Olde Bell Closing Down Sale

[wolf5370]

Did there used to be a pizzeria where this pub is now located?

Yeah Happy Pizza (Toni owned it before he opened up Yummie on Canal Rd) - was a Bistro after that also (Canadian guy called Devon owned that).

[OldeBellPedr]

Just thought I would point out many Thai business suffer the same fate.

The more successful you are, the more the landlord ups the rent.

Until eventually the business becomes unprofitable and closes.

It's one of the reasons many Thai business suddenly move.

At least it wasn't discrimination that got you.

Good luck & best wishes!

You are absolutely correct. The Thai/Chinese own everything in Chiang Mai (and indeed in Thailand) and shaft the Thais as regularly as they do the Farang. It has happened all over South East Asia and is a reason why, there have been pogroms around the region: in The Philippines, in Malaysia, and most recently in 1998 in Jakarta when several hundred ethnic Chinese were murdered by Indonesians. The Chinese business approach is ruthless, predatory and without ethics and sometimes the local inhabitants feel they have had enough.

[Beetlejuice]

Where is the Dog and Bone ?

About 50 m off Hang Dong Road, opp the big Sony sign, so travelling

south from CM turn left into the soi that's pretty well opp the Sony sign

Past Big C, past traffic lights, past Makro, left after 7/11

Yep, Ban WanTan turn off - big fruit sign on left, even bigger Sony sign on right - about 10m around the corner

The Ban Wan Tan went down hill a few years ago. The last time I visited there, the place was deserted. The whole atmosphere of this restaurant seems to have disappeared and gave it up as another dead loss.

I am sad to hear that the Olde Bell will be closing it`s doors for the very last time in a few days, but it really doesn`t come as a huge surprise.

I know that the intentions of the police and other powers that be are to eventually close down all the Western style adult entertainments and certain restaurants in the Loi Kroh Road, by means of one way or another, but mostly by making the scene as non-viable.

I have warned about this many times in my past threads and posts. I saw the writing on the wall long ago and is truly a great disappointment, Western tourist wise and for us ex-pats in Chiang Mai.

The area is in desperate need of an injection of new vibrance, energy and activity, but it appears the authorities have other plans and ideas for the Loi Kroh Road and surrounding areas. I think it has become a non-event and hardly worth visiting these days.

I have been told that some of the remaining big restaurants are also not doing so well at the moment, due to the ever dwindling bahts for Western currencies exchange rates, hyped up rents, massive decline in Chiang Mai Western tourism and the continuing clamp downs and restrictions placed on these establishments by the authorities.

Sorry to appear so pessimistic, but It`s all looking very grim indeed and cannot visage any improvements in the foreseeable future.

[wolf5370]

Yep, Ban WanTan turn off - big fruit sign on left, even bigger Sony sign on right - about 10m around the corner

The Ban Wan Tan went down hill a few years ago. The last time I visited there, the place was deserted. The whole atmosphere of this restaurant seems to have disappeared and gave it up as another dead loss.

I am sad to hear that the Olde Bell will be closing it`s doors for the very last time in a few days, but it really doesn`t come as a huge surprise.

I know that the intentions of the police and other powers that be are to eventually close down all the Western style adult entertainments and certain restaurants in the Loi Kroh Road, by means of one way or another, but mostly by making the scene as non-viable.

I have warned about this many times in my past threads and posts. I saw the writing on the wall long ago and is truly a great disappointment, Western tourist wise and for us ex-pats in Chiang Mai.

The area is in desperate need of an injection of new vibrance, energy and activity, but it appears the authorities have other plans and ideas for the Loi Kroh Road and surrounding areas. I think it has become a non-event and hardly worth visiting these days.

I have been told that some of the remaining big restaurants are also not doing so well at the moment, due to the ever dwindling bahts for Western currencies exchange rates, hyped up rents, massive decline in Chiang Mai Western tourism and the continuing clamp downs and restrictions placed on these establishments by the authorities.

Sorry to appear so pessimistic, but It`s all looking very grim indeed and cannot visage any improvements in the foreseeable future.

Its not in Ban WanTan, it's just the turn off from Chiang Mai Hod - about 2 clicks from Ban WanTan.

I have the opposite view of the Ban WanTan restaurant though perhaps. Maybe 4 years ago or so, I went to the restaurant their for the first time with about 10 people. After finding 3 small cockroaches in my Hor Mok (and they just said, "oh sorry - we won't charge you for that Hor Mok!") I didn't go again for another 3 years. Then maybe a year ago I went to watch some friends play there and ate at the restaurant again - the service was 100 times better and the food much, much better and faster. However, not somewhere I frequent generally so maybe bad and good days.

