What do you want from this forum?

[Tokker]

I lived in Chiang Rai from 2005 up to 2009. I liked it because it was laid back and - unlike chiang mai - easy to get around and meet fellow expats. In 2009 I moved back home (Europe). Last year I visited Chiang Rai again. There was almost nobody left of the people and places I used to know. When I look at myself and my friends back then, I think it's safe to say that, unless you are financially retired, there is no way to build a sustainable future in chiang rai. So to stay on topic, what I would like to know through this forum, is to what degree you can speak of a lasting expat community in chiang rai? For example, 2 years ago I heard Rico's was the place to be, and now I just read that it's gone again. Same goes for the 3 pizza joints I used to visit, the belgian bakery, the old night market bars, the new night market bars (in the soi behind it). Instead chiang rai got Central and even more traffic and air pollution. So how many of you who are not retired can honestly say they plan to still be there in 5 years? By the way, this is not a rant, i still love and miss chiang rai, but I regret to think that it's just a phase for most people... And another question: i'd like to know what changed for the better in the last few years in chiang rai? (Please don't say Central )

[Fiddlesticks]

I lived in Chiang Rai from 2005 up to 2009. I liked it because it was laid back and - unlike chiang mai - easy to get around and meet fellow expats. In 2009 I moved back home (Europe). Last year I visited Chiang Rai again. There was almost nobody left of the people and places I used to know. When I look at myself and my friends back then, I think it's safe to say that, unless you are financially retired, there is no way to build a sustainable future in chiang rai. So to stay on topic, what I would like to know through this forum, is to what degree you can speak of a lasting expat community in chiang rai? For example, 2 years ago I heard Rico's was the place to be, and now I just read that it's gone again. Same goes for the 3 pizza joints I used to visit, the belgian bakery, the old night market bars, the new night market bars (in the soi behind it). Instead chiang rai got Central and even more traffic and air pollution. So how many of you who are not retired can honestly say they plan to still be there in 5 years? By the way, this is not a rant, i still love and miss chiang rai, but I regret to think that it's just a phase for most people... And another question: i'd like to know what changed for the better in the last few years in chiang rai? (Please don't say Central )

Maybe CR simply appeals to a different group of people! No offense intended, but it seems your memories and fondness for CR revolves around western restaurants and bars. If that is what you need then CM or other tourist traps would be your best location. Here in CR there aren't many of those types of places and perhaps that is what draws us to this area. CR is a big town (not really a city) that is surrounded by great natural beauty. It is very easy to set out each day and explore the beauty of the lush countryside. CR is convenient to many interesting places like Maesai, CHiang Sean, Chiang Khong, Phayao, Doi Mae Salong and even Chiang Mai. Yet is has not yet been ruined by overdevelopment (yet). I love the fact that I can travel around CR and not be tripping over hordes of farang. I love the idea of having only a few farang watering holes. I enjoy my occasional beer or glass of wine at home or in places with picturesque views of the beautiful countryside that makes CR so inviting. So I think that CR appeals to those whose concept of quality of life is not defined by the four walls of western bars and restaurants.

[sceadugenga]

Insha'Allah I will be here in five years, with a little judicious health management and careful driving hopefully longer.

I am retired though, the unretired may not be able to predict their movements so far ahead.... better jobs, loss of jobs have greater control over their choice of location.

I live out of town, but not as far out as I was when I moved here eight years ago, Chaing Rai is coming to me at a slow but inexorable rate.

Apart from moving to somewhere like WaWi or Burma there's not a lot I can do about it, Chiang Rai is growing and continues to grow, yesterday about 2pm I drove around the much maligned Central Mall carpark before parking illegally.... there were no parks available.

There's expat social life available, I have a few friends, fewer than this time last year I'll admit, but the bars have no appeal and apart from the occasional Sunday brunch at Le Meridien I usually only eat out if invited or I have visitors so I have to say it meets my expectations there.

