My guess is for some reason (imaginary or otherwise) the landlady did not want to continue renting to Pedr. Economics do not come into things once that decision is made nor does fairness.

The only way to stop things like that happening is to buy your own place but that also has downsides.

As far as goodwill goes Pubs do not have much real goodwill here much of the reguar trade leaves with the owner and the high season is largely new business. Only thing buying a place helps with is getting the furniture and equipment without having to go and source it and hopefully at a fair depreciated price. It did not work out this time but I hope the future is better.

The landlord sets the terms and conditions of a lease or rental agreement because they own the building. The tenant doesn't set the terms and conditions. The tenant is free to negotiate though. I'm a little surprised Pedr wrote: "6 months before that contract ended she announced that she felt it was her job to draw up the contract not ours".

The lease expired and the landlord set new terms and conditions for the new lease. The tenant feels they are at a disadvantage as the owner of the building controls the terms and conditions of the lease. The tenant is frustrated with the owner of the building. Contracts are legally binding agreements and any breach can be addressed through the civil courts. The tenant can refuse to sign a new lease if they disagree with the terms and conditions. How is it different in the West?

Pedr didn't manage to find a buyer for his business despite trying to sell it for many years. The sale fell through and he's greatly upset. I can sympathize with him. However, the greed of the Chinese is being blamed. I don't agree. I feel some of the remarks aimed at Chinese Thais on this thread are highly offensive. If 'Chinese Thai' were swapped for 'Jew' or 'Black' or 'homosexual' or 'luk-krueng', I think the OP may possibly recognize this as well. I hope so.

Edited June 28, 201313 yr by Loaded

The landlord sets the terms and conditions of a lease or rental agreement because they own the building. The tenant doesn't set the terms and conditions. The tenant is free to negotiate though. I'm a little surprised Pedr wrote: "6 months before that contract ended she announced that she felt it was her job to draw up the contract not ours".

The lease expired and the landlord set new terms and conditions for the new lease. The tenant feels they are at a disadvantage as the owner of the building controls the terms and conditions of the lease. The tenant is frustrated with the owner of the building. Contracts are legally binding agreements and any breach can be addressed through the civil courts. The tenant can refuse to sign a new lease if they disagree with the terms and conditions. How is it different in the West?

Pedr didn't manage to find a buyer for his business despite trying to sell it for many years. The sale fell through and he's greatly upset. I can sympathize with him. However, the greed of the Chinese is being blamed. I don't agree. I feel some of the remarks aimed at Chinese Thais on this thread are highly offensive. If 'Chinese Thai' were swapped for 'Jew' or 'Black' or 'luk-krueng', I think the OP may possibly recognize this as well. I hope so.

I do not in any way wish to be racist about this, that is your spin. My wife is ethnically Thai/Chinese and therefore my son has some Chinese blood so why would I be racist about them? The fact is that Thai/Chinese own 90% of properties here and there are some common strands in the way they do business.

If you think that the letting laws in this country are fair and equitable, that's up to you - as your name implies you must be loaded.

take a look at http://www.leasingbusinesspremises.co.uk/downloads/occupier_guide.pdf to see how a fair balance can be struck between landlord and tenant.

The landlord sets the terms and conditions of a lease or rental agreement because they own the building. The tenant doesn't set the terms and conditions. The tenant is free to negotiate though. I'm a little surprised Pedr wrote: "6 months before that contract ended she announced that she felt it was her job to draw up the contract not ours".

The lease expired and the landlord set new terms and conditions for the new lease. The tenant feels they are at a disadvantage as the owner of the building controls the terms and conditions of the lease. The tenant is frustrated with the owner of the building. Contracts are legally binding agreements and any breach can be addressed through the civil courts. The tenant can refuse to sign a new lease if they disagree with the terms and conditions. How is it different in the West?

Pedr didn't manage to find a buyer for his business despite trying to sell it for many years. The sale fell through and he's greatly upset. I can sympathize with him. However, the greed of the Chinese is being blamed. I don't agree. I feel some of the remarks aimed at Chinese Thais on this thread are highly offensive. If 'Chinese Thai' were swapped for 'Jew' or 'Black' or 'luk-krueng', I think the OP may possibly recognize this as well. I hope so.

I do not in any way wish to be racist about this, that is your spin. My wife is ethnically Thai/Chinese and therefore my son has some Chinese blood so why would I be racist about them? The fact is that Thai/Chinese own 90% of properties here and there are some common strands in the way they do business.

If you think that the letting laws in this country are fair and equitable, that's up to you - as your name implies you must be loaded.

take a look at http://www.leasingbusinesspremises.co.uk/downloads/occupier_guide.pdf to see how a fair balance can be struck between landlord and tenant.