The Old Belle wasn't adult entertainment (like many of the bars in Loy Kroh perhaps), it was a standard British style bistro pub. From the other post (George's one), it seems it was the rent hikes that made Petr look at moving on. It is never easy here in tourist areas, as the buildings and land are invariably owned by the powerful and here that means money grabbing cold hearted a-holes clueless about business (dollar signs in their eyes blind their brain into thinking everyone else is a gullible <deleted> willing to grease their gravy train) - unfortunately this also means they usually can afford to sit on it waiting for that gullible <deleted> to come along.

[bristolgeoff]

shame he is going,but thai landlords thinks you are making good money.it will be empty for awhile.look at the old tiger bar near tony,s big bike.since it was closed no one has moved in there.i also would think of moving to another location would be a good idea if he wanted too

[ramrod711]

Sorry to see you close Pedr, i don't blame you for doing it though. There are vacant shops and houses all around the city because of greedy landlords. If more people would refuse to meet their demands reality may set in. I think we all know someone who has moved house because of ridiculous rent demands and then watched the house sit vacant for years.

Best of luck in what ever you do next.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, they are not closing because of the greedy landlord. They were already trying to sell the pub and the landlord wanted to raise the rent on the new tenant who was interested in buying the business.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/648996-the-olde-bell-closing-permanently-on-june-30-2013/?p=6543229

[hml367]

Actually, they are not closing because of the greedy landlord. They were already trying to sell the pub and the landlord wanted to raise the rent on the new tenant who was interested in buying the business.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/648996-the-olde-bell-closing-permanently-on-june-30-2013/?p=6543229

UG, you are ruining their fun!

[khwaibah]

Actually, they are not closing because of the greedy landlord. They were already trying to sell the pub and the landlord wanted to raise the rent on the new tenant who was interested in buying the business.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/648996-the-olde-bell-closing-permanently-on-june-30-2013/?p=6543229

UG, you are ruining their fun!

http://chiangmaiproperties.co.th/business/sale/Restaurant-business-can-run-in-town/B163.aspx

[heazille]

Where is the Dog and Bone ?

Go past Makro, past the next Seven 11 and immediate turn left.

One of the best pool tables in Chiang Mai and a smattering of rather good players!

Richard

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Actually, they are not closing because of the greedy landlord. They were already trying to sell the pub and the landlord wanted to raise the rent on the new tenant who was interested in buying the business.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/648996-the-olde-bell-closing-permanently-on-june-30-2013/?p=6543229

At 2.9 million baht to take over the lease, plus the bar furnishings and equipment, wouldn't there be a little money left to kick back to the landlord in a single payment to keep the rent the same for the next 5 years or so.. Say they'd want to raise by a ludicrous amount like 10K / month.. Over 5 years is 600K. But when paid in a single sum and some negotiation, you could say "Here is 500K of my 2.9 mil. Keep the rent the way it is for the next 5 years. Buy your kids a new car or som'tin." Or agree on a modest rent increase. Now everybody loses..

EDIT: Oh wait.. looks like Pedr did exactly that to no avail. Info was right there in the CM News sub-section. (that I don't normally get to.)

Anyway, to potential business owners: if rents downtown are around the 600K / year mark for a double shophouse, meaning 50K per month, then I strongly suggest to not bother with the renting/lease/key money game, but make it a proper company, let the company BUY a (double) shophouse and mortgage it with the bank, meaning the monthly mortgage payments come in well below 50K / month, with the added guarantee and security that the 'rent' will NEVER go up and you're never kicked out.

Clearly, buying a shophouse directly on lower LK would be a difficult and very expensive exercise, but in many ways that location isn't all that great anyway unless you want to run a hooker bar. Shophouses down the sois could be feasible though. It remains a very risky business of course, bars and restaurants. The list of places that eventually closed is a very long one. Queen Victoria comes to mind: absolutely nothing was wrong with that place.

Edited June 26, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[jackr]

The area is in desperate need of an injection of new vibrance, energy and activity, but it appears the authorities have other plans and ideas for the Loi Kroh Road and surrounding areas. I think it has become a non-event and hardly worth visiting these days.

A quaint-looking, adjunct to the Bazaar would be my guess so the swathes of visitors from the 'north' can go 'cor brimey' from the window of their 100-foot high luxury coach!

