Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[chuckd]

It seems bizarre that you have many in the security agencies and US government calling for life imprisonment of Snowden, but to date the US has not issued an international warrant for Snowden's arrest. Putting aside the rights and wrongs, can anyone provide a reasonable explanation why

maybe because his case is handled in secret courts? What a mess ...

How to pass secret court rulings to official courts? ... unless he is proven guilty a secret court won't stand I think, but he's in grave danger.

I also can see the secret courts will be thrown out by the high court now. In meanwhile the smear campaign to find official court rulings for an warrant is in full swing. But will it happen?

at the other hand I believe that there is a higher %age within the agencies, to have Snowden his way of public hearing, than in the major public. They want to be set free too and the public is usually screwed to control them so to speak. Those who set that up forgot maybe one thing, that the cleaning comes from within.

Snowden would be tried in open court, same as every other traitor or double agent has been. Talking about "secret courts" trying him is off the wall, not in contact with reality baloney. Neither is the Fisa court a star chamber as no one is charged, arranged, indicted or physically brought there to be tried for a specific violation of law. Fisa was enacted by the Congress and signed into law by a previous president, in 1978. No one has challenged Fisa before the Supreme Court.

NSA and all of the other national security agencies always need Congressional oversight and the vigilance of the president himself. There are however people with views that concern me more than anything the NSA does that we task it to do.

Secret courts! What secret courts?! When? Where? Whom?

Just for the record, FISA was approved and signed into law by the Democratic Carter Administration...just like the Community Reinvestment Act which led to the housing bubble of 2008.

By the way, Snowden is an alleged traitor until he might be charged by a Federal Grand Jury and tried and convicted in a Federal court, not on Thai Visa.

[chuckd]

Just picked this up off the internet:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants

by Declan McCullagh June 15, 2013 4:39 PM PDT

The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed this week that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."

If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.

Read more here: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-admits-listening-to-u.s-phone-calls-without-warrants/

Edited June 16, 2013 by Scott
edited for fair use

[JDGRUEN]

IN MY OPINION:

Snowden and his actions are the symptoms of a problem - a big one. Snowden in and of himself is a small problem. The NSA can tighten ranks and basically eliminate new Snowdens. Therefore obsessing about Snowden is not the solution to the problem. The justice system will handle him at some point.

The PROBLEM is a government that has run amok by vastly overreaching in communications surveillance. I believe Americans want surveillance of foreign agents, potential and known terrorist, and other bad actors who might bring harm to the U.S. I further believe that the greater majority of Americans do not want the NSA to sift through every phone call and email and web post of nearly every American to achieve a security goal. It does not have to be done in such a wholesale fashion. After all the Boston Bombers basically fell right through the gigantic NSA sifter. I have read that Mosque and Muslims are exempt from NSA surveillance. If true - not only is it ridiculous - but it is an outrage.

President obama has made a great deal about Congress not acting on various issues and he has said 'I'll go around Congress' and words to that effect. obama has signed many Executive orders going around Congress such as the one going around the lack of a Dream Act, and not enforcing much of any law regarding Border Security - which by the way is strangely contradictory - lax border security at the same time of overreach on communications surveillance. In this regard, obama could have at any time executed an Executive order limiting the scope of the NSA - and given orders for the NSA to enforce it. Instead obama increased the scope of NSA surveillance or allowed unsupervised Mission Creep to take place neither of which is laudable.

I believe the future will be an electorate bringing pressure to bear on Congress - and actions will be forthcoming to limit the scope of the laws allowing such broad scale snooping into the lives of Americans. A big reason for this - other than the unsavory idea that the government is spying on nearly every citizen is the obvious temptation for GREATER government misuse of the capability. With such broad scale sifting taking place - the communications of members of Congress, of members of SCOTUS, of State Governors and of political opposition could easily take place. This could result in blackmailing and coercion of high ranking members of government. Americans do not want a tyrannical government and we are fast approaching that.

Edited June 16, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[Publicus]

59% Oppose Governments Secret Collecting of Phone Records

Sunday, June 09, 2013

Most voters oppose the U.S. governments secret collection of the phone records of millions of Americans and think the feds are spying too much on U.S. citizens these days. Just 26% of Likely U.S. Voters favor the governments secret collecting of these phone records for national security purposes regardless of whether there is any suspicion of wrongdoing.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/june_2013/59_oppose_government_s_secret_collecting_of_phone_records

It does suck, but crap like Facebook is worse than the government. I don't even use Facebook anymore and yet my iPhone, photos and a business I used to own mentioned on Facebook, associated with an old phone number nonetheless, pops up or is associated with this line.