[villagefarang]

Central , I love Central, and find it one of the best places to bump into friends. I guess I can understand visitors wanting time to stand still, while they are away, but fortunately things don’t work that way.

I see, not only is the expat community lasting, it is growing, but with that comes change which some resist. If one holds to a mindset of opening a small business catering to a limited number of older farangs who are trying to squeeze every last drop out of their dwindling retirement funds, then I perhaps don’t see much future for that kind of business. That is not to say there is not a future for others, however.

Chiang Rai, is as you point out, still pretty much a retirement destination and I am sure many of us plan to live out our lives here. Whether we will still be walking around, or in an urn in the temple grounds who knows, but we will be here.

If one enjoys nature and a simple uncomplicated but comfortable life, occasionally bumping into friends and catching up, then Chiang Rai is still a great place. And thanks for the coffee yesterday, Scea , what a pleasant and unexpected surprise to bump into you.

[DonaldBattles]

I am located 7 km out of town. It used to be in the country now the area is covered with drug dealers, slop shops and few naughty bars.

I notice that the number one business in the Rai continues to be dirt hauling but no buildings going up. I am told that buying land and back filling it is all cash related and a good way to launder drug money. At the rate they are going they will have dug up all the mountains and moved the dirt to backfill rice land. I still love living here but is it changing rapidly. If I wanted to move to some place else I don't know where I would go. We are still a lot better off here than many other places in Thailand. I agree the Central Plaza parking situation super sucks. These are mostly employee cars double and triple parking with doors locked. Real crazy!

[sceadugenga]

I like it out your way Don, there are some nice spots along the river there.

I'm a bit horrified at the naughty bars though, maybe you should give exact locations so us respectable members wont come across them accidentally.

[Fiddlesticks]

Central , I love Central, and find it one of the best places to bump into friends. I guess I can understand visitors wanting time to stand still, while they are away, but fortunately things don’t work that way.

I see, not only is the expat community lasting, it is growing, but with that comes change which some resist. If one holds to a mindset of opening a small business catering to a limited number of older farangs who are trying to squeeze every last drop out of their dwindling retirement funds, then I perhaps don’t see much future for that kind of business. That is not to say there is not a future for others, however.

Chiang Rai, is as you point out, still pretty much a retirement destination and I am sure many of us plan to live out our lives here. Whether we will still be walking around, or in an urn in the temple grounds who knows, but we will be here.

If one enjoys nature and a simple uncomplicated but comfortable life, occasionally bumping into friends and catching up, then Chiang Rai is still a great place. And thanks for the coffee yesterday, Scea , what a pleasant and unexpected surprise to bump into you.

I agree with VF, having a place like Central is nice to have. Let's not forget, without Central there would be no STARBUCKS ! ! !

[DonaldBattles]

One naughty bar is next door to me. Now that I have closed my bar here I have to go to those that I can walk home from. After Dr. Chang Classic caused me to fall in the lake last month I am trying to get him to be a little nicer. Dr Chang is a man's beer, the others are for girl scouts! Since my last run in with the Dr. I have changed from the big bottles to the 500 ml cans. Falling over a can is a lot better than a broken bottle.

[DonaldBattles]

How many times have you had your car blocked in the parking area with the doors locked and the gear in. It has happened to me 2 times. Thank god I found a guy with a floor jack to move it out. He says that this happens very frequently and I should park outside and bring my umbrella. Except for the salad bar at Sizzler I don't find much for me at Central Plaza. This place is covered with stores for women. You look at Tops, half of it is cosmetics. My wife wants to go frequently and walk for hours comparing clothes, phones and shoes. For the price of a Starbucks coffee you can go to skid row and have a beer and get stroked and a good story. If the place had one good bar I could handle my wife's long visits better. The garbage at McDonald's is too much but it is better than the chicken places.

[villagefarang]

The parking attendant has a point. If you know people are going to double park, blocking your car, why don’t modify your own parking behavior and park where that is less likely. It only took me once to learn my lesson.

