HerbalEd Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 That would be a very stupid move and would lead to sharia law implementation almost immediately. It may be used to some degree in civil litigation as it is in Malaysia or even the UK nowadays. However, the area is majority Muslim, shouldn't they be deciding what laws they want to implement? If there was a majority Christian area in Thailand would you advocate they should have the right to their own laws? Since you asked "if".... then here's my answer: IF there were three districts and hundreds of thousands of Christians who'd been living there for many generations, then I'd have to say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainarong Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 This is not good , the back down is not acceptable , go and think, don't jump when they say so, you tread a dangerous path that you will regret , this style has been rejected by so many countries in the same position, outside help is your last resort ask for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 To cede power to rebels! Mmmm Why not save time and money and just annex the deep south now and call it Malaysia. Perhaps someone could translate for the Thai's, 'you give someone an inch and they take a yard', you give rebels an inch and they will take everything. Islam demands world domination so do the Government think it stops in Yala? And IF this is nothing to do with religion then what do the rebels want? The rebels are happy with the money and power and position they have, do the Government think they want to give that away for some offer of peace? This is full time employment to these guys and the hours are easier than 7/11 or the local building site. This is a business, they don't want peace. Perhaps the Government should remember how their own redshirt representatives (now ministers and politicians) negotiated with Abhisit. They demanded early elections and a date, and Abhisit, conceded to all their demands. Clearly not expecting this to happen the reds then walked out of the negotiations despite all their demands being met and continued their act of anarchy. Why do the Government think the rebels in the South are more honourable than they are themselves? Good point. They have done it before, why not again? This is what Thailand does best; when there is a dispute then give away land. This is reflected throughout Thai history. Maybe in 50 years Thailand will be as big as Rhode Island. Do you know the history of how Thailand originally got this Muslim area? Historically it was not a part of Siam/Thailand. I'm too lazy right now to re-read my Thai history and provide the factual details, but that land was annexed to Thailand .... in very early 20th century, I believe ... which is why a large part of the Muslim population there want their self rule and to not live under the laws of a Buddhist government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeENZ Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 One step closer to the Caliphate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumbles Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The best place for Malay Muslim culture is Malaysia. Thai Buddhist culture in Thailand. What next? We 'falangs' want a part of Thailand handed over to us for our christian culture. Yeah, right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winstonc Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 i thougfht thailand used to be bigger down south,didnt the british take a large chunk when they had malaysia,and thailand said ok,saved them being swallowed into the british empire,,,i might be wrong but,,,,,,, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) The best place for Malay Muslim culture is Malaysia. Thai Buddhist culture in Thailand. What next? We 'falangs' want a part of Thailand handed over to us for our christian culture. Yeah, right! True, but who drew the border and did they ask the folks in the Muslim area for their permission to draw it where they did? Doubt it. Look at a map of Thailand. Crazy borders that make absolutely no sense. If I didn't know better, it looks to me like some of the borders redrawn by European colonists when they ruled the Middle East. And all those poorly conceived borders will cause grief for another 10 generations. Edited June 12, 2013 by impulse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The Thai army and other security forces have a lot to answer for. They treat the "locals" in the deep south with deep contempt and win no "hearts and minds". If the politicans had the guts they would implement a deep cleaning of the security mentality and then an even deeper integration within those security forces, of ALL the cultures they are trying to police. Think women police, african and indian police, etc etc in many areas of London, Bradford, etc. I am sure the USA has the same mix in it's more enlightened cities. This is a political mess created by annexation and then incorporation into the constitution - making it very difficult to unravel, but it CAN be managed without ceding to terrorists. One other little-mentioned thought -- todays terrorists are tomorrows politicans. Be careful of how they are dealt with because they have long memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) i thougfht thailand used to be bigger down south,didnt the british take a large chunk when they had malaysia,and thailand said ok,saved them being swallowed into the british empire,,,i might be wrong