The Word 'farang"

[george]

In another thread on this froum a member asked:

"Thaivisa editor, why the constant use of the appelation "Farang"? Surely by now you are aware of its derogatory context in Thailand - if they are westerners call them that."

What do you think? Vote in our poll and discuss!

[tutsiwarrior]

if you are acquainted with a person and they know your name (like your thai wife's relatives) and you hear them refer to you as falang then yeah, no good.

[meemiathai]

Could this member pls translate "westerner" to Thai for me?

And could he pls explain why he thinks the word "farang" is derogatory?

Any history about the word?

[meemiathai]

  tutsiwarrior said:

if you are acquainted with a person and they know your name (like your thai wife's relatives) and you hear them refer to you as falang then yeah, no good.

Most if not all my wife's relatives, and friends in HK refer to me as farang. I think it is a bit difficult sometimes for them to remember an english name.

[Bluecat]

  meemiathai said:

Could this member pls translate "westerner" to Thai for me?

And could he pls explain why he thinks the word "farang" is derogatory?

Any history about the word?

It seems farang has quite a long history,...

  Quote

There has been considerable continuing interest in this term which

originated from Germanic 'Frank' and spread through Muslim trade routes

after the Crusades into Africa, India, and Southeast Asia. In my last

posting (LINGUIST List:  Vol-4-459. Tue 15 Jun 1993) various people had

given these varying forms:

In a general "West" to "East" progression:

"frangos" ("Westerner") - Greek

"ifrangi" - Greek ("Latins (Catholics)", Turkish, Arabic

"frang" "a European" and "frangiya" "The Country of the Franks; Western

Europe; Latin language or church" - Syriac, the classical Aramaic

(Semitic) language used in some Middle Eastern Christian churches,

"afrangui" - In Arabic (in Egypt and in some North African countries)

"ifranji" or "franji" - Arabic dialects

"faranji" - Arabic, "farangi" -  Egyptian

"ifranji" (nom masculin singulier, "ifranj" or "ifranjiyine" au pluriel -

  Arabic "ifranji (pl., more precisely collective) "ifranj" 'European',

"firanja" "Land of the Franks, Europe" - Modern Standard Arabic

"afrang,faranj, ferang, ferangi" - Modern Persian

"feringhi" - Persian

"farengi, farangi, pirangi" (Tamil version) etc.- Dravidian in India

"farangi" - Malayalam (borrowed from Portuguese in 16th century)

"farang" ("Westerner") in Thai

"barang" - Cambodian

"farang" - Thai from Persian "farangg" in 16th century(?)

"pha-rang", "pha-lang-xa" - formerly Vietnamese

"barang" - Bahasa Indonesia (reduplicated) "goods", "stuff" things such as

  might be brought by traders

"paalagi/papalangi/vaalagi/papa-'aa" - Samoan

[Bluecat]

  meemiathai said:

And could he pls explain why he thinks the word "farang" is derogatory?

Farang can be derogatory and non derogatory depending on the context,...

Examples:

- Farang kii nok, derogatory

- Farang djai dee, non derogatory

[tutsiwarrior]

bluecat...re: your 'quote' and bahasa-Indonesia; foreigners (white folks) are called 'bule'...

a barang is a 'thing'...looks like some consonants got mixed somewhere...

professor tutsi

[markt]

  meemiathai said:

Most if not all my wife's relatives, and friends in HK refer to me as farang. I think it is a bit difficult sometimes for them to remember an english name.

And a German one, Dutch one, French one, Swedish one.......

They probably don't care/can't be arsed remembering what the name is.

[Moving]

"farang"

Means someone that is not Thai...that we are different. To some, that we do not belong...to some as a source of income...someone to be taken advantage of (easy pickings)...someone in Thailand to take advantage of Thai's, making it OK for Thai's to do what ever they can get away with because they are a "farang".

I have noticed that my Thai friends and associates that are not closely aligned to the bars and the related industry use "farang" on a VERY limited basis...if they are talking about a German than they say German, an American, than they say an American and so on.

[MissinThailand]

it's not meant to be something bad. It's meant to mean like American or something.

[tutsiwarrior]

moving...yeah, there is something exclusionary about the use of falang.

