prostate reduction

[Tolley]

Read all about Pomegranate juice here

http://www.ftc.gov/os/adjpro/d9344/120521pomdecision.pdf

and here

http://center4research.org/i-saw-it-on-the-internet/pomegranate-prostate/

and here

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidvinjamuri/2012/05/23/judge-finds-pom-wonderful-advertising-deceptive-but-thats-just-the-tip-of-the-iceberg/

I was told by a doctor that drinking tomato juice is very good for avoiding prostate problems. Anybody know enough to confirm this ?

Lycopene which is found in tomatoes has been found to be beneficial for those with prostate problems. It is in many of the prostate supplements sold in health food shops.

[Sheryl]

Read all about Pomegranate juice here

http://www.ftc.gov/os/adjpro/d9344/120521pomdecision.pdf

and here

http://center4research.org/i-saw-it-on-the-internet/pomegranate-prostate/

and here

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidvinjamuri/2012/05/23/judge-finds-pom-wonderful-advertising-deceptive-but-thats-just-the-tip-of-the-iceberg/

I was told by a doctor that drinking tomato juice is very good for avoiding prostate problems. Anybody know enough to confirm this ?

Lycopene which is found in tomatoes has been found to be beneficial for those with prostate problems. It is in many of the prostate supplements sold in health food shops.

"has been found beneficial" is not fully accurate.

"Patients diagnosed with BPH or enlarged prostate are at increased risk of developing prostate cancer and may benefit from taking lycopene supplements. Initial evidence suggests that lycopene may help prevent disease progression in BPH. Further studies are necessary before lycopene may be recommended." http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lycopene/NS_patient-lycopene/DSECTION=evidence

There is a proven correllation between lycopene consumption and the incidence of prostate disease but correllation does not necessarily indicate causation. In addition, intervention trials have suggested that the beneficial effect of tomatoes may be due to more than just their lycopene content.

On the whole the research to date indicates possible but not conclusive findings as regards lycopene and cancer of the prostate:

"Results from several in vitro and animal studies have indicated that lycopene may have chemopreventive effects for cancers of the prostate, skin, breast, lung, and liver; however, human trials have been inconsistent in their findings..... Clinical trials utilizing lycopene in prostate cancer patients with various different clinical presentations (e.g., early stage, prostate-specific antigen (PSA) relapse, advanced disease) have yielded inconsistent results." http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/prostatesupplements/healthprofessional/page3

There is certainly no harm -- and a number of other benefits -- to increasing consumption of tomatoes/tomato products. But it would not be accurate to state that it is of proven benefit or to imply that it is certain to help. The research findings are much more equivocol than that.

[jrtmedic]

Sheryl -----again I agree 100%

[Tolley]

Read all about Pomegranate juice here

http://www.ftc.gov/os/adjpro/d9344/120521pomdecision.pdf

and here

http://center4research.org/i-saw-it-on-the-internet/pomegranate-prostate/

and here

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidvinjamuri/2012/05/23/judge-finds-pom-wonderful-advertising-deceptive-but-thats-just-the-tip-of-the-iceberg/

I was told by a doctor that drinking tomato juice is very good for avoiding prostate problems. Anybody know enough to confirm this ?

Lycopene which is found in tomatoes has been found to be beneficial for those with prostate problems. It is in many of the prostate supplements sold in health food shops.

"has been found beneficial" is not fully accurate.

"Patients diagnosed with BPH or enlarged prostate are at increased risk of developing prostate cancer and may benefit from taking lycopene supplements. Initial evidence suggests that lycopene may help prevent disease progression in BPH. Further studies are necessary before lycopene may be recommended." http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lycopene/NS_patient-lycopene/DSECTION=evidence

There is a proven correllation between lycopene consumption and the incidence of prostate disease but correllation does not necessarily indicate causation. In addition, intervention trials have suggested that the beneficial effect of tomatoes may be due to more than just their lycopene content.