You linked to Rasmussen. You're in deep trouble now.

Yes, I know (I've been told)... but I do it on purpose. Because it is a reliable source - if one seeks fairness not built in bias.

Neither you nor I have to wonder about the POV of the other.

Republicans oppose, Democrats support NSA surveillance, poll says

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-republicans-democrats-nsa-poll-20130612,0,2973289.story

One finding that has shown up in several current surveys that vary in their bottom line data has been a split between Republicans and Democrats on the issue.

With President Obama in the White House, Democrats stand in support of the NSA’s methods, 49% to 40% in the Gallup survey. Republicans were opposed 63% to 32%. When President George W. Bush was in office, Republicans were supportive of the government's warrantless surveillance efforts and Democrats opposed.

Part of that shift may reflect the fact that on an issue in which many of the facts remain classified, members of the public are more willing to trust the judgment of an administration they support overall. There also is a lack of clarity between the two issues that have been publicized nearly simultaneously, the individual phone surveillance and the corporate PRISM program.

However, the same partisan divide remains in the debate on whether the man responsible for the leaks exposing NSA practices, Edward Snowden, was right in his actions. Democrats, by 49% to 39%, say Snowden, a former NSA contractor, was wrong to leak classified information to the Guardian and the Washington Post, according to Gallup. Among Republicans, the numbers were reversed, 49% saying he was right and 38% saying he was wrong.

What seems to have been partisan support for the warrantless goose seems nonetheless to be equally as politically good for the legal activities of the court abiding gander.

[JDGRUEN]

Snowden: UK Intel Spied on G20 Summit Officials’ Phone Calls, Emails

The British government spied on politicians and officials who participated in two G20 summit meetings in London in 2009, the Guardian reports. UK intelligence agencies monitored the G20 participants’ computers and intercepted their phone calls, according to documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden and seen by the Guardian.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/16/snowden-uk-intel-spied-on-g20-summit-officials-phone-calls-emails/

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.

Stay on topic.

[Publicus]

IN MY OPINION:

Snowden and his actions are the symptoms of a problem - a big one. Snowden in and of himself is a small problem. The NSA can tighten ranks and basically eliminate new Snowdens. Therefore obsessing about Snowden is not the solution to the problem. The justice system will handle him at some point.

The PROBLEM is a government that has run amok by vastly overreaching in communications surveillance. I believe Americans want surveillance of foreign agents, potential and known terrorist, and other bad actors who might bring harm to the U.S. I further believe that the greater majority of Americans do not want the NSA to sift through every phone call and email and web post of nearly every American to achieve a security goal. It does not have to be done in such a wholesale fashion. After all the Boston Bombers basically fell right through the gigantic NSA sifter. I have read that Mosque and Muslims are exempt from NSA surveillance. If true - not only is it ridiculous - but it is an outrage.

President obama has made a great deal about Congress not acting on various issues and he has said 'I'll go around Congress' and words to that effect. obama has signed many Executive orders going around Congress such as the one going around the lack of a Dream Act, and not enforcing much of any law regarding Border Security - which by the way is strangely contradictory - lax border security at the same time of overreach on communications surveillance. In this regard, obama could have at any time executed an Executive order limiting the scope of the NSA - and given orders for the NSA to enforce it. Instead obama increased the scope of NSA surveillance or allowed unsupervised Mission Creep to take place neither of which is laudable.

I believe the future will be an electorate bringing pressure to bear on Congress - and actions will be forthcoming to limit the scope of the laws allowing such broad scale snooping into the lives of Americans. A big reason for this - other than the unsavory idea that the government is spying on nearly every citizen is the obvious temptation for GREATER government misuse of the capability. With such broad scale sifting taking place - the communications of members of Congress, of members of SCOTUS, of State Governors and of political opposition could easily take place. This could result in blackmailing and coercion of high ranking members of government. Americans do not want a tyrannical government and we are fast approaching that.

I'm impressed.

