I Will Not Resign: Thaksin

[Plus]

We know who benfited from cell phone boom among villagers.

Hint: Orange didn't even have upcountry coverage then.

[Orion76]

One more thing: as Mark Twain once said "There are lies, there are ###### lies and then there are statistics!"

More than 50% of the vote? No problem. It just depends on how you count them.

Very true, there are many ways to present numbers.

A Bangkok Post breaking news article says the following:

( from: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...ws.php?id=88851 )

An unofficial count of ballots cast in Bangkok had the TRT losing to the "no votes" in 27 out of the capital's 36 constituencies. About 51 per cent of Bangkok voters ticked the "no vote" box, deemed a protest vote against Thaksin.

The strong abstention vote in the capital and in many other parts of the country was deemed a slap in the face for the ruling party, observers said.

"This is a warning from the people," said opposition Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva. "This is something strange and new, to have so many no votes."

Another way to look at this is: if the opposition had run in the election and they had 51% of the votes to divide among the three major opposition parties TRT would have had a landslide victory even in Bangkok.

In most multi party democracies any one single party winning 40%+ of the votes is considered a pretty big win.

[harmonist]

Come on, grow up. He commands a much greater majority than any other leader I can think of, and whether you like it or not, the majority are for him.

He is liked because he is the first one to provide real benefits for the poor in the rural areas. The main reason why he is hated by the Bangkok lot.

??? Who are you? And how can you say such thing? You are either rather st...d or you have slept in school, when there were lessons about politics and economy.

Where are the "real benefits" for the poor ? I can't see any, not at all. On contrary, PM Taksion has even cancelled all retirement funds for all gov. employees, regardless their time already served.

So to say, they won't see any money when they stop working.

That hits especially the schools (the educational system) very hard ...

And you are talking about benefits? You must be kidding.

[Plus]

Nevertheless, i always look very carefully at whom i ally myself,

Well, everyone does the same, then makes a decision, and you are in the minority now - thousands upon thousands of people aligned themselves with Sondhi's "Return the power to the King" movement and formed PAD.

If they hadn't been able to join forces they wouldn't be able to pressure Thaksin into anything - snap elections, national government - nothing.

So, thanks god PAD exist.

>>>>>

Judging by results, they should be called "slap elections" for Thaksin.

[ColPyat]

Where are the "real benefits" for the poor ? I can't see any, not at all.

The 30 Baht sceme was the first national health systhem done in Thailand. Before, if you were poor and very sick, you went to the whitch doctor or died.

Today, even AIDS patients get anti-retroviral therapy for free.

The systhem may be underfunded, etc. - but fact is: it is there.

[bulmercke]

CNN have just reported on yesterday's election and Thaksin's television appearance earlier this evening and his proposals.

No more than ten-fifteen seconds of coverage.

On the other hand, the BBC gave today's events about two-three minutes of coverage.

Why the disparity?

The American government and it's compliant mouthpiece CNN are pro-Thaksin and pro-Singapore.

They simply don't want to emphasize, globally, public dissatisfaction of one of their allies.

Simple.

[Plus]

Abhisit knows very well that 51% against Thaksin is far from automatic 51% for Democrats.

[britmaveric]

CNN certainly isn't a friend of the yank govt. It's not simply big news.

[Orion76]

The American government and it's compliant mouthpiece CNN are pro-Thaksin and pro-Singapore.

They simply don't want to emphasize, globally, public dissatisfaction of one of their allies.

Either that... or it is just not very big news outside of Thailand...

[Plus]

The 30 Baht sceme was the first national health systhem done in Thailand.

And it was fifteen years in the making. Thaksin just rebranded it, cleared of common economic sense, and claimed for himself.

That is - National Healthcare would have come in some form regardless of who was in power.

[Plus]

What do they care about Thailand over in the US?

- As long as Chinese are not shooting missiles over the straits, there's nothing interesting there at all.

[Orion76]

Abhisit knows very well that 51% against Thaksin is far from automatic 51% for Democrats.

What would 51% have worked out as?

25% Democrats, 16% chart Thai, 10% Mahachon?

[lukamar]

Nevertheless, i always look very carefully at whom i ally myself,

Well, everyone does the same, then makes a decision, and you are in the minority now - thousands upon thousands of people aligned themselves with Sondhi's "Return the power to the King" movement and formed PAD.

Apparently not the privy councilors, who just yesterday told them to stop trying to drag the Monarchy into politics.

If they hadn't been able to join forces they wouldn't be able to pressure Thaksin into anything - snap elections, national government - nothing.

Who has the keys to the car now? It's not PAD or the Democrats, it's the TRT again, like it or not..

[sonnyJ]

sorry, the engligh news was ofcourse 22:15.