You wrote:

"The Thai/Chinese own everything in Chiang Mai (and indeed in Thailand) and shaft the Thais as regularly as they do the Farang. It has happened all over South East Asia and is a reason why, there have been pogroms around the region: in The Philippines, in Malaysia, and most recently in 1998 in Jakarta when several hundred ethnic Chinese were murdered by Indonesians. The Chinese business approach is ruthless, predatory and without ethics and sometimes the local inhabitants feel they have had enough."

I wrote:

"If 'Chinese Thai' were swapped for 'Jew' or 'Black' or 'homosexual' or 'luk-krueng', I think the OP may possibly recognize this as well. I hope so."

You wrote:

"I do not in any way wish to be racist about this, that is your spin."

Just thought I would point out many Thai business suffer the same fate.

The more successful you are, the more the landlord ups the rent.

Until eventually the business becomes unprofitable and closes.

It's one of the reasons many Thai business suddenly move.

At least it wasn't discrimination that got you.

Good luck & best wishes!

You are absolutely correct. The Thai/Chinese own everything in Chiang Mai (and indeed in Thailand) and shaft the Thais as regularly as they do the Farang. It has happened all over South East Asia and is a reason why, there have been pogroms around the region: in The Philippines, in Malaysia, and most recently in 1998 in Jakarta when several hundred ethnic Chinese were murdered by Indonesians. The Chinese business approach is ruthless, predatory and without ethics and sometimes the local inhabitants feel they have had enough.

I believe that Pedr should read what he wrote in this post. This is prima facie racism. It would have been better to have left with some dignity. Instead, he has stimulated some astonishing and equally racist comments. I really don;t understand why this garbage remains on this thread and in this forum.

Prima Facie racism..... what a load of rot. The only 2 people that seem to be taking offence and have mentioned the Chinese Thai angle more than anyone appears to be TV member Loaded with a follow up by Mapguy.

Pedr has stated the facts. Be it history or otherwise.Too much PC crap destroys an otherwise good forum that lets us know whats going on.

There have only been 2 members that are pushing the racism envelope..... hey why dont you just go somewhere else and hug a tree.

Not sure why there are all these negative comments about Chinese Thais considering that when a farang loses his life savings, it's usually to an uneducated Thai female from a rural area of Thailand. In general, the Chinese prosper because they work hard and this prosperity is often viewed jealously by people who don't work hard and aren't prepared to risk/invest their own money in a business. There are bad apples everywhere, but most of the ones I've met in Thailand were not Chinese Thai. For example, most Thai policemen are not Chinese Thai. Most corrupt local government officers are not Chinese Thai.

Because when you get landlords who make all their money from renting out land they own to people who do all the hard work developing businesses, while said landlords sit on their <deleted> working hard to count all the rent money they get, it seems a little unfair in life.

Landlords prosper through being parasites. It's not conducive to giving them too much respect really. Greed is ugly.

Sorry, that is not how it is. You are being overly emotional and not thinking rationally.

Not sure why there are all these negative comments about Chinese Thais considering that when a farang loses his life savings, it's usually to an uneducated Thai female from a rural area of Thailand. In general, the Chinese prosper because they work hard and this prosperity is often viewed jealously by people who don't work hard and aren't prepared to risk/invest their own money in a business. There are bad apples everywhere, but most of the ones I've met in Thailand were not Chinese Thai. For example, most Thai policemen are not Chinese Thai. Most corrupt local government officers are not Chinese Thai.

Because when you get landlords who make all their money from renting out land they own to people who do all the hard work developing businesses, while said landlords sit on their <deleted> working hard to count all the rent money they get, it seems a little unfair in life.

Landlords prosper through being parasites. It's not conducive to giving them too much respect really. Greed is ugly.

Sorry, that is not how it is. You are being overly emotional and not thinking rationally.

Strange as some people may think but I tend to agree with your comment as you portrait it. Some landlords, as do some business owners (Same thing really) do not only provide for themselves but encourage future expansion/growth of business. Not all people sit on their backsides and just count money.

Maybe just maybe, femi fan has not yet been in the situation where he/she has been able to be a landlord or business owner. And if it appears that you are always the one 'paying' (as a result) then one may become a bit emotive about that.

One post reported as profane removed

Not sure why there are all these negative comments about Chinese Thais considering that when a farang loses his life savings, it's usually to an uneducated Thai female from a rural area of Thailand. In general, the Chinese prosper because they work hard and this prosperity is often viewed jealously by people who don't work hard and aren't prepared to risk/invest their own money in a business. There are bad apples everywhere, but most of the ones I've met in Thailand were not Chinese Thai. For example, most Thai policemen are not Chinese Thai. Most corrupt local government officers are not Chinese Thai.