I know you don't give a rat's arse what I think or say, but that's good stuff up there.

It's also quintessential American in its expository style, i.e., strong, strident, unambiguous, Manichean.

[wealth]

Snowden: UK Intel Spied on G20 Summit Officials’ Phone Calls, Emails

The British government spied on politicians and officials who participated in two G20 summit meetings in London in 2009, the Guardian reports. UK intelligence agencies monitored the G20 participants’ computers and intercepted their phone calls, according to documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden and seen by the Guardian.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/16/snowden-uk-intel-spied-on-g20-summit-officials-phone-calls-emails/

well their job is to keep their sheeple leaders in line for the top of the prism/pyramid. This is just another link and hint towards this development unfolding.

In the US we see the dems and the reps split now.

Obama was probably told by little Queeny, when he holidayed there to obey, or was even subject to occult ceremonies.

[metisdead]

A totally off topic post has been removed.

[manarak]

IN MY OPINION:

Snowden and his actions are the symptoms of a problem - a big one. Snowden in and of himself is a small problem. The NSA can tighten ranks and basically eliminate new Snowdens. Therefore obsessing about Snowden is not the solution to the problem. The justice system will handle him at some point.

The PROBLEM is a government that has run amok by vastly overreaching in communications surveillance. I believe Americans want surveillance of foreign agents, potential and known terrorist, and other bad actors who might bring harm to the U.S. I further believe that the greater majority of Americans do not want the NSA to sift through every phone call and email and web post of nearly every American to achieve a security goal. It does not have to be done in such a wholesale fashion. After all the Boston Bombers basically fell right through the gigantic NSA sifter. I have read that Mosque and Muslims are exempt from NSA surveillance. If true - not only is it ridiculous - but it is an outrage.

President obama has made a great deal about Congress not acting on various issues and he has said 'I'll go around Congress' and words to that effect. obama has signed many Executive orders going around Congress such as the one going around the lack of a Dream Act, and not enforcing much of any law regarding Border Security - which by the way is strangely contradictory - lax border security at the same time of overreach on communications surveillance. In this regard, obama could have at any time executed an Executive order limiting the scope of the NSA - and given orders for the NSA to enforce it. Instead obama increased the scope of NSA surveillance or allowed unsupervised Mission Creep to take place neither of which is laudable.

I believe the future will be an electorate bringing pressure to bear on Congress - and actions will be forthcoming to limit the scope of the laws allowing such broad scale snooping into the lives of Americans. A big reason for this - other than the unsavory idea that the government is spying on nearly every citizen is the obvious temptation for GREATER government misuse of the capability. With such broad scale sifting taking place - the communications of members of Congress, of members of SCOTUS, of State Governors and of political opposition could easily take place. This could result in blackmailing and coercion of high ranking members of government. Americans do not want a tyrannical government and we are fast approaching that.

I'm impressed.

I know you don't give a rat's arse what I think or say, but that's good stuff up there.

It's also quintessential American in its expository style, i.e., strong, strident, unambiguous, Manichean.

I'm puzzled why the word "manichaen" would apply to JDGruen's post?

[Publicus]

IN MY OPINION:

Snowden and his actions are the symptoms of a problem - a big one. Snowden in and of himself is a small problem. The NSA can tighten ranks and basically eliminate new Snowdens. Therefore obsessing about Snowden is not the solution to the problem. The justice system will handle him at some point.

The PROBLEM is a government that has run amok by vastly overreaching in communications surveillance. I believe Americans want surveillance of foreign agents, potential and known terrorist, and other bad actors who might bring harm to the U.S. I further believe that the greater majority of Americans do not want the NSA to sift through every phone call and email and web post of nearly every American to achieve a security goal. It does not have to be done in such a wholesale fashion. After all the Boston Bombers basically fell right through the gigantic NSA sifter. I have read that Mosque and Muslims are exempt from NSA surveillance. If true - not only is it ridiculous - but it is an outrage.

President obama has made a great deal about Congress not acting on various issues and he has said 'I'll go around Congress' and words to that effect. obama has signed many Executive orders going around Congress such as the one going around the lack of a Dream Act, and not enforcing much of any law regarding Border Security - which by the way is strangely contradictory - lax border security at the same time of overreach on communications surveillance. In this regard, obama could have at any time executed an Executive order limiting the scope of the NSA - and given orders for the NSA to enforce it. Instead obama increased the scope of NSA surveillance or allowed unsupervised Mission Creep to take place neither of which is laudable.