Edited June 26, 2013 by jackr

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The area is in desperate need of an injection of new vibrance, energy and activity, but it appears the authorities have other plans and ideas for the Loi Kroh Road and surrounding areas. I think it has become a non-event and hardly worth visiting these days.

A quaint-looking, adjunct to the Bazaar would be my guess so the swathes of visitors from the 'north' can go 'cor brimey' from the window of their 100-foot high luxury coach!

You never talked with a Chinese tourist in your life, haven't you?

[jackr]

^^ or 'have I'? I don't quite get the syntax or what talking to a tourist has to do with tour buses (you must have noticed them right?)... but on the contrary, my two years trekking the world brought me into contact with many nationalities--Chinese, Japanese, Malay, Khmer, Aboriginal, Maori, Hawaiian, Fijian--you name it, probably even your type. I don't see the connection, sorry.

[jackr]

Actually, they are not closing because of the greedy landlord. They were already trying to sell the pub and the landlord wanted to raise the rent on the new tenant who was interested in buying the business.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/648996-the-olde-bell-closing-permanently-on-june-30-2013/?p=6543229

Perhaps offer to pay the first couple years rent and at least get something out of it... ?

[oldsailor35]

Reading between the lines, i see a greedy Thai owner of the premises, seeing a successful business, deciding that he/she is entitled to a larger share of the profits produced by the hard work of the farang operator. This happens all the time. Same here on Samui with the Lazy Coconut,a popular Maenam pub, owner got greedy, so the farang operators just closed down, the place has been empty for about 12 mths now ! also nearby shops owned by same person. Will they ever learn.

Edited June 26, 2013 by oldsailor35

[rene123]

None of us know all the details, so all we can do is surmise. There is no question that something is happening behind the scene. Even I could see the harassment by the police on bars on upper Loi Kroh road. All I can say is to wish Pedr and his family all the best for his future. It is obvious that many here hold him in high regard, and that says something for his integrity.

[Loaded]

Not sure why there are all these negative comments about Chinese Thais considering that when a farang loses his life savings, it's usually to an uneducated Thai female from a rural area of Thailand. In general, the Chinese prosper because they work hard and this prosperity is often viewed jealously by people who don't work hard and aren't prepared to risk/invest their own money in a business. There are bad apples everywhere, but most of the ones I've met in Thailand were not Chinese Thai. For example, most Thai policemen are not Chinese Thai. Most corrupt local government officers are not Chinese Thai.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Loaded

[Chiengmaijoe]

Talk of the authorities wanting to close the bars on Loi Kroh rd has been running for years. At least 5 years ago I heard that they weren't giving out alcohol licences to new bars and since then the bars have extended all the way to the night bazaar. Before, there were hardly any bars beyond half way besides Chiangmai Saloon and the bar beer centre. All I see is an increase in policing the bars for breaking one rule or another but other than that I've seen no slow down in new bars springing up. Not to mention the massage shops. The increase in bars and the change in the demographics is what is making life on Loi Kroh so difficult. More couples and families, and more Asian tourists is why Loi Kroh is suffering. It isn't offering what the people want. There are plenty of busy established pubs and restaurants in chiang Mai but none of them are on Loi Kroh.

[barlinnie]

Where is the Dog and Bone ?

About 50 m off Hang Dong Road, opp the big Sony sign, so travelling

south from CM turn left into the soi that's pretty well opp the Sony sign

The Dog and Bone is my local too. Good company and farang food. Also they have recently taken on a Thai cook so Thai food is good too. Good pool table and Steve arranges regular pool competitions. Worth supporting guys! So sorry my fellow countryman Pedr is going - best of luck in your future ventures Pedr! Iechyd da!!!!

[theblether]

There's a lot of speculation on this thread about the fate of the Olde Bell. I know Pedr and I can see why he is deeply irritated at the actions of his landlord, but it's ever thus in Thailand. This 3 + 3 system is a joke, and arbitrary rent rises are even worse.

I looked at the bar and restaurant business here three years ago and nearly went for a deal on a very substantial property. The Red shirt protests started and I decided I couldn't back this horse. I regard it as a lucky escape.

In my case though I had negotiated a 10 year lease with fixed increases after year 3 / 5 / and 8. I knew that if the deal had gone well that after 10 years the rent would go through the roof, but that's the price you pay for doing business in this country. Quite frankly I would have looked to have rammed all the profit out of the place long before that then walked away.

When you know the cards are stacked against you there's nothing else you can do.

