Rear gear problem

[jambco984]

I haven't had any problems until I oiled my chain last week. Now when I select 8th gear on the rear cog and go for it, it misses and clunks only when applying added pressure for eg riding up hills stood up, if I go softly no problems.

It wasn't like this before so why is it now?

I don't know what I'm looking for, any advice welcomed.

Thanks

[Loptr]

Either your shift mechanism is out of adjustment or you have worn out the gear cartridge on the rear sprocket. Probably need a new rear gear cartridge and chain. If the teeth on the rear sprocket are rounded, then you need a new cartridge. I usually wear out a gear cartridge and chain once a year. Depends on how much and how far you usually ride.

[jambco984]

Either your shift mechanism is out of adjustment or you have worn out the gear cartridge on the rear sprocket. Probably need a new rear gear cartridge and chain. If the teeth on the rear sprocket are rounded, then you need a new cartridge. I usually wear out a gear cartridge and chain once a year. Depends on how much and how far you usually ride. 

The bike is 3ish months old.

It was fine before I oiled it.

How does a lay person like myself know if its out of adjustment? If worst comes to worst how much are we looking at for a new rear cartridge? It looks fine to me, not rounded as yet.

[jambco984]

I ride approx 30km+ 3-4 times per week if possible.

Off road on red dirt, main roads and some tracks but the latter is minimal.

[fdimike]

Have your chain checked as well as the rear gear. Bike shops can order the 3 smaller gears from Shimano to avoid replacing the entire cassette. If your chain/cassette is worn already maybe you need to clean them more often. Really cleaning and not just spraying with some water will extend the life of both significantly.

Cost for a new cassette depends on the model .

[jambco984]

When you sent the stand I gave it a good mucking out. First real clean in 400km Im bad I know.

I did oil it and give it a little wipe at 200km but not a lot.

It was ok until I cleaned it lol.

Now it has become a problem

Will take a look this evening or tomorrow morning

[fdimike]

Suggest you remove the chain and soak in kerosene to clean it. Kerosene works great and leaves a light oil film to prevent rust. Soak, swish, rinse with a stream of water & let dry before reinstalling. Kerosene is available in nearly all paint stores under the thai name nam man gaaz. To make life easier install a master link in order to remove and replace the chain easier. I usually clean my chain every few days while on tour. Kerosene can be reused as well.

[Loptr]

I ride approx 30km+ 3-4 times per week if possible.

Off road on red dirt, main roads and some tracks but the latter is minimal.

Yep, probably worn out the gear set with that much riding over 31 months. The symptoms you describe are exactly what happens when they wear out.

[jambco984]

Suggest you remove the chain and soak in kerosene to clean it. Kerosene works great and leaves a light oil film to prevent rust. Soak, swish, rinse with a stream of water & let dry before reinstalling. Kerosene is available in nearly all paint stores under the thai name nam man gaaz. To make life easier install a master link in order to remove and replace the chain easier. I usually clean my chain every few days while on tour. Kerosene can be reused as well.

Priceless as always Mike, think you should start charging me though

[jambco984]

I ride approx 30km+ 3-4 times per week if possible.

Off road on red dirt, main roads and some tracks but the latter is minimal.

 

Yep, probably worn out the gear set with that much riding over 31 months. The symptoms you describe are exactly what happens when they wear out.

I said 3 ish months old not 31 mate, that should make a difference

I had a 30 second look at the rear set and played with it with no idea if I was making it better.

It has improved but extended use of 8th gear and it does miss if thats the right word to use "miss".

I was out for 25km tonight and its a marked improvement but still not perfect I will take a look again more carefully tomorrow.

Thanks for the help so far as usual great information.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

at 3 months old its probably just shift cable stretch...

Learn to adjust it yourself or take it for an adjustment.

It's a good skill to have because you never know when it will act up. Lots of online videos to show how it's done.

Other common culprits could be

Bent derailleur hanger... often can be bent back to straight

dirty cables. Might need some silicon etc

Changing the lubrication of a chain can cause it to act differently sometimes. Especially now with more narrow chains like the 10 and 11 speeds. Might need to try some different lubes to find the one you like best.