I believe the future will be an electorate bringing pressure to bear on Congress - and actions will be forthcoming to limit the scope of the laws allowing such broad scale snooping into the lives of Americans. A big reason for this - other than the unsavory idea that the government is spying on nearly every citizen is the obvious temptation for GREATER government misuse of the capability. With such broad scale sifting taking place - the communications of members of Congress, of members of SCOTUS, of State Governors and of political opposition could easily take place. This could result in blackmailing and coercion of high ranking members of government. Americans do not want a tyrannical government and we are fast approaching that.

I'm impressed.

I know you don't give a rat's arse what I think or say, but that's good stuff up there.

It's also quintessential American in its expository style, i.e., strong, strident, unambiguous, Manichean.

I'm puzzled why the word "manichaen" would apply to JDGruen's post?

The right wing forces of good vs the forces of evil, i.e., the government and the sheeple of the great political center-middle of the USA. The right wing and tea party etc are tne only force for good. The rest of us are evil Obama robots. The Christ and "anti-Christ" mentality of "good versus evil" of the Dark Ages.and beyond

He finally got away from most of that, but it's in his heart and ever present in his mind, as we can read in the post. I said I was impressed, but only because a different tact was taken but in the same boat, against the same competitors, towards the same finish line.

The tea party right wingers here have to start to disassociate themselves from the statement of another poster about the "anti-Christ" before any one of you can begin to gain any credibility.

[chuckd]

"The tea party right wingers here have to start to disassociate themselves from the statement of another poster about the "anti-Christ" before any one of you can begin to gain any credibility."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to the topic of the NSA leaks, here is an interesting turn of events for our readers...

GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians' communications at G20 summits

Exclusive: phones were monitored and fake internet cafes set up to gather information from allies in London in 2009

Ewen MacAskill, Nick Davies, Nick Hopkins, Julian Borger and James Ball

The Guardian, Sunday 16 June 2013 20.46 BST

Foreign politicians and officials who took part in two G20 summit meetings in London in 2009 had their computers monitored and their phone calls intercepted on the instructions of their British government hosts, according to documents seen by the Guardian. Some delegates were tricked into using internet cafes which had been set up by British intelligence agencies to read their email traffic.

The revelation comes as Britain prepares to host another summit on Monday – for the G8 nations, all of whom attended the 2009 meetings which were the object of the systematic spying. It is likely to lead to some tension among visiting delegates who will want the prime minister to explain whether they were targets in 2009 and whether the exercise is to be repeated this week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/16/gchq-intercepted-communications-g20-summits

[Scott]

I think several posters are going to find themselves on a forced holiday shortly.

The topic is about Snowden and the NSA. It is not about partisan politics, the Democrats and the republicans.

Further attempts to derail the topic by asking/answering off-topic portions of posts will result in suspensions.

There is a PM function if you want to have a private conversation. There are also other forums for a more general discussion of politics.

[Scott]

"The tea party right wingers here have to start to disassociate themselves from the statement of another poster about the "anti-Christ" before any one of you can begin to gain any credibility."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to the topic of the NSA leaks, here is an interesting turn of events for our readers...

GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians' communications at G20 summits

Exclusive: phones were monitored and fake internet cafes set up to gather information from allies in London in 2009

Ewen MacAskill, Nick Davies, Nick Hopkins, Julian Borger and James Ball

The Guardian, Sunday 16 June 2013 20.46 BST

Foreign politicians and officials who took part in two G20 summit meetings in London in 2009 had their computers monitored and their phone calls intercepted on the instructions of their British government hosts, according to documents seen by the Guardian. Some delegates were tricked into using internet cafes which had been set up by British intelligence agencies to read their email traffic.

The revelation comes as Britain prepares to host another summit on Monday – for the G8 nations, all of whom attended the 2009 meetings which were the object of the systematic spying. It is likely to lead to some tension among visiting delegates who will want the prime minister to explain whether they were targets in 2009 and whether the exercise is to be repeated this week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/16/gchq-intercepted-communications-g20-summits

I am curious as to how this relates to the NSA. (Serious question, by the way).