On the whole the research to date indicates possible but not conclusive findings as regards lycopene and cancer of the prostate:

"Results from several in vitro and animal studies have indicated that lycopene may have chemopreventive effects for cancers of the prostate, skin, breast, lung, and liver; however, human trials have been inconsistent in their findings..... Clinical trials utilizing lycopene in prostate cancer patients with various different clinical presentations (e.g., early stage, prostate-specific antigen (PSA) relapse, advanced disease) have yielded inconsistent results." http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/prostatesupplements/healthprofessional/page3

There is certainly no harm -- and a number of other benefits -- to increasing consumption of tomatoes/tomato products. But it would not be accurate to state that it is of proven benefit or to imply that it is certain to help. The research findings are much more equivocol than that.

Okay fair enough but if we wait for all the studies to become conclusive then we will never try anything.

Further many of these substances will never ever undergo very extensive trials as there is no money in it for those funding the research.

[jrtmedic]

But the quack commercial sites will make $1000,s despite the disclaimers !

Edited June 19, 2013 by jrtmedic

[Tolley]

But the quack commercial sites will make 1000,s despite the disclaimers !

These ' quack' commercial sites are only bit players when it comes making money. Take a look at the peddlers of many dangers unecessary over the counter meds that are making the big pharmaceutical companies billions of dollars now they are the real experts.

[jrtmedic]

Conspiracy theories are wonderful the ill-educated love to roll in the stuff !

[kurnell]

I find that cutting out chili, fried foods, alcohol, caffeine etc does wonders

[Sheryl]

Please review rules #3 and 4 before posting here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/224498-health-forum-rules/

As this is an importnat topic affecting many TV members I would like to keep it open but if it continues to denigrate into arguments for and against "alternative" treatments, and/or to have posts making factually inaccurate claims, it will have to be closed.

[cheeryble]

Agree wholeheartedly Sheryl this affects very many men it's s big deal, and from the answers on this thread good information is not held by so many.

It would be great if we all got a good idea of real numbers, stochastic or statistical likelihoods if possible.......so we can make good decisions and maybe avoid the over treatment which seems pretty common, whilst not running from real danger signs.

So let's try to keep it going with careful sustainable contributions.

For example......I think it would be really useful to know what I asked the urologist, and clear up what I understood him to say about if it's detectable by digit, it's already spreading".....whcih I believe to be untrue and agreed by thers. Let's nail it.

Also the answer to what I asked him and got that answer:

Roughly what proportion of any cancers of the Prostate are missed (or detected) on digital exam?

Cheeryble.

[Tolley]

Read all about Pomegranate juice here

http://www.ftc.gov/os/adjpro/d9344/120521pomdecision.pdf

and here

http://center4research.org/i-saw-it-on-the-internet/pomegranate-prostate/

and here

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidvinjamuri/2012/05/23/judge-finds-pom-wonderful-advertising-deceptive-but-thats-just-the-tip-of-the-iceberg/

I was told by a doctor that drinking tomato juice is very good for avoiding prostate problems. Anybody know enough to confirm this ?

Lycopene which is found in tomatoes has been found to be beneficial for those with prostate problems. It is in many of the prostate supplements sold in health food shops.

"has been found beneficial" is not fully accurate.

"Patients diagnosed with BPH or enlarged prostate are at increased risk of developing prostate cancer and may benefit from taking lycopene supplements. Initial evidence suggests that lycopene may help prevent disease progression in BPH. Further studies are necessary before lycopene may be recommended." http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lycopene/NS_patient-lycopene/DSECTION=evidence

There is a proven correllation between lycopene consumption and the incidence of prostate disease but correllation does not necessarily indicate causation. In addition, intervention trials have suggested that the beneficial effect of tomatoes may be due to more than just their lycopene content.

On the whole the research to date indicates possible but not conclusive findings as regards lycopene and cancer of the prostate:

"Results from several in vitro and animal studies have indicated that lycopene may have chemopreventive effects for cancers of the prostate, skin, breast, lung, and liver; however, human trials have been inconsistent in their findings..... Clinical trials utilizing lycopene in prostate cancer patients with various different clinical presentations (e.g., early stage, prostate-specific antigen (PSA) relapse, advanced disease) have yielded inconsistent results." http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/prostatesupplements/healthprofessional/page3

There is certainly no harm -- and a number of other benefits -- to increasing consumption of tomatoes/tomato products. But it would not be accurate to state that it is of proven benefit or to imply that it is certain to help. The research findings are much more equivocol than that.