Also, it seem sthat Thaksins 52 % includes the disrecarde votes also. So he can declare sheer winner. Or am I right?

I'd sure like to know some real statistics of this.

The only way for Thaksin to serve his country at this point is to resign or at least take along holiday. What about his money from singapore deal, what are the facts he would loose them?

[bulmercke]

The American government and it's compliant mouthpiece CNN are pro-Thaksin and pro-Singapore.

They simply don't want to emphasize, globally, public dissatisfaction of one of their allies.

Either that... or it is just not very big news outside of Thailand...

Orion76 - you could be right - but I subscribe to UBC here in BKK and up until today I haven't seen one single news report on CNN about the political situation here. Maybe I missed some reports.

Did any other posters here notice reports on CNN before today?

Having said that - I checked out their website last week and there were, indeed, a few stories about the current political crisis tucked away there.

"tucked away" being the operative word!

[ColPyat]

Nevertheless, i always look very carefully at whom i ally myself,

Well, everyone does the same, then makes a decision, and you are in the minority now - thousands upon thousands of people aligned themselves with Sondhi's "Return the power to the King" movement and formed PAD.

If they hadn't been able to join forces they wouldn't be able to pressure Thaksin into anything - snap elections, national government - nothing.

So, thanks god PAD exist.

>>>>>

Judging by results, they should be called "slap elections" for Thaksin.

Well, thousand may have allied themselves with Sondhi's "Return the power to the King" movement, only the palace hasn't, according to General Sarayud's statement. That should give those thousand's somethink to think. But appearantly it doesn't.

And being in the minority doesn't phase me much. At least i still use my brain and not my mouth to think.

So far, i would not exactly call the election a "slap-election".

Last year's election was won so hugely by Thaksin mainly because the Tsunami, national hype, and the undeserved applause he got for the help he didn't give, but claimed to have given. If you look at pre Tsunami polls, he was not so popular then.

So far, by any means, this election still makes him the biggest single political party in Thailand. Millions may have used the "no" option (so did my wife, so would i have done if i would have the right to vote), but millions have voted for him.

Which makes a very difficult situation that is better solved by negotiations than by demonstrations in order not to further the escalation.

But for you PAD supporters the only thing that counts is not the millions that voted for Thaksin, but the millions that used the "no" option.

For me - both count equaly.

[ColPyat]

The 30 Baht sceme was the first national health systhem done in Thailand.

And it was fifteen years in the making. Thaksin just rebranded it, cleared of common economic sense, and claimed for himself.

That is - National Healthcare would have come in some form regardless of who was in power.

Well, 15 years in the making. By NGO's, not by politicians, not by civil servants.

That means that the Chatchai government could have introduced it. Did he? Nops.

Or Anand? Nops.

Or Chuan 1? Nops.

Or Banharn? Nops.

Or Chavalit? Nops.

Or Chuan 2? Nops.

Sorry, missed your chance to score brownie points with the poor.

Edited April 3, 2006 by ColPyat

[Plus]

What would 51% have worked out as?

25% Democrats, 16% chart Thai, 10% Mahachon?

Possibly, but 20% Dem, 10% Chat Thai, 5% Mahachon, and 16% "No vote" is more likely.

By participating in these whitewash elections they would have completely discredited themselves in the anti-Thaksin movement's eyes.

[mbkudu]

Anyways let's see where this soap opera leads to next.

A much weaker THB hopefully

Come on, grow up. He commands a much greater majority than any other leader I can think of, and whether you like it or not, the majority are for him.

He is liked because he is the first one to provide real benefits for the poor in the rural areas. The main reason why he is hated by the Bangkok lot.

I agree Adichai, and have from the beginnining. I still haven't seen anyone here state what law he has broken concerning the Shin Corp sell off. This is what this is all about, isn't it? He really is one of the only few who has shown true concern for the rural people of Thailand and actually acted on things instead of just jabbering about doing things. If you want a really 'good' prime minister then re-instate Chavi Yungchaiyud or maybe Banharn Slipperyeelacha. It all just seams like sour grapes all around to me. The Bangkok elite are pissed because their Shin Corp shares aren't worth as much

and foreigners are pissed because the night life isn't what it used to be. Waaaaaaahh.

[Orion76]

What would 51% have worked out as?

25% Democrats, 16% chart Thai, 10% Mahachon?

Possibly, but 20% Dem, 10% Chat Thai, 5% Mahachon, and 16% "No vote" is more likely.

By participating in these whitewash elections they would have completely discredited themselves in the anti-Thaksin movement's eyes.

They are smarter for abstaining than I originally gave them credit for. They would have been beaten pretty badly even in Bangkok. Now they can say that everyone who voted NO voted for Thaksin to resign.

