Can Burma Avoid The Curse Of Sex Tourism?

[Berkshire]

Interesting article. The title says it all.

http://world.time.com/2013/04/12/can-burma-avoid-the-curse-of-sex-tourism/?iid=obnetwork

Excerpts:

A sex industry catering to foreign tourists has been kept largely at
bay, simply because Burma has had relatively few visitors to date.
(Thailand, by comparison, received 22 million visitors in 2012.) But
there are signs this is changing. Andrea Valentin, founder of Tourism Transparency,

which advocates responsible tourism in Burma, says she recently came across a

website in Japan advertising sex tourism in the country, with a list of hotels willing
to help arrange it. Hotel owners have also told her that they provide
tourists with phone numbers for prostitutes when asked. “They have said,
‘Look, we have problems. We don’t know what to do because we’re a
hotel, we want tourists to feel well.’”

[DagonKhan]

In response to the title of this thread, yes Myanmar can. It's far too expensive for people to come here as it is, they'll just go to Thailand.

On a more serious note, there was very little prior to U.S. sanctions. As with any city there were the usual haunts and a few international hotels which had (and still have) a number of prostitutes in their bars. All of that paled into insignificance after the U.S. sanctions. Tens of thousands of girls working in the garment factories found themselves with no work. Almost overnight KTV joints sprang up all over the place, hundreds of them. They all cater to the local market though. It's big business here already, many of the hotels are commonly known as 'short stay' hotels, almost none of this has anything to do with foreigners, they've managed that all by themselves. When I think of Yangon, I don't think that anywhere I could live would be more than 400 metres from either a KTV, a short stay hotel or some of the other well known places that offer a 'dual' service.

 

[phazey]

Ah..A good pint in the Sedona back in the good old days.

[DagonKhan]

Ah..A good pint in the Sedona back in the good old days.

I was trying to think when they let the girls in. I remember that there were none from when they opened up until about 1998? Or was it 1999? It was roundabout the time that Brigitte left I believe, that AJ opened the doors was it not?

[SeaVisionBurma]

Ah..A good pint in the Sedona back in the good old days.

I was trying to think when they let the girls in. I remember that there were none from when they opened up until about 1998? Or was it 1999? It was roundabout the time that Brigitte left I believe, that AJ opened the doors was it not?

They were definitely in there by March or April 1999 - as it is the first ever pub I got dragged into on my first ever day in the country.

Also the day I managed to meet a good friend for the first time.

Ahh, happy days.

Had a read of the article - it seems to paint a picture that the sex trade in Myanmar is somewhat secretive and hidden away.

Certainly not my impression, it is there and not difficult to find.

Have to agree with DK - I remember the bigger wave of sanctions and reports of thousands of garment workers suddenly out of work. There seemed to be a lot more 'fashion show' places appearing around the suburbs after that. Or maybe I just hadn't noticed as many before living on a small island most of the time.

Myanmar's high prices (in terms of visiting/accommodation will certainly be a factor in stopping it becoming a sex tourist destination, and that is not a bad thing. Too many other good things to visit and see in the country.

[phazey]

Ah..A good pint in the Sedona back in the good old days.

I was trying to think when they let the girls in. I remember that there were none from when they opened up until about 1998? Or was it 1999? It was roundabout the time that Brigitte left I believe, that AJ opened the doors was it not?

They were there in August 1998 - my first visit. Good old AJ and his comments in the press - something like "the bar is only in the black because of the working girls" Cue club closure..

[uptheos]

In response to the title of this thread, yes Myanmar can. It's far too expensive for people to come here as it is, they'll just go to Thailand.

On a more serious note, there was very little prior to U.S. sanctions. As with any city there were the usual haunts and a few international hotels which had (and still have) a number of prostitutes in their bars. All of that paled into insignificance after the U.S. sanctions. Tens of thousands of girls working in the garment factories found themselves with no work. Almost overnight KTV joints sprang up all over the place, hundreds of them. They all cater to the local market though. It's big business here already, many of the hotels are commonly known as 'short stay' hotels, almost none of this has anything to do with foreigners, they've managed that all by themselves. When I think of Yangon, I don't think that anywhere I could live would be more than 400 metres from either a KTV, a short stay hotel or some of the other well known places that offer a 'dual' service.

I remember The Ruby Garden hotel well.

[onthemoon]

Every big city in the world has it's sex trade. That's quite normal.

Will Yangon become a major hub? I don't know. Laos is trying to avoid it, and in Cambodia, prostitution, while it does exist (like everywhere else) is a side show. I think the article linked to is just blowing it up out of proportion.

