Demonstrations And Rallies Leading Up To The Election

[Thaising]

Thailand's Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva (center) rushes out of a crowd of some 500 people violently disrupting his political rally in the northern hometown of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra in Chiang Mai, 700 km (435 miles) from Bangkok, March 30, 2006. Abhisit had to be whisked away by the police to the Chiang Mai airport to head back to Bangkok. (Reuters)

Let us roll back what happened on soi lalesap, district of patumwan the strong hold of democrat, where three women chased thaksin out unexpectedly. In revenge for his shocking encountered, some TRT party member start planning to humiliate the democrat rally in chaing mai . The pro-thaksin protesters were hired to embarrass the democrat party starting from chiang mai airport to the university.

[jdinasia]

3 women (shop keepers) yelled things from a distance ... Thaksin ran away ... they didn't throw eggs and chairs or disrupt a speech/gathering ... apples and oranges there

[lukamar]

We'll see what happens - but I expect same same when results are known. If PM has a mandate PAD/Opposition might as well pack it in, because that will be all he needs.

Win or loose for Thaksin on April 2, one thing will be for certain, the Official Opposition as it sits now will no longer be the Official Opposition come April 3. They will not have won a seat in the election, that's their choice, that's the reality of their power play. PAD may be still be there along with the Democrats and the others but the Opposition designation that they enjoy now will be stripped from them along with the power and special status that the name brings with it.

One thing for certain ... the Opposition Parties .... WILL still be the opposition after the 2nd ...... after all they are registered political parties ....

Now ... since there won't be 500 MP's elected and Parliament likely won't be seated ... it is even more obvious that simplistic statements just won't cut it ...

It's amazing how people cannot seem to follow the basics of what is happening here ... even if you aren't here you should be able to see that ....

You can have a registered party that does not make you the opposition, it makes you a registered party. To be an opposition party you have to win at least one seat in an election. Possibly the democrats and others will rethink their positions for the by-elections and win a seat or two so they can be the opposition again.

Time will tell on the 500MP issue and if the house will sit or not, it is even more obvious, you or I don't have a clue what the outcome will be on that constitutional issue.

It's amazing how people cannot seem to follow the basics of what is happening there ... even if there you should be able to see that ....

[jdinasia]

555 ... Luk ... you are dreaming again ... The Democrats and 2 other opposition parties have long histories here. They will continue to be a strong voice for change.

Since your supposition above is that there is a new Gov't on the 3rd ... you are dreaming BIG dreams.

but hopefully when you get here again you'll get a chance to talk to people that are on both sides and can thinkthings through. (I assume you speak Thai Luk ... if not you can always ask someone to interpret)

Edited March 31, 2006 by jdinasia

[Plus]

Just yesterday Thaksin was quoted as saying:

"Any visitor would agree with me that Chiang Mai and the upper northern region are an ideal location for putting people in a good mood"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lukamar, in a space of a few hours you said that Democrats should go and capmaign hard in the North, and that it's foolish of them to do so.

Do you actually have an opinion or just oppose to anything other posters say without thinking? Which one of your two statements deserve a response? None, me thinks, you are just wasting time.

Please explain yourself.

[Plus]

Thailand divided by Thaksin supporters and PAD supporters? Lovely prospects for the future.

Where, according to you, do people like me fit in who do support neither?

Nowhere, isn't it where you have been all along? I bet you'll find something to disagree with Giles Upakorn and his brother if you spend enough time "questioning" his background.

It's not a bad position, mind you, if you manage to announce your stand one way or another without tarnishing your conscience by assosiation with "right wing extremists" or power obsessed dictators, or "two faced fashists", or whoever else you happen to disagree with.

And yes, Thailand is getting divided between pro- and anti- Thaksin camps. It's not fair to lay all the blame on PAD, though. They have never used violence, and never targeted Thaksin's supporters. Thaksin, on the other hand, asked his supporters to stand by him and even "march on the government house".

After the elections the divide will be geographical, and I dare not predict what might happen to TRT rallies, or even their offices, if southerners decide to revenge for an attack on Democrats.

[lukamar]

Since your supposition above is that there is a new Gov't on the 3rd ... you are dreaming BIG dreams.

