Bargirls and Buddha

[rockyysdt]

Unfortunately, in life, many of us do as has been done by those before.

We repeat customs and rituals which appear to have been performed for generations with no knowledge to the origin or reason for such acts.

If you question them, many will have very little, if any knowledge on what the Buddha actually taught.

Ajahn Buddhadasa, a Monk and scholar, now deceased, said: "Why do we do these things this way and that way".

He was told that this is the way it has always been done.

Not satisfied, he went back to the earliest documents and works attributed to the Buddha and began to uncover a closer understanding of the Buddhas teachings.

Many of us, when asked about Buddhism will already have formed an opinion or view.

Regardless of whatever anyone will tell them, they will return to their original conditioning regarding this subject.

Unless one is really interested in learning about Buddhism or any other subject, it might be pointless.

What I find usually occurs is that each party ends up defending ones exisitng beliefs, rather than uncovering and learning.

Edited June 12, 2013 by rockyysdt

[bangkokrick]

So prostitutes should be denied religion? They probably strongly depend on religion to give them hope.

[muythai2013]

So prostitutes should be denied religion? They probably strongly depend on religion to give them hope.

you are the 6 person to wrongly mention what I am even talking about, Its not really right or fair to say I'm saying something that I am not even saying.

My whole point is not about there right to worship, everyone has a right, the purpose is about the use of the tools of worship in such an environment like a Brothel, and praying for more customers in Buddhas name.

Statues of Buddha do not belong in a Brothel, You don't have to be religious or understand anything about religion to know that's not right.

[muythai2013]

On another note, can everyone please stop acting like Bargirls don't have a choice, 90% of them don't have to be there.

we need to establish some honesty before we can talk sensibly, they do it because they don't wish to work long hard hours for less money, Greed/laziness/no morals.

[muythai2013]

OP: The following quote is, I believe, applicable.

"Living a spiritual life, the Buddha saw, is not about arguing over the name of that which is beyond name and form, but rather is about living in harmony with the Divine Presence in every moment of life"

As a self-described Buddhist, why not concentrate, rather than posting topics that seem to have no relevance to your personnel spiritual journey. Alternatively it would be interesting to see your explanation as to why you believe they are meaningful.

It would be a bit strange to sit here talking about myself all day.

Buddhist are allowed an opinion to and we can also post them on forums.

They produced thousands of pages in the tipitaka from Buddhas opinions.

[manarak]

Statues of Buddha do not belong in a Brothel, You don't have to be religious or understand anything about religion to know that's not right.

As I understand, a brothel is not a place that is more special than a police station full of corrupt cops or a beauty salon where girls go to because of their vanity or a place where people gamble, or a place where people play games for distraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buddha_games)... the list of "un-buddhist" activities goes on and on.

Why should in your opinion a bar or a brothel deserve a special treatment?

are you by chance an American?

Edited June 12, 2013 by manarak

[simple1]

So prostitutes should be denied religion? They probably strongly depend on religion to give them hope.

you are the 6 person to wrongly mention what I am even talking about, Its not really right or fair to say I'm saying something that I am not even saying.

My whole point is not about there right to worship, everyone has a right, the purpose is about the use of the tools of worship in such an environment like a Brothel, and praying for more customers in Buddhas name.

Statues of Buddha do not belong in a Brothel, You don't have to be religious or understand anything about religion to know that's not right.

Prostitution is against the teachings of the Buddha, but I understand the Thai sangha hierarchy has said virtually nothing about this issue. In your opinion, why is this?

[canman]

So prostitutes should be denied religion? They probably strongly depend on religion to give them hope.

you are the 6 person to wrongly mention what I am even talking about, Its not really right or fair to say I'm saying something that I am not even saying.

My whole point is not about there right to worship, everyone has a right, the purpose is about the use of the tools of worship in such an environment like a Brothel, and praying for more customers in Buddhas name.

Statues of Buddha do not belong in a Brothel, You don't have to be religious or understand anything about religion to know that's not right.

I get what you are saying MT. Some Christians would be incensed if there was a statue of the virgin mary in a brothel for example so it's a valid question to ask. It does not seem however to bother Thai's so that I thnk is the answer to your question. You and others may be bothered by this but as we are debating this specificly in the context of Thailand one must say "up to them"

[muythai2013]

Statues of Buddha do not belong in a Brothel, You don't have to be religious or understand anything about religion to know that's not right.

As I understand, a brothel is not a place that is more special than a police station full of corrupt cops or a beauty salon where girls go to because of their vanity or a place where people gamble, or a place where people play games for distraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buddha_games)... the list of "un-buddhist" activities goes on and on.

Why should in your opinion a bar or a brothel deserve a special treatment?

are you by chance an American?