[sabaijai]

Prostitution has always been around in Myanmar, albeit at a locals-only level. When I first visited in the mid 1980s, there were sex workers available at major crossroads where truck routes intersected. Many guesthouses and hotels reserved one or two floors for sex workers and their customers.

The more visible Yangon version we see today represents a small percentage of the trade, and probably the most benign.

[uptheos]

Every big city in the world has it's sex trade. That's quite normal.

Will Yangon become a major hub? I don't know. Laos is trying to avoid it, and in Cambodia, prostitution, while it does exist (like everywhere else) is a side show. I think the article linked to is just blowing it up out of proportion.

No it will not become a major hub.

[onthemoon]

Every big city in the world has it's sex trade. That's quite normal.

Will Yangon become a major hub? I don't know. Laos is trying to avoid it, and in Cambodia, prostitution, while it does exist (like everywhere else) is a side show. I think the article linked to is just blowing it up out of proportion.

No it will not become a major hub.

You say that with conviction. While my feeling is that you are right, what makes you so sure?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Nobody here ever visited Mae Sai or Mae Sot then.

Not Burma, but near as damn it.

[Tomtomtom69]

In response to the title of this thread, yes Myanmar can. It's far too expensive for people to come here as it is, they'll just go to Thailand.

On a more serious note, there was very little prior to U.S. sanctions. As with any city there were the usual haunts and a few international hotels which had (and still have) a number of prostitutes in their bars. All of that paled into insignificance after the U.S. sanctions. Tens of thousands of girls working in the garment factories found themselves with no work. Almost overnight KTV joints sprang up all over the place, hundreds of them. They all cater to the local market though. It's big business here already, many of the hotels are commonly known as 'short stay' hotels, almost none of this has anything to do with foreigners, they've managed that all by themselves. When I think of Yangon, I don't think that anywhere I could live would be more than 400 metres from either a KTV, a short stay hotel or some of the other well known places that offer a 'dual' service.

What do you mean by "far too expensive for people to come as it is". No it isn't. There are an increasing number of direct flights from Europe, the middle East etc. to Myanmar (mainly Yangon) thus eliminating the need to transit in Bangkok and cutting costs. Once there, sure hotel prices have shot up but mid-range tourists spending $70-100 a night on accommodation spend much the same as in Bangkok. Nearly everything else is cheap and aside from car rental, Myanmar is still quite cheap by developed country standards.

[Tomtomtom69]

Nobody here ever visited Mae Sai or Mae Sot then.

Not Burma, but near as dam_n it.

I have been to both, and have been a regular in Mae Sot over the past 9 months although I don't need to visit anymore these days as my projects in the region have finished. Much of the entertainment industry there is staffed by Burmese, many from areas previously off-limits to foreigners such as Kawkareik in Kayin State, located about 50km west of Mae Sot. These girls obviously fled fighting in the area to find a better life in Thailand, but instead became karaoke hostesses and prostitutes etc. By comparison, Myawaddy just across the border is completely sterile and boring, with almost no evidence of any prostitution or anything like that. With far more demand on the Thai side, clearly all of that scene has moved across the border.

I am surprised by the notion that karaoke, short stay hotels etc. are actually common in Yangon and that there is a fear that Burma/Myanmar could turn into another Thailand.

My two cents is that the previous military government was not keen on allowing this to happen, nor is the current administration. They are very concerned about what the world thinks of them and continue to think in completely different terms to their Thai counterparts. Case in point: the restive Thai Muslim majority 3 southernmost provinces do not prevent foreigners from traveling there, despite the danger to life. These days a number of regions of Myanmar where fighting previously occurred could be considered safe, but have not been accessible to foreigners so far, with concerns that if foreigners were to encounter problems in those areas, the government would look very bad in the eyes of the world. Therefore, the government is only slowly and cautiously opening such areas to tourists.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Tomtomtom69

[DagonKhan]

In response to the title of this thread, yes Myanmar can. It's far too expensive for people to come here as it is, they'll just go to Thailand.

On a more serious note, there was very little prior to U.S. sanctions. As with any city there were the usual haunts and a few international hotels which had (and still have) a number of prostitutes in their bars. All of that paled into insignificance after the U.S. sanctions. Tens of thousands of girls working in the garment factories found themselves with no work. Almost overnight KTV joints sprang up all over the place, hundreds of them. They all cater to the local market though. It's big business here already, many of the hotels are commonly known as 'short stay' hotels, almost none of this has anything to do with foreigners, they've managed that all by themselves. When I think of Yangon, I don't think that anywhere I could live would be more than 400 metres from either a KTV, a short stay hotel or some of the other well known places that offer a 'dual' service.