[chuckd]

"The tea party right wingers here have to start to disassociate themselves from the statement of another poster about the "anti-Christ" before any one of you can begin to gain any credibility."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to the topic of the NSA leaks, here is an interesting turn of events for our readers...

GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians' communications at G20 summits

Exclusive: phones were monitored and fake internet cafes set up to gather information from allies in London in 2009

Ewen MacAskill, Nick Davies, Nick Hopkins, Julian Borger and James Ball

The Guardian, Sunday 16 June 2013 20.46 BST

Foreign politicians and officials who took part in two G20 summit meetings in London in 2009 had their computers monitored and their phone calls intercepted on the instructions of their British government hosts, according to documents seen by the Guardian. Some delegates were tricked into using internet cafes which had been set up by British intelligence agencies to read their email traffic.

The revelation comes as Britain prepares to host another summit on Monday – for the G8 nations, all of whom attended the 2009 meetings which were the object of the systematic spying. It is likely to lead to some tension among visiting delegates who will want the prime minister to explain whether they were targets in 2009 and whether the exercise is to be repeated this week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/16/gchq-intercepted-communications-g20-summits

I am curious as to how this relates to the NSA. (Serious question, by the way).

I did not use the photo from my linked article nor what was beneath the photo due to fair use policy. I will use it here as a way of explanation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Documents uncovered by the NSA whistleblower, Edward Snowden, reveal surveillance of G20 delegates' emails and BlackBerrys. Photograph: Guardian

Edited June 17, 2013 by chuckd

[Scott]

Thanks Chuckd, but I am wondering was this done by the NSA or was it done by the British gov't?

[simple1]

Thanks Chuckd, but I am wondering was this done by the NSA or was it done by the British gov't?

Also in the Guardian article it mentions activity by NSA during the summit meeting in London. Snowden must have had just amazing access to operational detail whilst at NSA

"A detailed report records the efforts of the NSA's intercept specialists at Menwith Hill in North Yorkshire to target and decode encrypted phone calls from London to Moscow which were made by the Russian president, Dmitry Medvedev, and other Russian delegates"

[chuckd]

Thanks Chuckd, but I am wondering was this done by the NSA or was it done by the British gov't?

This article is specifically on snooping by the British GCHQ providing information that ended up in the hands of the NSA.

The documents themselves were allegedly leaked to the Guardian by Snowden, according to the article.

The Guardian is basing their article on information leaked by Snowden alone.

[Scott]

Thanks for the info. Quite interesting.

[Asiantravel]

ooops ! Such an unhelpful remark after a harmonious meeting between Obama and the new Chinese leader just last week

Cheney hint Snowden is a Chinese spy 'sheer nonsense', says China

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1262929/cheney-hint-snowden-chinese-spy-sheer-nonsense-says-china

Edited June 17, 2013 by Asiantravel

[Publicus]

The Associated Press, which remains the most reliable news organization in the U.S., has published a lengthy and detailed biographical profile of Edward Snowden, which appears here under the headline given to it by Business Insider online, calling Snowden a "privacy fanatic."

Whatever Snowden may be in relation to privacy, the AP profile does reveal Snowden himself stretched the truth to the Guardian and the Washington Post about his embarrassing education credentials. The piece also shows how Snowden in January began plotting his release of classified documents, material and information, to include now the Chinese Communist Party, in Hong Kong.

Snowden grabbed the contract employee job with NSA to appoint himself personal guardian of our personal privacy and of the Constitution, which I think reveals an arrogance and an egocentrism I certainly would not take upon myself. That Snowden went to the left-wing anti-American newspaper, the Guardian, also is revealing.

As a former Secret Service agent last week said of Snowden, this high school dropout entered NSA as a contract employee who was the equivalent of a country bumpkin who comes to the big city and the real world to be shocked that governments spy on each other and on a certain type of person within their own countries.

If this were the famous, Academy Award winning movie Casablanca (1944), Snowden would be the tousled character played by Peter Lorre and the antithesis of Humphrey Bogart's admirable rogue American character, Rick. Snowden would not understand the complexity or sophistication of Claude Rains' Vichy French police prefect Capt Renault, and might even like the character of the Nazi Major Strasser (Conrad Veidt).