My wife does not mind if I go to the salon, she would however mind if I went to a Brothel, why do you think that is or should we point out the painfully obvious.

[manarak]

Statues of Buddha do not belong in a Brothel, You don't have to be religious or understand anything about religion to know that's not right.

As I understand, a brothel is not a place that is more special than a police station full of corrupt cops or a beauty salon where girls go to because of their vanity or a place where people gamble, or a place where people play games for distraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buddha_games)... the list of "un-buddhist" activities goes on and on.

Why should in your opinion a bar or a brothel deserve a special treatment?

are you by chance an American?

My wife does not mind if I go to the salon, she would however mind if I went to a Brothel, why do you think that is or should we point out the painfully obvious.

But the reason why your wife wound mind is not because of Buddhism.

I think you are confusing issues, and it would help if you pointed out what supposedly is "painfully obvious" to you, because for me it isn't.

I say this because I suppose that your Western/Christian background makes you view prostitution in a far more negative light than the Thai Buddhists see it.

Edited June 12, 2013 by manarak

[gerrythepoet]

Monks bless bars, massage parlours it doesn't matter what it is.

In those places one will find a statue of Buddha.

Christians have their own form of worship, the Buddhists give respect

Spirit houses are to ensure the spirits are happy.

One assumes to know what the individual bar girls are saying

Buddhists do not pray they chant.

What each individual says in their heart is heard that is the faith

What they say no one knows unless they specifically tell you.

[muythai2013]

chanman, Thai's do dislike The statues in Bars.

[muythai2013]

Statues of Buddha do not belong in a Brothel, You don't have to be religious or understand anything about religion to know that's not right.

As I understand, a brothel is not a place that is more special than a police station full of corrupt cops or a beauty salon where girls go to because of their vanity or a place where people gamble, or a place where people play games for distraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buddha_games)... the list of "un-buddhist" activities goes on and on.

Why should in your opinion a bar or a brothel deserve a special treatment?

are you by chance an American?

My wife does not mind if I go to the salon, she would however mind if I went to a Brothel, why do you think that is or should we point out the painfully obvious.

But the reason why your wife wound mind is not because of Buddhism.

I think you are confusing issues, and it would help if you pointed out what supposedly is "painfully obvious" to you, because for me it isn't.

I say this because I suppose that your Western/Christian background makes you view prostitution in a far more negative light than the Thai Buddhists see it.

Would not know I am not nor have I ever been Christian.

[manarak]

Would not know I am not nor have I ever been Christian.

I meant western and/or christian.

[muythai2013]

Would not know I am not nor have I ever been Christian.

I meant western and/or christian.

Every race creed or colour looks at bargirls in a negative light, some are just more open about it.

[manarak]

Would not know I am not nor have I ever been Christian.

I meant western and/or christian.

Every race creed or colour looks at bargirls in a negative light, some are just more open about it.

americans?

[muythai2013]

Would not know I am not nor have I ever been Christian.

I meant western and/or christian.

Every race creed or colour looks at bargirls in a negative light, some are just more open about it.

americans?

Would not know you should ask an American.

[rockyysdt]

Would not know I am not nor have I ever been Christian.

I meant western and/or christian.

Every race creed or colour looks at bargirls in a negative light, some are just more open about it.

It depends on the era.

During Roman times brothels were quite open and it was considered normal to frequent them, just as one may attend a health spa today. As jealousy, prurience, sin and others rivers were absent such activity was less likely to generate harm.

It wasn't until Christianity led to the concept of sex being a sin.

In terms of Buddhism this subject is covered by the third precept:

I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct.

The motivating consideration is not that sex is a sin, but that sexual misconduct may lead to the harming of others or being harmed.

Every unenlightened being is subject to attachment, of varying degree, to greed, aversion and delusion.

Most of us will be involved in some form of conduct which is unskillful, on a daily basis.

As significant as it is, to focus alone on sexual misconduct is to display attachment to such activity.

Edited June 12, 2013 by rockyysdt

[muythai2013]

Would not know I am not nor have I ever been Christian.

I meant western and/or christian.

Every race creed or colour looks at bargirls in a negative light, some are just more open about it.

It depends on the era.

During Roman times brothels were quite open and it was considered normal to frequent them.

It wasn't until Christianity led to the concept of sex being a sin.

In terms of Buddhism this subject is covered by the third precept:

I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct.

The motivating consideration is not the sex is a sin, but that sexual misconduct may lead to harming others or being harmed.

It goes far deeper then the Third precept.

[manarak]

americans?

Would not know you should ask an American.

ah - Australian

[Totster]

It depends on the era.

During Roman times brothels were quite open and it was considered normal to frequent them.

It wasn't until Christianity led to the concept of sex being a sin.

In terms of Buddhism this subject is covered by the third precept:

I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct.