I for one, am glad there are no bars in the mall. Hey, didn’t I read somewhere that you never complain?

[sceadugenga]

I solve the parking problem by going early, about 11 am, early in the week.

It has things there I want so I go there, I seldom linger over coffee or drinks.

Drinkers could be accommodated at a reasonable price in the upstairs food hall, keep in mind that there are no alcoholic beverages available between 2 and 5 pm.

When you conducted interviews for the position of wife you should have had shopping habits underlined in red Don....

Edited August 10, 2013 by sceadugenga

[harrry]

This place is covered with stores for women. You look at Tops, half of it is cosmetics.

Which provides endless joy to the us all when we can observe the beauty of the female half of the Thai population without even leaving our coffee table.

[DonaldBattles]

It is a matter of what you want to do with your time and what blows your dress up. If walking around the mall all day looking at the lady shoppers is your thing then you should try counting the cars in traffic jams during the rush hour. Different strokes for different folks. I don't see how the mall has added a lot to the quality of life for us western people who came here to get away from Starbucks and McDonalds. Mind you it is a lot easier for me to go to the bank at the mall than it is to drive in circles down town looking for a place to park. The double and triple parkers with locked doors and gears have taught me to park outside. If you like this level of headache good for you. To me it sucks!

For you men who love to watch the ladies shop for cosmetics suppose that you had a Harry Ramstead's Fish and Chips Shop that also serves beer at the mall. Would you rather watch the lady shoppers than be there while your wife is pissing your pension check away. As the English are a major part of the population in Chiang Rai why does someone not open a fish and chips at the mall. We don't have a single quality western food place in the mall. I include Sizzler in this as their foods are frozen and imported and are not to my standards and are also expensive. If you want to go to town and eat a decent western meal at a reasonable price where would you go? I am talking other than the english owned bars and grub shops.

[villagefarang]

Interesting how you compare enjoying the female form to counting cars in a traffic jam. If I viewed my wife as “pissing away” money or anything else, I doubt I would be married to her in the first place. I am pretty sure most of us don't wear dresses either, being quite content to let our wives perform that function in the relationship.

The mall has added a lot to the quality to my life. I live surrounded by nature, far from town, and enjoy the one-stop convenience of the mall and I can assure you I am not driven by the need to get away from anything.

We can’t always get everything we want at the mall but we can find most things, while enjoying a variety of food outlets and taking in the occasional movie or getting the car cleaned and polished.

I often bump into interesting people and have a pleasant conversation, not adulterated by alcohol, noise or bad weather. Again, the mall has been a welcome addition to Chiang Rai in my opinion, and the opinion of most people I know.

Edited August 10, 2013 by villagefarang

[harrry]

As a person who uses a wheelchair and also has breathing problems with polution etc I find the mall a godsend. I can go there, move around it, eat food see friends and do my banking without any problem.

It is not that I do not like other things too but the time I tried to go to Dons I couldn't because of the mud and it looks as if it was all built on a raised platform anyway.

Diferent things for everyone but having the mall here is good for many.

[Aftrmidnyt]

Too funny.

I had a few good laughs catching up on "What I Want From This Forum". (It was directed at ME, wasn't it VF? lol)

The mall thing....Agreed, parking sux.

Living here for a long time thing....absolutely! Urm....however, due to my somewhat depressing financial situation coupled with my youthful exuberance, I shall leave!

And come back.........and leave.....and come back.

The leaving part is to pretend at the "work" thing whilst gladly taking the "cash" thing. Wifey likes that.

The coming back thing. Thats because we love it here, we have family and friends and a home. Wifey likes that also!

It is our intention to stay here and watch Chiang Rai grow up while we grow old. I'm a hopin' that's many years.

I've yet to meet any of the forum posters and that may have to wait for my return "next trip". It's damn near time to go and play at the work thing again.

I am, how ever, looking forward to meeting some of the folks that radiate that sickeningly positive vibe!!!! lol

Tokker, every place changes. When I go "back at" for work or visiting, it is always one step beyond what I remember. Life goes on, even when we are not there to watch it. People change and so do the places we used to belong. We have to adapt or move on and find another place that makes us smile large. It can be disconcerting at times.