Dreaming maybe.... Maybe not....If TRT wins 201 of the seats and have more "TRT" than "No Votes" it will be hard for anyone to claim TRT lost the election, especially if they secure a majority of the popular vote, vacant seats or not.

Oh..... It will happen though, I can hear the moaning and whining now, from the losers or probably more correctly the non runners. They will have more excuses than a Farang with a upcountry hooch hangover in the morning.

If the majority of the Thai people vote against Thaksin and the TRT, I'll accept their democratic mandate and accept that he and the TRT should go. If however Thaksin and the TRT receive the majority of votes then will you be as willing to accept the result, I think not and that action will keep you Dreamland.

The only thing the the PAD and the Democrats haven't tried is "Divine Intervention" and an anonymous source told me "God doesn't do mandated interventions in Buddhist countries.".

[Plus]

From the AP report quoted a dew pages earlier:

"The conflict was the rowdiest incident yet between Thaksin supporters and his critics, who accuse him of corruption and abuse of power and have been rallying almost daily for weeks in Bangkok."

This is absolutely wrong. The incident was NOT between Thaksin's supporters and his critics rallying in Bangkok. It was an attack on the Opposition party.

It's a major blunder on part of AP, and they didn't just get the facts wrong, they've shown complete misunderstanding of the current situation where there are three, not two, major forces/parties -Thaksin, PAD, and the Opposition.

[Plus]

PAD and the Opposition do not accept the legitimacy of these elections, so they won't accept the result either way.

50% condition to resign was made by Thaksin, not by his opponents.

[lukamar]

Lukamar, in a space of a few hours you said that Democrats should go and capmaign hard in the North, and that it's foolish of them to do so.

Do you actually have an opinion or just oppose to anything other posters say without thinking? Which one of your two statements deserve a response? None, me thinks, you are just wasting time.

Please explain yourself.

I have always said the opposition parties should have started campaigning in the upcountry areas the day after the last election. I'm sorry you have a poor memory.

The Democrats in Chiang Mai were not campaigning, they have no candidates running to campaign with. Their action was probably seen as an affront to the TRT supporters because of their current position and alliances, but in the end it was poor planning on the part of the Democrat strategists, probably designed to illicit the response it got. There are 2 sides to everything, mine nor yours is always correct.

BTW:- If my post is, "just wasting time", Don't read it and don't bother to respond. I'm allowed my views just as you are and neither of us has to explain themselves to the other.

I think you just know I may be correct and you just can't bear the thought of it.

[jdinasia]

Since your supposition above is that there is a new Gov't on the 3rd ... you are dreaming BIG dreams.

Dreaming maybe.... Maybe not....If TRT wins 201 of the seats and have more "TRT" than "No Votes" it will be hard for anyone to claim TRT lost the election, especially if they secure a majority of the popular vote, vacant seats or not.

Oh..... It will happen though, I can hear the moaning and whining now, from the losers or probably more correctly the non runners. They will have more excuses than a Farang with a upcountry hooch hangover in the morning.

If the majority of the Thai people vote against Thaksin and the TRT, I'll accept their democratic mandate and accept that he and the TRT should go. If however Thaksin and the TRT receive the majority of votes then will you be as willing to accept the result, I think not and that action will keep you Dreamland.

The only thing the the PAD and the Democrats haven't tried is "Divine Intervention" and an anonymous source told me "God doesn't do mandated interventions in Buddhist countries.".

Still absolutely clueless about pluralism and the nature of democratic institutions ... but that's cool. When the Apr 2 elections fail to seat a Parlaiment .. and things get worse ... some farang upcountry will be sitting around and whining that "those troublemakers in BKK got their own way"

Thailand isn't the West ... it's got a few years of trying this experiment in Democracy and found out that things aren't set up right yet.

No problem ... after failing to be able to convene Parlaiment ... and having no hope of doing so ... things will change. It will be clear that Thaksin will have to step down and then elections will be called far enough out for a fair election. .... Or someone will do something stupid and resort to violence ... bringing in either HM or the Army....

Luk you just have to give up on BKK ever accepting your concept of Democracy that allows the masses to tyranize the rest .... People here REMEMBER polpot .... they know that things can be wrong ... even when there's 50%+1 that vote for it.