The motivating consideration is not the sex is a sin, but that sexual misconduct may lead to harming others or being harmed.

It goes far deeper then the Third precept.

That's kind of a cop out not explaining why...

This topic interests me, so I would like a further explanation if you have one..

totster

[rockyysdt]

It goes far deeper then the Third precept.

That's kind of a cop out not explaining why...

This topic interests me, so I would like a further explanation if you have one..

totster

Can you be more specific?

What specifically do you want explained?

[muythai2013]

It goes far deeper then the Third precept.

That's kind of a cop out not explaining why...

This topic interests me, so I would like a further explanation if you have one..

totster

Can you be more specific?

What specifically do you want explained?

good question

[simple1]

So prostitutes should be denied religion? They probably strongly depend on religion to give them hope.

you are the 6 person to wrongly mention what I am even talking about, Its not really right or fair to say I'm saying something that I am not even saying.

My whole point is not about there right to worship, everyone has a right, the purpose is about the use of the tools of worship in such an environment like a Brothel, and praying for more customers in Buddhas name.

Statues of Buddha do not belong in a Brothel, You don't have to be religious or understand anything about religion to know that's not right.

Prostitution is against the teachings of the Buddha, but I understand the Thai sangha hierarchy has said virtually nothing about this issue. In your opinion, why is this?

Bump...

[Totster]

It goes far deeper then the Third precept.

That's kind of a cop out not explaining why...

This topic interests me, so I would like a further explanation if you have one..

totster

Can you be more specific?

What specifically do you want explained?

good question

Why it goes far deeper than the Third precept. That is why I quoted that comment.

totster

Edited June 12, 2013 by Totster

[SinglePot]

It is often the least advantaged in society who place the greatest faith in religion.

Is that why the Queen of England is the Head of the Church of England? Peasants have more faith than the dignitaries attending the Queen's 60th at Westminster Abbey?

I know you are not saying this Jasun but do we need to be a bit cautious about the suggestion that religion and 'need' are inextricably linked in Thailand or anywhere else?

Closer to topic, I see no problem with a spirit home in any building, but I haven't been a monk.

[briboy]

americans?

Would not know you should ask an American.

ah - Australian

yea from QLD, penis with ears, thats my slant on it

[rockyysdt]

Why it goes far deeper than the Third precept. That is why I quoted that comment.

totster

We have two separate scenarios here occurring in parallel.

Firstly we have what the Buddha taught.

He never taught lucky charms, praying for good luck, the existence of spirit/soul, nor shall I dare to say it, reincarnation.

Then we have what is practiced in Thailand.

A mix of Buddhism, Animism, superstition and belief in spirits and that the Buddha as some kind of living God who can grant a better life in the future.

Most likely some sex workers choose their profession as a lifestyle.

In an impoverished country one must have first hand experience as to why Bar Girls choose their profession to understand such a path. Customers most likely only see a distorted view of what such work entails and the suffering and damage which goes with such work.

Psychologically many of these girls think their their work is for the good of their family and children. Thai women are brought up by their grandparents to devote themselves to their family. They sacrifice them selves for the others. I met a Thai girl last month who is only marrying this man because he gets on with her PaPa and that the business this mans brings to the family is important. Working overseas in restaurants under cover of a student visa she pours every spare cent to her mother.

With their Buddhist (not what the Buddha taught) conditioning why shouldn't they have access to the same promises merit promises every other person.

Everyone in Samsara (as they believe) has been born to suffer.

Everyone is where they are due to their previous conduct (kharma).

One Monk indicated a woman had lost her legs in an accident as she killed someone in a former life. Another was told he suffered with IBS as in a former life he was a female who allowed an abortion to occur. Sex Workers are the same. They believe they were born into such situations due to their kharma.

If the question is, why do they place statues of Buddha in brothels", the answer is that they believe their kharma dictates their choice in life, and they have the same access to merit as everyone else to save themselves or have a more fortunate re birth.

Unfortunately, virtually the only way out of Dukkha (suffering) is via personal effort along the ëightfold path".

Edited June 12, 2013 by rockyysdt

[ThailandTom1]

You will find that in most bars there is not a Buddha image. A bar is a business therefore there will usually be an image of Nangkuak and also kuman tong. It is these two images that bar girls are praying too for good luck and not Buddha. Another image usually present in a bar is Rama V. Next time you are in a bar look closely at the shrine. You will also see a phalad kik near by. Hand in hand with the above goes all the magic tattoos which the bar girls are covered with. Each tattoo means something different and all are believed to bring good fortune or entrap punters.


Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[SinglePot]

'Why do Thai woman who work in the sex industry put statues of Buddha and or spirit houses in their place of business.'

Why not ask THEM?

Me and every body else posting are just guessing.