Because when you get landlords who make all their money from renting out land they own to people who do all the hard work developing businesses, while said landlords sit on their <deleted> working hard to count all the rent money they get, it seems a little unfair in life.

Landlords prosper through being parasites. It's not conducive to giving them too much respect really. Greed is ugly.

Sorry, that is not how it is. You are being overly emotional and not thinking rationally.

Strange as some people may think but I tend to agree with your comment as you portrait it. Some landlords, as do some business owners (Same thing really) do not only provide for themselves but encourage future expansion/growth of business. Not all people sit on their backsides and just count money.

Maybe just maybe, femi fan has not yet been in the situation where he/she has been able to be a landlord or business owner. And if it appears that you are always the one 'paying' (as a result) then one may become a bit emotive about that.

Even if all they do IS sit on their backsides and just count money that makes them no less or more virtuous than someone less fortunate and/or more industrious. It's legal and it's perfectly legitimate way of earning a living. If one doesn't wish to buy or rent from such a person, then one needn't do so.

You don't need have been a landlord or a business owner to be logical and objective (and to not be befuddled by juvenile notions of the oppressive classes and resentment towards those who have success). Capitalism. Some are good (or lucky) at it and that doesn't necessarily make them bad people...

Prima Facie racism..... what a load of rot. The only 2 people that seem to be taking offence and have mentioned the Chinese Thai angle more than anyone appears to be TV member Loaded with a follow up by Mapguy.

Pedr has stated the facts. Be it history or otherwise.Too much PC crap destroys an otherwise good forum that lets us know whats going on.

There have only been 2 members that are pushing the racism envelope..... hey why dont you just go somewhere else and hug a tree.

Actually, the trees need a lot of loving in Thailand. They haven't been getting much since the British showed up to begin denuding the landscape, but

More to the point, since Pedr's sale is over, perhaps the conversation has run more than a bit too long.

The facts remain. Who cares about the crap and whether it was the Thais or the Chinese or you just closed shop.

Pedre, you will be missed.

D

We've got two more days to go. Lots of old friends have been to see us and many are planning to come in over the weekend. I've run out of puff to debate any more with loaded. Pop in and have a beer with me tomorrow or Sunday and I'll explain personally that factual comments about the history of Chinese/Thais in Asia are not the same as opinions, but your itchy little fingers just can't wait to copy and paste, can they!

Sunday: final sale: lots of new items, hundreds of things to sell: almost everything just 10 Baht. Sale starts 1pm. Sunday lunch available. 195 Baht for Roast Pork. Come and watch the place being

dis-assembled around us. Dunkirk spirit and all that!

Hope you can join us loaded, it would be nice to finally meet you - if we can drag you away from your computer and the booze section of 7/11 for an hour or two!

What's your opening hours for Saturday and Sunday Pedr?

good luck in the future pedr,hope whatever you do

Not sure why there are all these negative comments about Chinese Thais considering that when a farang loses his life savings, it's usually to an uneducated Thai female from a rural area of Thailand. In general, the Chinese prosper because they work hard and this prosperity is often viewed jealously by people who don't work hard and aren't prepared to risk/invest their own money in a business. There are bad apples everywhere, but most of the ones I've met in Thailand were not Chinese Thai. For example, most Thai policemen are not Chinese Thai. Most corrupt local government officers are not Chinese Thai.

Because when you get landlords who make all their money from renting out land they own to people who do all the hard work developing businesses, while said landlords sit on their <deleted> working hard to count all the rent money they get, it seems a little unfair in life.

Landlords prosper through being parasites. It's not conducive to giving them too much respect really. Greed is ugly.

Sorry, that is not how it is. You are being overly emotional and not thinking rationally.

I didn't make myself clear enough: i was thinking of landlords who own whole streets, or at least several properties, not just the one.

I have seen how such owners have a detrimental and overly powerful effect on the prices of things that thousands and millions of people wish or need to buy to get through their lives. "Jeng' is a common word here in chiang mai, thai for gone bust, and reflects the greed of landlords who are fine with one price but as soon as a business prospers they want more bang for the buck. It is pure greed. Time and time again a successful business faces no option but to give into that greed or find alternative things to do in life. As for farangs here in chiang mai this is very difficult due to the severe lack of job options allowed them by the government.

I've never met the OP, nor been to his pub, but it is so easy to sympathise with him over his predicament, especially when he tells us how much he has enjoyed his time working on his project.

My understanding is that the middle of chiang mai is owned by a few families. I therefore have this mental image of them sitting on their backsides, getting up only when it's rent collection time, or ripping up contract time.

I was not thinking of one person who has one property to rent out.