Some lubes shift easier, quieter or louder etc.

[aarn]

Agree with CobraSNT. Possibly also need to adjust the high/low set screws for rear deraileur.

To start work, organise a comfortable position for yourself. I throw a length of rope over a beam, tie a knot at about eye level, then hoist the bike so the seat is supported by the rope

To take up the cable slack,

the hard way is to:

grip the free end of the rear gear cable in a pair of pliers.

Then loosen the nut holding the cable to the (rear) derailleur.

Then pull on the cable some, until it is taught but your are not causing the derailleur to move.

Then retighten (very firmly) that nut.

You will find a third and possibly fourth hand very useful for this procedure.

The easy way is to locate the adjuster mechanism where the rear gear cable stop contacts the derailleur,

and turn it counter clockwise (when viewed from the rear of the bike).

There are high/low adjuster screws somewhere on the derailleur, which may need a little tweaking.

The high/low adjuster screws delimit how far the chain can move laterally.

There are faint markings 'H' (high/smallest cog) and 'L'(low/largest cog) somewhere on the screw housing.

Shift the chain (front derailleur) to the second chainring,

move through all gears making sure you can get the largest and smallest cogs on the rear cluster.

As always, bicycle mechanics is best undertaken in the shade,

with access to munificent quantities of cleansing ale,

and usually entails the uttering of a litany of profanities.

If you would like some .pdfs with above procedures adequately illustrated, PM me.

Cheers, AA

[jambco984]

Agree with CobraSNT. Possibly also need to adjust the high/low set screws for rear deraileur.

 

To start work, organise a comfortable position for yourself. I throw a length of rope over a beam, tie a knot at about eye level, then hoist the bike so the seat is supported by the rope 

 

To take up the cable slack,

the hard way is to:

grip the free end of the rear gear cable in a pair of pliers.

Then loosen the nut holding the cable to the (rear) derailleur.

Then pull on the cable some, until it is taught but your are not causing the derailleur to move.

Then retighten (very firmly) that nut.

You will find a third and possibly fourth hand very useful for this procedure.

 

The easy way is to locate the adjuster mechanism where the rear gear cable stop contacts the derailleur,

and turn it counter clockwise (when viewed from the rear of the bike).

 

There are high/low adjuster screws somewhere on the derailleur, which may need a little tweaking.

The high/low adjuster screws delimit how far the chain can move laterally.

There are faint markings 'H' (high/smallest cog) and 'L'(low/largest cog) somewhere on the screw housing.

 

Shift the chain (front derailleur) to the second chainring,

move through all gears making sure you can get the largest and smallest cogs on the rear cluster.

 

As always, bicycle mechanics is best undertaken in the shade,

with access to munificent quantities of cleansing ale,

and usually entails the uttering of a litany of profanities.

 

If you would like some .pdfs with above procedures adequately illustrated, PM me.

Cheers, AA

Thanks for the info.

I have watched a fair few youtube videos on how to faff about with derailleurs front and back.

I have faffed about so much in fact that i havent been able to get out and about so don't know if I am still missing.

Pdf files would be great.

Are they of you completing the procedures or of you using expletives to convey your message?

[fdimike]

All this advice is wonderful but may not apply. Different models of Shimano deraileurs have different ways to adjust them. ie. My XT is adjusted at the gear shift lever after the initial installation. You need to first identify the make and model of the deraileur before doing anything. If it's Shimano then go to their web site and download the instructions. However, it's a whole easier to simply let your LBS handle the task as they should be familiar with the task and the would be a few baht. JMHO

[joeaverage]

Either your shift mechanism is out of adjustment or you have worn out the gear cartridge on the rear sprocket. Probably need a new rear gear cartridge and chain. If the teeth on the rear sprocket are rounded, then you need a new cartridge. I usually wear out a gear cartridge and chain once a year. Depends on how much and how far you usually ride.

The bike is 3ish months old.

It was fine before I oiled it.

How does a lay person like myself know if its out of adjustment? If worst comes to worst how much are we looking at for a new rear cartridge? It looks fine to me, not rounded as yet.