but,,,,,,, This URL will give you a high level overview http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Siamese_Treaty_of_1909 It's interesting to note the following from a strategic study paper published by a Thai military officer. "After the Second World War, Pattani Malays sought to merge the four southern provinces with Malaya. A petition emerged from the strong Malay identity of the four southern provinces. However, the resultant petition to the United Nations failed, because in the end, Britain did not support the southern provinces’ incorporation into Malaya" Edited June 12, 2013 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venturalaw Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Much as I loathe the idea of giving in to terrorists demands, it does seem like an appropriate response to allow some degree of autonomy in the 3 southern provinces. This has worked to an extent in Basque region of northern Spain. Perhaps some sort of deal whereby they get some autonomy under the conditions that random beheadings of rubber workers and teachers, and school arson attacks are stopped immediately. Until they decide to move further north with even greater fervor after Thailand agreed to their demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 There should be zero public statements like this. The offers should be coming from the other side. To declare this possibility puts the negotiators in a ridiculously weak position. They stop shooting and bombing for 6 months, then the public discussions can start on any autonomy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchybum Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Nooooo...loss ....face....much.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Most posters seem to think that just because the area were Malay states that Islam is the only historical religion there. In fact Buddhism was there before Islam due to the Indian influence. Also, (apparently) only 30% of Thais in Southern Thailand are Muslim. I'm sure there are better sources around than wiki, but it's better than nothing. Popular opinion seems to hold that a vast majority of the country's Muslims are found in the Thailand's three Southernmost provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat. However, the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs' research indicates that only 18% of Thai Muslims live in those three provinces. The rest are scattered throughout Thailand, with the largest concentrations being in Bangkok and throughout the larger Southern region. The population in Satun Province, which borders Malaysia as well, is also predominantly muslim. According to the National Statistics Office, in 2005, Muslims in Southern Thailand made up 30.4% of general population above the age 15, while less than 3% in other parts of the country.[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Much as I loathe the idea of giving in to terrorists demands, it does seem like an appropriate response to allow some degree of autonomy in the 3 southern provinces. This has worked to an extent in Basque region of northern Spain. Perhaps some sort of deal whereby they get some autonomy under the conditions that random beheadings of rubber workers and teachers, and school arson attacks are stopped immediately. In order for it to work they would have to deal with the terrorists of today. Even then it wouldn't work. Look at all the countries in the world where they have immigrated to. Welfare systems being ruined Peoples lives being threatened bombs being used on innocent people. They want world domination not just a part of it. BBC has interviewed there Imen or Moolahs not sure of there titles (or how to spell them) who on international news claim they are going to take over the world. If you give them an inch they will be back tomorrow for a foot and the next day a yard they want the whole ball game and are willing to lie to get it. Ya just give us this little bit and we will become outstanding citizens and never kill any more innocent people. What they leave out is in there eyes the only innocent people are Muslims who belong to the same sect as them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 That would be a very stupid move and would lead to sharia law implementation almost immediately. Does Malaysia function under Sharia law? Yes & No. Llimited to civil matters & does not apply to non Muslims. I understand their has only been one or two exceptions regards inter religious marriage. In some states there are Sharia criminal laws, for example there is the Kelantan Syariah Criminal Code Enactment 1993. Their jurisdiction is however limited to imposing fines for an amount not more than 5000 Ringit, and imprisonment to not more than 3 years. Their was an attempt to implement Sharia criminal law across Malaysia to replace common law, but was rejected by the Malaysian Bar Council Hang on a bloody minute. AFAIK inter-religious marriage is not allowed in Malaysia, unless approved by some muslim council. Religion is stated on ID, permission for marriage has to be granted, and religion change FROM muslim is NOT PERMITTED. What a lovely scenario of peace, love and tolerance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangTalk Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Most posters seem to think that just because the area were Malay states that Islam is the only historical religion there. In fact Buddhism was there before Islam due to the Indian influence. Also, (apparently) only 