What do you mean by "far too expensive for people to come as it is". No it isn't. There are an increasing number of direct flights from Europe, the middle East etc. to Myanmar (mainly Yangon) thus eliminating the need to transit in Bangkok and cutting costs. Once there, sure hotel prices have shot up but mid-range tourists spending $70-100 a night on accommodation spend much the same as in Bangkok. Nearly everything else is cheap and aside from car rental, Myanmar is still quite cheap by developed country standards.

I think you need to note the 'wink' smiley and then read the first line of the second paragraph.....

[hyperdimension]

This article is so biased.

Sex tourism is not necessarily a "curse". What's so wrong with tourists who, among doing other things (e.g. sightseeing), engage in such a natural and instinctive act as sexual intercourse with the local population? Other animal species do it. Shouldn't humans?

Where there is demand, there is likely to be supply to cater for it.

[MrRealDeal]

Only if good looking girls with poor educations can make enough money doing something else ..... so the answer is No

[blackion]

Agree, why to call it a curse?

Absolutely natural thing. It has been in this world since the days of creation. So like in Myanmar it's a curse, but in any other country in the world it's not. Hehe

[Tomtomtom69]

Agree, why to call it a curse?

Absolutely natural thing. It has been in this world since the days of creation. So like in Myanmar it's a curse, but in any other country in the world it's not. Hehe

I think what they are implying is that the sex trade is a curse, due to the many shady and even dangerous elements that go along with it. Other countries, very much open to mass tourism, such as Laos and Vietnam have largely been able to prevent a large scale sex industry from emerging unlike in the case of Thailand. This has resulted in some strange laws being applied, some of which may seem discriminatory, but overall they have managed to avoid being associated with sex unlike Thailand.

[JimsKnight]

Agree, why to call it a curse?

Absolutely natural thing. It has been in this world since the days of creation. So like in Myanmar it's a curse, but in any other country in the world it's not. Hehe

Exactly. A lot of the sterile heads seem to forget the working-girls of Thailand (in all their shades and professions) made Thailand what it is today with regards to low-to-medium foreign investment.

I don't know if the Burmese girls can actually make the same thing happen and there be a tourist boom like Thailand experienced.

If it's one thing I've noticed with western-colonializm it is that the sexuality of the native people is typically subdued. With the exception of the PI which is a special case entirely as it was only half-heartedly colonized.

[sabaijai]

Myanmar already has a large-scale sex-trade industry. The writer of this article makes the faulty assumption that sex tourism kickstarts the sex trade when in fact it only extends it to another (more visible) market. Local experts in Thailand estimate that only around 5 percent of all total sex-trade transactions involve foreign tourists. The percentage is probably lower in Myanmar, but if it expands, is it likely to exceed that? Probably not.

[Mangosteen1]

Sooner or later its going to happen. if not in Capital or central Burma then along the Thai borders probably.

I visited Burma Recently. in The Capital Rangoon, Yangoon(I read earlier in the Lonely Planet book that it probably is the safest city or capital in South East Asia.

It is as a Muslim guy in down town told me when we shared a pot of tea: Yangoon its safety but not freedom.

that just walking on the street at night. so safe by the way. Met many interesting people. a guy(Pimp) as me if I wanted girls. I said no.

He told me they are 16 years old like it would have better effect. it had the opposite on me. anyway the guy said that he didn't have any customers or work today. we started to chat a bit. I was a bit bored. and wanted to see the lake. he told me that he could show me. so the pimp became my guide haha. we went to the lake and he explain a lot from a criminal but honest mind. chewing that tobacco(I wasn't used to it I do not even smoke cigarettes)

Very very friendly and interesting people and such a diversity: The Union of Myanmar. I also traveled around with a Burmese friend living abroad.

Sex Tourism: Its coming. But The Burmese can not be compared to Thai or others. or lets say Burmese society or government whatever. not yet.

Even Massage is not allowed yet(By the Military-Junta) I think. I had been backpacking a lot and needed a massage(with my clothes on) that kind of massage.

But I couldn't find any. hmm what more. Major disco-clubs in Yangoon a guy told me: When you go inside the Disco you will see bar ladies.

I never went, I traveled around the Country seeing, Tempels and Beaches. and what Beaches(The Beach Movie style) Wide beaches, long. full of palm trees and rain-forest. coconuts. no roads yet, they are coming slowly. I drove my motorbike along the beaches for hours. no end just my gasoline ended but thats an other story

[buffalobob]

Prostitution is everywhere in Yangon, its just not so in your face as Pattaya, Patpong or Ratchada. But believe me it's there. Apart from JJ's it's pretty much invisible. There's the emperor on Shwedagon Pagoda Rd, and some hotel somewhere in Ahlone for the Chinese but they're quite discreet. All the nightclubs are frequented by sex workers as are all the posh hotels, however Myanmar people will very rarely use these ladies as they are way too expensive. 30000 to 50000 for a white guy and anything up to 150000 for Japanese /Korean/Chinese guys.