Many over the counter meds also come with the same caveat that you are applying to herbal/natural supplements.ie they dont necessarily help everyone and patients might need to swap and try different meds and even different dosages. Similarly with the natural/herbal products the same sort of trial and error is often required to get the desired results.

When it comes to research in general there is an alarming amount of evidence that many over the counter meds do not do what they are supposed to do and that some that do have such nasty side effects that the 'cure' is often worse than the disease. The whole research process where funding is done by those that financially benefit from it make it open to abuse.

When it comes to research on natural/herbal supplements in most cases there will never be huge trials as there is no financial incentive for the research because these products by and large cannot be patented. The other issue of course is that uniformity in production of these products leaves a lot to be desired so that there are many useless alternative products on the market which of course tarnishes the image of all natural/alternative methods. However there are good products out there and many have benefitted from using them.

[puck2]

......., the best solution is prostate removal utilizing the DaVinci machine robotic surgery. A one inch cut and blood loss is less than a teaspoon of blood, and you're up and around in a few days. The knife method of operation requires 2 liters of blood, a eight inch cut, and 6 months or more of full recovery. Check Dr. Jay Yew website as he's one of the top guys in the US on this. I think there are 2 hospitals here in Thailand that bought this DaVinci machine. It really expensive, somewhere over 2million $ US. The hospital where the King is and one other one.

Good news, RAM in Chiang Mai has such a DaVinci robot. And Dr. Bannakij is able to use it. Estimated costs in such a case ~ 400.000 to 450.000 THB (Dr. Bannakij).

[cheeryble]

......., the best solution is prostate removal utilizing the DaVinci machine robotic surgery. A one inch cut and blood loss is less than a teaspoon of blood, and you're up and around in a few days. The knife method of operation requires 2 liters of blood, a eight inch cut, and 6 months or more of full recovery. Check Dr. Jay Yew website as he's one of the top guys in the US on this. I think there are 2 hospitals here in Thailand that bought this DaVinci machine. It really expensive, somewhere over 2million $ US. The hospital where the King is and one other one.

Good news, RAM in Chiang Mai has such a DaVinci robot. And Dr. Bannakij is able to use it. Estimated costs in such a case ~ 400.000 to 450.000 THB (Dr. Bannakij).

Though I know a fairly young man who lives happily after it, I hope we can all avoid prostatectomy if at all possible.

I get the feeling it's been rather overdone in the past, hence a good idea to learn as much as one can.

BTW 400k-450k seems awfully expensive.....that really does sound like they're paying for the machine. It's much more than a triple bypass.

How they do it with Lasik machines I believe is the clinic or hospital pays per use, maybe the da Vinci is the same and the rate is high.

Still, good information...thankyou.

Edited July 1, 2013 by cheeryble

[NeverSure]

Please review rules #3 and 4 before posting here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/224498-health-forum-rules/

As this is an importnat topic affecting many TV members I would like to keep it open but if it continues to denigrate into arguments for and against "alternative" treatments, and/or to have posts making factually inaccurate claims, it will have to be closed.

Please review rules #3 and 4 before posting here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/224498-health-forum-rules/

As this is an importnat topic affecting many TV members I would like to keep it open but if it continues to denigrate into arguments for and against "alternative" treatments, and/or to have posts making factually inaccurate claims, it will have to be closed.

