I Will Not Resign: Thaksin

[lukamar]

How is it possible that the same article is listed under different chapters and different sections?

212 is the Original Constitution, 313 is an "Amendment of the Constitution ". The amendment should take precedent over the original.

[Plus]

60% turnout was reported for the South, lower than last year's 73%. No word on turnout nationwide. Thaksin spent quite some time describing how due to low trunout this years "cake" is smaller than last year's and the proportion of votes didn't change.

[asd]

I don't mean to sound malicious, but did the PM fail his primary school math? Saying that he won 52% of the vote, but then going on to say that 16 million votes want to TRT vs 10 million abstentions. How does this add up?

Right thats like 62% Prob spoiled ballots aren't mentioned????

Forty million plus eligible voters, with a 70% poll rate is around 30 million. If TRT claim that they polled 16 million votes, that's his 50 plus percent!! There might well have been 10 million informal votes, but they don't count unfortunately.

[Einstein]

Allot of noise in Bangkok, but no success. It seems that ONE MAN has more power than the other millions of Thai people whose mouth is bigger than a Rhino.

[Plus]

Lukamar, Amendment of the Constitution is the name of the Chapter. In one version it's Chapter 11, in another it's Chapter 12 (which is called "Drafting New Constitution").

http://www.parliament.go.th/files/library/b05-b.htm

http://www.kpi.ac.th/kpi/en/con_th.asp

[Sleepless]

I do agree people uppcountry like him because that, and bangkokian dislike him because or it's them who pay the bills by their taxes (I consider that normal but it's my 2 cents) and because he never have give money to the middle class living in bangkok, on the ground their earn enought by them self (and if not, as they do not vote for him he does not care much).

If he was a real donator, he will not pay his taxes of Shin selling (he already did it), but give directly huge amout of money to the poors.If he simply given away the half of what he should have given as taxes, all those problems would have not appear.

I am a middle-class in Bangkok and the reason we don't want him is not against the poor. I just want to make sure my son can grow up and can compete in a fair country. I just want my son to have a place to stand at the same level with his son. The way he uses poor peoples as the hostage just make us sick. We are feeling like a foreigner here in Thailand now.

[h90]

Actually you did not listen carefully

a) in fact he got a lot more maybe 80 %, because some dubios polls are telling that and thats more important than a redicolouse election

he found out that the evil sondi and the others just want to kick him out what is not fair (I know a long time, Toxin knew it since yesterday) so anyway you must multiply the pro Toxin votes with 10 and the other you forget. I don't know how I come to that figures.....

c) accourding to the polls and that sondi confuse the people only the pro Duck-sin votes are valid the others are because of evil magic (oh yes an mercur is in a bad position).

d) if Toxin get premier again, there is 1 year no income tax, the isaan people does not need to pay back their loans and get a new one. And Santa Clause promised he'll come 3 times a year...

I wonder how this fits with his statement to resign if TRT didnt poll 50%? ITV report that TRT has 44.5% of ballots cast with 85% counted. If officially confirmed things could get interesting.

[sajal]

CHAPTER XII

Amendment of the Constitution

Section 313.

1) a motion for amendment must be proposed either by the

Council of Ministers or members of the House of Representatives of not less than one-fifth of the total number of the existing members of the House of

Representatives or members of both Houses of not less than one-fifth of the total number of the existing members thereof...

Or wait a second, there's another one!

CHAPTER XI

Amendment of the Constitution

Section 211. An amendment of the Constitution may be

made only under the rules and procedure as follows:

(1) a motion for amendment must be proposed either by

the Council of Ministers or members of the House of

Representatives of not less than one-third of the total number

of existed members of the House of Representatives or members

of the Senate and the House of Representatives of not less than

one-third of the total number of existed members of both Houses.

http://www.parliament.go.th/files/library/law11e.htm

How is it possible that the same article is listed under different chapters and different sections?

The first text mentions one-fifth, the second one-third of the joint houses. How bloody difficult could it be to have one version of the Constitution for the country?

No Itellectual Property rights whatsoever!!!

That is totally BS, probably bad translation.

Here is the correct one.

(1) a motion for amendment must be proposed the richest person in thailand, wether the people agree or not. Thai people and other ministers are not allowed to revolt or disagree. The richest person in Thailand is defined as the person whose(family included) wealth is higher than any other person in Thailand.

Edit: Dec 5th, the line "Thai people and other ministers are not allowed to revolt or disagree." was deleted.