PORTRAIT OF THE LEAKER AS A YOUNG MAN: Edward Snowden Has Always Been A Privacy Fanatic

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-has-always-been-privacy-fanatic-2013-6#ixzz2WTocMemZ

[Publicus]

"The tea party right wingers here have to start to disassociate themselves from the statement of another poster about the "anti-Christ" before any one of you can begin to gain any credibility."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to the topic of the NSA leaks, here is an interesting turn of events for our readers...

GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians' communications at G20 summits

Exclusive: phones were monitored and fake internet cafes set up to gather information from allies in London in 2009

Ewen MacAskill, Nick Davies, Nick Hopkins, Julian Borger and James Ball

The Guardian, Sunday 16 June 2013 20.46 BST

Foreign politicians and officials who took part in two G20 summit meetings in London in 2009 had their computers monitored and their phone calls intercepted on the instructions of their British government hosts, according to documents seen by the Guardian. Some delegates were tricked into using internet cafes which had been set up by British intelligence agencies to read their email traffic.

The revelation comes as Britain prepares to host another summit on Monday – for the G8 nations, all of whom attended the 2009 meetings which were the object of the systematic spying. It is likely to lead to some tension among visiting delegates who will want the prime minister to explain whether they were targets in 2009 and whether the exercise is to be repeated this week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/16/gchq-intercepted-communications-g20-summits

I'm shocked - shocked - to see what we already know, i.e., that spying is going on this world.

Shocked! Shocked!!

[Steely Dan]

Thanks Chuckd, but I am wondering was this done by the NSA or was it done by the British gov't?

Also in the Guardian article it mentions activity by NSA during the summit meeting in London. Snowden must have had just amazing access to operational detail whilst at NSA

"A detailed report records the efforts of the NSA's intercept specialists at Menwith Hill in North Yorkshire to target and decode encrypted phone calls from London to Moscow which were made by the Russian president, Dmitry Medvedev, and other Russian delegates"

Hmmm,

I've actually been to the U.S establishment at Menwith hill. I was at school at the time and played against the U.S team in a local bridge league. We were waved past two security checks with ferocious looking guard dogs and barbed wire fences, the lot. I hope the NSA didn't intercept our messages concerning the mucky mags we found in the woods or the whole world might know. Whoops...

[FDog]

I for one, don't care who Snowden is, I don't care if it was Charles Manson who blew the whistle on this. Snowden's character is of no relevance at all. You are just trying to skirt the issue and that issue is what the NSA is doing.

Doing all this digging into Snowden's character does not detract from the issue of the NSA intercepting everyone's communications, whether they are possible terrorists or not.

Do you consider that if Snowden turns out to be a convicted mass murderer that this in anyway would change anyone's view that what the NSA is doing is wrong? Would they then think the NSA is ok in doing this? I couldn't care less if Pol Pot, Hitler etc revealed this information, the issue is the NSA.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Scott

[Loptr]

And still Publicus talks more crap. Stick to the subject and don't play the man.

Is it ok for the US govt to intercept anything and everything from citizens of another country?

If so, then you are happy that the Chinese also do the same. What is good for the goose........and don't feed us bullshit about the US govt being all about good in the world. We all know that is not true.

No one cares about what Assange did as a teenager, no one cares whether Snowden masturbated as a teenager, this isn't about what they did, it is about what the US govt is doing.

It's more about the national security of the United States and what Edward Snowden is providing to enemies of the United States.

The CCP-PRC is a 21st century fascist dictatorship that censors, indoctrinates and punishes its sheeple. The CCP--PRC is the only government of the world to have a Nobel Peace Laureate, Dr Liu Xiaobo (2010) in prison. Anyone who might try to equate the United States and the Chinese Communist Party's People's Republic of China is not in his right mind.

Why Edward Snowden is spilling U.S. secrets to China

http://news.yahoo.com/why-edward-snowden-spilling-u-secrets-china-070000923.html

Hong Kong Was an Odd Choice For NSA Leaker Edward Snowden

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/10/edward_snowden_leak_investigation_justice_department_announces_probe_of.html

Snowden Wrote 700-Plus Posts on Chat Boards About Everything From Government to Girls

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/13/edward_snowden_ars_technica_nsa_leaker_s_internet_commenting_past_uncovered.html

And you have written over 2300 posts on a chat forum about your twin obsessions, namely China and the right wing. Indeed you are posting so much diversionary nonsense it would appear people have given up replying to you and the mods have given up moderating you. Simply put, information released relating to Snowden's private online activities rather proves his point about the danger of the government misusing information gleaned. To an extent we can't roll the clock back on privacy, but the Obama administration is the most leaky and untrustworthy I can remember.