+100

[CBR250]

There is so much unhelpful and misleading information about BPH and prostate cancer (and almost all other medical conditions) on the web. I like to see the best possible evidence - that is, large scale double blind clinical trials, or even better, meta-analyses of same - before:

1. I place parts of my body into the hands of someone else, no matter how well educated and trained.

2. Buying some ancient herbal preparation that a few individuals report to have found beneficial.

3. Adjusting my already reasonably healthy lifestyle.

So, my favourite source for all things medical is the Cochrane Collaboration (http://www.cochrane.org/) - better even than the various National Health Organisations of various western countries (such as NHMRC in Australia), who are often at the mercy of the politics of the day. Check Cochrane for information on the prostate, including efficacy (or lack thereof) of herbal supplements (in brief, Cochrane's summary of extensive research shows that saw palmetto is totally useless, while pygeum africanum may have some benefits, as may beta silesterol). Also has reports on drug treatments (alpha blockers and 5 alpha reducase inhibitors) and surgical options.

I am peeved that for so many years the medical establishment ignored the prostate. Government expenditure on research into the prostate has been about 10% of the amount spent on breast cancer over the last 20 years, despite the fact that more men die from prostate cancer than women do from breast cancer. If funding had been matched over that time, perhaps the surgical finesse of dealing with the prostate may match the advances that have occurred in surgery for breast cancer. That is, perhaps we men wouldn't be left impotent / incontinent in a significant number of cases if surgical techniques for cancer / BPH had been better researched.

[bigwilly]

......., the best solution is prostate removal utilizing the DaVinci machine robotic surgery. A one inch cut and blood loss is less than a teaspoon of blood, and you're up and around in a few days. The knife method of operation requires 2 liters of blood, a eight inch cut, and 6 months or more of full recovery. Check Dr. Jay Yew website as he's one of the top guys in the US on this. I think there are 2 hospitals here in Thailand that bought this DaVinci machine. It really expensive, somewhere over 2million $ US. The hospital where the King is and one other one.

Good news, RAM in Chiang Mai has such a DaVinci robot. And Dr. Bannakij is able to use it. Estimated costs in such a case ~ 400.000 to 450.000 THB (Dr. Bannakij).

That seems quite reasonable pricing to me, I just got a quote for Laparoscopic Radical Prostatectomy in Bumrungrad, 650 to 750,000Baht price includes 1 night ICU,5 nights in the ward.

Regards BW

[loppylugs1]

......., the best solution is prostate removal utilizing the DaVinci machine robotic surgery. A one inch cut and blood loss is less than a teaspoon of blood, and you're up and around in a few days. The knife method of operation requires 2 liters of blood, a eight inch cut, and 6 months or more of full recovery. Check Dr. Jay Yew website as he's one of the top guys in the US on this. I think there are 2 hospitals here in Thailand that bought this DaVinci machine. It really expensive, somewhere over 2million $ US. The hospital where the King is and one other one.

Good news, RAM in Chiang Mai has such a DaVinci robot. And Dr. Bannakij is able to use it. Estimated costs in such a case ~ 400.000 to 450.000 THB (Dr. Bannakij).

That seems quite reasonable pricing to me, I just got a quote for Laparoscopic Radical Prostatectomy in Bumrungrad, 650 to 750,000Baht price includes 1 night ICU,5 nights in the ward.

Regards BW

Yes I have had quotes such as these,was three days in hospital etc.for less than one tenth of these prices. Looking at new procedure before I commit to anything ,but in India

[bigwilly]

......., the best solution is prostate removal utilizing the DaVinci machine robotic surgery. A one inch cut and blood loss is less than a teaspoon of blood, and you're up and around in a few days. The knife method of operation requires 2 liters of blood, a eight inch cut, and 6 months or more of full recovery. Check Dr. Jay Yew website as he's one of the top guys in the US on this. I think there are 2 hospitals here in Thailand that bought this DaVinci machine. It really expensive, somewhere over 2million $ US. The hospital where the King is and one other one.

Good news, RAM in Chiang Mai has such a DaVinci robot. And Dr. Bannakij is able to use it. Estimated costs in such a case ~ 400.000 to 450.000 THB (Dr. Bannakij).

That seems quite reasonable pricing to me, I just got a quote for Laparoscopic Radical Prostatectomy in Bumrungrad, 650 to 750,000Baht price includes 1 night ICU,5 nights in the ward.

Regards BW

Yes I have had quotes such as these,was three days in hospital etc.for less than one tenth of these prices. Looking at new procedure before I commit to anything ,but in India

Loppylugs1.