[lukamar]

People here REMEMBER polpot .... they know that things can be wrong ... even when there's 50%+1 that vote for it.

That's a strange analogy, Thaksin - Pol Pot. Hmm............ If that was the case there would be no demonstrators or academics left to demonstrate and no press to report it. The BKK minority is just upset because a bunch of uneducated, uninformed farmers hold the power base in the country and will for some time to come.

[jdinasia]

guess you missed where Someone took power in Cambodia and idealised the poor/uneducated the same way you do.

<snip>

Edited March 31, 2006 by Jai Dee

[Plus]

I still think, the Democrats, or some party, should go to the North and work hard to get the rural people behind them. A couple of days before the election going into the opposition stronghold is poor timing on the Democrats part.

I concede you made two points in the same post, not separated by a few hours. My mistake, sorry.

Also you are right that Democrats are not campaigning as they are not running in the elections. These days they hold rallies to explain their boycott, and I don't see any legitimate reason why they can't do it anywhere in the country. That's their Constitutional right.

Also you right that you said Democrats should have started campaigning the day the last elections ended. You didn't say when the North became a no go zone, though.

Do you really think that Democrats should not hold any rallies in Thaksin's strongholds anymore?

[hammered]

In the last election TRT failed to win 20% of the vote in 60 of the 120 consitiuencies where they curently face no opposition.

A leaked TRT report claimed they would fail in 100 constituencies.

Undoubtedly they will increase their vote count in many northern and north easstern consituencies, but elsewhere there popularity is probably down. It looks like we are not just taking about a handful of unfilled seats.

[Plus]

Where did you find that leaked report? Also where did you find the statistics for previous elections? They must have been published somewhere online.

[sriracha john]

If Thaksin walked into Siam Paragon during the PAD protest, the exact same would happen.

what a load of crap...

besides, we're dealing with REALITY here, not your hypothetical guesses...

Considering the PAD is burning effigies of him and carrying signs portraying him as Hitler, it's obvious some of the 50,000 to 300,000 would do something violent to him.

oh, so it's 300,000 now is it? .... hahahaha... I thought all the anti-PAD people prided themselves on the low-ball figures of 20,000 to 30,000.... but nevermind.

your point on violence on Thaksin is supposition and guessing... my point is reality.... sort of like the difference between violence on a effigy and violence on a real live human....

once you can separate fantasy and reality more effectively in your mind... you can come back and post some more, ok??

To all others....... I'm sorry about the strong wording in my earlier post... it's just that the plethora of trolls on thaivisa these days gets my dander up more than usual.... I'll attempt to curb that ...

Edited March 31, 2006 by sriracha john

[hammered]

Where did you find that leaked report? Also where did you find the statistics for previous elections? They must have been published somewhere online.

The report was mentioned in one of the local English language dailies in the last week. The 60 seat failure last time is mentioned in todays UK Guardian.

[hammered]

<snip>

My Wife comes from a farming family from Northern Thailand and neither my wife nor her mother would want any free handouts including land from the PM. Sometimes in these debates we overstereotype people depending on their social status or the region they come from.

Edited March 31, 2006 by Jai Dee

[lukamar]

Do you really think that Democrats should not hold any rallies in Thaksin's strongholds anymore?

I've said the before opposition parties should have organized long ago upcountry, if they, being the opposition parties, had of done that there may not be as bad of a the problem in the country and the people upcountry may have had a choice. They did not organize or try to get the rural vote on their side, that's a big problem for them they are not seen as pro rural, especially now. Until they can get the support of the upcountry they will not form the government. If they had organized some kind of grassroots upcountry, and I don't mean a single visit to CMU a couple of days prior to the election, they may well have pulled in some important gains in the countryside due to the general anti-Thaksin sentiment nationwide. Yes some of that sentiment is in the North and Northeast as well but they have failed to move into the area soon enough, they should have started a year ago.

If the opposition was smart they would have formed a coalition among themselves, let PAD independently cause their havoc and made Thaksin look bad. They could have decided what candidates in what ridings had the best chance of derailing the TRT and run one single candidate instead of running candidates against each other and splitting the vote among themselves. They might have even formed the government if the people had a choice but they did not run candidates and they let a golden opportunity slip away.