The locals use call outs for about 20000 or San Francisco night club in Tamwe. If you drive through San Chaung late at night you'll see rows of taxis parked up with girls in the back.

I really doubt it will get like Thailand any time soon though.

(This is all according to my mate ;-))

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

[snake24]

Sooner or later its going to happen. if not in Capital or central Burma then along the Thai borders probably.

I visited Burma Recently. in The Capital Rangoon, Yangoon(I read earlier in the Lonely Planet book that it probably is the safest city or capital in South East Asia.

It is as a Muslim guy in down town told me when we shared a pot of tea: Yangoon its safety but not freedom.

that just walking on the street at night. so safe by the way. Met many interesting people. a guy(Pimp) as me if I wanted girls. I said no.

He told me they are 16 years old like it would have better effect. it had the opposite on me. anyway the guy said that he didn't have any customers or work today. we started to chat a bit. I was a bit bored. and wanted to see the lake. he told me that he could show me. so the pimp became my guide haha. we went to the lake and he explain a lot from a criminal but honest mind. chewing that tobacco(I wasn't used to it I do not even smoke cigarettes)

Very very friendly and interesting people and such a diversity: The Union of Myanmar. I also traveled around with a Burmese friend living abroad.

Sex Tourism: Its coming. But The Burmese can not be compared to Thai or others. or lets say Burmese society or government whatever. not yet.

Even Massage is not allowed yet(By the Military-Junta) I think. I had been backpacking a lot and needed a massage(with my clothes on) that kind of massage.

But I couldn't find any. hmm what more. Major disco-clubs in Yangoon a guy told me: When you go inside the Disco you will see bar ladies.

I never went, I traveled around the Country seeing, Tempels and Beaches. and what Beaches(The Beach Movie style) Wide beaches, long. full of palm trees and rain-forest. coconuts. no roads yet, they are coming slowly. I drove my motorbike along the beaches for hours. no end just my gasoline ended but thats an other story

Seriously yangoon can beat singapore in safety?

[snake24]

Prostitution is everywhere in Yangon, its just not so in your face as Pattaya, Patpong or Ratchada. But believe me it's there. Apart from JJ's it's pretty much invisible. There's the emperor on Shwedagon Pagoda Rd, and some hotel somewhere in Ahlone for the Chinese but they're quite discreet. All the nightclubs are frequented by sex workers as are all the posh hotels, however Myanmar people will very rarely use these ladies as they are way too expensive. 30000 to 50000 for a white guy and anything up to 150000 for Japanese /Korean/Chinese guys.

The locals use call outs for about 20000 or San Francisco night club in Tamwe. If you drive through San Chaung late at night you'll see rows of taxis parked up with girls in the back.

I really doubt it will get like Thailand any time soon though.

(This is all according to my mate ;-))

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Why is it more expensive for the foreign asians?

[buffalobob]

I'm not too sure why it's more expensive for foreign Asians but my guess would be that that's what they are prepared to pay.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

[FiftyTwo]

Agree, why to call it a curse?

Absolutely natural thing. It has been in this world since the days of creation. So like in Myanmar it's a curse, but in any other country in the world it's not. Hehe

I think what they are implying is that the sex trade is a curse, due to the many shady and even dangerous elements that go along with it. Other countries, very much open to mass tourism, such as Laos and Vietnam have largely been able to prevent a large scale sex industry from emerging unlike in the case of Thailand. This has resulted in some strange laws being applied, some of which may seem discriminatory, but overall they have managed to avoid being associated with sex unlike Thailand.

Not to do with the country, to do with communism.

Sex is one of the things communism tries to repress.

[RigPig]

This is a bit off topic but I have always wondered if women from Myanmar have the same "attitude" as their Thai counterparts (yes the lying conniving ones).

I know it's a bit of a generalization but I've actually had a couple of Thai guys (friends) suggest looking there, one is married to a lady from Myanmar and he reckons it was the best thing he did, as Thai women can't generally be trusted and want too much. He keeps telling me he "loves his darling".

Do Myanmar women stand by and look after their man? Are they demanding or happy with their lot in life (unlike any Thai GF I have had) ?

You quite often read about Lao, Cambodian and Vietnamese women but I haven't seen much about the ladies from Myanmar.

A post about courtship on another thread made me remember it used to be like that in Thailand, but that has changed.............

[RigPig]

Think I'll start a new thread on this, could be interesting..........

[wileycoyote]

Interesting thread