The ignore feature is wonderful. Give it a shot as it will reduce your stress levels by not having to read the nonsense coming out of left field.

[Loptr]

And still Publicus talks more crap. Stick to the subject and don't play the man.

Is it ok for the US govt to intercept anything and everything from citizens of another country?

If so, then you are happy that the Chinese also do the same. What is good for the goose........and don't feed us bullshit about the US govt being all about good in the world. We all know that is not true.

No one cares about what Assange did as a teenager, no one cares whether Snowden masturbated as a teenager, this isn't about what they did, it is about what the US govt is doing.

Yes, it is ok for the USA to intercept communications from citizens of another country if it means that an act of terror will be prevented. I really don't care of Abdul calling from Yemen gets his call intercepted by a software program looking for key words. The difference between the Chinese and the US methodology is that the US system has oversight and the legalities of the process are considered. I'll take the USA warts and all any day of the week over the Chinese military machine.

Assange is not the topic, although he must be delighted to be have another uneducated self appointed beacon of virtue to occupy his time. I'd like to know just how Snowden was able to afford his quick jet exit to Hong Kong and what is now turning into quite a lengthy stay in one of the most expensive cities in the world. The hotel where Snowden was staying wasn't a budget class hostel. Even a cheap hotel is $250+ a night. Where does a technical clerk get that kind of money?

How about when it comes down to monitoring diplomats communications during an international summit? How do you feel then?

As far as Snowdon's $$$, he was making $200,000 a year. You can pay for lots of hotel rooms on that income.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/16/gchq-intercepted-communications-g20-summits

GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians' communications at G20 summits

Foreign politicians and officials who took part in two G20 summit meetings in London in 2009 had their computers monitored and their phone calls intercepted on the instructions of their British government hosts, according to documents seen by the Guardian. Some delegates were tricked into using internet cafes which had been set up by British intelligence agencies to read their email traffic.

The revelation comes as Britain prepares to host another summit on Monday – for the G8 nations, all of whom attended the 2009 meetings which were the object of the systematic spying. It is likely to lead to some tension among visiting delegates who will want the prime minister to explain whether they were targets in 2009 and whether the exercise is to be repeated this week.

[JDGRUEN]

Monday, June 17, 2013 10:13 AM

Before Rendering to Caesar: Daily Readings

Blog.WilliamRussell.net

The NSA's New Ball of Wax

The scandal over the National Security Agency and the PRISM program disclosed by “whistle blower” Edward Snowden is similar. Whoever is responsible for Snowden's ball of wax being passed to the American people, has timed it perfectly. This story has broken at a time when Americans of all political views are already most distrustful of our government and has cemented in the minds of millions that our most capable spy agency is the enemy of our freedoms. Our enemies may have just achieved a fait accompli in the destruction of our intelligence communities.

http://www.williamrussell.net/

[lannarebirth]

Publicus, please do a quick analysis of Snowdon's situation when he had to plan his steps and try to think as he would have.

Supposing you had no ties with the PRC, what country would you pick to be safe from Uncle Sam's reach?

I say that HongKong is one of the few logical choices. In fact, I have difficulties finding a good alternative, except maybe Russia, but I would very much prefer HongKong.

Also, consider that Snowdown potentially had access to some information that helped him choose his destination.

Of course, a PRC connection is also possible.

But if there really is a PRC connection, so what? It doesn't change the reality of PRISM. Whether Snowdon is a PRC agent or paid by the PRC is a totally secondary issue that will not distract from the main point: the USA spying on everybody's lives.

Yes, I would go to Hong Kong.

I would go to Hong Kong bearing gifts of U.S. classified intelligence for the Chinese Communist Party if I were a traitor.

Going to HKG "bearing gifts" is material to the questions being brought forth because, if a traitor is involved, the likelihood would be great that much of what we are hearing about the NSA is overblown and not really directed at the NSA.

Someone in a previous post has already mentioned the "anti-Christ" as having the chief role in all of this. It's no stretch of imagination to ID who exactly the "anti-Christ" would be among the extreme right, the tea party gang especially.

