BookMan Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 There will be a back log of "immigrants" who have paid a huge amount that are in "transit", paid for Oz but will lend up in PNG. The next thing will be these same folks, going from PNG to Oz as, refugee immigrants, island hoping. But the thought of going to PNG first will make them think about all the other countries between, if they are genuine refugees. Under these new rules it wont do them any good going from PNG to Australia. Will still be seen as arriving by boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippybangkok Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Hehehe A bunch of thai based farangs talking about immigrants arriving in Oz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThommoPerth Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 There has been no mention how much Krudd is going to pay with our tax payer dollars to: 1. Inonesia, and 2. PNG. I suspect it will be billions and he won't release that figure until after the election if he can get away with it. The labor loving journos will never push him on hat question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 There has been no mention how much Krudd is going to pay with our tax payer dollars to: 1. Inonesia, and 2. PNG. I suspect it will be billions and he won't release that figure until after the election if he can get away with it. The labor loving journos will never push him on hat question.... I would imagine the longer term cost would be less than the current cost and what the increasing cost is processing them within Australia. So probably over a billion the first year? Currently the cost is $2 billion within Australia. The logic being that the numbers of arrivals will dramatically fall from the current numbers hence less expenditure needed. Last year there were 15,000 arrivals by boat (15, 182) Under the new laws, if the changes survive court challenges, the numbers will go down around 100 or less per year. That is people , not boats. Here is the historical numbers of people arriving by boat. You can see there are several years of zero arrivals for 12 months. Does not include the most recent 15,000 figure; http://www.aph.gov.au/about_parliament/parliamentary_departments/parliamentary_library/pubs/bn/2012-2013/boatarrivals 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 There has been no mention how much Krudd is going to pay with our tax payer dollars to: 1. Inonesia, and 2. PNG. I suspect it will be billions and he won't release that figure until after the election if he can get away with it. The labor loving journos will never push him on hat question.... I would imagine the longer term cost would be less than the current cost and what the increasing cost is processing them within Australia. So probably over a billion the first year? Currently the cost is $2 billion within Australia. The logic being that the numbers of arrivals will dramatically fall from the current numbers hence less expenditure needed. Last year there were 15,000 arrivals by boat (15, 182) Under the new laws, if the changes survive court challenges, the numbers will go down around 100 or less per year. That is people , not boats. Here is the historical numbers of people arriving by boat. You can see there are several years of zero arrivals for 12 months. Does not include the most recent 15,000 figure; http://www.aph.gov.au/about_parliament/parliamentary_departments/parliamentary_library/pubs/bn/2012-2013/boatarrivals Declining to say how much the initiative would cost, Mr Rudd said it ''will not be inexpensive''. But he said in time the measures would be ''budget neutral'', with record arrivals - numbering 15,610 this year - placing a heavy burden on the budget. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/kevin-rudd-to-send-asylum-seekers-who-arrive-by-boat-to-papua-new-guinea-20130719-2q9fa.html#ixzz2ZYsAmDcX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 There has been no mention how much Krudd is going to pay with our tax payer dollars to: 1. Inonesia, and 2. PNG. I suspect it will be billions and he won't release that figure until after the election if he can get away with it. The labor loving journos will never push him on hat question.... I would imagine the longer term cost would be less than the current cost and what the increasing cost is processing them within Australia. So probably over a billion the first year? Currently the cost is $2 billion within Australia. The logic being that the numbers of arrivals will dramatically fall from the current numbers hence less expenditure needed. Last year there were 15,000 arrivals by boat (15, 182) Under the new laws, if the changes survive court challenges, the numbers will go down around 100 or less per year. That is people , not boats. Here is the historical numbers of people arriving by boat. You can see there are several years of zero arrivals for 12 months. Does not include the most recent 15,000 figure; http://www.aph.gov.au/about_parliament/parliamentary_departments/parliamentary_library/pubs/bn/2012-2013/boatarrivals Declining to say how much the initiative would cost, Mr Rudd said it ''will not be inexpensive''. But he said in time the measures would be ''budget neutral'', with record arrivals - numbering 15,610 this year - placing a heavy burden on the budget. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/kevin-rudd-to-send-asylum-seekers-who-arrive-by-boat-to-papua-new-guinea-20130719-2q9fa.html#ixzz2ZYsAmDcX Budget neutral, so about 2 billion the first year? That was the budgeted figure ..from memory..I stand to be corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chao Lao Beach Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 A very clever move by Rudd. Abbott has been going on and on and on about stopping the boats and this will effectively stop the boats. Once the current refugees are cleared from the organised smuggling pipeline the boat arrivals will become almost zero What is Tony going to have for his soundbites now? Furthermore, these policies being announced by Rudd the last few days indicate he has been thinking and planning for months. Quite true with all of the comments above. He (Rudd) has really been planning this for a very long time and has made a good job of executing the populist decisions. And has received so much media coverage the Greens are no where to be seen or heard. They are probably making statements ... but the media is not picking up on them. EDIT ... sorry simple1 ... I wasn't refuting what you wrote ... just read it now. I don't know if it can be challenged in the High Court or not ... time will tell. . The Greens are getting almost no media coverage the last couple of weeks Not surprising. I saw the "leader" on Insiders and I think their policies are barking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Hehehe A bunch of thai based farangs talking about immigrants arriving in Oz I see your smiley, but at least we are all ( presumably ) here legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 If the Mods (Scott) could indulge this ... there are the ads which are running in Iran which I mentioned before. I found them when looking for something else. Safety Gear - Farsi This one has a cheeky 'Australian' flavour ... don't know if it would be culturally understood in Iran. Maybe made for the audience back in Australia? Family Deception - Farsi This one would be more understood. The whole series is here. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 On the Australian Immigration Website there is a dedicated page and much information dedicated to the subject of ... border-security-irregular-entry-no-people-smuggling One of the videos from that page ... We have obviously had a change of Leader since this was produced. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Police attend full-scale riot at asylum seeker detention centre on Nauru ... Updated Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:07am AEST Police and security guards have restored order at the detention centre on Nauru after a full-scale riot broke out. A security guard, who does not want to be named, said refugees began rioting late Friday afternoon and within two hours had taken over the centre. He says they gained access to a kitchen and armed themselves with knives and steel bars. Several new buildings were set on fire and the medical centre has been destroyed. At least 15 guards have been injured, including a local police officer who was stabbed. ABC News _______________________________________________________ Asylum seekers in police custody after riot at Nauru detention centre ... Updated 2 hours ago Nauru police have interviewed the ringleaders of a detention centre riot that caused $60 million in damage and left four people in hospital. Order has been restored at the detention centre after a peaceful protest quickly escalated into a riot on Friday. A security guard who does not want to be named says asylum seekers took over the centre, gained access to a kitchen and armed themselves with knives and steel bars. An Immigration Department spokeswoman says detainees burned buildings to the ground, including the accommodation blocks, which can house 600 people. The health centre and the dining room were also destroyed. The government in Nauru says 80 per cent of the island detention centre's buildings were destroyed in the riot. ABC News The issued described above are relevant to the OP. The new Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd has been identified and promoted as the main protagonist ... a 'man of action' if you like ... and it appears that the Polls are reacting to the populist stance. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 The videos are fine, David48. I think they put the situation in perspective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will27 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Yeah, they really meant that http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/pregnant-manus-asylum-seekers-taken-to-mainland-20130315-2g4vp.html On the Australian Immigration Website there is a dedicated page and much information dedicated to the subject of ... border-security-irregular-entry-no-people-smuggling One of the videos from that page ... We have obviously had a change of Leader since this was produced. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 There is only one fair way of weeding out economic refugees from those who are in real danger. The UN should allocate each person (or family) a ticket. They should then process them and determine who is and who is not a genuine refugee. Having done so the tickets should be then placed in a barrel and lots drawn to determine which country up to the quota allocated has first right of refusal for security or other reasons. They should then be resettled in that country. If no country will accept them the first drawn country must but can determine under which conditions they do so. This ensures that all those who need asylem and safety due to their beliefs recieve and enjoy safety and freedom from persecution but economics is not a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Hehehe A bunch of thai based farangs talking about immigrants arriving in Oz I see your smiley, but at least we are all ( presumably ) here legally. Seeking asylum isn't illegal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) If the Mods (Scott) could indulge this ... there are the ads which are running in Iran which I mentioned before. I found them when looking for something else. Safety Gear - Farsi This one has a cheeky 'Australian' flavour ... don't know if it would be culturally understood in Iran. Maybe made for the audience back in Australia? Family Deception - Farsi This one would be more understood. The whole series is here. . Interesting. These are Youtube only ads ? Edited July 21, 2013 by BookMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 The whole series is here. . Interesting. These are Youtube only ads ? No, from what I understand they were 'advertising' as in a paid advertisement on Television. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xangsamhua Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 There is some negative reaction in Oz to PM Rudd's cynical and hypocritical deal with Peter O'Neill. Apparently there are no written guarantees that the refugees will be resettled in PNG. There's also widespread acknowledgement that PNG's state of violence and criminal targeting of foreigners makes it quite inappropriate as a location for refugees and displaced persons. Most people are believing Christians (combined with animism) and may find an influx of Muslims difficult to accept, and as the country has no welfare system, it will be entirely dependent on Australian largesse to settle refugees there. Poor indigenous residents of the cities and towns may wonder why the refugees are in receipt of support when they do not get any. I guess the intention is to scare off asylum seekers from even beginning their journey. It's a gamble, and in the first boat to arrive at Christmas Island since the policy was announced, fewer than half the people will be sent to PNG. Rudd's monumental hypocrisy on this issue is highlighted in this morning's Courier-Mail, by Canberra correspondent, Dennis Atkins. Party Games: Prime Minister Kevin Rudd once likened his asylum seeker stance to the Good Samaritan parable WHEN Kevin Rudd was building his case to be Labor leader in 2006, he burnished his wares wherever and whenever he could. In a 7500-word essay published in The Monthly, Rudd argued the case for Christian Social Democracy, using it as a buttress against what he portrayed as the harsh, political approach of John Howard. In retrospect, it was a brazen declaration from a politician who has as much contact with shame as the NSW State of Origin team has with victory. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/party-games-prime-minister-kevin-rudd-once-likened-his-asylum-seeker-stance-to-the-good-samaritan-parable/story-fnihsr9v-1226682716478 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 @Xangsamhua. just another hypocritical politician fighting for power, remember Howard & his "Core and Non-Core promises"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 @Xangsamhua. just another hypocritical politician fighting for power, remember Howard & his "Core and Non-Core promises"? Agreeing with you. The current policy is not about those who seek (rightly or wrongly) asylum in Australia ... but about the electoral fortunes of a Political Party. But, neither party would do this unless they thought the majority of Australians wished this ... because they are chasing the vote ... hence popular politics. I wrote earlier that the Greens voice has been muted, or ignored but, of late, they are getting more air-time. Putting the Election perspective back on this issue ... I wonder if the Green vote will increase over previous elections or some voters may return back to the Labor fold? We will know in a few months. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xangsamhua Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 @Xangsamhua. just another hypocritical politician fighting for power, remember Howard & his "Core and Non-Core promises"? No. But I don't have a great political memory. I had to look it up in Wikipedia. I guess a "non-core promise" is a Clayton's promise. A nonsense. Something you give if, like politicians, you live only in the perceivable present, a world in which the future is, to misquote L. P. Hartley, "a foreign country; they will do things differently there". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xangsamhua Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 @Xangsamhua. just another hypocritical politician fighting for power, remember Howard & his "Core and Non-Core promises"? Agreeing with you. The current policy is not about those who seek (rightly or wrongly) asylum in Australia ... but about the electoral fortunes of a Political Party. But, neither party would do this unless they thought the majority of Australians wished this ... because they are chasing the vote ... hence popular politics. . Indeed, and the immediate response has been favourable. However, some doubt seems to be emerging about the practicality, morality and longer-term wisdom of the deal. Australians are not an unkind people, but they don't like being taken advantage of by the unscrupulous. They may be starting to wonder who is trying to take more advantage of them - people smugglers, fraudulent asylum seekers, or their new (well, resuscitated) Prime Minister. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Speaking of our beloved Prime Minister, the BBC have completely changed the debate ... Well done the BBC ... Oh, I nabbed this photo from a blog Some of the comments at random (well, the mildly amusing ones anyway) ... We must immediately apologise for any insult caused to the Canadians. Not sure who would be more insulted the Australians or the Canadians…. Ah hell, it’s all west of Bristol, so why argue about trivial technicalities? But, for anyone following the current Ashes series in England, the prize quote goes to ... The big difference is Canada are crap at cricket whereas Australia … oh wait ... You can read them all here . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Croc Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 @Xangsamhua. just another hypocritical politician fighting for power, remember Howard & his "Core and Non-Core promises"? No. But I don't have a great political memory. I had to look it up in Wikipedia. I guess a "non-core promise" is a Clayton's promise. A nonsense. Something you give if, like politicians, you live only in the perceivable present, a world in which the future is, to misquote L. P. Hartley, "a foreign country; they will do things differently there". Bit like Abbott. It's a lie unless he puts it in writing. Even then....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonarax Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Listening now on 2gb .next after that state of origin .Go the blues yeah only the blues can lose 8 years running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo22 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Speaking of our beloved Prime Minister, the BBC have completely changed the debate ... Well done the BBC ... Oh, I nabbed this photo from a blog Some of the comments at random (well, the mildly amusing ones anyway) ... We must immediately apologise for any insult caused to the Canadians. Not sure who would be more insulted the Australians or the Canadians. Ah hell, its all west of Bristol, so why argue about trivial technicalities? But, for anyone following the current Ashes series in England, the prize quote goes to ... The big difference is Canada are crap at cricket whereas Australia oh wait ... You can read them all here . I like the comment: "Thats one way for the Aussies to get rid of him perhaps they should have thought of that when Gizzard was in power!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookMan Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Did anyone see Abbott's response to Rudd's PNG solution? Operation 'Soveriegn Borders' The Coalition has today responded to Kevin Rudd’s PNG agreement on asylum seekers with its own announcement of “Operation Sovereign Borders”. The dramatic-sounding announcement, by immigration spokesman Scott Morrison and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott, almost entirely relates to restructuring in Canberra, with a new three-star general appointed to lead a $10 million “taskforce” involving agencies already dealing with the asylum seeker issue. Three-star generals are at the level of service chiefs; the Chief of the Defence Force, currently General David Hurley, is a four-star general. A new three-star general would thus effectively be the establishment of a new defence service, albeit with few resources beyond Canberra bureaucrats, and reporting directly to the immigration minister, rather than reporting to the Chief of the Defence Force. http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/07/25/military-reshuffle-abbotts-operation-sovereign-borders/?wpmp_switcher=mobile Edited July 25, 2013 by BookMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post samran Posted July 25, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2013 Did anyone see Abbott's response to Rudd's PNG solution? Operation 'Soveriegn Borders' The Coalition has today responded to Kevin Rudd’s PNG agreement on asylum seekers with its own announcement of “Operation Sovereign Borders”. The dramatic-sounding announcement, by immigration spokesman Scott Morrison and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott, almost entirely relates to restructuring in Canberra, with a new three-star general appointed to lead a $10 million “taskforce” involving agencies already dealing with the asylum seeker issue. Three-star generals are at the level of service chiefs; the Chief of the Defence Force, currently General David Hurley, is a four-star general. A new three-star general would thus effectively be the establishment of a new defence service, albeit with few resources beyond Canberra bureaucrats, and reporting directly to the immigration minister, rather than reporting to the Chief of the Defence Force. http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/07/25/military-reshuffle-abbotts-operation-sovereign-borders/?wpmp_switcher=mobile What next? "Operation Budgie Smuggler?" This is Dad's Army stuff... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Did anyone see Abbott's response to Rudd's PNG solution? Operation 'Soveriegn Borders' The Coalition has today responded to Kevin Rudd’s PNG agreement on asylum seekers with its own announcement of “Operation Sovereign Borders”. The dramatic-sounding announcement, by immigration spokesman Scott Morrison and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott, almost entirely relates to restructuring in Canberra, with a new three-star general appointed to lead a $10 million “taskforce” involving agencies already dealing with the asylum seeker issue. Three-star generals are at the level of service chiefs; the Chief of the Defence Force, currently General David Hurley, is a four-star general. A new three-star general would thus effectively be the establishment of a new defence service, albeit with few resources beyond Canberra bureaucrats, and reporting directly to the immigration minister, rather than reporting to the Chief of the Defence Force. http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/07/25/military-reshuffle-abbotts-operation-sovereign-borders/?wpmp_switcher=mobile What next? "Operation Budgie Smuggler?" This is Dad's Army stuff... True, but it's a bit more serious as isn't Abbott proposing changing the Chain of Command structure? Not sure that Australians will be too happy with this proposal & it could erode his creditability- comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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