3 months old it is likely cable stretch, on the rear derailleur there are two stop adjust screws which limit how far in either direction the derailleur itself can travel. there is also a barrel to adjust cable tension, though if it is shifting properly in all other gears it is likely the stop adjustment that is out.

easy enough to adjust if you know what you are doing, if not take it to a bike shop and have them do it.

you will need suspend the bike and spin the pedals and wheel while making your adjustment.

to the individual who said all derailleurs are different, i have never encountered a derailleur that was not adjusted vial cable tension and stop screws, its pretty much universal

Edited June 26, 2013 by joeaverage

[jambco984]

I will try to find a bicycle shop again this weekend. The bicyclethailand.com page doesn't have many located in Ubon.

The few I have been to have been very low budget and crap TBH.

I hope I can find a half decent shop as I have done in other provinces.

The elusive Ubon bike shop.

I just can't find one. I have put 1 in my GPS it's near the airport so fingers crossed.

[fdimike]

There is a decent shop that I have been to in Ubon. From the traffic circle to the 3 way intersection close to Tesco Lotus turn right and turn left at the first traffic light. The shop is located about 150m on the left. I hope these instructions are correct as it has ben a long time since I was there. The owner is a friend of the owner of my LBS in Udon Thani. I'm on vacation in Italy right now but I'll try to check the bicycle thaioand site ton7ght.

[jambco984]

There is a decent shop that I have been to in Ubon. From the traffic circle to the 3 way intersection close to Tesco Lotus turn right and turn left at the first traffic light. The shop is located about 150m on the left. I hope these instructions are correct as it has ben a long time since I was there. The owner is a friend of the owner of my LBS in Udon Thani. I'm on vacation in Italy right now but I'll try to check the bicycle thaioand site ton7ght.

Many thanks.

Hope you're enjoying Italy my good man.

It's raining again here.

[jambco984]

There is a decent shop that I have been to in Ubon. From the traffic circle to the 3 way intersection close to Tesco Lotus turn right and turn left at the first traffic light. The shop is located about 150m on the left. I hope these instructions are correct as it has ben a long time since I was there. The owner is a friend of the owner of my LBS in Udon Thani. I'm on vacation in Italy right now but I'll try to check the bicycle thaioand site ton7ght.

I asked a co-worker about this shop as she lives near where you are talking about (Airport area). She said it has relocated to a few left and rights away but not far. She gave me a map so I will check it out. She thought it was called "M Bike", there is a shop that you described on bicyclethailand and that is called "MT Bike", ring any bells?

As I said I will check it out and let you know my findings.

[fdimike]

We're lovin it to say the least. It's not cheap but more than worth the cost. First thing we noticed was the absolute lack of trash strewn along the roadsides. Next, I'll be damned but these people know how to drive especially when entering/exiting a round-a-bout. The weather has been absolutely gorgeous as well.

Ok back to the topic. I believe the name of the shop was MT Bike. It was quite small but the guy certainly knew what he was doing and was a cyclist to boot.

Good luck. While there see if he has a master link for your chain. Many shops don't believe in them but I'm a believer and am a bit crazy when it comes to chain maintenance. Learned the subject the hard way on my first tour when I broke my chain. That's how I first found out about MT Bike. Lucky for me I broke it in Ubon and not out in the middle of no where. I knew very little about bicycle touring and was riding along with an experienced rider. I had no real tools or chain breaker etc. Whole nother story.

[jambco984]

Sounds good mate.

Well I found the shop in Ubon and found it useful for what I wanted. Although the owner seemed interested in selling bikes and interested in helping customers who where spending lots more money than me.

I got what I think is a SRAM link for a 100 baht.

Needed a new chain at 500 baht.

My wife asked him to check the rear cartridge was still ok and useable. The shop owner said it was fine so I left, the road was very busy so I was unable to test it there in my flip flops

I got home and found the same problem.

Today I took off the rear cartridge and gave it a good clean the 8th gear is worn and unusable, I couldn't see it for all the muck it had gathered. Won't be letting it get like that again.