What evidence do you have that Snowden has given specific gifts of US intelligence to the PRC? The fact that you say YOU would, does not make HIM a traitor.

Are you going to continue to post articles from Business Insider, run by Henry Blodgett the disgraced internet analyst? BTW, you should read the comments sections of those articles you post.

[lannarebirth]

The Associated Press, which remains the most reliable news organization in the U.S., has published a lengthy and detailed biographical profile of Edward Snowden, which appears here under the headline given to it by Business Insider online, calling Snowden a "privacy fanatic."

Whatever Snowden may be in relation to privacy, the AP profile does reveal Snowden himself stretched the truth to the Guardian and the Washington Post about his embarrassing education credentials. The piece also shows how Snowden in January began plotting his release of classified documents, material and information, to include now the Chinese Communist Party, in Hong Kong.

Snowden grabbed the contract employee job with NSA to appoint himself personal guardian of our personal privacy and of the Constitution, which I think reveals an arrogance and an egocentrism I certainly would not take upon myself. That Snowden went to the left-wing anti-American newspaper, the Guardian, also is revealing.

As a former Secret Service agent last week said of Snowden, this high school dropout entered NSA as a contract employee who was the equivalent of a country bumpkin who comes to the big city and the real world to be shocked that governments spy on each other and on a certain type of person within their own countries.

If this were the famous, Academy Award winning movie Casablanca (1944), Snowden would be the tousled character played by Peter Lorre and the antithesis of Humphrey Bogart's admirable rogue American character, Rick. Snowden would not understand the complexity or sophistication of Claude Rains' Vichy French police prefect Capt Renault, and might even like the character of the Nazi Major Strasser (Conrad Veidt).

PORTRAIT OF THE LEAKER AS A YOUNG MAN: Edward Snowden Has Always Been A Privacy Fanatic

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-has-always-been-privacy-fanatic-2013-6#ixzz2WTocMemZ

You probably don't even notice the hyperbolic language you post anymore, do you? Is it "fanaticism" to expect not to be spied on by your own government in contravention of societal norms and the US Constitution?

[lannarebirth]

You linked to Rasmussen. You're in deep trouble now.

All this big brother shit pisses me off regardless who is president and I have nothing to hide. This is why the DNA holding pissed me off because it just reflects how much of a slippery slope we are on and have been on for a while. I said over and over in 2002 ish that I would much prefer to live with that infinitesimal chance of being harmed by a nut nagger terrorist act on US soil than slowly but completely erode our way of life in the name of security or protection.

Candidly, Obama and some of the crap going on does piss me off right now. I don't care who set it in motion, he is responsible for shit on his watch. He seems a bit paralyzed and more concerned about legacy than making the difficult decisions. Perhaps there is legacy pressure being first black President, perhaps he is all talk or perhaps he is just confused.

Not for the first time ( but almost), I agree with your sentiments in this matter.

This sentence says it all..." he is responsible for shit on his watch".

He was given the authority, now he needs to accept some responsibility for his actions.

There is just so much a President can do when he inherits laws passed by a Republican government. Please keep in mind that the Patriot Act was a gift from a Republican Congress. That being said, a President has to work with what he has. The real issue is/are the laws that authorize all of these information gathering programs. It is up to the US Congress to act. Therefore, I suggest you take it up with your Representative. If people are unhappy with the present circumstances, then change the applicable laws that authorize the activity. Repeal the Patriot Act or amend it.

I understand, as a Canadian, you wouldn't be expected to know the first thing about the American government or the Obama presidency so let me correct your mistatement. Yes Obama was not president when the Patriot Act came into being. He DID run for office with a platform to rollback what he THEN said were unconstitutional encroachments on privacy to be found within the provisions of the Patriot Act and to close Guantanmo Bay Prison. He WAS president when he signed extensions on the most odious provisions in the Patriot Act. Provisions that were unconstitutionally sketchy and would have sunseted but not for his re-signing them into law. He was president when the NDAA, SOPA and PIPA were signed into law which are Acts that further erode the freedoms of all Americans. Not only did Obama not roll back any of Bush's Orwellian policies he has escalated those policies. The War On Terror™ is the ruse to do so but that's all bullshit. The American citizens, every one, is the target.