* It's a shame this thread has been hijacked by people fighting over the virtues or otherwise of landlords.

The Olde Bell is closing tomorrow, those that have enjoyed the hospitality provided by Pedr over the years should try to get in for one last party. There are thousands upon thousands of people who would love to be there but can't make it, and there will be a lot of disappointed people who arrive back in Thailand to find the Olde Bell locked up.

So extend a bit of courtesy please, only this weekend to go for Pedr.

Thanks Blether! I'm just as guilty of hijacking my own thread as the others!!

We are open today (Saturday 29th) from 9am until midnight as per usual. I'll be downstairs by 5pm to watch the British and Irish Lions thrash Australia (?!?) and stay around for most of the evening.

Sunday we'll be open from 9 a.m. for breakfast (free Bloody Mary with every breakfast over 100 Baht)

Then our final Sunday Lunch starts at 1pm and will go on until at least 7pm (or whilst stocks last).

The 10 Baht table top sale also starts at 1pm.

In the evening, some guys will be collecting their purchases after 9pm and if there's anything left we'll do a few freebies.

Doors close for the last time around 11pm.

All welcome!

The facts remain. Who cares about the crap and whether it was the Thais or the Chinese or you just closed shop. Pedre, you will be missed. D

It is most pertinent and worthy of input... if we did not talk about it, there would be little point in this forum, eh what.

This thing with the 'guests' getting their back up when someone slights the natives (when warranted) is so tired and old, and, quite franky, <deleted> boring. Chaps, forget about quoting the rule of law and whatnot, you are blethering for the sake of it and making yourselves look silly. You know how it works here; it is not the same as the West.

All the best, Pedr. Wish I was there to have a pint, scoff fish 'n chips and watch the real man's game.

What's wrong with blethering?

Anyway I'll be in tomorrow Pedr, I've to attend a going away party tonight and if I don't go a certain lady will drown me in the Ping.......and I'm going to miss the Rugby.

Sniff.

What's wrong with blethering?

Anyway I'll be in tomorrow Pedr, I've to attend a going away party tonight and if I don't go a certain lady will drown me in the Ping.......and I'm going to miss the Rugby.

Sniff.

Put your offer in on that flag yet have you?

No......and no intention. I've got one already.

Pity the big pole outside the pub is now sold .I had plans to make a new ''Spike'' in SanSai .( like the one in Dublin City center)

The Pub had no Guinness or Draught Bitter the other day only Draught Tiger so I'm not sure it warrants the title 'British Pub' anymore unless it was a blip

I wouldn't imagine Pedr really cares ! after all he is hardly going to get in a lot of stock if he is closing down now is he

I assume he's talking about The Pub http://www.thepubchiangmai.com/

not The Olde Bell.

Better known as "The Chiang Mai Darby and Joan Club".

you are blethering for the sake of it and making yourselves look silly.

Oh, the irony...

-Mestizo

The Pub had no Guinness or Draught Bitter the other day only Draught Tiger so I'm not sure it warrants the title 'British Pub' anymore unless it was a blip

I wouldn't imagine Pedr really cares ! after all he is hardly going to get in a lot of stock if he is closing down now is he

I assume he's talking about The Pub http://www.thepubchiangmai.com/

not The Olde Bell.

Better known as "The Chiang Mai Darby and Joan Club".

Opposite to the gates of the Gymkhana club a new restaurant opened about six months ago with the misleading name of Darby and Joan . There was nothing English about it and it was basically a hi-so Thai restaurant . As far as I know it's closed already.

Sad to hear but very best of luck Pedre..sure whatever you do you will do it well.

Hopefully will make it tomorrow night for a final "swally"

R...Terry

I agree..... my bad, I didnt read the earlier posts properly. I thought they were mentioning another Pub out of town had no beer. Next time Ill open my eyes completely and read it all and in its context.

It would be suicide to restock a this late stage..... and Pedr aint stupid!

yes I was - where did the Olde Bell come into it? I was talking about 'The Pub' as someone mentioned it as an alternative - it had NO draft Guinness OR draft Bitter only draft Tiger HOPING it was a blip

I've just left Pedr, he's in good form. As you can imagine it's been a roller coaster three weeks for him since the sale was agreed then collapsed. The bar is busy at the moment and the atmosphere is upbeat, and as we know tomorrow is the last day.

Pedr has requested that the mods close this thread at the moment, ( mods can you oblige please? ).

He can't make the request himself as he is without internet connection right now. He intends to make one more announcement about the last day as soon as he gets to a PC, and he would like to start a last day thread.

How about we cut out all the pontificating pedantry and swing behind this stalwart of the Chiang Mai community on his last day? let's go drink the place dry.

regret unable to attend

Edited June 29, 201313 yr by SinglePot