Cheers, I like it here!

[kevvy]

i am interested for a number of reasons , i have also seen some great pictures of the country side around CR. I also have been there 2 times and enjoyed it so much , it was different from any city i have been too. the people are very friendly and dont look at you like a "just another farang"

I did notice that the traffic was not busy and not had to fight for your life while driving. And, the people on the CR forum are a good bunch of blokes... i am happy to come to this forum , which in turn will change my wife's and mine life for the better.

[kevvy]

One naughty bar is next door to me. Now that I have closed my bar here I have to go to those that I can walk home from. After Dr. Chang Classic caused me to fall in the lake last month I am trying to get him to be a little nicer. Dr Chang is a man's beer, the others are for girl scouts! Since my last run in with the Dr. I have changed from the big bottles to the 500 ml cans. Falling over a can is a lot better than a broken bottle.

i dont really like Dr Chang, it makes me feel sick , so i prefer a Dr Pepsi or Dr water . good move to move to the cans , at least you will not cut yourself if you fall over again ...cheers .

[kevvy]

It seem that people like photos, travel experiences, local news and updates, local attraction, sense of community, positive posts, sites to see, roads to take, accommodation, tribal people, personal stories and one vote for warts and bad language.

These are some of the ideas I have garnered from this topic so far. Considering the more civil tone of late, I was hoping more people would weigh in with their ideas and opinions without fear of retribution. It is important to remember these things don’t just appear out of thin air. Someone has to step up and post something.

We need your contributions and if someone does take the time to contribute, please say something to let them know someone is reading.

after reading this forum many times and not posting , i feel this forum is more helping than just people putting you down , i too have done this in the past , but when you have more positive people around the positive comes out more. seeing there is a great community here I will visit this forum each day , even though I am not a CR householder I love the pleasant topics here ...thanks to all...

[DonaldBattles]

Apparently there was a lot of damage in some areas caused by the flood. A friend who lives in Chiang Sean said that his truck and 2 motor cycles got under water before they could do anything about it. The night of the flood the rain fall in Doi Hang was only 3 inches and the over flows pipes in my lakes handled it OK.

For those who are vegetable gardeners it won't be long until time to get your seeds in the potting flats. I plan to have a big farang style vegetable garden this year. Those who wish to have vegetables for their own use will have to and pick them. I expect that some items will be ready by Nov. 1. This assumes I get my greenhouse recovered soon. Potting flats need to be used with good soil so the transplants at about 4-5 inches will survive the cold weather.

[sceadugenga]

One naughty bar is next door to me. Now that I have closed my bar here I have to go to those that I can walk home from. After Dr. Chang Classic caused me to fall in the lake last month I am trying to get him to be a little nicer. Dr Chang is a man's beer, the others are for girl scouts! Since my last run in with the Dr. I have changed from the big bottles to the 500 ml cans. Falling over a can is a lot better than a broken bottle.

i dont really like Dr Chang, it makes me feel sick , so i prefer a Dr Pepsi or Dr water . good move to move to the cans , at least you will not cut yourself if you fall over again ...cheers .

I had a couple of the fabled Beer Lao Dark small bottles last Christmas and it was my first beer in about 3 to 4 years.

Chiang Rai Deli has cans of Irish cider and I like to keep a couple in the fridge.

Other than that it's water, coffee or the dreaded Coke Lite.

[pomchop]

I like it out your way Don, there are some nice spots along the river there.

I'm a bit horrified at the naughty bars though, maybe you should give exact locations so us respectable members wont come across them accidentally.

naughty bar in doi hang? really? where exactly is the location so as suggested we can avoid it? how naughty is it?

[sceadugenga]

Maybe we should set up a ThaiVisa investigation committee and do a survey.

I'll tell my Mrs I've got a dentist appointment.