Hi.

It seems as of now for Radical Prostatectomy there are 3 Da Vinci Robotic machines in Thailand, one in Chang Mai, one in Chulalungkorn Hospital in Bangkok and the other is i Mahidol Hospital Bangkok, I am booked in Mahidol early August so I will post here after the procedure, I wasn't impressed with Chulalungkorn much like one would expect in an old WW2 Movie, I managed to secure an excellent surgeon via the (Surgical Premium Clinic) at Mahidol and feel very much at ease with the facilities, Doctor and staff. I would be a bit concerned in India with superbugs, and they could probably sneak a kidney out too while your under! Just out of interest, I did contact some clinics in Australia and Private care including Doctors fee'e theater fees, came in at 29,000AUD. MRI scan extra 400.00AUD.

Bumrungrad charged 41,000Bt for the Endorectal MRI which I thought was expensive, even by Australian prices. Good luck with your search!

Regards BW

[loppylugs1]

India has the finest most advanced medical equipment the world produces, all state of the art. It really makes me scream when I see the cost of procedures here. not just this but anything and everything,laser treatment for eye surgery Widex hearing aids, prescription medicines (2000 baht here a month ,100 baht a month there).

For what you are going through the Da Vinci robotic machines,looked it up ( and this would be a touristy hospital) in India are advertising at 80% off USA prices,far cheaper stepping out of the tourist or health tourism bunch,see how cheap it is then.

No kidney taken,finest hospital care the world could offer at a fraction of Thailands prices. Sure there is life before death and I am not getting soaked by some of the charges applied here in Thailand

Cameras up the ass,down the throat looking for polyps £20 last time there each end,not that I would choose that place but path lab prices for each sample now £9 instead of £11 exchanges rates I could get rates for imagining suites if you wanted

[bigwilly]

India sounds interesting, I agree, with regards to pricing here in Thailand, I think the major Hospitals are gouging us ferang's. I just cant see how they can justify some costs. Really I will get it done here as it is convenient,I did consider doing the op in Australia, I could get free treatment on Medicare, but the Da Vinci is not an option, only Open Radical, I am a softy, and don't like pain.

BW

[puck2]

India sounds interesting, I agree, with regards to pricing here in Thailand, I think the major Hospitals are gouging us ferang's. I just cant see how they can justify some costs. Really I will get it done here as it is convenient,I did consider doing the op in Australia, I could get free treatment on Medicare, but the Da Vinci is not an option, only Open Radical, I am a softy, and don't like pain.

BW

Open Radical and no pain ??? I'm afraid you are misinformed. Please google.

........................................................

When you check the internet for robotic radical prostatectomy you'll get the advice to have it done by an experienced specialist (= who has done it many times).

One of the most experienced in Thailand seems to be -->

Re: price f. robotic radical prostatectomy

Dear Mr ......

The cost is approximately 350,000 Thai Baht with hospital stay of 4-7 days for Robotic radical prostatectomy in Siriraj hospital (=Mahidol)

Yours sincerely,

Dr Chaiyong Nualyong......

On 8 ก.ค. 2556,

(=28.06.2013)

Edited July 16, 2014 by puck2

[bigwilly]

puck2

If you re-read my posts I never said Open Radical Prostatectomy had no pain, that is the reason I am booked for the Da Vinci method here in Thailand.What I was saying is the free Radical Open procedure is available to me free of charge in Australia via Medicare, but I am a softy and would rather pay for the Da Vinci method here as there is most likely less pain with Da Vinci.

I agree with your comments re experience of the surgeon, and thanks for the price guide from Dr Nualyong, who I believe is one of the best in Thailand.

Regards BW.

[puck2]

@bigwilly

Sorry, that I misunderstood your post. I wish you good luck and a successful surgery!

[bigwilly]

Thanks.

No worries. I should have explained better.

Cheers BW

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[loppylugs1]

The new procedure urolift is getting excellent reports, less invasive surgery for BPH. In contact with a couple of surgeons in India,will be taking a trip over in near future to finalise details and getting on with it