[jdinasia]

Nah ... I like farmers !! The one's I know would all feel the same as your wife's family Hammered .... but there must be SOME reason for a farang to support this travesty of "CEO Democracy" ...

Thai people are proud and none of them want to be ignored ... but even more so they respect an honor HM ....

These populist things that Thaksin has done and continues to do PLUS his pushing for more consumerism and spending ... are directly against the sustainable growth that HM has always pushed for ....

but hey ... let's sell AOT and fund the 30 baht scheme .....

and sell EGAT and and fund ......

[ColPyat]

And yes, Thailand is getting divided between pro- and anti- Thaksin camps. It's not fair to lay all the blame on PAD, though. They have never used violence, and never targeted Thaksin's supporters.

Sorry, but this is not entirely true.

At the Roal Plaza rallies were the lone Thaksin supporters who were physically attacked by the crowd, fortunately they were protected by plainclothes police and rally ushers. Then there was the incident at Saphan Pan Fa during the first march in which Chamlong and Sondhi broke through the police blockade while the other PAD leaders negotiated with police, and have this way provoced and risked violence, that was fortunately averted by the coolheaded police.

Of course this may appear small compared to the incident at the Democrat speach in Chiang Mai, but things have been heating up over the recent months. What do you expect in such a situation? Do you think the "square face song" was not done as an act of extreme provocation? Some here are of the opinion that this song was done for "educational purposes", but the excessive amount of abusive language, especially towards Thaksin's family and children in this song can easily be considered as verbal violence.

For months now Thaksin supporters had to listen to heftiest abuse against their idol Thaksin that was voiced during the rallies, had to listen to accusations that they are only stupid people that were bought. In their eyes the Democrats through the election boycott made themselves partisan to the PAD. It is only natural that such an incident had to happen over time, and i do expect more, and far more violent was as well.

It may satisfy the PAD supporters here on this board that the first incient of slightly considerable public violence has been committed by Thaksin supporters, and may be seen as a confirmation of their position.

For me though there is nothing satisfactory in this at all. It is just another sign of further deteroration of the political mess in Thailand. At fault are the leaders of both sides who are not able to sit down, negotiate, and find a compromise. This is a very sad state of affairs.

The question is not who initiates violence, this is just infantile. Like bloody children standing there and accusing each other of this and that, provocing each other until one loses his nut and hits.

The question is who is going to find a way out of this mess in order to stop even more damage to the country.

And if you think that Dad stepping own to bring an end to this will be the correct solution, than you accept the failure of the democratic system in Thailand. And this will be noted by the world, especially by long term investors who will move to countries with more stable and mature political sythems in which conflicts are solved by negotiation and compromise.

[lukamar]

but I remember you saying something about family and farmers .....

My father in law is retired military, I'm sure he'd love to discuss being a farmer with you...LOL Phayao is a farming area and as such you know a lot of the local folk farmers, military, police and the local monk.

[Jai Dee]

A number of inflammatory and off-topic comments have been deleted from this thread.

Please keep the discussion civil folks.

[joe beets]

If Thaksin walked into Siam Paragon during the PAD protest, the exact same would happen.

This argument might not be totally absurd if what happened in Chiang Mai was the Democrats crashing a TRT event.

But since it was -

A Democrat party outdoor rally [which] was brought to an abrupt end last night when Thaksin Shinawatra loyalists stormed the venue...

...it's apples and oranges.

Nice try.

Not.

Oh yeah, I also noticed that -

The meeting began about 7pm but only about 200 people could get in as people claiming to be from the Rak Thaksin (Love Thaksin) group blocked the entrance.

Are you feeling the love?

As soon as Democrat deputy leader Alongkorn Ponlabutr began his speech, with party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva on the stage as well, about 1,000 people wearing yellow headbands with the ''Love Thaksin'' slogan drove up.

Love, love, love!

In the presence of about 200 police, the protesters used loudhailers to berate the Democrats and warned them to leave Chiang Mai at once.

The late Mayor Daley of Chicago's quote from 1968 springs to mind -

The police are not here to create disorder. They are here to preserve disorder.

The Sang Som's on me, Officer Somchai!

Mr Alongkorn tried to continue but had to stop when the protesters began throwing plastic bottles at the audience and rammed their vehicles into the fences near the stage, forcing the Democrats and the audience to flee.