Lets see what Apr 2nd brings

[lung]

and from REUTERS.co.uk

Thai PM claims election victory

-----------------

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra claimed victory on Monday in Thailand's snap election that failed to resolve a political crisis and he promised to set up an eminent persons group to find a way out of the mess.

Thaksin, accused of corruption and abuse of power by street campaigners trying to oust him, said he would step down if that was what the group of former judges, university chiefs and prime ministers recommended.

Nursing a political bloody nose after a poll boycotted by the main opposition parties, Thaksin said on a television talk show his party won more than half the vote in Sunday's election.

But he said votes for his party had dropped from 19 million at the last general election in February 2005 to 16 million and that 10 million voters had voted to abstain -- effectively a vote against him -- or for minor parties with no chance.

"I want reconciliation for the country. I will do anything," he said. "I have retreated so many steps that my back is against the wall.

Appearing calm at the end of a day of confusion caused by the Election Commission's slowness in releasing results, Thaksin's tally released him from a promise to resign if his Thai Rak Thai (TRT) party won less than half the vote.

The election, which Thaksin's promise turned into an effective referendum on his leadership, guaranteed constitutional chaos in the absence of the reconciliation with opposition parties and street campaigners he sought.

The Election Commission (EC) said 38 of 400 constituencies had failed to secure a winner, leaving empty seats in parliament and making it impossible for him to form a new government.

The EC said it would hold by-elections in the empty seats, which are in the opposition-dominated south, but there is no guarantee that at the second-attempt TRT candidates will get the 20 percent of eligible votes needed to win in uncontested seats.

ECONOMIC IMPACT

Nationwide tallies trickled out at a snail's pace throughout the day, but results for Bangkok delivered an early blow to the Thaksin, a telecoms billionaire, showing TRT had lost to the abstentions vote by 50.1 percent to 45.9.

A year ago, it won 32 constituencies in the capital.

The political crisis has taken its toll on the economy, paralysing business decision-making and sapping the stock market, Southeast Asia's worst performer of the year.

Bangkok's bourse did rise slightly as foreign investors saw a chance to buy cheaply, but the baht inched lower as the lack of a clear resolution emerged and Thaksin hinted his patience might snap if street protesters failed to accept the results.

"It's time to bring law and order," he told reporters after voting with his children, whose tax-free $1.9 billion (1.1 billion pound) sale of the telecoms empire he founded galvanised the street campaign in January.

There was no immediate response to Thaksin's promise of an eminent persons group from the opposition parties or from the leaders of a street campaign which has wearied many Bangkok residents with its constant protests.

Analysts say a post-election break before street protests are due to resume on Friday could provide a cooling-off period for talks between Thaksin and his opponents, an ad hoc coalition called the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Some voters in Bangkok disagreed. "Most people don't trust elections any more," said businessman Ponganan Limprajikul, 32. "I think there will be more protests. More people will come out to join the protests and they could become more emotional."

(Additional reporting by Nopporn Wong-Anan and Bill Tarrant in BANGKOK and Chawadee Nualkhair in PATTANI)

------------

viva la ?

[lukamar]

Lukamar, Amendment of the Constitution is the name of the Chapter. In one version it's Chapter 11, in another it's Chapter 12 (which is called "Drafting New Constitution").

http://www.parliament.go.th/files/library/b05-b.htm

http://www.kpi.ac.th/kpi/en/con_th.asp

The first URL does not have section 312 mentioned at all.

This is the version that I was using.

Constitution from the EC

I'm sure the government has the appropriate and updated version and that is what they will use.

[Plus]

Ok, here's the solution.

The Constitution on parliament.go.th site is circa 2534 (1991),

The Constitution on kpi.ac.th is 2540 - the current one.

There's also

http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/th00t___.html

which is the same as kpi.ac.th version.

Still, Senate alone cannot propose an amendment, only House of Representatives, or both together.

House of Representatives should have 500 MPs. Last news was that 38 constituencies and 1 party list seat are still vacant. According to The Nation other parties can't join in by-elections, so let's all wait until 20% of Yala, Pattani, and Narathiwat vote TRT.

Council of Ministers is what we call "Cabiner" here, which of cause can't be selected until there's the House of Representative.

They need some creativity to get out of this one, ....

or Royal intervention.

[Sleepless]

Lukamar, Amendment of the Constitution is the name of the Chapter. In one version it's Chapter 11, in another it's Chapter 12 (which is called "Drafting New Constitution").

http://www.parliament.go.th/files/library/b05-b.htm

http://www.kpi.ac.th/kpi/en/con_th.asp

The first URL does not have section 312 mentioned at all.