I cannot get the SRAM link off it seems tighter than a tight thing, any advice?

I have watched lots of YouTube videos but they aren't helping.

Cheers

[fdimike]

Sorry my fault. I should have warned you that these shops are usually pretty busy on the weekends. I steer clear of my LBS in Udon on weekends unless absolutelt necessary.

Master link: First you need to make sure the chain is clean before installation as there is not much clearance to work with. Next you need to make sure the link is compatible with your chain. 9 speed chains are not the same size as 10 speed chains and there fore need a different link. I did a bit of research and it appears the Sram link is considered a one timeuselink on a 10 speed chain which isnotwhat you want. I have used KMC links in the past and found them quite easy to remove once you get the crap off thechain. You must squeeze the KMC link side plates while pushing the link ends towards each other. The two halfs of the link wil come apart at that point. I have since found the Connex link by Wipperman is the easiest to use. The one thing you must remember is that it can only be installed one way oryour low gear will skip. Www.connexchain.com

If what you have is the Sram link then you are going to needa chain breaker to get it off. I had the same

problem with another link and that's how I got it off. Once off trash it and buy the KMC for now. Check with the local shops to see if this link isavailable

(look at theweb site for a description). If you cannot find it and can waituntil I return from Our Europena

holiday on 10 July I'll be happy to buy a few for you and send themtoyou. Something to keep in mind - a 10

speed cassette uses a smaller chain which may impact the strength/longevity of the chain when compared to

a 9 speed. Remember a cheap cassette may no5 be the best for the type of ridi gyou'redoing.

Another hint - buy 2 chains and alternate them on your bike to increase the longevity of the cassette. Another good reason to have a connector installed on the chain. I usually swapt chains every 500kms unless I'm on a tour.

I hope this helps.

Edited June 30, 2013 by fdimike

[joeaverage]

When you sent the stand I gave it a good mucking out. First real clean in 400km Im bad I know.

I did oil it and give it a little wipe at 200km but not a lot.

It was ok until I cleaned it lol.

Now it has become a problem

Will take a look this evening or tomorrow morning

if it has never been cleaned there is a good possibility that when you did "muck it out" that the dirt you knocked off was hiding the wear, insulating between worn chain and sprockets. could also be cable stretch, though

Sounds good mate.

Well I found the shop in Ubon and found it useful for what I wanted. Although the owner seemed interested in selling bikes and interested in helping customers who where spending lots more money than me.

I got what I think is a SRAM link for a 100 baht.

Needed a new chain at 500 baht.

My wife asked him to check the rear cartridge was still ok and useable. The shop owner said it was fine so I left, the road was very busy so I was unable to test it there in my flip flops

I got home and found the same problem.

Today I took off the rear cartridge and gave it a good clean the 8th gear is worn and unusable, I couldn't see it for all the muck it had gathered. Won't be letting it get like that again.

I cannot get the SRAM link off it seems tighter than a tight thing, any advice?

I have watched lots of YouTube videos but they aren't helping.

Cheers

yeah, if you replace sprockets you pretty much have to replace chain as they wear together.

i wouldnt do much business with a bike shop that tells you otherwise.

Edited July 2, 2013 by joeaverage

[jambco984]

Sorry my fault. I should have warned you that these shops are usually pretty busy on the weekends. I steer clear of my LBS in Udon on weekends unless absolutelt necessary.

Master link: First you need to make sure the chain is clean before installation as there is not much clearance to work with. Next you need to make sure the link is compatible with your chain. 9 speed chains are not the same size as 10 speed chains and there fore need a different link. I did a bit of research and it appears the Sram link is considered a one timeuselink on a 10 speed chain which isnotwhat you want. I have used KMC links in the past and found them quite easy to remove once you get the crap off thechain. You must squeeze the KMC link side plates while pushing the link ends towards each other. The two halfs of the link wil come apart at that point. I have since found the Connex link by Wipperman is the easiest to use. The one thing you must remember is that it can only be installed one way oryour low gear will skip. Www.connexchain.com

If what you have is the Sram link then you are going to needa chain breaker to get it off. I had the same

problem with another link and that's how I got it off. Once off trash it and buy the KMC for now. Check with the local shops to see if this link isavailable

(look at theweb site for a description). If you cannot find it and can waituntil I return from Our Europena

holiday on 10 July I'll be happy to buy a few for you and send themtoyou. Something to keep in mind - a 10

speed cassette uses a smaller chain which may impact the strength/longevity of the chain when compared to

a 9 speed. Remember a cheap cassette may no5 be the best for the type of ridi gyou'redoing.