Nice democracy you got here, gov.

Shame if som'ing was to 'appen to it.

jb

[Jai Dee]

The Democrat Party believes that the chaos during the party's address yesterday was set by some ill-intentioned people

The Democrat Party’s address in Chiang Mai (เชียงใหม่) Province yesterday was ended abruptly by a pro-government group, while the party's Deputy Leader, Mr. Chaiwut Bunawat (ชัยวุฒิ บรรณวัฒน์), expressed his belief that this incident had been set before.

He informed that the Democrat Party had organized its rally in the Northern provinces for many times before. However, such chaos has never taken place. He has also requested officials to put more effort in providing security.

He has affirmed that the party will still continue to hold its rally in other provinces to clarify its reason for not fielding its members to run in the upcoming general election on April 2nd. However, the Democrat Party is continuing its strategy to inform the public about the current political situation.

Democrat Party Spokesperson Ong-art Klampaiboon (องอาจ คล้ามไพบูลย์) added that the meeting today between the party members will discuss on whether the party will file a lawsuit against the pro-government supporters.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 31 March 2006

[sriracha john]

3 women (shop keepers) yelled things from a distance ... Thaksin ran away ... they didn't throw eggs and chairs or disrupt a speech/gathering ... apples and oranges there

Also, they also didn't ram their trucks into gates surrounding Thaksin, like they did in Chiang Mai....

Is it that difficult for some to separate the difference between verbal and physical confrontation?

[Jai Dee]

Former Opposition parties believe the general election on the 2nd of April will not end the political crisis

The three former Opposition parties believe the upcoming general election on the 2nd of April will not help solving the political crisis, where Chart Thai has proposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to halt his political activities. He said the neutral body should be invited to join the cabinet for constitutional amendment so that it will be fair for all sides.

Democrat Party leader Mr. Abhisit Vejjajiva(อภิสิทธิ์ เวชชาชีวะ), Deputy Chart Thai party leader Somsak Prisanananthakul(สมศักดิ์ ปริศนานันทกุล) and Mahachon Party leader Sanan Khajornprasat(สนั่น ขจรประศาสน์) as the leaders of the three former Opposition parties jointly agreed that the general election will not solve the ongoing tension, especially the conflicts between the two sides of people.

Mr. Somsak indicated that to halt the current political issues, the premier should resign from his post after the general election. He said a respectful and appropriate figure should take the post of Prime Minister. He added that neutral figure should be invited to join the cabinet for the real political reform.

Whereas, Mahachon leader Sanan added that this the first time in the history where a massive group of people have demanded caretaker PM to resign from his post in a peaceful manner.

The three former Opposition parties have also encouraged Thai citizens to show up for the April 2nd election.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 31 March 2006

[ColPyat]

Is it that difficult for some to separate the difference between verbal and physical confrontation?

The difference between verbal and physical violence lies just in the degree, but stems from the same emotional condition.

[sriracha john]

So much for the Thaksin supporters saying "Democrats should go North and educate the people"

Possibly they see the Democrats as part of a minority from BKK trying to overthrow the government they elected or trying to disrupt them electing it once again.

I still think, the Democrats, or some party, should go to the North and work hard to get the rural people behind them. A couple of days before the election going into the opposition stronghold is poor timing on the Democrats part.

1. So using violence is acceptable against those that have only used non-violent methods themselves??

2. The Hells Angels Party riding their Harleys into Chiang Mai would be an appropriate party to go to the North.

1:- Nobody said violence was acceptable, at least not me. I said it was poor judgment on the part of the Democrat leader to walk into the TRT stronghold, to oppose a party that is running in the election when they have opted not to run any candidates, a couple of days before an election and expect to be welcomed with open arms.

2:- You completely lost me on that one. I guess it's some sort of analogy to some of the mafia type Pad leaders or something..

1. Fair enough you weren't saying violence isn't acceptable and were merely pointing out that some people do.

As for your subsequent response to 1., re-read why he was there... and I don't think he expected to be welcome with open arms but I also don't think he expected to have his life threatened.

2. You proposed "some party" should go North and etc.....

I was simply suggesting a party that's usually well-equipped to deal with the likes of the hooligans the Democrats encountered... sorry you missed the sarcasm.