This is the version that I was using.

Constitution from the EC

I'm sure the government has the appropriate and updated version and that is what they will use.

What are you guys looking for in the Constitution? Like he care.

[sonnyJ]

Was just watching the channel 11 english news 9:15, that was a mistake.

Well, with the Bangkok Post guy they said 16 million voted for TRT, so what about the 9% ? invalid vote, it doesn't require much math to find out that even half of this is correct and assuming the votes were not for TRT, TRT didn't get 50% and lost.

What bothers me with channel 11 english news broad cast is that they were not talking about this. Would think they had more than 50% words in their minds that they couldn't speak, at least I do hope so . Everyone knew their role but overall were acting like nervous small children. I'd recommend government to start to hire actorss instead of reporters on their tv if this is their intented broadcast.

[pepsi666]

my apologies for this, BUT what has he actually done wrong ?

I know he sold some shares in some company, but apert from that, has anything been proven ?

Why didnt anyone put up more candidates so people could vote for them, rather than abstain, that is a wasted vote (I think)

[ColPyat]

I am a middle-class in Bangkok and the reason we don't want him is not against the poor. I just want to make sure my son can grow up and can compete in a fair country. I just want my son to have a place to stand at the same level with his son. The way he uses poor peoples as the hostage just make us sick. We are feeling like a foreigner here in Thailand now.

Well, middle class Bangkok, Thaksin is the answer for decades of ignoring the needs of the poor. While middle and upper class Thailand still think within their own class, Thaksin has managed to give a voice to the poor in the North and Isaarn.

Does he help the poor? Not exactly, he gives them very little.

But has any other government else helped the poor? Nops, not at all.

Has any political party in Thailand any sort of program designed to help the poor? Not that i have heard of.

You definately want your son and your grandson grow up in a fair society. But so do millions of fellow Thais who are living in poverty.

Isn't it time to find a solution for all Thais, especially the ones who have not gotten anything?

[Sleepless]

Was just watching the channel 11 english news 9:15, that was a mistake.

Well, with the Bangkok Post guy they said 16 million voted for TRT, so what about the 9% ? invalid vote, it doesn't require much math to find out that even half of this is correct and assuming the votes were not for TRT, TRT didn't get 50% and lost.

What bothers me with channel 11 english news broad cast is that they were not talking about this. Would think they had more than 50% words in their minds that they couldn't speak, at least I do hope so . Everyone knew their role but overall were acting like nervous small children. I'd recommend government to start to hire actorss instead of reporters on their tv if this is their intented broadcast.

sonnyJ,

Even 30million go for "No vote", he will say another 30 million children will vote for him in the future. Why bother?

[baba]

Apart from the still be answered questions about the election itself, this Mr. Thaksin seems to be too blind to see, that with his sticky behaviour he will be responsible for the damage to the country.

With such a huge non vote share, he cannot claim, that he is the winner. He should make place for another TRT person with the objection to hold another election later this year. Mr. Thaksin, you are damaging your own country, you are damaging the image of Thailand in the world, and it is time, that you accept it.

I am not convinced that the opposition offer any better way of leading the country, but for Thaksin, the time is definately over. He should realize it finally.

[Plus]

Funny that until now, two and a half hours since Thaksin said it first on TV, there's dead silence on election results. Perhaps no one dares to post something contradictory to his 16 mil claim.

[lukamar]

What are you guys looking for in the Constitution? Like he care.

Good question, we should just let the lawyers fight it out.

[britmaveric]

Funny that until now, two and a half hours since Thaksin said it first on TV, there's dead silence on election results. Perhaps no one dares to post something contradictory to his 16 mil claim.

Maybe they took heed to the crackdown inferences?

[ColPyat]

my apologies for this, BUT what has he actually done wrong ?

I know he sold some shares in some company, but apert from that, has anything been proven ?

Why didnt anyone put up more candidates so people could vote for them, rather than abstain, that is a wasted vote (I think)

Having started a drugwar in 2003 that has killed within the first two months several thousand Thais in summary execution. Which, if i may add was not much of a problem for the most prominent PAD leaders, as they were allied with Thaksin during that time.

He has given the rural folks acces to huge loans, though has not given much assistence in proper money management, so that these folks are in huge debts. But it bought votes.

He has introduced large scale farming programs, such as the rubber sceme for the North and Isaarn, that don't really work that well for the farmers, but work extremey well by converting taxpayers money through loans into the pockets of his crony's companies.