Another hint - buy 2 chains and alternate them on your bike to increase the longevity of the cassette. Another good reason to have a connector installed on the chain. I usually swapt chains every 500kms unless I'm on a tour.

I hope this helps.

When you sent the stand I gave it a good mucking out. First real clean in 400km Im bad I know.

I did oil it and give it a little wipe at 200km but not a lot.

It was ok until I cleaned it lol.

Now it has become a problem

Will take a look this evening or tomorrow morning

if it has never been cleaned there is a good possibility that when you did "muck it out" that the dirt you knocked off was hiding the wear, insulating between worn chain and sprockets. could also be cable stretch, though

Sounds good mate.

Well I found the shop in Ubon and found it useful for what I wanted. Although the owner seemed interested in selling bikes and interested in helping customers who where spending lots more money than me.

I got what I think is a SRAM link for a 100 baht.

Needed a new chain at 500 baht.

My wife asked him to check the rear cartridge was still ok and useable. The shop owner said it was fine so I left, the road was very busy so I was unable to test it there in my flip flops

I got home and found the same problem.

Today I took off the rear cartridge and gave it a good clean the 8th gear is worn and unusable, I couldn't see it for all the muck it had gathered. Won't be letting it get like that again.

I cannot get the SRAM link off it seems tighter than a tight thing, any advice?

I have watched lots of YouTube videos but they aren't helping.

Cheers

yeah, if you replace sprockets you pretty much have to replace chain as they wear together.

i wouldnt do much business with a bike shop that tells you otherwise.

Hello there my TV app hasn't been working of recent, same old problems, not loading up and then uninstalling itself. Similar with my work internet, bag of crap.

I am only free really of a weekend and don't much fancy making a special 100km round trip during the week.

I will head into town again this weekend and see what I can see. There is a shop called Yudee Cycle and the young lad and his family are genuinely nice and willing to help. The other chap at MT only seems to care about pound signs.

If I cannot see what you're talking about I will call on your help when you get back from your jollies in Europe, thanks Mike.

My bike is a 24 speed so 8 on the back and 3 on the front.

The rear derailleur says on it that it's a 8/9 speed so I guess I need the smaller link, am I correct in assuming this?

My rear cartridge configuration is a solid block of 7 and 8th gear is a stand alone cog. How much do these start and go upto, price wise? Do you think it's better to upgrade to single cogs? Or a better mixture of cogs, I tend to use 8th quite a lot as I'm sure I should do.

Yeah I feel 'mucking her out' has caused the wear to show itself more.

I will try this other bike shop as I said the family and especially young chap seem very nice and willing to help.

As you can guess I am a biking novice so need all the help I can get.

I am learning slowly but surely and your stand you sent me Mike has helped me to do lots of things that I would never have done otherwise. This is my list of things I have done,

Removing the rear cartridge and cleaning it (Used Kerosene, is that ok?)

Checked the brakes and tweaked them to what I think (and youtube video) is the right setting.

What else can I be doing to have a happy ride and happy bike??

Regards

jambco984

Sent from a pain in the a***e internet connection. I hope my copying and pasting have worked well and everything is in the correct order.

Edited July 2, 2013 by jambco984

[joeaverage]

generally speaking you cannot upgrade a single cog, the cassette is a one piece set with the smallest cog threaded on to hold the rest in place.

depending on the component group, rear cassettes can get pretty minty, what king of rear hub are you running? the cassette is usually matched to the rear hub.

you can lube cables with a nice light syn lube, i doubt it is time to start repacking headsets, bottom brackets or hubs yet.