It can be hurtful when someone who has addressed you by your name is later overheard referring to you as falang. It is disrespectful.

[snowleopard]

  Quote

What do you think? Vote in our poll and discuss!

Hi there Farang folks,

I've been living for twenty years here in Thailand.

I think I speak Thai fluently and can read and write it too.

Many years ago,I used to be a bit paranoid and think the term was derogatory but I don't think so anymore.

People call me "Khun Farang","Pii Farang",and "Khru Farang" while giving a polite wai and a smile.

I can't detect any bad intentions or hidden meanings so I always feel fine when they say it directly to me.

My shop is called "Rahn Farang" and my house is "Bahn Farang".

My German Shepherd is called "Sonak Tham-Roat Korng Farang".(The Farang's Police Dog)

I've heard many theories about the Farang etymon.

The answer might be as simple as that they were just trying to pronounce "foreign";or,because Laos,Cambodia and Vietnam used to be colonies of "Farang-set"( i.e.France;the land of Franks)

If somebody shouts,"Farang bah" then it isn't polite at all;unless, they're joking or shooting a Farang movie!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[tutsiwarrior]

how about 'falang, <deleted> you' that country folks when drunk like to yell not understanding that it is not a greeting...

[Moving]

Appears to be a very broad and generalized term that often means more in the context of the conversation/discussion and the circumstance(s).

When with Thai friends I have been called a "farang" ,jokingly, and have never taken offense...Perhaps behind my back, but never to my face have I been refered to or called a "farang" in a hostile or negative way...I am normally introduced by name and, if appropriate, my nationality.

I know it happens but I really beleive that most Thai's would not be openly disrespectful...

I have overheard conversations like this "He good (or Cheap Charlie) 'farang' customer ...Ka, {and then the breakdown, He from....US, Brit, French and so on}"

[Zendesigner]

The term farang being derogatory or racist?

You are looking to far ...

80 percent of the thais have no idea about the concept of racism.

Nor do they have an idea of respectfull distance in certain places. (banks for example)

Nor do they have an idea about cutting in lines in front of other people is being unpolite.

They totally have no idea of respect for others in this sense, no idea that they might hurt the feelings of other people when they say stuff like farang.

Most asian have this property.

I recently watched a talk show on Hongkong TV " why are chinese so unrespectfull"

they talked about spitting, blowing your nose in your hands , standing in the full subway with newspapers , ect..; in short no respect for others...

How many times have you gotten out of an elevator in thailand without some people outside trying to get in first ???

I'm 120 kg so after a while i just decided to WALK OVER THEM when i get out if they come near me.

Suddennly you get e very schocked thai realizing that maybe his actions weren't the best idea !!

So don't start thinking to much in western principles. They just don't know the difference.

For them it's just another word.

B

[markt]

  snowleopard said:

People call me "Khun Farang","Pii Farang".

Yeah, i've had this too.

[MissinThailand]

I'm Thai, I speak Thai. Trust me, the term 'farang' is not meant to be used as something bad. Like someone says, farang is kinda like someone who's not Thai. Someone who is white. My family here in New York uses it once in a while and when I went to Thailand last summer, they used it too. They even called me farang ina joking manner cause I was in America. Its not anything horrible. Zendesigner, what in gods green earth, are you talking about? You must be an the Thai expert. We don't know racism? respect? ok buddy...you're so much better than us because ur a 'farang'

[Spee]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."

Don't know who said it, but in Thai or any other language, it's still "sticks & stones."

I've been called that name, but it doesn't bother me. I just smile.

[britmaveric]

Dunno does "crazy ferang" count? Seriously though don't mind the word at all- kind of use it myself, and think its part of the crack!

[Axel]

Derogatory?

No. Unless spoken with contempt, but than this is true for any other 'title'.

[pnustedt]

No problem.

In HK they call us gweihlos - roughly translated meaning ghostly old men!

[Mig15]

My understanding is that the word farang came form the French traders that came to Thailand hundreds of years ago. As an Englishman I find it incredibly offensive to be called French!

[plachon]

  meemiathai said:

Could this member pls translate "westerner" to Thai for me?

And could he pls explain why he thinks the word "farang" is derogatory?

Any history about the word?