30% of Thais in Southern Thailand are Muslim. I'm sure there are better sources around than wiki, but it's better than nothing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Thailand Popular opinion seems to hold that a vast majority of the country's Muslims are found in the Thailand's three Southernmost provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat. However, the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs' research indicates that only 18% of Thai Muslims live in those three provinces. The rest are scattered throughout Thailand, with the largest concentrations being in Bangkok and throughout the larger Southern region. The population in Satun Province, which borders Malaysia as well, is also predominantly muslim. According to the National Statistics Office, in 2005, Muslims in Southern Thailand made up 30.4% of general population above the age 15, while less than 3% in other parts of the country.[3] The provinces that are seeking autonomy have Muslim populations well in excess of 70% and are traditionally Muslim and predominantly ethnic Malay. Interestingly, their ethnicity is not even acknowledged by Thailand, yet others are, such as ethnic Chinese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post samran Posted June 12, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2013 Most of this thread is hysterical scaremongering by anti Muslim bigots. The south is sovereign Thai soil. Nothing is going to change that. All that is being proposed is a limited devolution of government, which frankly, should be happening across all of Thailand. For historical and political reasons, this has only ever happened in a ad hoc manner. Elected governors! What a novel idea! Recognising a distinct culture and language down south is an excellent start. Local administration which takes into account local needs. How revolutionary! All this however is too much for your average central Bangkok bureaucrat at the MOI who has a massive problems with letting go of one iota of power to a village head in Mukdahan, let alone Pattani. But for Thailand's sake, devolution needs to happen across the board. Including the south. The current violence is as much a result as the ham fisted incompetent management of the Thaksin 1 government than anything else. An offering like this would be a good start. It makes sense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangTalk Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Until they decide to move further north with even greater fervor after Thailand agreed to their demands. Much as I loathe the idea of giving in to terrorists demands, it does seem like an appropriate response to allow some degree of autonomy in the 3 southern provinces. This has worked to an extent in Basque region of northern Spain. Perhaps some sort of deal whereby they get some autonomy under the conditions that random beheadings of rubber workers and teachers, and school arson attacks are stopped immediately. Why would they move further North? They are simply seeking autonomy for a predominantly and traditionally Muslim Malay area. Thankfully, the Thai government are starting to see the reality of the situation, obviously far beyond the comprehension of some of the expats on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Until they decide to move further north with even greater fervor after Thailand agreed to their demands. Much as I loathe the idea of giving in to terrorists demands, it does seem like an appropriate response to allow some degree of autonomy in the 3 southern provinces. This has worked to an extent in Basque region of northern Spain. Perhaps some sort of deal whereby they get some autonomy under the conditions that random beheadings of rubber workers and teachers, and school arson attacks are stopped immediately. Why would they move further North? They are simply seeking autonomy for a predominantly and traditionally Muslim Malay area. Thankfully, the Thai government are starting to see the reality of the situation, obviously far beyond the comprehension of some of the expats on here. Because a basic tenet of their religion is expansionism. You might ask why people would wish to move from religious tolerance to intolerance, as exhibited to their near south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Until they decide to move further north with even greater fervor after Thailand agreed to their demands. Much as I loathe the idea of giving in to terrorists demands, it does seem like an appropriate response to allow some degree of autonomy in the 3 southern provinces. This has worked to an extent in Basque region of northern Spain. Perhaps some sort of deal whereby they get some autonomy under the conditions that random beheadings of rubber workers and teachers, and school arson attacks are stopped immediately. Why would they move further North?They are simply seeking autonomy for a predominantly and traditionally Muslim Malay area. Thankfully, the Thai government are starting to see the reality of the situation, obviously far beyond the comprehension of some of the expats on here. Because a basic tenet of their religion is expansionism. You might ask why people would wish to move from religious tolerance to intolerance, as exhibited to their near south. The only religious expansionistic behaviour i have even seen in Thailand, including a stint studying in Pattani, are Mormons and happy clapper Christians. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venturalaw Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Until they decide to move further north with even greater fervor after Thailand agreed to their demands. Much as I loathe the idea of giving in to terrorists demands, it does seem like an appropriate response to allow some degree of autonomy in the 3 southern provinces. This has worked to an extent in Basque region of northern Spain. Perhaps some sort of deal whereby they get some autonomy under the conditions that random beheadings of rubber workers and teachers, and school arson attacks are stopped immediately. Why would they move further North? They are simply seeking autonomy for a predominantly and traditionally Muslim Malay area. Thankfully, the Thai government are starting to see the reality of the situation, obviously far beyond the comprehension of some of the expats on here. Until they decide to move further north with even greater fervor after Thailand agreed to their demands. Much as I loathe the idea of giving in to terrorists demands, it does seem like an appropriate response to allow some degree of autonomy in the 3 southern provinces. This has worked to an extent in Basque region of northern Spain. Perhaps some sort of deal whereby they get some autonomy under the conditions that random beheadings of rubber workers and teachers, and school arson attacks are stopped immediately. Why would they move further North? They are simply seeking autonomy for a predominantly and traditionally Muslim Malay area. Thankfully, the Thai government are starting to see the reality of the situation, obviously far beyond the comprehension of some of the expats on here. The manner in which they are seeking 'autonomy' is through killing any who do not adopt their 'enlightened' ways. Hence the "problems" (AKA carnage) in the South. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlandy Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 That would be a very stupid move and would lead to sharia law implementation almost immediately. It may be used to some degree in civil litigation as it is in Malaysia or even the UK nowadays. However, the area is majority Muslim, shouldn't they be deciding what laws they want to implement? No. Should the people of Pattaya be deciding what laws they want to implement? Pattaya could choose Russian Orthodox, and hand the keys to the Russian mafia and put the FSB in charge of maintaining control..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 That would be a very stupid move and would lead to sharia law implementation almost immediately. Does Malaysia function under Sharia law? Yes & No. Llimited to civil matters & does not apply to non Muslims. I understand their has only been one or two exceptions regards inter religious marriage. In some states there are Sharia criminal laws, for example there is the Kelantan Syariah Criminal Code Enactment 1993. Their jurisdiction is however limited to imposing fines for an amount not more than 5000 Ringit, and imprisonment to not more than 3 years. Their was an attempt to implement Sharia criminal law across Malaysia to replace common law, but was rejected by the Malaysian Bar Council Hang on a bloody minute. AFAIK inter-religious marriage is not allowed in Malaysia, unless approved by some muslim council. Religion is stated on ID, permission for marriage has to be granted, and religion change FROM muslim is NOT PERMITTED. What a lovely scenario of peace, love and tolerance. I was there about 5 years ago and the lawyers counsel or what ever they call them selves was trying to bring in Sharia law about a man and wife holding hands in public. It was already banned to the Muslims and they were trying to ban it to every one. Never heard how that turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro01 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 That would be a very stupid move and would lead to sharia law implementation almost immediately. Don't be silly. Why should they not be able to elect their own governor down there? It doesn't make it any less a part of Thailand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggusoil Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 That would be a very stupid move and would lead to sharia law implementation almost immediately. It may be used to some degree in civil litigation as it is in Malaysia or even the UK nowadays. However, the area is majority Muslim, shouldn't they be deciding what laws they want to implement? No. Should the people of Pattaya be deciding what laws they want to implement? 6 guys want to lynch you and 4 don't. What is the "democratic" thing to do? You guys love democracy that much? Mmm Here come the radical muslims, with lots of money behind them. ASk yourself why they arent' happy to live in Malaysia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Off topic posts and replies have been removed. This is not about whether Sharia exists in the UK, nor is it about an Independent Scotland and it is not about whether the US is a Christian country or not. Stay on topic please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rametindallas Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 To cede power to rebels! Mmmm Why not save time and money and just annex the deep south now and call it Malaysia. Perhaps someone could translate for the Thai's, 'you give someone an inch and they take a yard', you give rebels an inch and they will take everything. Islam demands world domination so do the Government think it stops in Yala? And IF this is nothing to do with religion then what