[fdimike]

Ok let me first say thst what joeaverage is saying is mostly true. As far as I know there is no requirement to match hub and cassette brands. I'using a Shimano Xt cassette & derailleur and another brand sealed bearing hub (can't recall the brand). Here'swhat I would do. Have the cassette checked by a LBS replace the entire cassette. I have no experience with Sram but understand it's a good brand. The key is to choose the best model you can afford because better gear material will usually last longer. I use the Shimano Xt because it's not only lighter but alsobetter steel/alloy. The XTR model has titanium gears but is also very exoensive. You need to research the manufacturer's web site to see which is best before choosing. When replacing the cassette it's best to replace the chain as well so they wear together. The choice of chain manufacturer is the same as the cassette. Research befire you buy.

Link: since you have an 8 speed cassette you should be able remove the link. Get the LBS to show you how to do it or check out the net for instructions. I find that the KMC & Wipperman links are the easiest to remove with the Connex (wipperman) link the easiest. Dirt is always a problem when trying to get the link apart so you may have to spray a bit of WD40 or the like to get the crapmoff the link to openit.

Chain lube: normally comres in at least 2 varieties dry weather & wet. I like the Finish Line brand which comes in at least 4 different varities. Currently using the Ceramic Dry lube whic I find works well and doesn't attrack a lot of dirt. I would advise staying away from WD40 and any similar lubes as they will attract a lot of crap.

Kerosene: Excellent for cleaning the gears, derailleurs etc. Use a hose to wash it off after cleaning anf the crap will come off with it leaving behind a light oil film to prevent rust. Sun dry the bike/chain after cleaning.

Cables: generally speaking there is no need to lube tge cables. If you are rwally concerned use Jagwire teflon coated cables which are excellent.

Bottom brackets, hubs etc: get the LBS to check them out to see they need to be cleaned and re-greased. Much depends on where you are riding and the brand/model of each. Some come with sealed bearings and don't require much maintenance.

I hope I covered everything. If not get back to me and I'll do my best to help you to iclude buying whatever you need in Udon to ship to you when I return. Yikes Switzerland is god awful expensive!!

Mike

[rebo]

Here http://forums.adventurecycling.org/index.php?topic=10328.0 (last post on the page) you see a trick how to remove the SRAM master link with ease. It works perfectly but you may ask someone for assistance (Let him/her pull the string ends, so you'll spare him/her the finger scrubbing ...)

I personally prefer my Leatherman pliers which I use "diagonally" on the master link. With a bit of experience it takes about one second and the fingers remain clean.

Edited July 3, 2013 by rebo

[jambco984]

Thanks for the replies chaps. It's sleep time soon so don't have time to be "in-depth"'. I will get onto it tomorrow.

I checked the cassette earlier and on the sides it says I'm running.....

I think a ......

Shimano Hyperglide HG.

CS-HG 31-8.

What does that mean? I guess the 8 is the speed? Clueless folks.

Does that make any sense? That cassette has done me 600km ish. Does that sounds right?

How much roughly would the exact same cassette cost me? I don't want to spend a fortune but don't mind paying for a decent set up.

Thanks for the info as always thanks.

Darren

[jambco984]

With a Shimano Altus 8/9 speed rear derailleur

[fdimike]

Hi Darren

I think the cassette is an ok model but the derailleur is a lower end Shimano model. Much depends on where you ride and the distances involved.

You will find that the higher end Shimano components will operate smoother for the most part, are lighter and I would say more durable, but will cost more. You'vegot to fin a LBS you like and de elop a relationship with them for good service and pricing.

If I were you I would replace the entire set with an Shimano SLK model. I'm not sure of the pricing for these components as I use the XT model. The cassette cost me about 2500THB but with care will lasta very long time. I also use a Shimano XTR chain and clean it often. I use a Connex link ffom Wipperman wnich is the easiest link to remove and install. No tools are necessary. All you have to do is grasp the chain on both sides of the link and push them together forming the letter Z. The link will come right apart. Installation is even easier as all you need to do is line up the holes with the pins and push them together.