I happen to know a few bar and restaurant owners well in Chiang Mai and virtually all of them feel that they are trapped in a Alice In Wonderland nightmare. If they were left to get on with it they would get some enjoyment and profit from the trade, but too many feel they are at the mercy of anyone in a uniform, anyone with a badge. Random taxes and demands pop up from everywhere, everyone has their hands out. It's a cruel game in this town.

Pedr has put his hands up and admitted to a couple of mistakes, that's the mark of the man that he is. I personally feel this is a blessing in disguise for Pedr, some things have been irritating him, one thing being about the amount if time the business takes up. I can see a near future where he will have a far more stable lifestyle and far more time to spend with the three people that matter most to him, ( that's including your Dad Pedr ).

I've been in business for years, seen it done it, and in one case lost a company that I loved due to the banking crisis. That was a blow, but after that I decided that I wasn't going to get stressed out by all that bs any more. As the old saying goes......

" We don't live to work, we work to live "

To anyone in business, or starting out, you must always have an exit strategy. You must always remember that the business is there to improve your life, not ruin it.......and always take the profit off the table. Too many businessmen forget that.

The best thing that happened to me was losing that business I loved, it made me re-evaluate what I wanted from life and my life has improved from that date. My greatest wish for Pedr and his beautiful family is that one day soon he will feel the same way.

All the best Pedr.

[flamesfan]

Ive only been into the Olde Bell a few times but each time it was great food and wonderful atmosphere. Sad to hear that youre closing down and will try and make it there this Thursday.

I wish you both all the best in your future endeavours

Regards Andy

Sorry to hear you are closing down Pedr! You have been a great neighbor and I have sent many a tourist to your establishment and have only received glowing reports. My apologies for not visiting frequently enough but I will definitely get over there for a cold one with you before you close. I will not be back into Chiang Mai until late on the 27th, so maybe I could get there on the 28th and have a beer and look at some of your inventory!

I wish you the best health and prosperity in your new life!!

Regards,

Peter Ficzere (Wild Boar)

[harrry]

Have you put in an offer for that scrap of cloth behind the bar theblether.

I have only been to the place once and had a great time. If I went to pubs it would be the one I would go to. I wish Pedr all the best for the future whatever he does.

[theblether]

Have you put in an offer for that scrap of cloth behind the bar theblether.

I have only been to the place once and had a great time. If I went to pubs it would be the one I would go to. I wish Pedr all the best for the future whatever he does.

Have you seen the state of it

[harrry]

Have you put in an offer for that scrap of cloth behind the bar theblether.

I have only been to the place once and had a great time. If I went to pubs it would be the one I would go to. I wish Pedr all the best for the future whatever he does.

Have you seen the state of it

Some sasanach may buy it for target practice. You could save it. It will cost though.

Edited June 26, 2013 by harrry

[AnotherOneAmerican]

shame he is going,but thai landlords thinks you are making good money.it will be empty for awhile.look at the old tiger bar near tony,s big bike.since it was closed no one has moved in there.i also would think of moving to another location would be a good idea if he wanted too

Off topic, Tony big bikes is out and Tonys (Mrs) coffee shop is in.

Just in the Petronis petrol station grounds opposite to Tiger Kingdom on Moon Muang.

Organic coffee for 30bht a cup.

[dalstonbill]

Always found Peder friendly. Always enjoyed the quiz. People who bitch about certain bars usually have ulterior motives. Some are jealous. Some want business to badly because they had a bad experience - perhaps got refused service because too drunk or loutish? The "clique" I drank with usually made strangers or first timers feel welcome. And as to those defending the landlady, with "that's business" platitudes and claims that is the market rent need to consider how a bar business can afford this new rent level. You've got take 80K a month to pay rent, staff wages, utilities etc before you make a setang for yourself. [How many drinks and meals would you have to sell to achieve that?] But it's OK and not greedy of the landlady to take over 50K of that 80K? If you think that, fine. Sad reflection on you though. Good luck Peder.

[tyznd]

Where is the Dog and Bone ?

Go past Makro, past the next Seven 11 and immediate turn left.

One of the best pool tables in Chiang Mai and a smattering of rather good players!

Richard

How is the parking for someone with a car?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Not too difficult. It's a fairly large soi, should be able to park not too far.

[stoli]

If you have never owned a restaurant, you have no idea how much work moving entails. Make sure that you have the power, outlets, gas connections, water connection for sinks, exhaust hood for grilling & frying. etc., etc.

It is not like taking your racks of clothes that are on wheels and moving them across town.

My heart goes out to you for having to make this decision to close, but you life will become more enjoyable also. Good luck.....