do the rebels want? The rebels are happy with the money and power and position they have, do the Government think they want to give that away for some offer of peace? This is full time employment to these guys and the hours are easier than 7/11 or the local building site. This is a business, they don't want peace. Perhaps the Government should remember how their own redshirt representatives (now ministers and politicians) negotiated with Abhisit. They demanded early elections and a date, and Abhisit, conceded to all their demands. Clearly not expecting this to happen the reds then walked out of the negotiations despite all their demands being met and continued their act of anarchy. Why do the Government think the rebels in the South are more honourable than they are themselves? Good point. They have done it before, why not again? This is what Thailand does best; when there is a dispute then give away land. This is reflected throughout Thai history. Maybe in 50 years Thailand will be as big as Rhode Island. Do you know the history of how Thailand originally got this Muslim area? Historically it was not a part of Siam/Thailand. I'm too lazy right now to re-read my Thai history and provide the factual details, but that land was annexed to Thailand .... in very early 20th century, I believe ... which is why a large part of the Muslim population there want their self rule and to not live under the laws of a Buddhist government. 'Historically', if you want to go back far enough, no country/government existed. Every country has a past that includes conquests. Should the Lanna Kingdom be restored? Should the Khmer Kingdom be restored? Should England be given back to the Romans or French or Norse? Should the U.S. be divided up into the dominions of the various Native tribes that were conquered? It is a dangerous path you suggest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCer Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) I am not a bloodthirsty warmonger. I am all for peace. The idea is reasonable. The people in the South are not. This was, is and will be the problem. Comparison to Basks in N. Spain is hardly justified. I see three possible outcomes: 1) Maintain the status quo - let people continue to die on either side (with balance heavily tipped against Thais). 2) Mass deportation, well planned and organised within 24 hrs (Stalin style/Hitler style). 3) Cessation of Thai rule in the area, which will mean both - letting people continue to die on either side AND eventually mass deportation of local Thais in the opposite direction. Regarding the Stalin/Hitler methods, I assure you I am neither a Commy nor a Nazi. Just drastic situations require drastic measures. Or do nothing... we are used already to people being blown up every day in the name of God... Oh, yes, to all those who are appalled by my way of thinking - you cannot fight bombs, murder and be-headings with a Bible, an olive twig and an offer of a piss peace. Edited June 13, 2013 by ABCer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 That would be a very stupid move and would lead to sharia law implementation almost immediately. Does Malaysia function under Sharia law? Yes & No. Llimited to civil matters & does not apply to non Muslims. I understand their has only been one or two exceptions regards inter religious marriage. In some states there are Sharia criminal laws, for example there is the Kelantan Syariah Criminal Code Enactment 1993. Their jurisdiction is however limited to imposing fines for an amount not more than 5000 Ringit, and imprisonment to not more than 3 years. Their was an attempt to implement Sharia criminal law across Malaysia to replace common law, but was rejected by the Malaysian Bar Council Hang on a bloody minute. AFAIK inter-religious marriage is not allowed in Malaysia, unless approved by some muslim council. Religion is stated on ID, permission for marriage has to be granted, and religion change FROM muslim is NOT PERMITTED. What a lovely scenario of peace, love and tolerance. To clarify, I was referring to the few reported court cases where Malaysian implementation of Sharia Law was not complied with in interfaith marriage. Whilst it is not law, it is reported that with Malaysian Christians it is common practice for non-Christians, e.g. Hindus, to be required to convert to Christianity for the marriage to go ahead. Here in Thailand it is a common practice for Thai Buddhists to ostracise their son/daughter when they convert to Islam for the purpose of marriage. The reverse is obviously practiced. I have attended marriage celebrations / burials of Buddhists who have converted to Islam and the Buddhist family have refused to accept invitations from the Muslim family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 That would be a very stupid move and would lead to sharia law implementation almost immediately. It may be used to some degree in civil litigation as it is in Malaysia or even the UK nowadays. However, the area is majority Muslim, shouldn't they be deciding what laws they want to implement? No. Should the people of Pattaya be deciding what laws they want to implement? 6 guys want to lynch you and 4 don't. What is the "democratic" thing to do? You guys love democracy that much? Mmm Here come the radical muslims, with lots of money behind them. ASk yourself why they arent' happy to live in Malaysia? Cause they aren't Malaysian Einstein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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