[harrry]

Maybe we should set up a ThaiVisa investigation committee and do a survey.

I'll tell my Mrs I've got a dentist appointment.

I could say something here but I will not

[kevvy]

what do I want? easy friendship , people who are positive, happy people, people who can help you because they want too. and most of all ....want to live in the RAI yeah

[sceadugenga]

You need to be careful settling some where based on friends.

If you have good friends and you move away, make new and visit the old.

But be careful, you could run into people here that judge you on who you know rather than who you are.

[DonaldBattles]

I totally agree farangs in Chiang Rai spend a lot more time judging others than they do helping each other. This never serves any purpose.

The average farang retiree (not including temporary religious and teacher people) amount to about 650-700 people in Chaing Rai . Almost all are living on fixed minimum incomes and spend a lot of time in bars bad mouthing each other. There are a lot of projects such as community development and other things that we can do to use our time more productive. I am thinking about offering a free seminar to Thais on International Trade and Business as an occupation. I did these lectures free of charge for the Prince Of Mahidol University in Phuket and they were well accepted. I will contact Mae Fah Luang University and ask them if there might be in interest. We have a lot to offer the young people in Chiang Rai and can do it without utilizing a lot of time. One good friend Ian Swan teaches English at a government school for next to nothing in the way of money but it makes him feel good to offer young people something the government is not willing to give them freely. We can do a lot for our community. My business experience includes working in 9 Thai provinces and in 30 countries as owner of my own business and I should be sharing the useful knowledge that I have gained. Much of this I have written about in my book Merchant Of The Orient, An Entrepreneur's Journey In Life published at 2500 different outlets worldwide and availablein Chiang Rai in E-book and printed form. I wrote this book to share experiences and not to make money.

[kevvy]

You need to be careful settling some where based on friends.

If you have good friends and you move away, make new and visit the old.

But be careful, you could run into people here that judge you on who you know rather than who you are.

good morning sceadu

thanks for the advice

I have no friends up north , I am the type just to have my wife and that makes me happy. she is my best friend , and if I run into anyone on this site , well that is good .But wont live in anyone's pocket. I am old in years (same as VF hehe) so I know when someone just wants information or something from me . they area a dime a dozen.

You can soon work out who is a good person and who is not. Just live life being happy and no one should try to take that away from you .

talk soon mate

[kevvy]

I totally agree farangs in Chiang Rai spend a lot more time judging others than they do helping each other. This never serves any purpose.

The average farang retiree (not including temporary religious and teacher people) amount to about 650-700 people in Chaing Rai . Almost all are living on fixed minimum incomes and spend a lot of time in bars bad mouthing each other. There are a lot of projects such as community development and other things that we can do to use our time more productive. I am thinking about offering a free seminar to Thais on International Trade and Business as an occupation. I did these lectures free of charge for the Prince Of Mahidol University in Phuket and they were well accepted. I will contact Mae Fah Luang University and ask them if there might be in interest. We have a lot to offer the young people in Chiang Rai and can do it without utilizing a lot of time. One good friend Ian Swan teaches English at a government school for next to nothing in the way of money but it makes him feel good to offer young people something the government is not willing to give them freely. We can do a lot for our community. My business experience includes working in 9 Thai provinces and in 30 countries as owner of my own business and I should be sharing the useful knowledge that I have gained. Much of this I have written about in my book Merchant Of The Orient, An Entrepreneur's Journey In Life published at 2500 different outlets worldwide and availablein Chiang Rai in E-book and printed form. I wrote this book to share experiences and not to make money.

I really dont know what you mean ? the average farang sits in bars and bad mouth people? I never see this probably because I never go to the bars .

I like your ides of helping the young , maybe we can take this further if everyone would care to do it .

thanks for the good topic

[harrry]

Sadly I am scared to do anything like teach or use some of the skills I have though they could be useful. I live on my retirement visa and as such cannot get a work permit. I will not do anything without one because that may jeopardise my living in Thailand and cause me and my family major problems.