There is a whole lot more, but i am sure that you'll get to read of that. Including flames because you are not part of the pro-PAD mutual appreciation society.

[Plus]

Let's check the morning papers. Folks at the Nation are buzy cracking numbers and coloring maps and writing editorials, let's give them a few more hours.

Looks like there will be no breaking news till morning anyway.

[Insight]

I'd really like to see some more offical results...

[tettyan]

I'm having trouble finding up-to-date information online on vote-counting. The Nation's page only includes a few provinces and the Manager's hasn't been updated since late Sunday night.

Seems as the Japanese seem to be quicker with BREAKING NEWS updates than the local English-language press. According to the Asahi Shimbun's website, 39 re-votes will be necessary (2 in the central region, 37 in the south) because the TRT candidates failed to win 1/5 of the vote. They're even reporting that in one constituency in the south, a minor party candidate defeated the TRT candidate!

For those who can read Japanese: http://www.asahi.com/international/update/0403/014.html

Note: The author of the article seem to include Prachuab Khiri Khan as a Southern province, but I understand that most consider it to be a central province.

Edited April 3, 2006 by tettyan

[otherstuff1957]

Thaksin will never resign voluntarily. He keeps on hinting that he will, but he's just using a carrot and stick technique to keep his opponents off balance.

The only way he might leave, would be if he could set up an easily manipulated puppet as the new PM and become a behind the scenes kingmaker himself.

If he does resign, you can expect to see the poser of the new PM to be considerably diminished.

It will be interesting to see how things play out over the next few weeks. I just hope that nobody starts shooting.

[Plus]

Way to go, Colpyat. Few more posts like that and you'll get "Thaksin Awk Pai" signature

People here align with PAD because they want to see the back of Thaksin. They don't care much about anything else at the moment.

And, Colpyat, are you convinced now that Sondhi will not enter politics? After refusing to vote he lost all his political activity rights.

[otherstuff1957]

One more thing: as Mark Twain once said "There are lies, there are ###### lies and then there are statistics!"

More than 50% of the vote? No problem. It just depends on how you count them.

[h90]

you seem to be new here.....

these shares are just the last case what made people angree, maybe not even the worst. The cases fill books where he did wrong. I don't want to go into details.....

And Thailand is not Europe or USA, there are a lot of cases where the evidence is so big that blind can see it but the court does not care about it.

One of the major problems seems to be, that Thaksin can not step back, because if he go away hundreds of cases go to court and if he stay in Thailand they take all his money, but as long as he stay in power noone can thouch him.....

just a short message, maybe someone with better english can explain the rest for you....

my apologies for this, BUT what has he actually done wrong ?

I know he sold some shares in some company, but apert from that, has anything been proven ?

Why didnt anyone put up more candidates so people could vote for them, rather than abstain, that is a wasted vote (I think)

Edited April 3, 2006 by h90

[lannarebirth]

Adichai>> If you really think the 30baht-scheme has helped the poor or the loans to everyone that wanted it has put the poor in any better position then they where in before, then you better wake up and do it quickly.

It's almost amazing reading this from (semi-) educated expats (and other signups) on this board.

Well those loans did give everyone access to buying cellphones. If only to stare at it at traffic lights. That's got to good for someone.

[ColPyat]

Way to go, Colpyat. Few more posts like that and you'll get "Thaksin Awk Pai" signature

People here align with PAD because they want to see the back of Thaksin. They don't care much about anything else at the moment.

And, Colpyat, are you convinced now that Sondhi will not enter politics? After refusing to vote he lost all his political activity rights.

Well, i am not gonna bore you with personal experiences, and why in paticular i despise Thaksin, but i do have some very personal reasons for that, apart from the obvious ones.

Nevertheless, i always look very carefully at whom i ally myself, and i the PAD leaders are people i stay away as far as i can. I would compare it with allying yourself with the neo fascists and Opus Dei in order to throw Berlusconi out of Italy, or with the Klu Klux Clan and the most extreme Born Again fringe in order to throw Bush out of the US.

And, it does not matter if Sondhi is entering politics in an elected position, or stays part of the murky world of Thai politics as a crony capitalist which he always did - he still is not someone i would ever consider working for the benefit of the people in whatever position he is in.

Anyhow, i do prefer pragmatic political analyses over joining causes. I personally find this is infantile, only excusable in a late teen revolutionary phase, if one is inclined to do so.