[Plus]

TDRI was one of the parties commissioned to propose National Healthcare plan, it's not an NGO.

Interestingly, the government up until now still hires TDRI to assess their 30 baht scheme performance.

You forget why PAD wants to oust Thaksin - corruption. They don't recognise the elections no matter how many No votes are there. If it was/is less than 50% they will simply continue their campaign.

Issues they raise can't be answered in the elections. 30 baht or Village fund benefits have no bearing on corruption charges.

Snap elections were called not to answer, but to avoid.

Right up to Thaksin's TV appearance numbers were not on his side, and still he suffered big setbacks in Bangkok.

Slap elections.

[bulmercke]

CNN certainly isn't a friend of the yank govt. It's not simply big news.

britmaveric - yes, you have a point, but not sure I totally agree with you.

I've noticed that some of their reporting about Chavez in Venezluela and Iraq has of late been less than complimentary to the US administration. Very critical, indeed!

However, CNN esteemably went up in my reputation last week when they had the courage and temerity to cover Charlie Sheen's controversial views about the 9/11 cover-up on CNN's ShowBiz tonight.

Views which I'm totally in agreement with.

[Plus]

I still haven't seen anyone here state what law he has broken concerning the Shin Corp sell off. This is what this is all about, isn't it?

That's not all at all. Check "Ai na liam" translation in the "song" thread - there's a long list of transgressions on his part.

Regarind Shin sale, the most obvious law is Article 209 of Constitution forbidding politicians from managing/holding shares in any company, even through nominees.

[ColPyat]

You forget why PAD wants to oust Thaksin - corruption.

As if corruption would be unheard of in Thailand...

And by trying to oust Thaksin they risk social peace and fractionalising of the society. But, sorry, i forgot, they don't need to think about those consequences because that is not their job, their job being to oust Thaksin because they won't run for office.

And after me the flood, let others deal with the consequences of my actions.

God, it must be very comfortable to be so self righteous...

[george]

Please keep on topic!

/Admin

[thebear]

From the BKK Post breaking News Quote "Thaksin, who has been the target of mass demonstrations in Bangkok calling for his resignation in the pre-election period, claimed to have secured 16 million votes at Sunday's polls, 3 million less than the 19 million his TRT party won in last year's election but more than half of the estimated 30 million ballots cast.

"It's like getting a B (grade) instead of an A," said Thaksin."Unquote

Games, Set and Match Thaksin...

Quote "Under the constitution, a single candidate must win at least 20 per cent of the eligible votes in his or her constituency to win. With many no votes there will be a need for re-elections to be held in 38 constituencies.

Until the seats are filled Thailand's parliament cannot open." Unquote

Thanks PAD for the help creating further delay before the country can get back to normal business again...

It's all about putting money/benefits in peoples pockets - particularly those who haven't got it. To the rich/well off in Bangkok? Well Thaksins continuation might be a minor irritation but at least the wheels of the economy will continue to turn - remember where those zillions you have come from - the grass roots society who you employ so cheaply!

[Plus]

They are smarter for abstaining than I originally gave them credit for.

They decided to boycot only after consultations with PAD, who told them in no certain terms what they think about their participation.

Remember? They came with proposals to Thaksin who snubbed them. Then they announced the boycot, then Thaksin run back with his counter proposals, then they hesitated, then they talked to PAD, then they took a gamble and it worked.

[britmaveric]

they took a gamble and it worked.

Not exactly... Didnt count on elections, and the PAD certainly thought Thaskin would resign, I'd have to say things didnt go as planned.

Edited April 3, 2006 by britmaveric

[ColPyat]

Remember? They came with proposals to Thaksin who snubbed them. Then they announced the boycot, then Thaksin run back with his counter proposals, then they hesitated, then they talked to PAD, then they took a gamble and it worked.

That is how negotiations generally work, in politics and business: proposals, counter-proposals, and somehow you get together with a for all sides acceptable compromise.

And how did the "gamble" work?

I see that the country still does not function. That means it did not work. Well, unless you are intent to bring the country to a standstill in order to force your opinion through no matter what, and especially no compromise.

Thaksin is still PM, by the way.

Edited April 3, 2006 by ColPyat

[Plus]

Thanks PAD for the help creating further delay before the country can get back to normal business again...

How can you say this - it wasn't the PAD who called the elections.

If Thaksin peacefully resigned or stepped aside to clear his name, nothing would have happened. TRT had 374 MPs and solid policies that needed constant government and parliament's attention. They would have simply selected another PM and we would have the Cabinet working full steam right now.

Whose stupid idea was it to dissolve a strong Parliament?

Staying on topic - people ask all sorts of background questions, should they be addressed?

PAD bashing/defending seems to be more off topic here.