will not give a visa in our case! I sent her back in and told her to make them take the application.

So in your case I think that it is certainly do-able, perhaps because the time that you have had sole responsibility is quite short there will be an issue. Do you not want to take a 6 month holiday in Thailand before coming back to the UK? That will give you more time and allow you you to build a better case.

Others will know more than me but is there any benefit from making your application from Bahrain rather than Bangkok?

Steady

Steady - thanks for putting that all in writing, really useful and I am glad it all worked out for you all.

A few questions for you:

How did you and your wife go about getting the Por Kor 14? My wife has been told today that we need to go through a Thai court? I am not sure about this answer as I have met someone who said they did it in a day down at the local Amphor also! Any ideas?

We have a good history, not just from out full time together, but us with her since him since he was born (we are together for every borthday, summers etc), he's also on our Tabian Ban.

And the 6 month holiday in Thailand isn't a bad idea at all - I was just thinking that its perhaps easier to apply from Bahrain as they have few tough cases compared to all the nightmares the UKBA face with BKK applications.

One question though, if you were in Thailand why didn't you just adopt her there, if you dont mind me asking?

Thanks again and appreciate the help.

We could get the por kor 14 from the amphur office but we had to bring our niece's mother with us and she had to say that she had given up all rights to her daughter and my wife and I were now taking care of all aspects of life for our niece. Even with that our local office would only write that we could take her overseas for holidays, they stated that it had to be the home amphur office for the wife's family that would have to state that we had full rights should we want to relocate to another country. We went there and they did it without any problems.

The reason we didn't adopt in Thailand was that all the advice we were getting was that it would take between 3 and 7 years because I was a foreigner. I think that we (foreigners) are the only people who follow that course, all the Thai's just live with each other without any paperwork and it works for them but as soon as there is international travel involved we, as foreigners, try to cover ourselves legally. In our case we looked at the adoption rules and spoke to staff from the agency by telephone. They were helpful but kept saying that no one could give timescales and one employee told us that the 2 cases she knew off took years, she thought between 4 and 6 years and then said best we allow between 3 and 7 years. Being Thailand it was impossible to get anything in writing. Whilst doing this I was reading up on the UKBA de facto adoption rules and it seemed to me that we could satisfy them so we went that way.

Apart from the extra waiting for a decision we felt that the Bangkok embassy dealt with us reasonably. In fact the rules say that all ties must be broken with the original family, which in our case was difficult to do because our niece's mother is still thought of as a sister in law, daughter in law etc and when she was phoned by the embassy she said that she would love to be able to keep in touch with her daughter - which could have been a big no-no, yet the embassy accepted that it was only what any mother might say in the same situation. I believe that common sense was applied. The embassy understood that just because she wanted to keep in touch there was no way that she had the power to do so because she doesn't have the money to travel. So maybe there is mileage in doing things from Thailand because it seems that time is your only issue and there is a better understanding of Thai family life and culture from the Bangkok embassy.