How about "khon dta-wan tok"? Bit of a mouthful, agreed, but it means Westerner more accurately than farang, which is applied to only those who look Caucasian. A southern European Greek for example, might be referred to as "kaek" due to the dark skin and black hair, and Colin Powell might be referred to as "khon dam" or "khon Africa", but Tiger Woods is identified as "Thai", even though he can't speak the lingo and has only set foot here about 3 or 4 times. LOL.

The bottom line is "farang" is a totally contextual term, and can be derogatory or not. Hence, I haven't bothered with the meaningless poll. If I think it's use is inappropriate then I'll often tell the person and make them confront their own prejudice often to a blank incomprehending stare. However, next time they meet me, they are generally more careful with throwing "farang" about, and some have even become quite polite.

[bmanly]

I can't believe no one has said it. What's the differece to us using the gerneralization of the word Asians? Same thing, it's how it is used. IE: Bloody Asians all drive fancy cars (offensive) or Asians are really nice people (nice). Now if you were Asian and a shop assistant says, "All you Asians are the same" you might feel pretty upset, same as if a Thai said "All farangs bah". To me I am a Farang and Thai are Asians whats the problem?

[the gentleman]

I would have to say that the majority of "farangs" in this country are chinese - but the chinese/Thai forget where they are from, when calling us Farangs...

I suppose this poses another question - when is a Farang a Thai?

[bmanly]

When is an Asian an Australian?

Kids born here to Asian parents still get labled Asian

[the gentleman]

yes you are right mate - I have two half Malay/Australian cousins - they were born in Aus, but still get the Asian label, thats why I asked the last question.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

  the gentleman said:

I would have to say that the majority of "farangs" in this country are chinese - but the chinese/Thai forget where they are from, when calling us Farangs...

I suppose this poses another question - when is a Farang a Thai?

Never Gentleman .... a farang is a white western person

[samran]

  Zendesigner said:

The term farang being derogatory or racist?

You are looking to far ...

80 percent of the thais have no idea about the concept of racism.

Nor do they have an idea of respectfull distance in certain places. (banks for example)

Nor do they have an idea about cutting in lines in front of other people is being unpolite.

They totally have no idea of respect for others in this sense, no idea that they might hurt the feelings of other people when they say stuff like farang.

Most asian have this property.

I recently watched a talk show on Hongkong TV " why are chinese so unrespectfull"

they talked about spitting, blowing your nose in your hands , standing in the full subway with newspapers , ect..; in short no respect for others...

How many times have you gotten out of an elevator in thailand without some people outside trying to get in first ???

I'm 120 kg so after a while i just decided to WALK OVER THEM when i get out if they come near me.

Suddennly you get e very schocked thai realizing that maybe his actions weren't the best idea !!

So don't start thinking to much in western principles. They just don't know the difference.

For them it's just another word.

B

Zen,

You can't be the same guy I was butting heads with last week. I agree 95%.

Just one quibble, its not not that there is no respect for others, its just that respect is usually expressed in totally different ways that aren't apparent to westerners. When that happens (usually in a more personal or family situation), I'll argue that the respect Thais show for each other is usually pretty good. I don't think there are too many western boys who would go into the monkhood so his mum can have more merit in the next life.

I personally think that sometimes the way westerners (with the possible exeption of new yorkers and isreali's) show "respect" to each other in public is pretty superficial - although stuff like queuing etc does make things work alot more efficiently - life is also makes life pretty boring.

It cuts both ways. Thai people have a remarkably relaxed attitude to foreigners ways of doing things, based on the concept of "they don't know...lets not get too stressed about it". In the same way, westerners shouldn't get worked up about the whole "farang" word thing (unless as someone pointed out, it is used in situation where the person knows you and should know better).

Its a bit like when farangs come here, they have no idea about pointing feet at people, looking scruffy and dirty, standing/being in a higher position than an elder, about not wai'ing, who should pay and when, touching someones head, smooching in the street...etc. Thais are pretty good about turning a slightly embarrased blind eye to it.

BTW, I personally like the barge through tactic coming out of the lift/skytrain.

[snowleopard]

  Quote

farang is kinda like someone who's not Thai

I'm proud of being a Thai Farang!

I'm out of the closet now!

Cheers!

Snowleopard.